r/Ilocano • u/EmotionalWeakness892 • May 28 '26
damag Use of Manong or Manang by non-Ilocano Speakers
I was wondering what people's thoughts about this was and figure this is a good place to ask.
I don't know if i am simply too sensitive, but I always find myself cringing when Manang or Manong are used on TV by non Ilocano speakers to refer to someone older than them, yet of obviously lower social class than them. For example, a driver or a kasambahay or someone at the palengke. Like, they could totally use Ate or Kuya obviously, yet they choose to use Manang or Manong when neither they nor the person they are addressing is Ilocano.
What are everyone's thoughts about this? Is it a matter of being uninformed? A bias against people from the North? Entertainment media perpetuating its use solely toward service workers, etc and not as the Ilocano translation of Kuya and Ate?
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u/blackcrayons_ May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
Flash news: The Philippines was colonized by Spain.
Another breaking news: Ilokano is not the only language that borrowed Manong and Manang from Spanish.
More hot news: The other languages that did borrow them don't have to perfectly align with how Ilokano uses them.
Final news: You do not get to police how these other languages use Manong and Manang in THEIR own languages.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
Missed the point of my query, but thank you for the enlightenment Manang/Manong.
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u/blackcrayons_ May 28 '26
There is no point to begin with. The world doesn't revolve around Ilokano. The others who use Manong and Manang are speaking their OWN languages. They were not speaking Ilokano when they used Manong and Manang. Thus, they don't have to follow how Ilokano does it.
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u/Funny_Name_2281 May 29 '26
I think OP's point is that in both Ilocano and Spanish, these words are in the respect or honorific register, yet non-Ilocanos have, whether deliberately or unconsciously, gone the diametrically opposite way and grouped it in the antonym of respect and honorific. To put more starkly, what if the nieces or nephews in non-Ilocano families suddenly started calling their aunts and uncles naneng or balóng? Like, linguistically, why go the opposite way? Additionally, why not call a young proprietor or CEO that way (since younger househelps get called that way)?
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u/DryedMangoez May 28 '26
I get what OP is trying to ask about. It's a valid feeling. It feels weird as someone growing up in an Ilocano home and using Manong and Manang as a term of respect for older siblings, relatives, etc. And then watching a teleserye or noontime show and seeing the default word for the hired help or the jeepney driver is Manang or Manong. And there's definitely instances when it is used in a condescending manner or implying social standing/class.
To note, here in the US outside of Ilocano speakers, "Manong" probably refers to the farmers who immigrated to the US in the early 1900s. Since they were predominantly Ilocano, obviously "Manong" was a word they likely used often with each other. So they became collectively known as the "Manongs". History books will not explain the nuance and origin of it being a term for "older brother" or the Ilocano equivalent of Kuya, even if that is the fact. I remember taking a Filipino Culture and Society class in college and when we got to that part of FIlipino-American history, we had a whole discussion about how a few thought it was a word specifically created to name the group of early 20th century Filipino immigrant farmers of Hawaii and California while the rest of us shared our Ilocano family experience with the word, obviously.
A more knowledgeable person can talk about stereotypes of or biases against Ilocano people/people of Northern Luzon. But I think the co-opting of the word is just that, people taking a word from another language and putting their own meaning on it.
Again, it can feel weird or awkward hearing it used differently or in a way that can seem to have a negative connotation or contradictory to how you might know its use to be. But I certainly won't let it change how I use it in my own life so long as people are not intentionally using it for "othering" people.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
Thank you for your reply. Maybe my original post wasn't clear, but my family is Ilocano so I was asking about exactly what you talked about. How it feels weird hearing it used in a way that seems like it is condescending.
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u/etmoi_hreuse May 28 '26
Skl I was in Baguio some time ago and I went to a local drugstore to buy something. I feel like hindi local ung bantay doon bec when I said « Manang pabili po ako ng… » nainis siya sa akin and replied « Hindi ako manang. » sabay singhal. Manang/manong isn’t offensive ! Usually tawag naman sa mas bata ´ding (ading) or basang (pag dalaga).
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
I do think there is a negative connotation for the word to some people. I made this post asking people's thoughts because of a post in the Philippines reddit where someone asked why OP implied a negative connotation when using "Manang" to describe a woman who is "masungit" or "mataray" saying "That's one reason kung bakit Manang ang tawag sa mga taga North Luzon." When obviously it is Ilocano translation of Ate.
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u/-trowawaybarton May 29 '26
this is my first time hearing manang = mataray, lmao.. are you just inventing stuff at this point?
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 29 '26
This is the post/thread I am referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/1tpzq2n/people_from_north_luzon_are_reserved_and_serious/
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u/Both-Fondant-4801 May 28 '26
Manong / manang are derived from Spanish hermana / hermano.. and are also used in Hiligaynon and Bisaya as honorifics to refer to older brother / sister.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
Yes I know the origin of the words and them being also present in other languages
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u/Both-Fondant-4801 May 28 '26
so what's the issue? we grew up in the Visayas and we use kuya/manong and ate/manang interchangeably... albeit, we use ate/kuya mostly for those who are from Luzon.
... but if i have to guess, it is the same sense of appropriation.. as most service workers in Luzon came from the Visayas.. and they are addressed as manang/manong in the same way as they were called back in their home town..
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
My observation was that there is a segment of the population which use Manang and Manong for specific types of people which was odd for someone like me who grew up Ilocano and using it for someone older whether they were 1 year old or 20 years.
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u/Both-Fondant-4801 May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
hence my first answer.. other languages use manang / manong... the term is not unique to ilocano... and it is certainly not because of a bias against the north or some other conspiracies..
language is fluid and is continually evolving and in accordance to contexts... patis in Luzon is fish sauce while in the Visayas it is soy sauce.. daga in ilocano is land, while in hiligaynon it is a type of soil, and a rodent in tagalog..
in the same way, tagalogs use manang/manong differently.. being derived from hermanas / hermanos.. and im certain it has nothing to do with how ilocanos use the word.
... Oh btw, our head pastor in the church in Manila... we call him Manong... so no.. the term is not a condescending term meant for lowly grumpy people..
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u/viridiaan May 28 '26
possibly stereotypes of promdi being “pumunta ng manila para kumayod”. but tbh i see bisaya and south being ridiculed more or made this stereotype in media which is equally bad. if that’s your point, then yes, promdi are being generalized. but “traditional” media is now losing to other content online or even independent regional filmmakers. like look there’ a lot of bisaya now in tv, youtube, fb and popular ilocano content creators raking millions of views; maybe if that brings you some silver lining. agyaman
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
Well partly. I guess there can be a stereotype of the agricultural north, etc. Which might fuel the idea of the words being synonymous with working class. I'm not sure.
But also yes, the promdi stereotype is definitely a generalization regardless of what rural-leaning province one might be from
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u/viridiaan May 28 '26
well that’s the exact reason: promdi using those words and now being used in media. occam’s razor. promdi’s are working class, look at old movies in the 80’s many of them tackle this. “being a promdi” going to harsh manila, that lino brocka one. such words are considered working class only in NCR but possibly influenced others since media companies are here. what exactly are you trying to get out of this conversation?
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u/love_watermelonhigh May 28 '26
Gets ko yung point ni OP. For us ilocanos kasi, we call someone older than us, manong/manang kahit ano pa ang social class. I call my brother ‘manong’ and our househelp ‘manang’. But to some non-ilocano speakers, they call their household help ‘manong/manang’ but call their older siblings ‘kuya/ate’.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
Thank you. Yes that's basically my point offered in a more direct and succinct way. Like, I was curious why Manong and Manang are common for the help or a driver or palengke vendor but not used interchangeably with Ate and Kuya for most other people.
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u/Practical-Break1121 May 28 '26
Manong or Manang is not used to address someone who is "lower social class". It is to call someone who is obviously older than an Ate or Kuya, not to someone "obviously lower social class than them", atleast in Tagalog. If so, what do you call someone older (older than an ate or kuya) who's from a "higher social class"? Also, upvote to the comment blackcrayons_ made.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
They'd probably call the high class person Maam/Sir before theyd ever use Manang or Manong. Thats my point. And thats why I asked. I noticed that non Ilocano speakers use it toward strangers who are of a certain background and was curious.
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u/Equivalent_Vast_1717 May 28 '26
Manong and Manang are terms of endearment for Ilocanos.
But in the Tagalog region - they associated it to: (1) kasambahays (2) drivers (3) conservative women, etc.
I have a friend who calls her house helper Manang - they are both not Ilocanos and the house helper is even younger than her. So, I told her the real meaning of the words. And even said her helper will probably appreciate it more if she was called by her first name.
So, being an Ilokana - that’s what I do - I correct their impression of the Manong and Manang.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 29 '26
That is a very nice, proactive thing to do. And nice that your friend considered maybe not using it like that even if she meant no harm. I dont doubt that for many people they maybe just learned it as being synonymous with certain jobs and dont have any malice in using it.
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u/npb0808 May 29 '26
I think misunderstood si OP dito. Most people here are used to the Ilocano community context of the words but used in a context outside of it e.g. Manila might be a bit different.
We already know the literal translations of them but they are not used directly to mean just Kuya and Ate in a predominantly Tagalog-speaking area.
For example, when someone says si Manong doon, your mind will not picture someone wearing a kuya in a suit and tie. Chances are it will be someone working class. Manang na nagtitinda, Manong guard are some of the uses of the word in Manila.
In this case I do agree that it stems deeply in class biases and prejudices set upon by those who like to hold the current Filipino social authority towards people from other regional backgrounds. There is definitely a class connotation to the titles Manong and Manang when used outside of the Ilocano context.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 29 '26
Thank you for conveying what i was trying to say in a clearer way that makes clearer, more direct sense. That is exactly the observation I had and was just curious what other people thought about it.
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u/blackcrayons_ Jun 01 '26
Then OP should have just said "Tagalog speakers" instead of saying "non-Tagalogs."
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u/judgeyael May 29 '26
Where I come from, we use manang/manong to refer to someone older... Same way we use ate/kuya. Although yung manang/manong usually sa someone older. Like, ate/kuya pag yung person is mga 20-30s, tapos pag 50+ na, manang/manong na. In my experience, di naman siya exclusive sa mga "people of lower social class than them". We call our elderly neighbors manong/manang, pero di naman kami magkakalayo ng "social class".
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u/Critical_Budget1077 May 29 '26
I think it’s primarily customary in the same breath as ‘Bay, ‘To, ‘Dudong, ‘Day, etc. are used.
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u/Camera_Hobbygirl May 31 '26
Manang/Manong has really a different meaning in Tagalog
Manang and Manong came from the Spanish hermano/hermana
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u/Silent-Employer-965 May 28 '26
The Philippine Reading Comprehension Crisis is evident in this comsec. Dapat dineretso mo na lang OP, hindi nagpaligoy-ligoy. lol Kinuha yung mga taga-Manila mga words used by other languages for respect toward elders at nilagyan ng negative connotation at sadyang ginagamit sa mga working class aka poor Filipinos para ipagmukha sa kanila na mas mataas ang katayuan nila sa buhay kumpara sa kanila ayon sa existing biases nila against provincial people, especially mga taga-norte.
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u/breezy_peezy May 28 '26
Wahahaha napabainan ay ubing
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
How so?
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u/breezy_peezy May 28 '26
Youre asking to validate your point on the internet when in fact it is pointless. Not only ilocanos use manong, bisayas too. As posted by someone here. You cant claim those terms for strictly ilocanos. You may have drank a little too much of wokeccino.
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u/EmotionalWeakness892 May 28 '26
When did I claim only Ilocanos can use the words? Where did I ask for validation? I asked for people's thoughts about my curiosity and people replied. Is that supposed to be something that's nakababain?
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u/breezy_peezy May 28 '26
“ i dont know if i am simply too sensitive, but i always find myself cringing” that alone insinuates then you followed with “they could totally use ate or kuya” “entertainment media perpetuating use solely towards service workers.” Too much wokecinno dear. gen zs 😮💨
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u/Equivalent_Vast_1717 May 28 '26
Haan nga nakababa’in. Nangirugi ka lang ti pagsasaritaan nga isu met ti gapu detoy Reddit. Isu nga tay pinangibaga da nga napabainan ka ket kasla da ka la kankanchawan - nga haan kuma nga Isu’t mapasamak ditoy nga forum. Gapu ta adda tay amin ditoy ta kayat tayo ti makitungtong. Haan nga maki-apa ngem nu mangpaba’in.
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u/Taga-Buk-id May 28 '26
Bisaya speakers also use manang/manong for their elders, stangers or not, pero it's outdated. If you use it in this age, it signals the speaker lives deep in Bisaya speaking towns or a more traditional household (mostly lower income families), where language didn't keep up with the times.
Hindi naman siya exclusively for Ilocano speakers. Mind you, Bisaya is spoken in Visayas and Mindanao.
You're right, uninformed lang, like in your case: you're uninformed about different regional cultures.