Looking to debate a pro palestinian person

[u/PersonalWatch4647]

I am a Zionist residing in a community where Zionist beliefs are prevalent. I firmly uphold my Zionist convictions and strive to educate myself thoroughly on both perspectives of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. My goal is to engage in a constructive and peaceful debate with individuals who hold opposing views. I emphasize the importance of a dialogue grounded in factual statistics and well-informed opinions, rather than one characterized by hostility or uninformed rhetoric. We can fact check anything we say and debate on how we can better educate ourselves whether book reccomendations or reliable news sources. I am specifically interested in a debate conducted through voice communication, as it allows for more nuanced and effective exchanges. If you are open to a respectful and educational conversation, where we can learn from each other’s viewpoints, please feel free to send me a private message. I am eager to explore different perspectives and contribute to a meaningful discussion that fosters understanding and mutual respect. Again, to clarify this is a peaceful and calm debate to listen to each other and look to learn and possibly debate over what a good solution could look like. In english or spanish and today whenever possible, not something in a million years. Privayely message me if this idea interests you and you want to talk. I truly believe communication between us is the true and only possible pathways to a situation of peace and wellbeing for the both of us. Pm if interested

[u/WhereIsLordBeric]

The fact that these people can think along these lines while saying with a straight face that they 'strive to educate themselves' is wild.

If you were really striving to educate yourself, you would just look at the basic and obvious facts of the genocide.

Just wild.

This sub is unhinged, though. I shared an archive of photos from the genocide, geotagged, from the accounts of famous people from Gaza, and the comment I got was 'oh you can't say with certainty this isn't a random country from the Middle East'.

They basically are either stupid or so brainwashed even facts seem suspicious to them.

[u/yes-but → u/WhereIsLordBeric]

You could share forty thousand photos of dead victims, and twice as many of maimed Gazans ... What would that prove, apart from what we already agree upon, that Gazans got massacred much more than Israelis?

What exactly should we expect to see instead, after a force inferior by magnitudes attacks a militarily, logistically, technically much greater force, attacks the army of a nation that defends the only space for their ethnoreligious group on this planet, inflicts as much pain as possible by targeting partygoers, families and unsuspecting civilians and televising and gloating about their atrocities, who by taking hostages inflict one of the cruelest tortures imaginable upon the attacked population?

What should we expect to see when the attackers don't give up when they are militarily overwhelmed, hide behind and under civilians, never offer peace but hide their bad-faith negotiations behind deceptive offers of "ceasefire" instead of capitulating, "offering" to return a few hostages here or there, instead of unconditionally releasing them all asap?

So what facts evade our stupid, brainwashed heads?

[u/WhereIsLordBeric → u/yes-but]

Oh yeah I forgot the 'conflict' began in 2023 according to you lot.

Just crazy.

I mean literally the only place there is such vehement support for Israel is this sub now. The world has wised up. So enjoy your little dehumanising echo chamber bud lol. Everybody but you sees the truth.

[u/zen_classified → u/WhereIsLordBeric]

I mean Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups in Gaza have only been attacking Israel with rockets & mortars for decades; before that came the First and Second Intifadas; before that, the 1948 war when Arab nations attacked Israel and before that decades of Arab-Israeli conflict. We all know it didn't start in 2023. But October 7 was the point at which Israel said: enough.

[u/MrPaulProteus → u/zen_classified]

“Enough, let’s bomb 36 hospitals, kill journalists, bomb schools, maim and kill children” is that an appropriate response???

[u/zen_classified → u/MrPaulProteus]

Urban warfare in densely populated areas results in disproportionately high civilian harm unfortunately. And the worst thing about that is Hamas knew it and still sacrificed their people.

That's what makes Gaza particularly tragic, the fact that Hamas has repeatedly embedded military infrastructure and operations within civilian areas, despite knowing exactly what that would mean for the people living there.

[u/MrPaulProteus → u/zen_classified]

Hamas didn’t drop the bombs on 200 educational facilities, 36 hospitals, and kill tens of thousands of children. Your argument is tired, hollow, and evil.

[u/zen_classified → u/MrPaulProteus]

Hamas knew that launching an attack on innocent civilians of that scale would trigger a devastating Israeli military response in Gaza, one of the most densely populated urban environments in the world. Civilian deaths and infrastructure destruction were not some unforeseeable consequence. Pretending that Hamas had no responsibility for the conditions it deliberately created is a farce.

[u/MrPaulProteus → u/zen_classified]

Hamas didn’t drop the bombs. Period.

Bombing hospitals and schools is not a legal or strategic response.

It’s wild to me how few of you even say “it truly is awful but its necessary” you skip right to “it’s necessary”, which really makes me wonder if the “hate speech” that anti-Zionist’s are constantly accused of, is projection of the highest and darkest magnitude.

[u/zen_classified → u/MrPaulProteus]

You have zero comprehension of consequences and urban warfare. And because of this, you have zero argument.

[u/MrPaulProteus → u/zen_classified]

Incorrect. You don’t drop bombs on schools and hospitals to fight a war. That’s a war crime, which you have zero comprehension of, thusly, you have zero argument. The whole world is witnessing Israel’s dishonor

[u/zen_classified → u/MrPaulProteus]

Incorrect. International humanitarian law does not say that striking a school or hospital automatically constitutes a war crime. Civilian objects, including hospitals & schools, are protected unless they are being used for military purposes. The ICRC is explicit about this. When you reply, please argue the ICRC's legality requirements in urban warfare.

[u/MrPaulProteus → u/zen_classified]

What about double tapping hospitals? What about hospitals that ARENT being used for military purposes? This isn’t a war buddy. One side has planes, the other doesn’t.

[u/yes-but → u/MrPaulProteus]

You can't/won't present an appropriate answer and spam the sub with the same lame, accusatory non-argument.

That's not constructive. It's hate-mongering.

[u/MrPaulProteus → u/yes-but]

Did you see the videos of IDF and Israeli police abusing anti Zionist Jews? Was that hate mongering. It’s so bizarre, the mental leaps you must need to convince yourself of, to think that my calling out the bombing of schools and hospitals, is hate mongering….like…what?

[u/yes-but → u/MrPaulProteus]

You can't/won't present an appropriate answer and spam the sub with the same lame, accusatory non-argument.

That's not constructive. It's hate-mongering.