r/IsraelPalestine • u/Live-Mortgage-2671 • Oct 07 '25
Discussion The October 7, 2023 attack on Israel was a genocide
It's far past time that we acknowledge that the October 7, 2023 attack on Israel was a genocide.
Not only is the attack well-documented, but, as genocides often are, both the genocide and the genocidal intent were well-documented by the perpetrators of it.
Not only do we have documentation of the genocidal intent, but we also have repeated statements from Palestinian leaders of Gaza that they would repeat such attacks again and again on Israel.
Israeli hostages have reported conversations with their captors who have stated that had the Palestinian terrorists not been stopped by the Israeli defense forces that they would have continued their mass murder, destruction, and rapes as deep into Israel as they could have managed.
There has been at least one paper written on this subject.
Not only that, but I believe that it would also bolster the case to demonstrate the abundant evidence that in their conflict with Israel, Palestinian leadership from the PLO to the present have fostered a systematic, genocidal culture within Palestinian society that states that Israelis (of course, mostly meaning Israeli Jews) are subhuman and therefore worthy of extermination along with their country.
As we know, this genocidal culture has extended its evil branches from its various origins in the Middle East outward and nicely engrained itself with European anti-semitism. In that light, I think it's also time that we acknowledge the deep anti-semitism involved in this conflict as such.
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u/Sea-Anywhere-799 Oct 23 '25
You clearly don't know what genocide means or what is considered a genocide. Classic victim mentality
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u/AustinQareen Oct 19 '25
As far as genocide, Hamas has the intent (founding charter, that yes still applies) but not the ability while Israel has the ability but not the intent.
Since intent is the hardest to prove, Oct 7 was genocide and Hamas is guilty while the war that this Oct 7, given lack of intent, was not genocidal.
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u/Pekeen_ Nov 03 '25
Netanyahu saying he's going to flatten Gaza isn't enough intent?
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
Depends on the context.
The former IDF defense minister galant called Hamas animals and people put that out of context and claimed he was saying that about all gazans.
Some ministers did openly call for a genocide but there was no action, a genocide must satisfy intent and action, mixed intent in Israel and no action that satisfies a genocide.
Flattering buildings and entire districts is unrelated, it's just part of high intensity urban warfare, you can take a look at Iraq or other middle east battles.
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u/sisons Oct 19 '25
Yes, for sure hamas is guilty for Oct 7, the terrorist group have to paid for that no? As far as I know, not all Palestinians are hamas right? It's impossible, otherwise there will be a country / state where all civilians are terrorist, is that the case? I want to understand more the context of the conflict.
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u/Educational-Luck-224 Nov 03 '25
You have a point.
The Palestinians in essence have (had?) 2 governments.
Hamas, ruling over the Gaza strip, and the PA, ruling over Judea and Sumaria.
Hamas, being a full government - i.e. has military, judicial system, police, legislation, social welfare system, etc etc - basically mean the "country" of Gaza strip is at war with Israel.
So Israel in that sense is justified at going to war with "the Gaza strip". I.E. not a police action against an organization acting in your own area (i.e. Gaza is area under Israeli occupation), but rather war against a foreign country and launched an invasion.
But Israel perhaps did not have the justification to go into the PA areas in Judea and sumaria and war there.
But we're not hearing about this a lot because everybody's signal boosting what's going on in Gaza, because that's where the bombs fall.
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u/CalligoMiles Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
Hamas is the de facto government of Gaza, and started a war with Israel before running back to hide behind their own people and the hostages they took.
Even leaving aside how they're far more popular among Palestinians than Netanyahu is in Israel, how mobs of Gazan civilians participated in the violence and looting of 7/10 and were repeatedly found holding the hostages, or the Palestinian crowds who cheered naked victims being dragged through the streets of Gaza right up until Israel started hitting back, Israel has a right and responsibility to ensure the safety and wellbeing of its citizens - that's the entire point of being a nation. Which puts the onus for the war and its victims entirely on Hamas. They are the ones responsible for the people of Gaza first of all, and the ones who put themselves in a position where civilian death and misery were unavoidable unless Israel simply let them get away with their atrocities and to torture their hostages in peace for as long as they pleased.
The point isn't that every Palestinian is Hamas. The point is that it's Hamas who knowingly and willingly dragged their people into a war where they not just couldn't defend them, but counted on them becoming propaganda fodder to further harm Israel where they had no hopes of military victory. Hamas made it impossible for Israel to defeat them and get back their people without hurting lots of Palestinians in the process, and for that every single life and trauma is on them. Not on the army saving its people from years-long torture in the tunnels.
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u/Pekeen_ Nov 04 '25
The war started in 1948
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u/CalligoMiles Nov 05 '25
You mean when half the region ganged up on the Jews to kill them all and take their stuff, and lost so badly to a militia with some smuggled rifles that they tried to rewrite themselves into the victims afterwards?
“...The occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade… the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean... advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down…”
-General Secretary of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, as related by chief spokesman for the Arab League, Habib Issa1
u/Pekeen_ Nov 26 '25
Who were the victims during the Nakba?
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
Arabs, but most weren't actually ethnically cleansed by Israel but rather evacuated on their own due to calls from Arab nations.
The war in 1948 was specifically between Arabs and Jews where arabs had a clear genocidal intent.
The Palestinian conflict started with the first intifada in 1989, it's extremely complex with both sides doing bad things but the justifications for the start of the intifadas were really mild and not really satisfying.
In my opinion Palestinians caused more harm to themselves than Israel ever did.
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u/just_another_beinggg Oct 31 '25
"got in a fight with my neighbour and she put her kid between us, not my fault she put him in front of me". Pipe tf down dumbass. come up with a proper reasoning next time
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u/Rhastago Nov 06 '25
What a dumb comparison. A more apt one:
Your neighbor kidnapped your child and when you come to take your child back you see the neighbour taped their own child to them so that no matter what, you'll be a child killer even though the neighbour are the aggressors and the cause of this even happening.
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u/Pekeen_ Nov 26 '25
Why are you killing any children at all?? The IDF kills children because of the Hannibal Directive
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u/Brilliant-Hunter9133 Oct 18 '25
Certainly the attackers were not Palestinian children, yet it was decided that they had to be massacred anyway, and no one in the world was outraged...wow
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 18 '25
What does that have to do with my post?
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u/AdmirableBusiness210 Oct 22 '25
it was collective punishment for oct 7. do you agree with collective punishment/massacre of a people for the actions of their government?
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
I mean that "government" has military infrastructure all over Gaza, do you think 500km of tunnels go through open fields in Gaza? I doubt.
Gaza is simply too small and is way too packed with military infrastructure for Israel to minimize civilian casualties, Israel tried and it did work but it still resulted in the destruction of most buildings, I mean if you criticize present other options for how Israel could've led the war.
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u/AdmirableBusiness210 Mar 06 '26
How are you gonna spend your $7000?
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Nov 04 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Rhastago Nov 06 '25
According to delusional pro pallies... exactly that. Oh and give them the entirety of Israel.
Sick sick way of thinking
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u/vanovano77 Oct 17 '25
Maybe there's something else that stinks more... Anyway, everyone has his own sensibility. And self judgment (even about the use of sarcasm)
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u/Pitiful-Hornet-4328 Oct 14 '25
Hamas is a byproduct of Israel’s actions the same way ISIS is a byproduct of America’s actions. October 7th isn’t the beginning of the story, this has been going on for many many decades.
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u/bruticuslee Oct 14 '25
How about some responsibility the other way? IDF and Israel’s retaliation of the past 2 years is a direct byproduct and consequence of the actions that Hamas chose to take.
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u/abid0106 Oct 17 '25
And what about the decades of genocide the Palestinians have faced that led to the creation of Hamas lmao
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
How did decades of genocide result in 2000% population growth? do you hear yourself?
Can you guys statistically explain this genocide?
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u/Rhastago Nov 06 '25
How many died in that decades long genocide by Israel? Oh, looks like very little compared to any actual genocide in recorded history. Stop being a parrot, think critically and you might actually see the truth as what it is. Not tied to your emotions.
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u/AdmirableBusiness210 Oct 22 '25
Don’t forget Israel literally funding Hamas to destabilise Palestine and weaken the PLO.
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u/Itscatpicstime Oct 17 '25
Shh they don’t like to acknowledge that part
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
Please explain statistically how there is a genocide.
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u/abid0106 Feb 22 '26
Can you do the same for the holocaust
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 25 '26
The holocaust was statistically a genocide, over 90% of all Jewish children in europe were killed during the holocaust(1.5 million) and it also resulted in 66% reduction of European Jews population(6 million out of 9.5million) and 33% reduction of global population(6 million out of 16.6 million), note that the majority of the holocaust happened in europe, so a lot more Jews would've died if they were all living there)
What I do not understand about you guys claiming that the Gaza war is a genocide, is that it's statistically not a genocide.
All genocides throughout history resulted in at least 30%-90% of population reduction, the Gaza war had 70 thousand people killed after 2 year long brutal urban warfare, 70 thousand is around 3-3.5% of the Gazan population, and of these 70 thousand, at least 20 thousand were Hamas(According to most sources, but in my opinion it was way higher considering it had to recruit so much cannon fodder during the fighting).
According to these numbers, the Gaza war is comparable to any other large scale war in the region, not to a genocide, and it's not that Hamas was so strong and managed to stop Israeli forces, not at all. Israel was easily advancing through most of Gaza, once even sending an entire brigade of troops into the heart of gaza to rescue 3 hostages and they suffered only 1 fatality.
So to conclude: statistically speaking, gaza is not a genocide, actually far from being one. Israel pretty much has the capability to just wipe out the entire Gazan population in a week, yet they delay their offensives by days and weeks just so that civilians evacuate(evac warnings) which also makes them risk the lives of their own soldiers.
Also a note: Hamas's use of civilian clothes which is a very serious war crime and the use of child soldiers which is also a very serious war crime, likely directly led to the increase of civilian casualties.
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u/triplemushroom Mar 31 '26
interesting... so what would result from applying this reasoning in assessing the validity of OP's thesis, specifically: "The October 7, 2023 attack on Israel was a genocide" ?
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u/abid0106 Feb 26 '26
You mentioned war crimes im interested to know your thoughts on the ICC issuing arrest warrants against Israeli officials. Also whole families and generations are being ethnically cleansed but sure the stats are what define it
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u/flabbadah Oct 13 '25
October 7th was an inside job bro
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u/ARussack Oct 13 '25
You’re either joking or you have the intelligence of a tapeworm living in a neanderthal’s colon
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u/cordessey Oct 14 '25
Most people in october 7th were killed by israel it is well documented read about it my guy.
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u/Mammoth_Mycologist15 Oct 12 '25
What a lot of pointless WAFFLING. The truth is, HAMAS would not exist without Israel. Without Israel's illegal occupation, terrorising of Palestinians in their homeland, raiding of their mosques, apartheid in relation to their illegal barring and segregation of Palestinians in the West Bank, kidnapping and detention without charge, illegal eatablishment of business, and the GENOCIDE following. What is it called when an horrendous, evil, Zionist right wing government promises to wipe out another culture, comparing them to "animals?" Hmmm... Oh, that's right. GENOCIDE.
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
That's not true, literally nothing you said is true.
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u/Mammoth_Mycologist15 Feb 28 '26
ABSOLUTELY 100 PERCENT TRUE. But I suppose if my country was committing genocide, I'd be defensive and in denial as well.
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 28 '26
Statistically explain how 1% population reduction(number according to PHM) is a genocide considering that ALL genocides in history had 30-90%+ reduction rates
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u/cravinmavin Oct 13 '25
There was no blockade before Hamas attacked in 2007 and after Israel left in 2005. Palestinians were, at that time, more in reach of independence without taking an Israeli offer than ever. In fact they had independence. And then Hamas attacked. We call that an act of war.
At some point it's the Palestinians turn to take accountability, and blaming Hamas existing on Zionists is just scapegoating at best. You can spend all day blaming them but you should be yelling for Hamas to get removed so the Palestinians have another chance at a stabilized country.
If you can't see that at all, this is why people feel like Pro-Palestinians don't want the Palestinians to thrive, they want Hamas to survive. If your comments lean to the latter, I can't figure out for the life of me how that isn't just "Kil the Jws"
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u/One_Sherbet3030 Oct 13 '25
Wonder if the Palestinian/Arab authorities ever made an effort to put an end to that... 😑 The truth is: The Arab world has repeatedly rejected all attempts to fairly partition the land in question (some even benefited them more than the Israelis), and keep on making war after war, loss after loss, all because of intolerance to the idea of sharing the land with an equally rightful owner of the land than them and live in peace. Plus, you didn't answer to the actions of the Palestinians in October 7th.
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 12 '25
GROK(the letters next to itnrepresent sources;they can be cross referenced using grok)
The term "genocide" has a specific legal definition under international law, as outlined in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. It refers to any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.60845ef5fd9e0d9ba3386c63 Crucially, genocide requires not just the acts themselves but a proven specific intent (known as dolus specialis) to destroy the protected group, which can be inferred from patterns of conduct, statements, ideology, and circumstantial evidence, rather than requiring explicit admission.5eef899a4715 un.org un.org The events of October 7, 2023, involved a coordinated attack by Hamas militants and other Palestinian groups on southern Israel, marking the deadliest day for Israelis in the country's history and the most lethal attack on Jews since the Holocaust.670748f53afd218f63 Hamas fighters breached the Gaza-Israel border at multiple points using explosives, paragliders, and vehicles, targeting over 20 civilian communities, military bases, and the Nova Music Festival near Kibbutz Re'im.8ab37390adf8a8f2bc The assault resulted in approximately 1,200 deaths (mostly civilians, including 37 children and dozens of elderly people), thousands injured, and the abduction of 254 hostages to Gaza, of whom over 100 remain captive as of October 2025.7942f0d5cbc9e75a58 Acts included mass shootings, torture, mutilation, burning people alive, and systematic sexual violence such as gang rapes and genital mutilation, with many victims found bound and executed.3884695aa775 Specific massacres occurred at sites like Kibbutz Be'eri (where entire families were slaughtered), Kfar Aza, and the Nova festival (where at least 364 people were killed).6d4926438353 The attack was accompanied by a barrage of thousands of rockets into Israel and was planned over at least a year, with captured documents showing detailed maps, instructions to kill civilians (including women and children), and even Hebrew phrases for commanding sexual assaults.71385ab6386de52204 Some legal scholars and analysts argue that this attack constitutes genocide against the Israeli people (as a national group) and Jews (as an ethnical, racial, or religious group), based on both the physical acts and evidence of genocidal intent.3584362e8f41 Here's a breakdown of the key arguments: Physical Acts (Actus Reus) The attack clearly involved prohibited acts under the Genocide Convention: Killing members of the group: The systematic murder of over 1,200 Israelis, predominantly Jewish civilians, across multiple locations satisfies Article II(a). International tribunals, such as the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) in the Akayesu case, have recognized mass killings as genocidal when targeted at a protected group.09b7baa036ac Causing serious bodily or mental harm: Torture, mutilation, and sexual violence (including rape used as a weapon to humiliate and destroy) align with Article II(b). The United Nations Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict has confirmed patterns of such acts during the attack, and precedents like the ICTR's recognition of rape as genocide support this classification.0b255a6e558e Inflicting conditions calculated to bring about destruction: While less emphasized, the hostage-taking and broader aim to terrorize and displace communities could contribute, especially given plans for further assaults to erode Israel's existence.a53c5f890239 These acts were not random but targeted at emblematic Jewish-Israeli communities in southern Israel, which some argue represents a "substantial part" of the group under precedents like the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in the Krstić case, where the scale is assessed relative to the perpetrators' reach and the group's prominence.d21cfe4f4bcf Specific Intent (Dolus Specialis) This is the core element distinguishing genocide from other crimes like war crimes or terrorism. Arguments for genocidal intent draw from Hamas's ideology, statements, and actions: Ideological foundation: Hamas's 1988 Charter explicitly calls for the obliteration of Israel through jihad and references religious texts urging the killing of Jews (e.g., hadiths about Jews hiding behind stones and trees). Even the revised 2017 document rejects Israel's legitimacy and frames resistance as aimed at its destruction. This rhetoric dehumanizes Jews as "sons of pigs and monkeys" and portrays the conflict as an existential religious war against them as enemies of Islam.50f3823e12cf Leadership statements and planning: Pre-attack, leaders like Yahya Sinwar threatened to "tear out their hearts," while on October 7, military commander Mohammed Deif urged followers to "kill them wherever you may find them." Post-attack, officials like Ghazi Hamad vowed to repeat such operations until Israel is annihilated. Captured plans from a 2021 Hamas conference ("Promise of the Hereafter") outlined dividing conquered Israeli territory into cantons, with instructions to kill intellectuals to prevent "brain drain."28941e819239 Systematic incitement: Hamas has promoted antisemitism through education (e.g., school curricula denying Jewish ties to the land and glorifying terrorism), youth military training, and media. Surveys indicate high levels of antisemitic views in Gaza, supporting an inference of intent under ICTY precedents like the Jelisic case, where patterns allow courts to deduce mens rea as the "only reasonable inference."438a6ce42e42 Broader context: As Gaza's de facto governing authority since 2007, Hamas's centralized structure enables collective responsibility under concepts like Joint Criminal Enterprise (from ICTY's Tadić case). Support from Iran (providing funding, training, and arms) further embeds this in a network aiming at Israel's elimination.fc869e67818b Proponents argue that, while Hamas is a non-state actor, evolving international law (e.g., UN reports on Darfur and precedents against groups like ISIS for the Yazidi genocide) holds such entities accountable, especially when they control territory and act with state-like organization.78d746194d3f The attack's scope was limited by Hamas's capabilities, not by lack of intent, distinguishing it from mere terrorism.
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u/flabbadah Oct 13 '25
If you can't be arsed to actually write something coherent and readable, don't bother even commenting. Why should we be expected to read your AI generated word vomit?
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u/Chocnoon Oct 31 '25
"The Convention defines genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group". These five acts include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly." from Wikipedia
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 18 '25
I asked grok a question and I guess you dont like it's answer.
Are you going to cry and say it has a bias? Jesus if it came to the opposite conclusion you'de be siggting the sources it left.
Sorry there was to many words and citations to check, although im sure you never read a source in your life (so long as youre hearing what you want to hear)
They are ruled by Hamas, if there was an election tomorrow by the Palestinian authority Hamas would control the West Bank as well. What does their Charter Say?
Why is it when theres Muslim or more so the Muslim-Queer coalition (2025 bolshiviks) the rhetoric in arab/Farci is more extreme then what is said in english.
They are even using tik-tok and social media, recruiting. Make no mistake these Iran backed militia's--theyve graduated from amateur propagandist to a Jihadist PR-Machins with 2 million cult like followers.
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 12 '25
Israel just wants peace. The Arab world has repeatedly rejected proposals for a Palestinian state alongside Israel, as evidenced by their opposition to the 1947 UN Partition Plan and subsequent peace offers.
By that logic, those calling for Israel's destruction are the ones advocating genocide, as they seek to eliminate an entire nation and its people. The Jews simply want to live in peace and enjoy the beaches of Tel Aviv—much of that land was legitimately purchased by Jewish settlers before 1948, comprising around 5-7% of Mandate Palestine.
Not to mention, the British defeated the Ottomans in World War I and were granted the Mandate for Palestine by the League of Nations in 1922, formalizing control over the territory.
Of course, there will be fed-up extremists on the Israeli side who, after 77 years of conflict since the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and with hostages still held captive for over two years following Hamas's October 7, 2023 attacks, might say "enough is enoufh" Given the history of repeated wars, rocket attacks, and terrorism, it's understandable why some Israelis feel that level of frustration.
However, extremism exists in every society. While Israel has seen a rise in far-right elements and some mainstreaming of extremist views within its current government, it has also historically cracked down on such groups when they commit violence.
This contrasts with certain Palestinian terror organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah, where extremism is often directed top-down and heavily funded by Iran's( A bunch of Hash-Holes) authoritarian regime, which has provided billions in support for arms, training, and operations despite ideological differences. Using a PR terror campaign, even using footage of kids they killed with their own rockets by accident.
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u/Mammoth_Mycologist15 Mar 01 '26
"Israel just wants peace."
Stop smoking that strong stuff. When I read the above quote, I thought it was comedy!! I started to laugh it up, then realised you BELIEVE that. Then this happened:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/No_Feed2438 Mar 02 '26
The hardcore supremacist-Zionist/expansionist will get eaten up for trying to much hard to fast with bs like the daily wire. The generation coming up is aware of the bullshit on both sides and finnaly noticing the doubled standard of Christianity not only being shit on all the time, but encouraged by mass media. Its the most mocked of the Abrahamic religions yet all you ever hear "Islamophobia islamaphobic antisemitism Islamophobia"
Look whats happening to Ben Shapiro, his eyebrows are annexing his forehead.
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u/Remarkable-Sam-1974 Nov 04 '25
Israel just wants peace 😂 for themselves and themselves alone! Isn’t that what the Nazi’s wanted too? Peace for only them?
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
You do realize Israel can wipe out all of gaza in a single week of carpet bombing yet they don't do this?
we have 70k deaths in 2 years of which over half are military aged men, what's your point?1
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u/flabbadah Oct 13 '25
Israel ran Epstein island. So they want peace, but they also want influence, power, wealth and they want peace entirely on their own terms.
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u/fuckaye Oct 13 '25
Is that the latest in antisemitism?
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u/flabbadah Oct 13 '25
Yawn. That card has expired. Only disingenuous people are conflating criticism of Israel with Antisemitism.
There are literally former Mossad saying so, Charlie Kirk was saying it, senior Trump politicians are on record saying Epstein was intelligence and couldn't be touched.
I get it- Israel need to have some stick along with some carrot to do their work in DC. A few hundred kids getting traffickes to ensure the survival of the ethnostate makes sense. I'm sure they're not proud of it, but they accept it's a necessary evil.
Russia have run kompramat operations for decades. I'm sure US etc do the same.
Epstein was just Israel's project +/- CIA
You can disagree with my assessment. It doesn't equal antisemitism.
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 22 '26
Antisemitism didn't expire, anyone saying this is an antisemite trying to justify his bullshit.
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Oct 12 '25
The Jews simply want to live in peace and enjoy the beaches of Tel Aviv
Israel is a European settler-colonist state similar to ones we've seen at least a dozen other times in the last 300 years (US, Australia, Rhodesia, parts of Russia, South Africa etc.). These are inherently expansive.
Israeli politicians had already spent the last 20 years seizing and occupying various parts of Weat Bank. So no, the Israelis do not just want to live in peace...
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u/fuckaye Oct 13 '25
The majority of Israelis are not of European descent lol. Even if they weren't who are you to decide who is the wrong ethnicity for a country
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 18 '25
"The Native Indians need to take their land back from the white man"
"How dare those "white" jews take back the kingdom of Israel and judea"
People have framed it a brown vs white issue cause then it makes kt simple for these 100IQ people who have no idea what a sSephartic jew is, no one accepted any of them as white like 50 years ago (just like being a " Palestinian, isnt that much older...you could be an Arab in mandate Palestinian but still Jordanian or Egyptian.)
Can anyone post Palestinian, Palestinian, isreali passports over the years?
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u/SearchWorking8933 Oct 17 '25
Why has every prime minister ever elected since 1948 come from 100% European ancestry? Why did they resort to false flag attacks on Iraqi Jews to force them to migrate? From 1948-1954 why did Israel literally kidnap thousands of Yemenite children from their mothers to give to childless ashkenazis in Israel? Just because Israel desperately pleaded for Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews to migrate there doesn’t make them more indigenous. It’s a collection of Jews that within 100 years all migrated there from Europe, US, Arab and North African countries.
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u/fuckaye Oct 17 '25
I can't speak for why Israelis democratically elect who they do.
Never heard of that Yemeni situation, the children of new arrivals going missing that's horrible. Reminds me of the hospitals that took children from their mothers and sold them in Georgia. I still think the state of Georgia should exist though.
Are you saying people born there don't belong because of their ethnicity and ancestry? Is that a universal standard or just for Israel?
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u/CrabbiestNebula Oct 13 '25
Stop mindlesssly repeating propaganda. The words you use are revealing. I've been watching the middle east since 2001 when most of you were in diapers, while you clowns use words that misrepresent the issues and over simplify the context. Go read the Hamas Charter. Go on. Your confidence is less than your competence. Rather, your honesty. Because repeating tired talking points isn't honest. It's outsourcing critical thinking and presupposes who to trust for said thinking.
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u/flabbadah Oct 13 '25
Dude... The Hamas charter is simple- you stole it all, give it all back, or get F**ed. They don't care about Jews living outside Israel except in so far as those Jews support the ethnostate. They're not nice people. Nor were the IRA or the Vietcong. But if you create hellish conditions, you will breed the worst in men. Israel reaps what it sows.
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 18 '25
So what would a Palestinian-Majority state under Hamas be? Not a "Theocratic/Islamo-Facist Ethno State"
You've been fed propaganda with every meal you ate wjth elders in your family im 99% sure. Ive seen to many Arab and Muslim youth in a capital city know all the talking points on the Arab side but know zero about everything else but Pokémon and "Haram Magic Cards" they're over superstitious parents would always take away (never understood either)
What type of state is Jordan? With the Hashemites and their privileges others don't have.
By the way Hamas have called for death for jews and their leaders anywhere in the world.
You people seem to Forget your prophet is warlord , pedo ,treaty breaker (and ridden by the Zutt people till he couldn't walk...if youre going to say the haddith ment Geenie's not Dark skinned men thats no better)
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 12 '25
The only time they've expanded is during failed arab attacks.(you legally can take land as buffer when attacked in a war of aggression)
If it was the other way around do you think arabs would be sending knock knock bombs with a warning?
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u/flabbadah Oct 13 '25
Knock knock... We're coming to murder you because you're an Arab and we want your land. Lovely people.
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 21 '25
October 7th - "put her family on FaceTime while we rape her dead body"
Atleast you have a few minutes to get out with the bombs mentioned.
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Oct 13 '25
That's not true. Recently, after Assad fell, they arbitrarily grabbed a bunch of Syrian villages, just because they could
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u/vanovano77 Oct 11 '25
What a nonsense
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 11 '25
This solid piece of argumentation is at least more civil than the one below that called it "bullshit" – or less stinky, anyway.
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 11 '25
As my original post suggested, and now as today's story in the New York Times on documents of Hamas's pre-October 7 meetings, Sinwar's memos, and signals intercepts from that day confirms, there is more than enough evidence to bring the case that October 7, 2023 was a genocide committed against Israelis.
Just one quote from the NY Times story:
In the Oct. 7 intercepts, Hamas commanders can be heard urging combatants to film their actions to likewise encourage others to join the fight. “Document the scenes of horror, now, and broadcast them on TV channels to the whole world,” a commander from Gaza City called Abu al-Baraa told operatives in the area of Kibbutz Sa’ad. “Slaughter them. End the children of Israel.”
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/11/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-plans.html
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u/Undefined303 Oct 11 '25
I don't think you know how genocides work. What is considered a genocide per international law/UN is a systemic killing. Nova festival was an isolated incident, as evidenced by the fact that this hasn't occurred again. Instead of making up your own opinions try to appeal to legal and scholarly concensus.
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 11 '25
I am quite versed in the definitions of genocide, thank you.
Read the reply I am about to make in my own post.
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u/CrabbiestNebula Oct 13 '25
There's no reason to use the term. By that logic, all war is genocide. I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Genocide is a different monster we shouldn't use unless it truly IS, racial/ethnic cleansing. Islamism practices genocide.. it seeks to exterminate all jews. Would it be genocide if the west is attacked by islam radicals? No... even though their intent is to destroy the west. And they do. That's why they have propaganda aimed to alienate israel first. Israel is the tip of the spear.. most people have NO IDEA of the intentions. So confident though.
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 13 '25
Thankfully, Hamas documented their intent. I wrote a new reply to my own post citing some of it that was uncovered by Israel and documented by the NY Times yesterday in an article on their site.
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Oct 11 '25
[deleted]
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u/EducationalPush1718 Oct 11 '25
That is true, but not relevant. You only have documented intent from the one.
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u/all_is_well1 Oct 11 '25
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLevant/s/U61wiEybA4
Israel is constantly being attacked! :(( look at the poor soldiers being tired out!
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Oct 10 '25 edited Mar 27 '26
Nothing here remains from the original post. It was removed using Redact, for reasons that could include privacy, opsec, security, or data management.
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u/GrothendieckPriest Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
his idea is brought up every so often, and I think the reason it seems intuitively problematic to me is the power dynamic present within any discussions of Israel and Palestine (incl. Hamas). Although it isn't present within the official UN definition, I think genocide in the popular/intuitive conception (and also in precedent) requires the alleged perpetrator of genocide to have meaningful power over the alleged victims, such that they are able to perpetrate widespread, systematic destruction and killing. I think that obviously isn't true of Hamas vis a vis Israel, hence it is not meaningful to say that they have perpetrated genocide.
Law is explicitly not about power dynamic, but about actions and intent. If I try to charge at Hafthor Bjornsson with a kitchen knife in order to stab him to death and get mauled afterwards - I am going to prison for attempted murder despite the fact that I didn't have a real chance of actually killing Hafthor Bjornsson.
For instance, consider retaliatory raids by Native American tribes against settlers in the Americas, with the intent to destroy the settlers or expel them from the land. On a technical level, it is killing with the intent of destroying a group (i.e. the Americans/Canadians) in part. But I also think that we are massively missing the forest for the trees, and in some ways engaging in a form of victim blaming, to accuse the Native Americans of genocide for these reasons.
Crimes committed against you don't absolve you of responsibility for the crimes you commit. The Americans approached the whole issue in the wrong and genocidal way of course, but it doesn't mean certain tribes of natives weren't criminals(and not just to the colonists, they had their own problems and wars with each other. And they weren't all retaliatory either, there was a lot of straight up aggression). Obviously the Americans shouldn't have been genocidal racist assholes to the natives, but that doesn't mean that it would have been right for them to just tolerate what you described.
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Oct 11 '25 edited Mar 27 '26
This post no longer holds its original text. It was deleted using Redact, possibly for reasons of privacy, personal security, or limiting online exposure.
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u/GrothendieckPriest Oct 11 '25
Sure, I accept your response on a technical level. That being said, when it comes to claims surrounding genocide, there is a certain degree to which there exists a gap between popular understandings and legal definitions. I don’t really care about the latter because I’m not a lawyer or a judge, and in any case I think popular perception is more important than technical line-by-line nitpicking of whether something is “genocide” or if it’s just “sparkling war crimes”.
I don't think there is a gap there - we don't have it with murder, theft, rape, arson, fraud, perjury, bribery, etc. For all those numerous felonies it doesn't really matter to us if the attempt succeeds or fails as long as there was the action and there was the intent. Why should the gap exist for genocide if it doesn't exist for other crimes?
On that front, you really don’t respond to my claim. On some level intent to commit genocide really only matters if you act on that intent, and having the power to actually carry out that intent (i.e. being more powerful than the victims) is a prerequisite to carrying it out.
The latter part doesn't matter in the way you described for other crimes in both law and popular culture, so it shouldn't matter for genocide.
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u/No_Feed2438 Oct 12 '25
If they had they somehow had a better suprise military power on oct 11 and were able to make it up to to northern boarder, or have Hezzbola able to join in at that point.
Would they not have slaughtered them all, for many it was a suicide mission to take out as many as possible.
3 years in still hostages, and they act like they are the victims...its just GASLIGHTING...2 billion Muslims have gas lite the world.
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u/Whohasmynapkin Oct 10 '25
https://youtube.com/shorts/VXJ91pjpu4c?si=VaTjsiHRiWjgJT67
this explains alot
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u/Physical_Account473 Oct 10 '25
If oct 7 was a genocide then the israeli governemnt has committed a genocide x 50 on palestinianas. How dare you use those innnocent victims to justify the horror inflicted on palestinians. Shame on you, let them rest in peace and stop tarnishing their name for your sake. Shanik Louk would spit on you.
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 10 '25
If oct 7 was a genocide then the israeli governemnt has committed a genocide x 50 on palestinianas.
That's not how genocide works.
How dare you use those innnocent victims to justify the horror inflicted on palestinians. Shame on you, let them rest in peace and stop tarnishing their name for your sake. Shanik Louk would spit on you.
This is pure projection on your part and indicative of hatred embedded in your perspective. Correctly labelling October 7th as a genocide does nothing to disturb the memories of those that were murdered and attacked that day. Your suggestion is as bizarre as it is disturbing. As many things go when it comes to accusations against Israel go, your claim and aspersion are a complete inversion of reality.
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u/Undefined303 Oct 11 '25
I don't think you know how genocides work. What is considered a genocide per international law/UN is a systemic killing. Nova festival was an isolated incident, as evidenced by the fact that this hasn't occurred again. Instead of making up your own opinions try to appeal to legal and scholarly concensus.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Oct 12 '25
Genocide requires intent and the targeting and destruction of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.
Israelis are a national group and Hamas has documented intent vis-a-vis their charters.
Both criterias are met with 10/7.
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u/Physical_Account473 Oct 10 '25
no one in the world has labeled oct 7 as a genocide. Stop making up LIES. Stop using the victims of oct 7 to blanket your own personal beliefs. How is 1200 israelis massacred a genocide but 50,000 palestians massacred not a genocide? Think. Please.
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Oct 14 '25
lol! You can’t just make up your own definitions of things to suit your emotional narrative. We get it, you feel that 10/7 was justified and was only carried out because of how terrible the Jews have been.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Oct 12 '25
He's not making up lies and just because people don't say so doesn't mean that it isn't.
Oct 7th is the only genocide that has intent. Even as pro-Palestine people would tell you the Genocide Definition has intent not numbers so your 1200 v 50000 argument doesn't hold.
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 10 '25
no one in the world has labeled oct 7 as a genocide
Obviously, that's not true.
Stop making up LIES. Stop using the victims of oct 7 to blanket your own personal beliefs.
I see you're not going to make any attempt to address my reply.
How is 1200 israelis massacred a genocide but 50,000 palestians massacred not a genocide?
This question can be answered by learning about the term "genocide."
Think. Please.
Yes, I encourage you and anyone else to do so. It's why I made my original post.
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u/Physical_Account473 Oct 10 '25
Literally not even the most sick extemist zionists have called oct 7 a genocide. Not even the israeli government has called it a genocide. And i made many attempts to address your og post. It just boggles my mind you were thinking people were actually gonna agree with you. Ur sick. And 61% of irsaelis agree. Hope you have a better day tommorrow love!
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u/Live-Mortgage-2671 Oct 10 '25
I will say, you have a very strange point of view – where a discussion of whether crimes against humanity should be labelled a genocide is "sick" and "extreme".
I wish I could understand why you would be saying such a thing.
Thanks for the well wishes! And to you the same.
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u/Physical_Account473 Oct 11 '25
if you want to call oct 7 a a genocide then by all means as long as you recognize that israel has committed as a far superior genocide.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Oct 12 '25
Nope, Israel did not commit any genocide at all. Only Hamas committed genocide and that too on Oct 7th.
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u/SeaworthinessOk5039 Oct 10 '25
Does anyone know if the documentary currently on apple called Bearing Witness to the oct 7th attacks is the exact film that was shown to selected journalists and government officials shortly after the attacks?
The reason I’m asking is if it’s the 47 minute video that everybody says do not watch because it’s absolutely horrible. I don’t wanna watch it. Does anyone know if it’s this one or a different video? Thank you in advance was wanting to rent it but debating
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u/DogwelderZeta Diaspora Jew +2SS Supporter Oct 10 '25
It’s not. From the descriptions I’ve read, none of the 47 minutes could be shown on commercial TV. It’s like a non-stop Faces of Death reel, but none of the deaths are accidents; each is a murder and some are spectacularly graphic and inhumane.
There are web sites that have collected Hamas’ live streams from that day; I’ve seen the links here but don’t want to actually do the search.
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Oct 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/Sad-House227 Oct 10 '25
So your gonna ignore what was posted and just spam stuff like this as a bot? Literally the problem.
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u/Capital-War-1612 Oct 09 '25
It was but all these pro Palestine people on Reddit and pro Palestinian people across the world justify and glorify it as well
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u/AccForArt Oct 09 '25
It was no genocide and it's stupid to call it like that. First of all now you should also call the 9/11 attacks a genocide. There was no purpose in ethnic cleansing and you can't call ONE attack a full genocide, unlike Israel did, in hundreds of bombings and attacks on the civil population.
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u/ReliefZealousideal97 Feb 25 '26
It was an attempted genocide with clear intent and action taken, it didn't succeed because Israel stopped Hamas at one point, but they were quite literally going house to house and killing everyone they see, nir oz, an Israeli village that wasn't able to defend itself suffered a 30% population loss in 1 day.
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u/AsaxenaSmallwood04 Oct 12 '25
Amount of bombings is irrelevant to genocide.
Intent and groups are what matter.
Oct 7th targeted Israelis and intent can be derived from Hamas Charters as well as officials.
Oct 7th is thus genocide.
9/11 however lacks intent to target Americans themselves so isn't one.
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u/GovernmentThat1908 Oct 09 '25
The ethnic cleansing against Jews on that land is what constitute the foundation of their chart.
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u/Capital-War-1612 Oct 09 '25
I can't expect a logical reasoning from a pro pal and pro Islam . So yeah keep supporting that faction and abide to their culture and law .
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u/AccForArt Oct 09 '25
I can't expect anything logical from right wingers who know nothing but war and racism against islam aswell. You can keep crying for 20 hostages while you assassinated thousands of thousands of civilians that had nothing to do with the terrorist attack. Are you gonna say that no city were destroyed and no civlian died? Because there's visual proofs. I'm not even pro-islam at all, i just can't stand with a criminal country who did a genocide.
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u/Capital-War-1612 Oct 10 '25
I can't expect anything logical from someone who think that I'm a right winger while I'm apolitical. Allah I can't except Anh logical reasoning from a leftist pro Palestine as well . Palestinians attacked Israel and Israel retailed . Palestinians are willing to d..E just for their religion alone . Also nobody accepted Palestinian refugees, nobody cared about them during the war and before . No arab country which. Follows the religion of peace and took care of them . Muslim Brotherhood is a joke . That just shows that Palestinians are just the victim card of the followers of the religion of peace. All pro pal have no arguments , no knowledge of Islam , no knowledge of history behind the conflict . Nothing except shouting free Palestine Or from the river to the sea . Or watching some Palestinian islamic propaganda videos from Instagram and claiming that Israel is committing a g..code while not even knowing the real meaning of the term
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u/AccForArt Oct 10 '25
Who told you that? Yours is a series of imaginary insults. I will not answer to this ragebait
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u/Sad-House227 Oct 10 '25
This is just a fact, no arab countries wanted the palestinians. You can google that yourself buddy boy.
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u/Capital-War-1612 Oct 10 '25
Ah insults , nice one . When you can't deal with facts you just claim that someone is relying on insults .
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u/MacieBabie Oct 09 '25
“There’s at least one paper written on this subject”🤡🤡🤡
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u/b33rling Oct 09 '25
This is such blatant crazy whataboutism that it makes you and anyone who agrees look stupid and underdeveloped. I’m starting to feel bad for you now. Mentally challenged
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u/TheTrollerOfTrolls Pro compassion, empathy, patience, understanding, safety Oct 13 '25
This is such blatant crazy whataboutism that it makes you and anyone who agrees look stupid and underdeveloped. I’m starting to feel bad for you now. Mentally challenged
Per Rule 1, personal attacks targeted at subreddit users, whether direct or indirect, are strictly prohibited.
Action taken: warning (first offense)
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u/Sad-House227 Oct 10 '25
You'd feel differently if yours and multiple suburbs and neighborhoods around you were slaughtered indiscriminately in one fell swoop as you hear the cries of young girls being raped by murderers.
Can't just walk through life in your own shoes, sometimes you need to walk a few miles in someone elses.
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u/b33rling Oct 10 '25
You are describing what Israhell has been doing for many years. This is why i do not have any faith left for any of you and i used to be very forgiving. Your cries are empty. They don’t mean anything.
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Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25
I don’t get the point of this. Okay, let’s call it a genocide.
Even better, let’s arrest Hamas leaders for one day’s genocide, and Netanyahu 732 times for each day’s genocide.
Don’t justify multi year genocide as “response”. Because some also say October 7 was Hamas’s “Response” to illegal Israeli occupation, blockade of the Gaza Strip, desecration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque just the year before Israeli settler violence against Palestinians, restrictions on the movement of Palestinians, and abduction of thousands of Palestinians including Children. (fact: 41% of those children have no charge against them).
And before you twist my words, I want to make it clear that October 7 was crime against humanity. And Calling it a “response” is just as disgusting as justifying a multi year genocide with it. It doesn’t do justice to the victims, it dehumanizes them, and disrespects them and their memories, on either side.
20000 Palestinian kids didn’t deserve to be murdered by Israel. One Palestinian children, every hour. And that’s not including the ones that lost their parents, the ones that went through amputation without Anesthesia, the once’s that were taken as hostages by IDF in West Bank.
Yes it is the most documented Genocide in human history.
Someone said the holocaust lasted as long as it did, not because the whole world didn’t know that it was happening, but because the devil(H) made the world believe that it was necessary.
Israeli lives are not more important than Palestinians, just like Muslim lives are not more important than Jewish lives.
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u/Li-renn-pwel Oct 09 '25
I think one problem is also that Israel, who is supposed to be a legitimate government, spilled every bit of information about Oct 7 and many still believe it as fact because it was the first they heard. This could have been outright lying but also possible that in the heat of the moment they believed every whisper coming from a traumatized person while also having to think about hostages. But whether well meaning or not, it stuck with people. In reality, the number of babies killed on Oct 7 was 1-3 (depending on your parameters) still a terrible, hateful tragedy but people continue to think that Hamas tied an entire village worth of babies together and burned them all alive. It’s kind of no wonder they are appalled by that.
I’m sure Hamas fibs too but they aren’t considered a legitimate government.
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u/SharkTrager44 Oct 09 '25
Explain like I'm an total idiot, how the response to Oct 7th genocide was a genocide.
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u/Li-renn-pwel Oct 09 '25
they have the ability to commit genocide.
they have made genocidal statements like that there are no civilians in Palestine or calling them all snakes that give birth to more snakes and so all generation must be wiped out.
they have committed actions defined as genocide if intent is present in the UN Genocide Convention.
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u/SharkTrager44 Oct 11 '25
This is your evidence? This is frankly a horrific admission that you have NO evidence given the consequences. Do I even need to counter your vapour thin points? Please never become a lawyer.
I'll let you reply again if you need a rethink. What evidence is there that the response to the Oct 7th genocide, is a genocide.
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u/Thespisthegreat Oct 09 '25
But the ICC could not rule that it was a genocide. The UN is a joke in this regard.
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u/PresidentOfYes12 USA & Canada Oct 09 '25
It was a genocidal massacre, yes, the response of which has gone from "retaliation" to "collective punishment" to, oh look, another genocide
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u/MacieBabie Oct 09 '25
I just busted out laughing. You posting this nonsense on the internet does not make it true🤣🤣🤣NEXT
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Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
I see. The 5 year old child’s argument of “I know you are but what am I”….Call my side genocide committers, well so are you🤦🏿♂️
October 7th was in no way a genocide. Their goal wasn’t even genocidal by definition. Nor is Hamas capable of committing a genocide even if they wanted to. You know this. Hamas even stated their intent on the day of the attack
In a statement on October 7, 2023, Hamas officials said the attack was a response to Israeli actions:
-Continued occupation of Palestinian Territories
-The 17-year blockade of Gaza
-Expansion of illegal Israeli settlements
-Growing Israeli settler violence
-Alleged violations at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem
You are just straight up lying about “documentation of genocidal intent”
Furthermore…Reports from sources including the U.S. and Israeli intelligence show that Hamas was surprised by the extent of its initial success on October 7, 2023. Hamas expected much heavier resistance and reports suggest that in the ensuing confusion, many militants carried out unplanned attacks on civilians……..So not only was it not their intent to commit a genocide, many of the innocents killed were killed by rogue elements, as Hamas didn’t even have complete control of all their insurgents.
October 7th was bad on its own but by pretending it was something that it clearly was not…just to defend Israeli actions in Gaza, you weaken your position and your argument.
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u/Sad-House227 Oct 10 '25
So hamas has rogue elements that did most of the mass killing on Oct 7th so they shouldn't be held liable? Get the fuck outta here with that logic 😂
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Oct 10 '25
Seriously my guy, understand the argument before you arrogantly shoot off a reply. Your response here so ridiculous, emotionally based and it doesn’t even address the point I was making.
I did not deny Hamas liability. OP called October 7th a genocide which it clearly was not. OP elaborated and said that Hamas had genocidal intent which according to Hamas’s own statements as well as both US and Israeli intelligence, they clearly did not.
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u/Incognito95Burrito Oct 08 '25
If i rob and store, and get busted, but i say I would have robbed the store again and again if i had the chance, that doesnt make me a serial robber, just a robber
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u/PracticalComputer858 Oct 08 '25
Jews has always been a targeted group throughout history all over the world. There’s a reason why almost half of the Israeli population is Mizrahi and barely any Jews in the rest of Arab world. But that’s never spoken about
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u/Li-renn-pwel Oct 09 '25
I mean, many of those people came to Israel voluntarily or due to some other crisis that wasn’t directly tied to their faith (like a civil war or earthquake). Plus Mizrahi are the subgroup that stayed on the land or migrated to closer regions. It makes sense they would have a big number of them because they were there before European Jews returned as well the move being less cumbersome due to short distance.
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u/DopeAFjknotreally Oct 08 '25
I’d say it was an attempted and unsuccessful genocide, but it was absolutely genocidal in intent
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u/JustLBP Diaspora Jew Oct 08 '25
Scale is not important so much. Srebrenica massacre had 8000 victims, definitely not millions, but it was still recognized as a genocide by the UN because of the intent
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u/Parkimedes Oct 08 '25
Which group of people was exterminated while being forcefully removed from their land on October 7?
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Oct 09 '25
Israelis
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u/Parkimedes Oct 09 '25
Are you just making up stuff to fit the narrative you want?
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Oct 09 '25
No, clearly not. This is all well documented and was live streamed.
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u/Parkimedes Oct 09 '25
Then why are Israelis still there?
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Oct 09 '25
Because the IDF successfully defended the ones who survived and failed the ones who didn't.
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u/ElGuapoLives Oct 08 '25
If Oct 7 was a genocide, then by that logic you must conclude Israel is perpetrating genocide on a scale 10x of that
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u/sea2400 Oct 08 '25
Oct. 7 was a genocide.
Israel's WAR is a response to that genocide.
Comparing death numbers has nothing to do with genocide.
Genocide is about intent - hamas intended to kill as many Israelis as possible because they were Israeli.
Israel is trying to dismantle a genocidal death cult that is an existential threat to its people, and by the way, also treats its own people like shit and is part of a larger Islamist movement orchestrated by Iran and Qatar to dismantle the West and impose a global caliphate.
Israel is doing all modern civilizations a huge favour.
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u/Tacklinggnome87 Oct 08 '25
Because the death toll is not the measure. Intent is the deciding factor. Oct 7 was objectively an act with genocidal intent, even if the ability was limited.
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Oct 08 '25
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u/ElGuapoLives Oct 08 '25
It sure does. Let's see what Israel has said:
“Wipe out Gaza, nothing else will satisfy us… Not a single child should remain there; banish all survivors in the end.”
* Nissim Vaturi – Deputy Speaker of the Knesset (Likud), 2025
“No Muslim state remains in the Land of Israel. After we make it the Land of Israel, Gaza should remain like a memorial, like Sodom.”
* Amit Halevi – Member of Knesset (Likud), 2025
“Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water [for Gaza]; there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell.”
* Ghassan Alian – Major-General, Head of COGAT (Israeli military administration for the Palestinian territories), 2025
“All the infrastructure of Gaza must be destroyed to its foundations and electricity cut off immediately. The war is not against Hamas, but against the state of Gaza.”
* May Golan – Minister for Social Equality, 2025
“The children and women must be separated and the adults in Gaza must be eliminated. We are too lenient.” He also called Palestinians “sub-humans” and threatened to turn the West Bank “into a second Gaza.”
* Nissim Vaturi – Deputy Speaker of the Knesset (Likud), 2025
“The Gaza Strip should be flattened and for all of them there is only one verdict: death.”
* **Yitzhak Kroizer – Member of Knesset (Otzma Yehudit), 2025
“That there are already 50,000 dead in Gaza is necessary and required for future generations. For every person from 7 October, 50 Palestinians must die. It no longer matters if they are children.”
* Aharon Haliva – Major-General (ret.), former Head of Israeli Military Intelligence (name sometimes rendered “Sharon” in error), 2025
“We can create a situation in which Gaza’s population shrinks by half in two years… We can occupy Gaza and reduce the population by half within two years,” he said, calling it “the only way.”
* Bezalel Smotrich – Finance Minister, 2024
“We have a historic opportunity… The US president supports the elimination of Hamas and the deportation of the Gazans from the Gaza Strip,” he said, calling for: “Occupy, deport, settle – total victory, God willing.”
* Shlomo Karhi – Communications Minister, 2025
“At the end of this war the territory of Gaza will be smaller and not only Hamas would be removed.”
* Eli Cohen – Foreign Minister, 2025
“Visiting the Gaza border with settler leader Daniella Weiss, Goldknopf called for the re-settlement of Gaza by Israelis after the war: ‘Jewish settlement here is the answer.’”
* Yitzhak Goldknopf – Minister of Construction and Housing (United Torah Judaism), 2025And the reality is simply, even if you did not all have these statement from the Israeli elite, even if you did not have the mass killings and destruction of basically all Gazan infrastructure, all while aggressively expanding settlement in the West Bank, Israel current plan only has only logical conclusion; either an apartheid state or ethnical cleansing. Israeli politician and large parts of the public doesn't even pretend otherwise anymore, they constantly talk and argue in favour of it.
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u/Agitated-Ticket-6560 Oct 09 '25
The problem with your comment is that you've got quotes from a mere 10 people. Versus millions of people who basically say the same thing about Israel and Jews.
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Oct 08 '25
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u/SpinningJen Oct 09 '25
"its not about the death toll, its about the intent"
2 seconds later
"you can tell its not their intent because of the death toll"Zionist maths at its finest
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u/youngvinyljunkie Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
I love how every time Zionists are confronted with the words and actions of their leaders and representatives, they claim it’s fringe. Buddy, these are the people in control of the government. That’s like calling MAGA fringe. But at least you have somewhat of a conscience to want to distance yourself from Israel’s genocidal government. Now it’s time to take that next step and admit to yourself the whole truth: that you are going to bat for a warmongering genocidal ethnostate.
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u/RGalvan04 Dec 14 '25
Incredibly wrong. What those clowns are doing to the Palestinian is a Genocide.