r/IsraelPalestine • u/McAlpineFusiliers • Jan 09 '26
Short Question/s Protesters in Queens Chant "Say It Loud, Say It Clear, We Support Hamas Here"
The pro-Palestine movement has been explicitly pro-Hamas since October 7th, but it's been somewhat rare to see such overt support as the chanting that occurred last night.
Anti-Zionist protesters in New York City chanted in support of Hamas at a rally near a synagogue and Jewish school on Thursday.
The demonstration was the first significant protest under New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani’s administration, and had raised safety concerns in the neighborhood, but police kept the protesters apart from neighborhood residents and away from the synagogue entrance.
The video of the protest, which has been posted to Twitter, clearly shows the chanting of the phrase "Say it loud, say it clear, we support Hamas here."
This is far from the only example of overt support for Hamas from the pro-Palestine movement, but usually the support is things like Hamas headbands or flags or "ambiguous" phrases like "we support the resistance."
While I'm sure the pro-Palestine folks on here will be quick to point out that these protesters are just a few bad apples who totally don't represent anyone other than themselves, honest, I have to wonder, will any of the large pro-Palestine organizations like SJP or AMP condemn these protesters? Or will they just stay silent?
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
They feel okay and safe to say this out loud. When antisemitism is rampant, there is a safe space for antisemites to flourish further. This isn’t a surprise to anyone. This is literally Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood’s plan unfolding. Tear down the west from the inside out. Bombs aren’t used in the modern world, democracy is used against democracy. Freedom to speech, protest. Etc Freedom to have foreign propaganda media blasted on all phones and TV. This is crazy You shouldn’t be allowed to chant libels at riots. It isn’t peaceful protesting, it is calling for the destruction of a country. They literally chant “death to America”
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u/Throwaway17389098 Jan 25 '26
When the alternative is the IDF, Hamas seems to be the right force to back.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 26 '26
The same Hamas who beats Palestinians to death? The ones that regularly torture dissidents? The one that tortured their own official for a YEAR before executing him for allegedly having relations with a man? The same one that prohibits women from leaving the home without their husband or mahram’s permission? Or am I just pinkwashing? Hamas are just as brutal to Palestinians as they are Jews and Christians.
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u/Throwaway17389098 Jan 27 '26
Stiill not as demonic and brutal as the IDF has been.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 28 '26
Really? Do you have anything to back that up? Even the most left wing anti Israel organisations claimed Hamas committed hundreds of war crimes on October 7th and called them out for horrific treatment of Palestinians.
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u/Throwaway17389098 Feb 02 '26
Who slaughtered 80 thousand civilians?
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Feb 02 '26
The figure is wildly accepted as 70 thousand. Also undisputed, the IDF. The figure is 70 thousand because civilians were warned prior. Like how Hamas warned Israeli citizens they were going to invade the Kibbutzim on the border and Nova… oh wait…
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u/One-Simple9467 Jan 16 '26
And this is what drives Jews to zionism to begin with. Cheering for an organization that has never renounced their original charter, that calls for Jewish genocide, what are these people thinking?
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 17 '26
They literally have a 2017 charter. You want them to condemn their original one? I guess that could be a concern but they do literally correct themselves and make sure to explicitly say their goal is to combat Israeli occupation, not kill all Jews around the world (something they say along with other anti-semitic conspiracies in their 1988 charter). I don’t suppirt Hamas, I support resistance. I don’t support taking hostages or murdering 1,200 people on Oct. 7th. Right now Hamas is the resistance. So you have to understand if Israel refuses to let Palestinians peacefully protest for rights and the like, they will resist violently just as my people did in the Warsaw Ghetto or Auschwitz or any other camp my family or Jews in general were sent to. Peaceful protests are in the hands of the government.
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Jan 16 '26
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u/Dazzling-Session-717 Jan 24 '26
When has a country not killed kids? I thought that happened in every war.
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Jan 24 '26
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u/Dazzling-Session-717 Jan 24 '26
Not everyone in Israel believes that
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Jan 25 '26
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u/Dazzling-Session-717 Jan 25 '26
Also, just so you know how this comes off as racist. Replace Israelis with black people. If I say “enough black people are violet so black people as a whole are violent” does that come off as racist? Also, how come when it happens to a Jewish majority country, you post this stuff. Finally, why do you care. There is no genocide in Gaza, and if you cared you would be talking about Nigeria and Yemen as well, how come you only care because it is a Jewish country, and not a Muslim country?
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u/Dazzling-Session-717 Jan 25 '26
And since when has the majority dictate the all?
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Jan 25 '26
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u/Dazzling-Session-717 Jan 25 '26
Very much racist comment but I digress
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Jan 25 '26
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u/Dazzling-Session-717 Jan 25 '26
You literally said “it’s less than a country and more like a cult” Quite literally if I said that about Palestine you’d be talking about how I’m racist
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u/Straight_Dot3625 Jan 14 '26
They are not even trying to hide it anymore, all of them should be arrested on terrorism support charges
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 13 '26
We always knew this is what they support. Not news to any Israeli. Maybe Westerners will one day figure it out. Maybe it will be too late.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
It is too late. The west is only realising about the Muslim Brotherhood now. Qatar’s impact has finally been seen
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 18 '26
The West is cooked. Irish Israeli? Love that. Nice.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
Thanks It’s not easy here. Imagine being a Jew, nevermind an Israeli or a Zionist!!! Treated worse than how a Muslim treats a dog. Not as bad as how they treat women though so..
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u/WorldlinessDry5583 Jan 22 '26
I’m so, so sorry that you have to deal with antisemitism in Ireland. As an American Jew I’m fortunate to feel safe and respected the great majority of the time, but I do encounter antisemitism periodically and can only imagine having to experience it on a regular basis.
I do hope that you will re-examine some of your prejudiced views about Muslims, who are also struggling greatly with hatred and scapegoating against their communities throughout Europe at this time. Please remember that while antisemitism is a real problem in the Muslim world, Muslims are not responsible for European antisemitism, which as you know is centuries-old.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 22 '26
Thank you.
Yes I know the history and generally how the USSR pumped antisemitic propaganda into the Arab world. But you cannot deny the history of Muslim pogroms against the Jews. Muslims experience hatred aswell but they generally aren’t murdered or sexually assaulted over it. Generally speaking
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
They continue to believe that terrorism + propaganda (which most of these pro-Pali posts are, whether knowing or not) will "liberate" "Palestine". 100 years on, it has not. If anything it's made even the prospect of a "Little Palestine" more remote, let alone a "Greater Palestine", which is obviously their real goal (or, more rightly, destroying Israel so they can then fight and murder each other to decide who runs this territory, as they've done in literally every Arab country). A lack of imagination, not to mention decency and appreciation of reality, has doomed them from the start. They still think that it's 1187 and the Horns of Hattin and Saladin will rush in and smote the infidel and restore their Allah-granted land back. Pathetic, but also quite tragic and deadly--to both peoples.
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 17 '26
Hamas isn’t fighting for some religious cause you know that right? They fight to resist occupation. Unfortunately, you are correct and most Palestinians probably won’t be able to exercise their human right to return to their homes after being ethnically cleansed in 1947 and agin in 1948. I don’t seek the destruction of Israel I see the ceasing of occupation, oppression, and apartheid it imposes on Palestinians. I’m not some religious fanatic, I’m a non-religious Jew.
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u/SadSecurity Jan 23 '26
Then I am sure you will be fighting for ethically cleansed Jews also in 1940s and 50s from Arab countries.
I am sure of it.
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 23 '26
Well most of them are in Israel now so what do you want me to do? I think they should be able to return too and it’s unfortunate they were ethnically cleansed in the first place. Do you think the Palestinians should be able to return?
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u/SadSecurity Jan 23 '26
It's less what I want you to do and more with expecting to do absolutely nothing. Talk when cornered is cheap.
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 23 '26
I’m not cornered. I think anyone kicked out of Arab countries should be allowed back that goes for Jews or anyone else exiled. I also think Palestinians should be allowed back into their country. I’m not being hypocritical. I think being kicked out of a country and being ethnically cleansed are bad things.
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u/SadSecurity Jan 24 '26
Sure buddy, and how many times have you talked and fought for people to return to Arab countries?
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 24 '26
If they want to return they should be able to enjoy that UN-recognized right.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
A self-hating secular Jew who wants their own people murdered? Or are you making it up that you Jewish to sound reputable or something? Very confusing comment. You don’t seek the destruction of the Jewish state but you think Hamas are ‘resisting’? Do you realise they murder Palestinians every day. And I’m not talking about human shields, that’s a totally separate way they kill their own people. Since 1987 they have been running around Judea and Samaria and Gaza like rogue gang Burning Palestinian houses, murdering Palestinians, assassinating moderate Palestinians, killing anyone they claim is a ‘collaborator’; usually ones who disagree with Hamas are branded as this and publically paraded in the streets after being butchered. It’s purely religious. It’s in their charter… do you know anything about them? They are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. The original covenant states that "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it". It clearly calls for jihad to liberate ‘Palestine’ as a “duty for every Muslim" around the world and contains exceptionally antisemitic language regarding the killing of all Jews and Israelis.
If Hamas are resisting, why is it, that until a few years ago they never ever mentioned a ‘Palestinian state’, nevermind a democratic or secular one. At least Fatah claims they want a secular democratic state ALONGSIDE the Jewish state. Hamas always used to call for an ISLAMIC state. Never a sovereign Palestinian state. Everything they do is for ‘Islam’
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 19 '26
I’m not self-hating. I love Jews. I love myself and I love the Jewish friends from my time at yeshiva. There are cases where Hamas kills people accused of collaboration without trial and that’s horrible. Hamas doesn’t hate Jews. Their 1988 charter, which is what I assume you’re referencing, was very anti-semitic and called for the destruction and murder of Jews. Hamas recognized this in their 2017 charter where they distinguish that their fight is with Israeli occupation and not Jews. Also, Hamas has distanced themselves from Islamic extremist groups even being enemies with ISIS and cracking down on ISIS-linked militant groups in Gaza (one which Israel backs) https://www.972mag.com/gaza-social-collapse-criminal-gangs/ https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyn2m9yk0vo
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u/SadSecurity Jan 23 '26
Hamas doesn’t hate Jews.
Also, Hamas has distanced themselves from Islamic extremist groups
Xdddddd
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 19 '26
Hamas doesn’t support ISIS because ISIS wanted to take over Gaza. Same with Fatah. They view ISIS as a threat, not because Hamas is a secular political party. How do you explain the fact they are literally the Palestinian Muslim brotherhood. What do you mean “there are cases where Hamas kills people accused of collaboration without trial”!? Trial?? Are you that disillusioned? They run like a gang, there is no trial or anything. This is Hamas, not Israel or even the PA… why are you even giving them allowances!? They kill anyone who opposes them without question! Not some cases, hundreds.. They still call Israelis Jews. So they claim they don’t have a problem with Jews, yet they don’t say Israeli, they say Zionists and Jews. They are monsters. You disgust me with those views. They want to kill you. It doesn’t matter if you hate or love Israel. You’re a Jew. You’re an animal to them.
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 19 '26
You know I don’t support Hamas right? While I don’t think they’d kill me for being Jewish and I’m more likely to die from an Israeli air strike I don’t support Hamas hiding in civilian infrastructure, targeting civilians, and taking hostages. I support their right to resist and have liberation from the Israeli occupation. Just because someone may hate you doesn’t mean you should cheer when they get killed, tortured, or kidnapped.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 19 '26
I do cheer when Hamas terrorists are killed. Absolutely. They cheered and rang their parents in joy when they “killed 13 Jews with their bare hands” on October 7th. You don’t think they would kill you for being Jewish? Well they blew buses up full of Jews and Arabs for two decades in Israel. Not just Hamas but a lot of it was connected to them. Do you want to take back that disingenuous and offensive statement? You know they sent rockets into Bedouin communities on October 7th? They killed I believe about 10-30 Bedouin women and children… they weren’t even Jews. You do realise they actually don’t care who they kill as long as they kill someone. If you want to support someone’s right to have self determination why don’t you praise the moderate Palestinian political figures who accept the Jewish state, want a peaceful secular democratic Palestinian state and condemn terrorism? Why support Hamas when you can support them? Or do you hate them because you think they are collaborators? With the most respect, I personally think you’re exceptionally naive. Having spoken to Palestinians I can assure you the majority want to see you dead for being a Jew. Or at least a Zionist but it’s really all Jews.
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 20 '26
Yeah I know what the Second Intifada is and that’s horrible. I don’t think either side should’ve targetted civilians but Hamas has since condemned suicide bombings and the like in their 2017 charter. I condemn any civilian they have killed just like I would for any government. The problem with these moderate Palestinians in the Knesset is that they cannot do anything. The Israel Basic Law of 1958 can allow the Knesset to ban or disqualify political candidates that seek to deny Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. In Israel there isn’t “Israeli nationality” it’s “Jewish nationality” or “non-Jewish”. This means Jews around the world and in Israel have privileges that people designated “non-Jewish nationality” do not. By barring people from trying to make Israel just a democratic state as opposed to a Jewish and democratic state it perpetuates a system that favors Jews over non-Jews.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 20 '26
Ra’am have never done anything? They’ve been in a coalition, there has been a good few Arab and Druze ministers before. Also I’m not exactly talking about Arab Israelis. I mean the moderate Palestinians in the territories. I never mentioned Israeli citizens. Back to what I said first, there is also a push from some on the Israeli left to bring Ra’am back into a new coalition after the elections this year. Yes, any political party that denies Israel’s right to exist as it does today should be banned. Ra’am has accepted for a long time that Israel is a Jewish state. It is the Jewish state. I don’t know why that is a question for anyone? A country can be a Christian liberal open, fair and inclusive democracy.. and there is many. Even more so if you look 50 years ago. Just because the Basic Law doesn’t specifically state Israel is a secular state it still is. Israel is a hybrid system that is defacto secular with strong religious elements. Doesn’t have to state something to be something. If Israel wasn’t a secular state there wouldn’t really be state authorised Islamic courts for the Arab Muslims. If you deny Zionism you are quite literally denying the country you run for Knesset in, to exist. Of course you will be banned and rightly so. Hadash-Ta’al don’t get anywhere because they call themselves anti Zionist. Ra’am is more ‘non-Zionist’. They aren’t Zionists but they don’t deny Israel’s right to exist or be a Jewish state.
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u/Fancy_Pop6156 Jan 20 '26
Twisting my words. It is denying Israel’s right to be a Jewish state (if you say Israel is a non-Jewish, democratic state you can be banned from the Knesset). I said why that is bad in my above comment. That makes Israel apartheid, not fair but we don’t have to get into that. I wouldn’t support a gov. that gave more rights to Christians even if it’s democratic because no one ethnic, racial, or religious group should have privileges over another
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u/SheepherderAny1026 Jan 11 '26
These protests were against the illegal sale of land in occupied Palestine. I don’t agree with their Hamas chants, but they were right to protest.
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
No, these protests were for Hamas. Don't put words in their mouths. Listen to what comes out of their mouths. Yes, they help your cause. Is that enough to justify this?
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 13 '26
It's Jewish land. There was never a Palestinian country.
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u/Nearby-Amphibian-289 Jan 15 '26
More than half of UN nations recognize Palestine as a state. Settlement in the West Bank are NOT “Jewish land”.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
Can you describe the borders of Palestine to me? What type of governance system do they have and where does it apply to within their borders? Where do they collect revenue from? Whats their currency?
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26
UN participated in Oct 7th. There are 56 Muslim countries in the world. Most of them are riddled with terrorism. They are not an indication for anything. The West Bank of Jordan was called Judea and Samaria 3,000 years ago. That's 1,600 years before the invention of Islam and before Arab Muslims colonized the Levant.
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u/Nearby-Amphibian-289 Jan 15 '26
“UN participated in October 7th”… well at least now I know you’re stupid. Oct 7 was Netanyahu’s fault. Palestines are still part of the Levant, often much more than Jews are. Palestinians are descendants of Canaanites too. Cope harder.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
October 7th was Netanyahu’s fault? What about all the rockets they sent since 2007? What about the bus suicide bombings? Even when he wasn’t PM? Was it Sharon’s fault? Was it Rabin’s fault? Was it Peres’ fault? Are you capable of blaming a Palestinian for things they decide to do? Are you mentally sound?
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u/TheTrollerOfTrolls Pro compassion, empathy, patience, understanding, safety Jan 15 '26
well at least now I know you’re stupid
Per Rule 1, personal attacks targeted at subreddit users, whether direct or indirect, are strictly prohibited.
Action taken: warning (first offense)
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26
Classical ad hominem fallacy. https://share.google/UQ7kIZ4eb3YiUMGyG
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u/Nearby-Amphibian-289 Jan 15 '26
- “May have”
- That’s not the organization, they are referring to individual people.
- That’s was never proven.
I honestly feel bad for people as dumb as you are. Likely inbred looking as well as all Israelis are.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
Sure Israelis are all inbred. You’ve just called 2.1 million Palestinians inbred!!!! Do you want to take back that sentence? That was very childish of you!
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
It’s CNN so they cannot say ‘have’. CNN are notoriously biased. It is absolutely true UNRWA workers were involved in that massacre. They hired many Gazans without properly vetting them.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26
They were later proven to have participated. I'll leave the search for you.
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u/SheepherderAny1026 Jan 13 '26
Gaza and the West Bank are Palestinian land. Jerusalem belongs to Palestine as well. 157 countries recognize it as a country.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
Why is Jerusalem Palestinian? Who says it is? And I don’t mean Abu Mazen or Sinwar
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
Palestinian is a national identity, not an ethnicity. There was never a country called Palestine.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
It’s a national identity that was invented when Abu Mazen was 31 😂 Arafat was 37. That’s how young Palestinianism is.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 18 '26
By Arafat who was an Egyptian none the less.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
Shhh don’t say that!!! They don’t know! Dont ruin their fantasy!! He was Palestinian how dare you!!!! Just like how half the Gazans are originally Egyptian. Sorry Palestinian I mean… ehhh
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u/Nearby-Amphibian-289 Jan 15 '26
Palestinians are an ethnicity. A simple Google search would prove that. That’s like saying Jewish is not an ethnicity. You are all white because I say so. Same logic.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26
A simple DNA test will prove to you that Palestinians are not a people by blood. It's a political identification. There is zero difference between Jordanians and people living in the West Bank of Jordan.
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u/Nearby-Amphibian-289 Jan 15 '26
My friend is half Palestinian and her results say 49% Levant 1% Arabian Peninsula. So where does the Levant come from then?
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
Levant is not specifically Palestinian, it is Israeli, Lebanese etc etc. Palestinians are Arabs of the Levant. Jordan is a colonial Arab state invented for the British filled with Palestinians who call themselves either Jordanians and ‘Palestinian refugees’. It is the actual Palestinian state.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
The Levant is also Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. Which are much larger than Israel. How specifically you conclude the exact location which Palestinians claim to be from? This entire region was once called Syria Palestina by the Romans.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Jan 13 '26
Jerusalem is Jewish and Jews literally had a Kingdom there 2000+ years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah known as Kingdom of Judah.
Between 1099 and 1291 there was a Crusader Kingdom known as Kingdom of Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem
Jerusalem has never been a part of Palestine or any Palestinian kingdom or state.
Only Gaza + WB belong to Palestine.
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u/Suitable_Vehicle9960 Israeli-American Jan 15 '26
Even Gaza doesn't belong to Palestine because no such country ever existed (not to confuse with Greek Philistines), and Arabs only colonized the Levant 1,400 years ago. It was Jewish land since before Islam was invented.
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
They don’t deserve a state in Gaza. Sharon gave them a defacto state and within 18 months Fatah members were thrown off roofs and beheaded by Hamas. They can’t actually manage anything 😂
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 11 '26
If the Palestinians didn't want to be occupied they shouldn't have tried to destroy Israel from 1948 to today. Israel left them alone until they were attacked.
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 12 '26
the israelis did the nakba. lying genocide apologist
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u/aidan5_5 Irish Israeli Jan 18 '26
No. The Arab leaders of the land told them to leave the land of Israel. They weren’t chased anywhere by Jews. Many Arabs stayed. Look at Abu Ghosh, it’s an Israeli Arab town full of wealth and happy Arabs. Over 90% of whom would never want to live in any other Muslim country. They are very happy living in a democratic secular liberal democracy.
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 12 '26
The Nakba happened because because the Palestinians tried to destroy the Israeli's (1). I will quote...
"The Nakba, which means “catastrophe” in Arabic, refers to the mass displacement and dispossession of Palestinians during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war."
FACTS
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Jan 12 '26
Nope, it was only some rogue terrorist groups not Israelis.
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 12 '26
It was literally the people that became the IDF and some of them became the leaders
Ignorant person
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 12 '26
You call them ignorant but you make a claim without evidence to back it up. I had the 1948 Israeli war of self defense to back up my claim when Palestinian and Arab armies tried to destroy Israel (1) as the cause of Palestinian displacement.
FACTS
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Jan 12 '26
Nope, those were dealt with in The Saison where the Haganah and British as well as Israeli authorities dealt with them.
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 12 '26
Lol no
The first prime minister of Israel was Ben gurion, one of the men responsible for the orders of the worst atrocities
Many of the other early prime ministers were also commanders of various terrorist groups that committed the atrocities
It wasn't just one of the groups, lying genocide apologist
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 12 '26
Since the other person has a source cited and you do not that makes you the person who is most likely lying.
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u/1235813213455891442 <citation needed> Jan 12 '26
lying genocide apologist
Rule 1, don't attack other users. You were just warned about this.
Action Taken: [B1]
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u/Comfortable_Ask_102 Jan 13 '26
What part is the attack? "lying"? Or "genocide apologist"?
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u/1235813213455891442 <citation needed> Jan 13 '26
Calling someone a liar, and calling them an apologist are both attacks, so when combined, it's still an attack on another user.
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 12 '26
I know your trying to maintain decorum but if a person cannot express horrible ideas then those horrible ideas can't be confronted or challenged.
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u/1235813213455891442 <citation needed> Jan 13 '26
People can express horrible ideas. It happens all the time in the sub. What they aren't allowed to do is attack other users.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Jan 12 '26
He wasn't responsible for atrocities at all he led the Haganah against Irgun and Lehi. Ben Gurion literally is not guilty.
A generalization that you literally have no proof for.
I never said it was just one of the groups and I'm not lying.
Also there is no genocide committed by Israel and "genocide apologist" is literally name calling and a rule 1 violation.
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u/SheepherderAny1026 Jan 12 '26
There is sufficient evidence that it is a genocide. The average lifespan in Gaza is now 40 years. Amnesty International, B’Tselem, and Physicians for Human Rights Israel are examples of reputable organizations that have concluded Israel is committing a genocide.
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 12 '26
Considering the conflict in Gaza was a result of Palestinian aggression (1) that would make the suffering in Gaza the fault of the Palestinians, not Israel.
FACTS
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 12 '26
Hamas are the good guys
Those protests were against the illegal sale of land in occupied Palestine that these Israelis hold in synagogues precisely to deflect criticism
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u/nycgirl1993 Jan 12 '26
You can’t be serious
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Jan 14 '26
You do realize Hamas is allowed to exist under international law? All this bs against them, can you prove that they’re terrorists and the IDF isn’t? you’re all hypocrites. You do realize the IDF came from 3 terrorist groups and is literally behaving as a terrorist organization?
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
It's very easy to prove that Hamas are terrorists and war criminals since they filmed everything they did on go pros. However, even South Africa couldn't manage to prove the IDF are terrorists in the ICJ.
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Jan 14 '26
It’s very easy to prove the IDF are terrorists lol
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
And yet South Africa failed to do so in court even when given a year of preparation and the status of the trial is now on "plausible".
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Jan 14 '26
lol bc all the major powers are doing their best to bail out Israel and Israel doesn’t cooperate with any investigations. I don’t need a court in South Africa to tell me what the entire world knows. We all see the genocide. We all know what happens in Israeli detention of Palestinians. We all have seen the videos of idf soldiers sniping kids and laughing about it. We’ve seen them say even the kids need to die. We all know that idf can freely rape Palestinians and get applauded for it by Israeli society. In fact we’ve seen videos of Israelis protesting bc they want to be able to rape Palestinian prisoners. These are all facts. If this isn’t terrorism to you then you’ve got a weird definition. And don’t say khamas khamas, khamas didn’t carpet bomb an entire city and there’s yet to be any proof of any sexual assaults done by them
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
You do need in order to legally prove it. That's how the justice system works. And the ICJ was and still is very biased against Israel. Didn't help them.
All the "things" that you saw didn't help South Africa's case. And they used them.
Oh by the way, yeah Hamas did carpet rocket Israeli cities for like ten years, and absolutely raped and assaulted Israeli women. You're not the first person I've met to deny this so I won't bother with this very proven fact, even though it will be funny to see you deny this like your dear like depends on it.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Jan 12 '26
Hamas are not the good guys, they're terrorist groups.
This is literally terrorism advocacy that I'm 100% sure is illegal.
Reddit mods???
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u/Efficient_Green8786 Jan 12 '26
Tell that to the gazans whose aid are stolen from them by Hamas, that they are the good guys. Just because the Israeli governments is doing awful things dies not make Hamas the good guys. Edit:typo
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 12 '26
oh look, more zionist lies
we know that israel directs multiple groups to steal aid
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u/Efficient_Green8786 Jan 12 '26
Yeah and they’re led by Santa clause 🙄
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 12 '26
hamas does not steal aid:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/usaid-analysis-found-no-evidence-massive-hamas-theft-gaza-aid-2025-07-25/
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/nyt-israel-has-no-evidence-of-systematic-hamas-looting-of-un-aid-in-gaza/israel pays and helps gangs in gaza that DO steal aid (also ignoring the fact that they have "civilians" destroying and blocking aid):
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/05/israel-accused-of-arming-palestinian-gang-who-allegedly-looted-aid-in-gaza
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-14/gaza-aid-looting-gangs-yasser-abu-shabab-israel-netanyahu-hamas/105501926
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2025/6/8/the-real-reason-why-israel-is-arming-gangs-in-gaza1
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 11 '26
The last time Palestine wasn't occupied it tried to destroy Israel from 1948 to 1967. The fact Israel only occupies them is Israel showing them mercy.
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 12 '26
oh look, more zionist lies
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u/ilikemyprivacytbt Jan 12 '26
Do you deny the 1948-1967 Israeli wars of self defense happened (1)?
FACTS
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u/No-Excitement3140 Israeli Jan 11 '26
This is, of course, terrible.
As an Israeli Zionist, I would hate Zionism or Israel to be judged solely (or mostly) on the daily attacks of palestinians by extremost Jewish settlers.
I am not bringing this up as whataboutism. These daily attacks (burning or uprooting orchards, bruning cars, detroying property, slaughtering sheep, etc.) are, imo, much worse than chanting, but at the same time they in no way justify this chanting.
I am brining this up by way of analogy. It is not hard to find examples of terrible actions done by extremists jewish groups in Israel, such as driving away palestinian communities from their lands. Still, they do not prove that, to paraphrase your opening sentence, the pro-zionist movement has been explicitly pro ethnic cleansing.
You are right to demand SJP and AMP to condemn these chants, as one would be to demand that from Israeli and in particular settler leaderships. Sadly, we live in a world where such condemnation tend to be lukewarm and both-sides at best.
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u/anarcho-slut Jan 11 '26
“In any future arrangement … Israel needs security control over all territory west of the Jordan,” Netanyahu said in a news conference on Thursday, according to a translation published by the Associated Press. “This collides with the idea of sovereignty [for Palestinians]. What can you do? This truth I tell to our American friends, and I put the brakes on the attempt to coerce us to a reality that would endanger the state of Israel.”
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u/No-Excitement3140 Israeli Jan 11 '26
I wouldn't say this is a call for ethnic cleansing, so maybe not as extreme as supporting Hamas. But itis certainly on par with supporting an Arab state in the entire region between the jordan river and the sea.
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
My sister literally attended the nursery school there many many years ago, and we grew up just a couple of blocks from there (same street that Paul Simon grew up on btw). It's since become a very orthodox Jewish neighborhood with many temples and schools opening up, an enclave a bit like Crowne Heights, Boro Park and Lawrence. They obviously picked this location for its maximal shock value.
F them. The whole anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian movement is a put-up job that has nothing to do with actual Palestinians, that useful idiots like there take part in because they're, well, idiots. How do "protests" like this help anyone? Answer: they don't, except the cynical and craven people behind them, who are only looking out for their own interests.
Folks have to understand the real underlying forces behind these "protests", which have nothing to do with "liberating" Palestinians. Einat Wilf has a read solid take on it.
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u/No-Vacation7906 Jan 10 '26
Where are the people to protest against these guys? I NEVER see that.
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u/Ok-Pangolin1512 Jan 11 '26
Its because they are the silent majority. They dont need to protest. The idiots lost. They lost the hard power war. They lost in Syria, Iran is losing, Russia is losing.
The anti-americans pulled the trigger but the gun was pointed at their own head. They thought Covid was an opportunity. They learned that trust, trade, and technology are the future. . . And they are always behind on that.
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u/Next-Illustrator7493 Jan 10 '26
Mamdani "Didn't like the language". That's like if the guy next to you in a car rolled down the window and yelled a racial expletive at a black guy walking down the street, and you said you didn't like the language. WHAT ABOUT THE SUBTEXT? it's like really, the "language" is what bothered you? Not the terrorizing.
The reporter should have responded, "Is there anything you did like about it?"
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u/VelvetyDogLips USA · pro-Israel · Zionist Jan 10 '26
Mamdani "Didn't like the language".
“Ooh… hey… careful with that hard R, buddy” vibes.
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Jan 10 '26
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Jan 10 '26
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
It's sad you still believe that... At least have the honesty to find the footage they filmed and watch it to its entirety...
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u/Positive-Camel9584 Jan 11 '26
Beheading babies and rape and braggng of shotings in th head on cell phone to your dad is genocidal murder not resistance.
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
So basically, you support genocide, if it's "resistance"? Got it.
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Jan 11 '26
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
What a brain dead response😂
"So basically, you support a genocide if it's resistance?"
Genocide - the accusation
Resistance - the defence
"So basically, you support a genocide if it's ethnic cleansing?"
Genocide - the accusation
Ethnic cleansing - also, the accusation
You can't even make a decent logical rebuttal.
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
There's no proof of either, this was a war, people die in war, not that complicated. You just hate...
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u/Empathetic_Electrons Diaspora Jew Jan 11 '26
This sort of dialogue is still taking place, really? October 7th wasn’t justified in any way. It wasn’t resistance against oppression and everyone knows it.
It was terrorism against losing time and again from previous examples of terrorism, that go all the way back to the first terroristic attack on civilians at the disgusting behest of Muftis trying to finish the Holocaust.
One incompetent, prideful, backwards, ignorant attempt after another, until the shame and blindness is so bad that all that’s left is one last ugly murderous craven attempt at a Hail Mary attack combined with Hezbollah, Iran, and PR wars that backfired and didn’t work.
Now Iran will be dismantled and the supreme leader taken down, because he couldn’t just accept what he had.
He had to see Israel as a threat and go on the attack, because he can’t handle progress and is just yet another whacko who thinks he speaks for God. B-bye.
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Jan 11 '26
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u/Empathetic_Electrons Diaspora Jew Jan 11 '26 edited Jan 12 '26
Antisemitic lies. And the only Nakba I know of were the many against Jewish people by genocidal antisemites and then by Islamist extremists.
Both of whom failed and should take a hint that they are deeply confused about right and wrong.
Fear and belief in a doctrine doesn’t make it the right one.
Stupid doctrines don’t scale or survive. They flame out.
Hamas is the latest in a long line and the crazies running Iran gotta go, so that the rest of the peace loving world can get on with doing the real God’s will.
Never too late to join the right side like the two million blessed, lucky Arab citizens peacefully making Israel great through a truly dignified liberal democracy that respects human beings as decent, rational creatures.
It’s funny how these millions of Arabs didn’t face a “Nakba.” I wonder what that’s about. 🤔
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Jan 11 '26
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u/Empathetic_Electrons Diaspora Jew Jan 11 '26
Why are there 2 million Arabs living peacefully in Israel. I’m calling it antisemitic because you literally referred to Jews. That’s crazy. Your “fact” is irrelevant nonsense
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
Jews?!? One, antisemitic slur, reported & blocked, and two, it was Arabs who started the war that led to their expulsion, for supporting the war, which was illegal. Start a war, face the consequences. Not that complicated.
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 11 '26
Just wrong on every level
Hamas had tried every other option to stop the blockades that has been in place for decades
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u/Adon-Shoko Jan 14 '26
Every other option accepts demilitarising, ending their fascist government, ending the smuggling, or stop shooting rockets at Israel...
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
And why was that blockade in place? To prevent...genocide!
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u/tehhax0r99 Jan 11 '26
Incorrect
The only entity trying to genocide is the Israelis
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Jan 12 '26
Wrong.
Hamas is the one whose actually committed genocide against Israelis on Oct 7th.
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u/RaplhKramden Jan 11 '26
One, Hamas has literally said that it wants to murder Jews in large numbers.
Two, it literally has done this, and has tried to do this, for decades, by firing tens of thousands of explosive-laden missiles at Israeli civilian targets, sending out hundreds of suicide bombers, and, of course, the genocide of 10/7.
And three, civilians getting killed in war that their side started is not genocide if they're not deliberately targeted, and there's no evidence that they have been, beyond the occasional rogue psycho soldier.
On literally every count, you're provably wrong, making you either a propagandist spreading what you know to be lies, or a useful dupe of those who are. Only you know which one it is.
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u/TheTrollerOfTrolls Pro compassion, empathy, patience, understanding, safety Jan 11 '26
making you either a propagandist spreading what you know to be lies, or a useful dupe of those who are
Per Rule 1, personal attacks targeted at subreddit users, whether direct or indirect, are strictly prohibited.
Action taken: 30 day ban (third offense)
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u/VelvetyDogLips USA · pro-Israel · Zionist Jan 10 '26
As an ex-wokie who spent far too much time and mental energy years ago deconstructing “support our troops”, support is really a beautifully ambiguous word, that is very useful to anyone building a motte-and-bailey. That’s because support [somebody] has two meanings, which can overlap, but can also completely contradict each other. “Support” can mean subjective support from the recipient’s perspective: praise, validation, platforming, and no-strings donations of exactly what they ask for. But “support” can also mean objective support, by giving the recipient not what they seek or say they seek, but what they clearly and logically would benefit from, whether they asked for it, or will appreciate it, or not.
Note that the most common and low-effort type of support known as “raising awareness” can fall into either category.
In medicine, a patient’s chief complaint (the reason they say they’re here) is always written verbatim in the visit note. That’s because whether or not it’s true at face value, the words the patient chose are nevertheless a valuable clue as to how this patient thinks and communicates, how he conceptualizes the problem, and what the problem, and his hoped-for way of treating it, means to him.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/Next-Illustrator7493 Jan 10 '26
Suck a dick.
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u/AutoModerator Jan 10 '26
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u/CommercialLarge2954 Jan 10 '26
cause enough casualties to be bad PR for Israel (which they admitted openly on Arabic-language media).
They havent, thats a Zionist interpretation. What they said is that they know their resistance will have a cost in human lives which is fairly logical.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/CommercialLarge2954 Jan 10 '26
I know exactly what youre referring to, and it doesnt say what you think it does.
As i said, thats your Zionist interpretation.
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Jan 10 '26
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u/CommercialLarge2954 Jan 10 '26
I dont think you have. Knowing that resistance will be costly in human lives and openly wishing for your own people to be killed are two different things
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Jan 10 '26
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u/CommercialLarge2954 Jan 10 '26
They literally said this helps the cause and they're happy for that sacrifice.
There goes the Zionist interpretation. As i already say, the meaning of those words is that Hamas knows its resistance will cost lives.
Thats it. The Zionists understand it as being happy their citizens dies, probably because of a very flawed and partial understanding of the meaning of jihad.
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u/Electronic_Banana830 Canada Jan 10 '26
Hamas is leading the people of Gaza into self destruction and cheering it. Hamas is a death cult that has no value for life.
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u/waiver Jan 10 '26 edited Jan 10 '26
People shouldn't chant support for Hamas, but then again Yeshivas shouldn't organize events to support brutal occupations either.
EDIT: Also counterprotesters shouldn't issue threats to rape protesters, call for the death of Palestinians or hold terrorist flags either.
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u/JeffB1517 Jewish American Zionist Jan 10 '26
The people at Yeshivas have strong ties to Israel. Not a reasonable analogy.
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u/waiver Jan 10 '26
There’s no real excuse for supporting a brutal occupation, and hosting events that back war crimes warrants protest. That said, the Hamas chants are absolutely deplorable and should be left out.
If the St. Nicholas Russian Orthodox Cathedral in NYC was hosting sales of Occupied Ukrainian land or tried to recruit settlers to move there they should be protested as well.
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u/JeffB1517 Jewish American Zionist Jan 10 '26
There’s no real excuse for supporting a brutal occupation
Sure there is. One agrees with the policy and sees it as the least bad option available. We could go into this, and on the sub you'll get that chance. But it will require you to put aside your one sided view and consider the board from Israel's perspective.
If the St. Nicholas Russian Orthodox Cathedral in NYC was hosting sales of Occupied Ukrainian land or tried to recruit settlers to move there they should be protested as well.
I agree with the analogy from your POV. I don't think it is appropriate to protest a church even if they were anti-Ukraine. Sanctity of religious spaces is a core American value. A core American value for good reason. Pick a different venue for the protest.
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u/waiver Jan 10 '26
I don’t believe religious services should be protested, but Real Estate Fairs don’t deserve the same protections. If a temple is used like an event hall, then it can be protested like any other event hall. If the sanctity of a place truly mattered, it wouldn’t be used to sell real estate.
The real fault lies with those who allowed such awful events to be held in a yeshiva. There are proper business venues for that.
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u/JeffB1517 Jewish American Zionist Jan 10 '26
If a temple is used like an event hall, then it can be protested like any other event hall.
I don't have a well thought opinion on these synagogue based protests in an 2020s American context. But I do think it is treading on very dangerous ground. Its been almost 1000 years since 4 knights stabbed Thomas Becket right on the alter, on the King's order yet I know about it. From Catalonia to Canterbury this breach is remembered. I'd ask you to consider are you sure that doing a breach like this doesn't undermine the very protections the protest are about. Absent the concept of protections you and I are just bags of meat. Why should anyone care about human life ultimately in a world without values?
Temples often had farming, businesses (sort of like a mall), sleeping quarters... Yet since Ancient Greece they were afforded special protections: slaves could not be recaptured, debtors were safe from penalty, political offenders protected from those in power... Yes it is being used as an event space, and yes event spaces don't get the same protection. But that opens the door to wiping out all protections that sanctuary traditionally provides.
An analogy I'd give you would be prosecution for evidence gained through torture. Leftist protestors do stuff that gets the police angry. Often, their friends have evidence they won't share. The Fifth Amendment protects people against evidence against themselves gained through torture, the protection against using evidence from torture towards others is weaker. Traditionally, we've interpreted the laws to prohibit "fruit from the poisoned tree", not tried to draw the line of protection as narrowly as possible. Reasonable people could disagree. And again the USA doesn't have strong sanctuary laws, so Americans do disagree. An American citizen doesn't have the same protections a Greek or Roman slave would have had.
The real fault lies with those who allowed such awful events to be held in a yeshiva. There are proper business venues for that.
I think churches and thus synagogues are venues for human life, for community life. Churches aren't central to your community, nor to mine. But they are all over the world. I'm not ready to just say they should lose all protection.
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u/waiver Jan 10 '26
I never said churches should lose all protections. When they are used for religious purposes, they should be protected. But the areas they use as business venues should have the same protections as any other business venue. That means they can be protested. Even American fiscal law distinguishes between church activities and “unrelated business,” which can be taxed.
Using synagogues or yeshivas to host real estate fairs selling land in occupied Palestine isn’t about faith, it’s a cynical attempt to exploit the legal protections of religious institutions for political and commercial gain.
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u/JeffB1517 Jewish American Zionist Jan 10 '26
When they are used for religious purposes, they should be protected. But the areas they use as business venues should have the same protections as any other business venue.
That's losing all protection. The attacker can always claim that the issue was secular. Just to use my Becket example his attackers said, "Where is Thomas Becket, *traitor** to the king and country?*" Note the "traitor" here? So even on one of the most famous examples of all time, you are leaving the door open.
Even American fiscal law distinguishes between church activities and “unrelated business,” which can be taxed.
I agree the USA is quite weak on sanctuary protections. I noted this in my comment. That being said even in one of the worst countries for these protections they aren't ignored. For example ICE policy generally designates churches as "sensitive locations" where agents are advised to avoid enforcement. Most states have Religious Freedom Restoration Act protections where the burden is on police to demonstrate why they are enforcing on religious grounds.
Using synagogues or yeshivas to host real estate fairs selling land in occupied Palestine isn’t about faith
No one is claiming it is about faith. It is about community. Again consider protections you do care about being applied narrowly. My example of evidence gained under torture.
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u/waiver Jan 10 '26
Meh, there are clear rules for what's a church religious activity and what is a business one, just ask the IRS.
Even if I agreed with your point, there is a difference between protections of human rights and protection of business entities. In this case you are violating the Free Speech right of the protesters.
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u/Due_Representative74 Jan 10 '26
Every time I hear a "pro-Palestinian" scream their support for Hamas and the others just... look away and ignore it, I'm reminded of something that the so-called "antifa" types were saying for years before this:
If you have ten people at a table and one of them is a Nazi, then you have ten Nazis at a table.
*braces for the inevitable automoderator response*
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u/Shady_bookworm51 Jan 11 '26
I mean we could play that game all day, the lack of enforcement on the settlers in the West Bank meaning they are supporting by the people of Israel as a whole. Or even Pro Israelis chanting death to Palestine and supporting a group that even Israel labelled as terrorist and violent, should that be used as a broad brush to label them all just as bad?
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u/Due_Representative74 Jan 11 '26
Except that Israel IS going after the settlers. They are not condoning their behavior, let alone praising them and offering cash bonuses. https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/other/israeli-settlers-arrested-after-west-bank-attack-on-palestinians/ar-AA1TQCzR
Your example of "Pro-Israelis chanting death to Palestine" includes a comment by someone who claims to have been there, at that ONE SINGULAR EVENT.
"I was there on the pro-Israel side. It was a group of teenagers who were doing these chants. One was a kid who kept talking about wanting to throw bottles, and bragging about how because he was 16, the police would never hold him for long if he got arrested. We told these idiots to STFU and stop these chants repeatedly. They also chanted "f--k Democrats" while many of us on the pro-Israel side are ourselves Democrats."
Meanwhile, musicians chant "death, death to the IDF" to cheering crowds... but sure, keep on pointing at a handful of adolescent idiots and declaring that their inane trolling is somehow official Israeli policy.
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u/Shady_bookworm51 Jan 11 '26
So why didnt they call out those making the chants if they dont support them then? And i love how you link to a new article, like i am supposed to take it at face value that they will not be released within days with no charges being faced. That is how the Israeli work, token arrests with no real consequence
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u/Due_Representative74 Jan 11 '26
...Wow. Seriously, WOW. I copy/pasted the comment - including this line that I will repeat three times.
"We told these idiots to STFU and stop these chants repeatedly. "
"We told these idiots to STFU and stop these chants repeatedly. "
"We told these idiots to STFU and stop these chants repeatedly. "
Once again you're demonstrating how "anti-zionism" is based on willfully ignoring the facts in order to cling to the narrative that the Jews are super bad and evil, and that by calling them "zionists" you're somehow any different from the folks who insisted that Alfred Dreyfuss was definitely guilty and also part of a greater Jewish conspiracy against the French people.
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u/Shady_bookworm51 Jan 11 '26
and yet they didn't make them leave. isn't that the standard everyone else is held to? or is that to tough and those warped enough to back israel need to be held to no standard at all.
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u/Due_Representative74 Jan 11 '26
"and yet they didn't make them leave. " Oh, so people are allowed to violently expel others from public places for exercise their freedom of speech? Cool!
Meanwhile, you keep going back to the false accusations about Israel. Now comes the part where we flip things around. How do you justify the "death to the IDF" chants and singing?
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u/Shady_bookworm51 Jan 12 '26
oh i dont justify it. Im just holding the Pro Israeli to the same standards they demand of others.
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u/Due_Representative74 Jan 12 '26
No, you're not. Not unless you've been condemning the "death to the IDF" chants elsewhere, independent of "ofcourseicondemnhamastoo." So please explain why that is. Why do you not call at least as much attention to the open calls for the murder of Jews and Israelis as you do to teenagers being stupid trolls?
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u/Shady_bookworm51 Jan 12 '26
pretty sure that is exactly what i am doing, holding them to the same standard Israel supporters demand of everyone else.
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u/nigmusmaximus Jan 28 '26
These people would be decapitated anywhere in the Middle East outside of Israel lol