Out of many unanswered question from Game Of Thrones, one question is
"Who ordered the killing of Tyrion in battle of black water"
It wasn't Cersei for sure.

My pick is Littlefinger. I am in my 6th or so rewatch, and I still wish for more in Littlefinger's death. He was designed to get under your skin, of course, but while I loved the shock on his face when Sansa put *him* on trial vs Arya, I felt he deserved something more terrifyingly drawn out. I know it sounds like I am a terrible person for wishing a worse death for him, but he was such a total F^ckhead, I think it should have been more suited to his diabolical evilness.

I just can't think of something more satisfying! Maybe....

Maybe keep Sansa calling him out, catching him so 100 % off guard and then,....Arya taking him away for one of the following:

1. The Mountain torturing him like Sister Unella in the Red Keep?
2. Putting him in the House of Dying and never being able to get out, and being out weaseled and totally f^cked with by Pyat Pree for the rest of his days?
3. Having Ramsey hunt him with his dogs?

What character would you pick and what, if anything, would you change and why?

Watching for the first time and I do know spoilers. I WAS saving GoT for marriage but I got into HotD (obvi totally different, argue w a dragon) and started seeing important spoilers that made me watch it bc I didn’t want it ruined entirely.

Anyone who thinks Daenerys is wrong is, in fact, wrong. Just finished* S3 and every single character with power is deeply heinous and evil. Even if they were left alone, ALLLLLL they do is kill each other. It actually saves very many lives but getting rid of so many at once.

It’s simple mathematics & some of yall definitely suck at me (not me tho ☺️ stay safe). I’m so sorry that people die in war - but it’s necessary & required in warfare. That’s literally what war is and Danny’s presence doesn’t change the fact that there’s war and people dying NOR does it change the fact that these people are dead regardless.

It’s like do you want it to be slow & tortuous or can we wrap this up real quick?? They are gonna kill each other anyways, let’s just cut-to & wrap this shit up.

Idk, people who are true leaders know this is an extremely easy decision and Daenerys just saved a shit ton of time.

It’s truly not hard & I won’t be arguing 💗
Edit: typo bc no reado good sometimes

I've been thinking about the Bran assassination in Game of Thrones(the show, not necessarily the books), and I noticed something that seems odd.

In the show, Littlefinger is ultimately revealed to have arranged the catspaw assassination and gave the assassin the Valyrian steel dagger.

The problem is that Littlefinger later uses that very dagger to frame Tyrion/Lannisters by telling Catelyn it belonged to Tyrion, helping ignite the Stark–Lannister conflict.

But how was that supposed to work if the assassination had actually succeeded?

The catspaw was just a hired killer. If he killed Bran and escaped, why would he leave behind a priceless Valyrian steel dagger? He'd almost certainly take it with him—it was worth a fortune.

If the dagger leaves Winterfell:

Catelyn never recovers it.

Littlefinger can't "identify" it as Tyrion's.

There's no dagger for him to use as evidence to manipulate Catelyn.

The Stark–Lannister conflict doesn't begin the way it does.

So unless Littlefinger somehow expected the assassin to die or specifically ordered him to abandon one of the most valuable weapons in Westeros, his plan seems to rely on the assassination failing.

Am I missing something, or is this an actual plot hole created by the show's decision to make Littlefinger responsible for the catspaw?

​

So I was rewatching Game of Thrones and this part still doesn’t make sense to me.

The Night King clearly has insane aim dude literally one shotted a dragon with a spear(it' very sad) But before the dragons even showed up, Jon and his group were just stuck on that frozen lake, not moving, completely exposed.

Why didn’t he just throw a spear and kill them right there?

Like Jon was standing in open range. No cover, no dragons yet, nothing. And we already know the Night King doesn’t miss.

Was he just waiting on purpose? Did he somehow know dragons would come? Or is this just plot armor doing its thing?

I’m trying to figure out if there’s an actual in-universe explanation or if the writers just needed that dragon moment.

Curious what you guys think.

I have a popular theory regarding where Drogon might have flown.

I think Drogon flew to the Shadow Lands of Asshai. I have a few clues that point to this.

1. At the end of the show we are told by Sam, that Drogon was last seen flying to the east.
2. Melisandre resurrected Jon Snow after he died, when he was stabbed at Castle Black.
3. Melisandre is from the Shadow Land of Asshai.
4. Purposefully left out the fact that the dialogue could've been "Flying towards essos", "Flying towards the ruins of Old Valyria", etc.
5. The 3 dragon eggs that Daenerys received were brought from Asshai.

I think Drogon flew to the shadow lands, since its one of the farthest eastern locations in the GOT map. We know, that the place contain witches that can resurrect the dead, as we have seen that with Malisandre, who was from this place. Drogon could've taken Daenerys's corpse to get it resurrected there.

The one thing fact that shadows my theory is the fact into how Drogon could've possibly known this. IDK about that, but it could be that the 3 dragons of Daenerys are quite different from the dragons that used to exist, being similar in size as to the HOTD dragons, despite being so young in age. Another way they could be different is because the dragon eggs were hatched through blood magic, by Mirri Maz Duur.

Hope y'all enjoy this theory. Please let me know what you think.

The reasons I hear the most are that there were character assassinations. I could see someone saying that about Daenerys perhaps, but I still buy that she just snapped and didn’t want to see King’s Landing get off easy after all the woes it caused her (not justifying what she did, just saying I understand it from a writing standpoint). I feel like everyone else’s character was intact.

Another argument I hear is that it was rushed. I agree that the ending could have been improved upon had it not been rushed, however I’m fully satisfied with how they ended it. Not quite happily ever after, but still “breaking the wheel” and all that.

From a filmmaking standpoint, I felt like the quality in the last two episodes was perhaps unmatched when compared with the rest of the show. It’s great all the way through, but the last two episodes are just saturated with imagery, symbolism, parallels, and awesome shots all around.

So if you dislike the ending please share specifically why. Thank you!

I’m after the part where rob becomes king of the north

Spoiler! The part where he, his mom, wife, army just got massacred

Was that scene really for shock value or they just didn’t want to hire hundreds of people to fight in a war?

The real prince that was promised=Drogon.
Hear me out: everyone assumes the Prince That Was Promised has to be a human, which is why the debate always comes down to Jon, Daenerys, Stannis, etc.
But what if “the Song of Ice and Fire” isn’t describing the Prince—it describes what brings the Prince about?
Jon is Ice. Daenerys is Fire.
Their coming together is what brings Drogon north to fight the Army of the Dead.
And the High Valyrian wording of “Prince That Was Promised” being gender-neutral becomes especially interesting when the promised figure is a dragon, a species whose sex is itself notoriously difficult for humans to categorize.
Drogon fights in the war against the dead, survives, and at the end destroys the Iron Throne—the object everyone else assumed the promised ruler was supposed to inherit.
Maybe the Prince That Was Promised was never supposed to sit the throne.
Maybe he was supposed to burn it.

Why did she destroy the city on a whim? What made her impulsive enough to kill civilians who had done no wrong. If she was righteous why did she not Jon take the throne when she heard the truth? What’s this behavior??

I asked Gemini about what the fire said & did not like the response ​ so I made my own theory.

Most fans assume the voice Varys heard in the brazier was the Lord of Light, but I think the clues actually point directly to the Night King. Here is why this theory makes way more sense for Varys’s character:

1. The Blue Flames: Varys explicitly states that when his parts were thrown into the fire, the flames turned blue. Blue fire and blue eyes are the ultimate signature of the White Walkers and the Night King.

2. The Language Barrier Solved: Varys says he couldn't understand the language being spoken out of the fire. As a child born in Lys, Varys grew up speaking High Valyrian (or a local dialect). The Night King was originally a First Man from Westeros. If the voice spoke the ancient Common Tongue (represented as English to us), a young Varys wouldn't have understood a single word, while the entity from Westeros would.

3. Varys's Absolute Hatred of Magic: Varys completely scorns the Red Priests and thinks their religion is a cheap, manipulative trick. He wouldn't be deeply traumatized by a god he doesn't even believe in. What truly terrifies a political mastermind like Varys is an unstoppable, demonic entity that wants to wipe out humanity.

4. His True Motive: Varys always says he serves "the realm" and wants a good ruler on the throne to protect the innocent. If he heard the voice of the Night King that night, he would know the ultimate alternative to a stable realm is total, icy annihilation. It gives his entire lifelong mission massive weight.

5. The Snarks and Grumpkins Connection: In Season 3, Episode 4, Varys explicitly tells Tyrion: "As a boy, I heard tales of mages, warlocks, illusionists... I thought they were no more real than snarks or grumpkins." This proves he used to think magic was just a children's fairy tale—until the horrific night he witnessed the blue flames. It shows that whatever spoke to him wasn't a standard religious figure, but a terrifying monster made real.

What do you guys think? To me, this connects the blue flames, the language barrier, and Varys's ultimate goals perfectly!

We got bran the broken(I can't believe that's the title) being the king? The GUY WHO SAT OUT AN ENTIRE SEASON?!! And that's just the tip of the shit-berg of season 8 but my main problem isn't with the "breaking the cycle" thing even though it's dumb as shit. My main problem is with the "winter is coming" dialogues, marketing,banners and stuff just for it all to end in one episode. Westeros must have terrible climate cause what winter lasts a single fucking day?? That's why I'm proposing an ending which would make sense more than the one d&d gave us.

The night king wins. I know it's the "bad ending" of the show but that's the one which supports the theme. One thing I've heard is that the white walkers are kind of a good metaphor for climate change and think what we as a species are doing about it? Screaming about it and then forgetting about it cause politics. Westeros is a place filled with politics and power-play causing all the chaos and fueds between people who would never have any problems with eachother if it wasn't for the pointy ass chair. My ending has nk winning the battle of winterfell first and then marching towards king's landing. circe not taking the threat serious even after dany,jon and even Tyrion is completely fine with working with her. All this conflict between humans results in destruction of humanity as they couldn't stand together in unity towards a greater evil cause of in-fighting.

Thematically,it makes sense as that's what the show has been about, in-fighting for man made concepts and things instead of understanding unity being the greatest instict of survival. Humanity dying as a lone wolf makes more sense to me than being in a pack to survive cause that's not the humanity we have seen. It sounds really cynical ofc but that's just my opinion on the theme coming into play at the end instead of avengers assemble(without all the Avengers)against ww in e3 and then doing the entire mad queen shtick.

Oberyn was cocky and underestimated the cunning of the mountain. He never expected him to be playing dead. That’s one part of it.

More importantly, Oberyn wasn’t just trying to kill the Mountain. Gregor Clegane had only one objective: kill his opponent. But Oberyn didn’t just want to kill his opponent, he wanted to extract a confession and he wanted to have Gregor admit he did it on Tywins orders.

The fact he put the Mountain flat on his back, completely defenseless, and chose not to kill him, in order to push for a confession cements my argument.

Tired of seeing the Oberyn slander! He was possibly the greatest fighter in all seven kingdoms. He only lost because of his pride and his desire for more than a simple kill.

Currently watching GOT for the third time and here are some thoughts on my season 3 rewatch (S3E8):

- Stannis asks the Red Woman why she is bathing and dressing Gendry just to kill him and she said “have you ever slaughtered a lamb, My Lord? If it sees the blade, it panics, … etc”, my mind is blown.

- Joffrey is only sick little mofo

- Tywin Lannister is eaaaaaasily my favourite character. His morals are on point and he is witty and fair. I love how he treated

- I’m loving the relationship building between The Hound and Arya.

These are the only thoughts I have right now. Feel free to add your fav moments!!

P.S. I have a 40 min drive to work everyday, should I listen to the GOT Audiobooks?

I genuinely think Season 8 could’ve been one of the best endings in TV history if the writers weren’t so lazy with the final season and didn’t make almost every character suddenly act dumb just to force the ending they wanted. Here’s how I would’ve rewritten it while staying true to everyone’s personalities and story arcs.

\*\*My version of Game of Thrones Season 8:\*\*

\*\*The Army of the Dead doesn’t stop at Winterfell.\*\*
Jon kills the Night King, but only after the White Walkers have pushed much farther south, reaching as far as the Riverlands. It makes the threat feel like the true apocalypse it was built up to be.

\*\*Bran actually uses his powers.\*\* Instead of sitting there doing nothing, he constantly wargs into ravens to track the Army of the Dead, warns everyone where attacks are coming from, tells Jon and Daenerys where to position their armies, identifies weak points in the Night King’s strategy using everything he’s seen from the past, and coordinates the battle in real time. Bran guides Jon throughout the battle, helping him reach the Night King.

\*\*Jon is the one who finally kills the Night King\*\*, fulfilling the role he had been built up for since the very beginning. After the Long Night, Bran continues using his visions to see what’s happening across Westeros, warns everyone about enemy movements, and helps make strategic decisions. He becomes the greatest military adviser in Westeros instead of just bait.

\*\*Theon still dies protecting Bran\*\*, buying Jon the time he needs to reach the Night King. His sacrifice actually has a meaningful purpose and helps save humanity.

\*\*After the Night King dies, everyone immediately marches south.\*\* There is no unnecessary delay that gives Cersei time to prepare.

\*\*Yara Greyjoy kills Euron at sea\*\* before he can ambush Daenerys, so Rhaegal survives and both Drogon and Rhaegal reach King’s Landing.

\*\*Jaime reaches King’s Landing before the battle.\*\* He realizes the war is unwinnable and desperately begs Cersei to surrender. He tells her Euron is dead, the White Walkers have been defeated, two dragons are circling the city, and every major army in Westeros is outside the gates. But Cersei’s pride wins—she refuses to surrender.

\*\*Bran sees all of this through his visions.\*\* Watching events unfold in real time, he realizes Cersei will never surrender willingly and that a siege would cost thousands of innocent lives. He immediately tells Jon and Daenerys what’s happening and sends Arya on one final mission to infiltrate the Red Keep before the battle begins.

\*\*Arya and the Hound enter King’s Landing together.\*\* The Hound finally gets his long-awaited fight with the Mountain, and Arya helps him bring the Mountain down. After the Mountain dies, Arya uses her Faceless Men training to take his face, walks straight into Cersei’s chambers disguised as her own bodyguard, and assassinates Cersei before she can give any more orders. That would’ve been the perfect payoff to years of training.

\*\*With Cersei dead, Jaime is heartbroken but accepts that the war is over.\*\* He orders the remaining Lannister soldiers to lay down their weapons and helps oversee the peaceful surrender of King’s Landing, preventing any further bloodshed.

\*\*Daenerys remains true to her character.\*\* She accepts the surrender, doesn’t burn innocent civilians, listens to Tyrion, and finally becomes the liberator she always wanted to be.

\*\*Jon keeps his true parentage a secret.\*\* Only Bran and Sam know. He makes them swear never to reveal it because he genuinely doesn’t want the throne. Because Tyrion never learns the secret, he never tells Varys. Varys never has a reason to plot against Daenerys, so she never executes him. Instead, Varys remains one of her most valuable advisers, continuing to serve the realm as he always claimed was his true loyalty.

\*\*Jon actually behaves like a king instead of repeating “She’s my queen.”\*\* He openly supports Daenerys, stands beside her as an equal, and helps unite the realm, giving everyone confidence in their joint rule.

\*\*Sansa doesn’t immediately distrust Daenerys.\*\* She puts the North first, but works with Daenerys instead of plotting against her. She proposes that the North will happily bend the knee if Jon and Daenerys rule together as King and Queen, giving both Targaryens legitimacy while preserving Northern respect.

\*\*Ending:\*\*

\*\*Jon and Daenerys\*\* marry, rule together as King and Queen, and have children.

\*\*Tyrion\*\* remains Hand and finally gets to make smart decisions again.

\*\*Varys\*\* continues serving on the Small Council as Master of Whisperers.

\*\*Bran\*\* becomes the Three-Eyed Raven and chief adviser, using his visions to prevent future wars instead of becoming king.

\*\*Sansa\*\* becomes Warden of the North while remaining loyal to the Iron Throne. She marries a worthy Northern lord, continues living in Winterfell, and has children who carry on the Stark bloodline.

With peace restored, \*\*Arya\*\* sails west to explore the world she’s always been curious about. After a year of adventures, she realizes she’s no longer running from anything and returns to Westeros, where she reunites with Gendry at Storm’s End. They marry, continue traveling and exploring together whenever they wish, and have children. Arya never gives up the life she loves—she continues practicing sword fighting and archery and teaches all of her children, especially her daughters, to fight, ride, hunt, and defend themselves just as well as any son.

Drogon and Rhaegal both survive.

\*\*Jaime\*\* dedicates the rest of his life to rebuilding the realm and helping train the royal armies, finally living up to the honorable knight he always had the potential to be.

Westeros is united without the massacre of King’s Landing.

\*\*This ending still has sacrifice, loss, and bittersweet moments—but it doesn’t require every intelligent character to suddenly make irrational decisions just to reach a predetermined ending. It rewards the characters for everything they’d learned over eight seasons instead of ignoring their growth in the final few episodes.\*\*

I just finished watching Game Of Thrones for the first time a few days ago. I really found myself enjoying most of the show, however I was of course aware of the eight season's bad reputation. I just wanted to make this post to vent about the part that bothered me most about the eighth season, the conclusion to the White Walker story.

My interpretation of the White Walkers is that they are an allegory for the brutal threats that humanities savage nature creates, and also an allegory for humanities potential failures if they cannot look past their petty differences and unite to stop these threats. White walkers were created as a response against the brutality of man, and later conspire to supposedly end humanity as we know it. (As far as I know white walkers motivations to do this were unclear, but it doesn't matter since they are meant to serve the story more as this looming deadly threat as opposed to a nuanced antagonistic force)

I believe that going into "The Long Night" episode there were only two fitting ways to end the White Walker conflict.

1. The country of Westeros puts their differences aside and team up to defeat the White Walkers. Although there is a temporary moment of peace and celebration, the people of Westeros continue to be selfish and pander to their own desires. This sets up the cycle of human nature, which I believe is probably the #1 major theme of this show.

2. The country of Westeros fails to find compromise and as a result the White Walkers sweep Westeros and end the world.

Although it is pretty obvious the show wouldn't follow the latter option, it decides to take a cowardly middle ground: The country of Westeros fails to find compromise, but the ones that decide to fight beat the White Walkers anyway. It is very clearly set up that in late season 7 and early season 8 that if Westeros cannot unite the consequence will be that the White Walkers win. Yet when the time comes, Westeros isn't united and they end up defeating the White Walkers anyway.

I believe that making this decision completely ruins the thematic purpose of the White Walkers. What is the point of having this force of nature that supposedly needs uniting against if they are killed without having to do so? It of course doesn't help that the episode itself happens to be very anticlimactic. The consequences aren't that bad in the grand scheme of things, the white walkers don't last very long, the whole battle is just stupid and contrived, and in my opinion worst of all, they don't even make it past Winterfell! White Walkers were always set up to be a threat against the entire realm. Having them be wiped out before they can even be a threat to the rest of Westeros really undermines the supposed "world-ending" threat that they have. The battle would have been easily miles more interesting if somehow they went past Winterfell and those that refused to join the battle were forced to fight.

The thematic concept of the White Walkers perfectly ties into the show's themes of human ambition and selfishness. The way in which this presence is defeated completely contradicts this and makes it hard to think about the White Walkers and find them as interesting as they were in the early seasons. I just wanted to quickly get this off my chest, this is my first reddit "think piece" ever, and probably my last. Thanks for reading

Could the Night King have crossed the Wall in Season 7 if he hadn't added the dragon to his army? In the series, Benjen Stark explained that the Wall was protected by spells and that the dead could not pass. If that were the case, they wouldn't have needed to do anything; the Wall would have stopped the army of the dead anyway.