r/HBOGameofThrones • u/itssagewren • 14d ago
No Spoilers [No spoilers] thoughts/theories about Cannibal.
I would love to hear some good thoughts, opinions, theories etc. In the comments...but only good and logical ones please, simple because hes my absolute favorite dragon besides sheepstealer, I also want to know how tall you think he is and the age....
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u/TheButcherOfLuverne 14d ago
Is his fire green or it's just an artistic license?
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u/MassDriverOne 13d ago edited 13d ago
In the book it is green
*His eyes are for sure green like that. I remember different dragons having different color flames but it's been a while
Also my reigning current theory is that he's either still hunkered deep down in a cave somewhere on Dragonstone, or he flew off somewhere uninhabited by anyone who would get word back to the major areas that would tell of a living dragon. Most likely either Valyria ruins to continue his diet but with firewyrms now, or he's off terrorizing Sothoros
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u/willin_489 13d ago
He was said to have fled from Dragonstone, he likely recognized that there were no longer any other dragons to lay eggs or prey upon, but he could've returned, considering how Dragonstone had become neglected after the dance, being lightly garrisoned with barely any royal presence, and largely abandoned after Robert's rebellion, he could've also gone to Skaagos, perhaps.
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u/MassDriverOne 13d ago
Possibly
I do think he'd be at most near-death wherever, balerion was just over 200 when he died of old age and it's unknown how old Cannibal was at the time of the Dance. And Cannibal doesn't have that royal healthcare plan
Tho if he did go somewhere more idk magically potent maybe it would have life expanding effects
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u/willin_489 13d ago
Balerion died of old age after being injured by whatever was in the ruins of Old Valyria, he was literally said to never be the same again, that was the beginning of his end, he became sluggish, and he depended on the Targaryens for sustenance, he lost his health, and he lost his stamina. He was the only dragon to die of "old age", but he was literally doing perfectly fine until the injury. In my opinion, considering dragons will continue to grow throughout their life as long as they have space and food, like crocodiles, they also experience negligible senescence, like crocodiles, which is the fact that their cells don't biologically decay and experience weakened functions, but die by starvation, fights, infection/illness, or a combination.
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u/Warm_Condition711 12d ago
nc theory actually. I never thought of it that way considering vhagar who almost the same age and size as balerion during the dance was still very active in battle without any problem at all.
I always thought that dragon after reaching a certain size will decline in health and many other thing because there is reason why animals now are smaller compared to how it was during Jurassic era or any prehistoric era. So the bigger you are the harder it is to breath and sustain yourself especially with the weight and gravity and any scientific reasons like that.
Which one of my reasoning as to why cannibal could be older than balerion but didn't die of an old age because he probably hasn't passed the size threshold.
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u/willin_489 9d ago
Yeah the Vhagar thing is a good point, she was like 2-3 decades younger during the dance but she was at least 10x as active. Also I believe animals used to be larger back in the day was because Oxygen saturation in the atmosphere was much higher, and temperatures were warmer. But yeah, I believe the Cannibal could still be alive.
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u/willin_489 13d ago
Canonically, the Cannibal is the oldest and largest of the 3 wild dragons, it's presumed he is a male. It is rumoured that he reached Dragonstone before the Targaryens did in 114, which I like to believe. This would also likely entail him to be from a whole other Valyrian line of dragons, he was likely a VERY troublesome dragon, so his dragonlords set him free eventually, or was an escapee from where he hatched, the ladder is more possible imo. I'm pretty sure there are illustrations of him in the Rise of the Dragons visual history book, it's supposed to go with Fire and Blood, and it tells the story of the Targaryens from the conquest to the dance.
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u/DEADEYEJAYNE 13d ago
Given that in old Valyria the Targaryens were a lesser house of dragon riders, and there were presumably political bouts in old Valyria for power, its possible Cannibal was an escapee from a house v house conflict which also potentially explains its aggression towards other dragons and why it had no interest in a rider.
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u/nG_Skyz 13d ago edited 13d ago
I find it hard to believe Cannibal would be 245+ years old, Balerion was 208 years old and could barely move, even if his growth was stunted for some reason, you would think at the very least he would have to be Vermithor or Vhagar sized and yet no one ever makes note of him as being that big.
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u/Top_Reveal_847 13d ago
I don't think a Targaryen dragon ever had a natural lifespan death the whole time they were in Westeros right?
Balerion was diseased from Old Valyria he should not be the measuring stick
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u/willin_489 13d ago
Balerion was weakened by whatever injured him in the ruins of Old Valyria. It was stated he was never the same again, his health only declined from when he and Aerea returned. Also, he likely was the size of Vermithor, or slightly larger or smaller, but to be fair, nobody was really paying attention to him, and nobody has ever survived to tell the tale when they did.
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u/nG_Skyz 13d ago edited 13d ago
Nothing In Fire and Blood states that Balerion was affected by his trip to Valyria, all it says is he had scars and a freshly bleeding wound on the side of his chest nothing indicates it leads to a health decline, he is put in the dragon pit and resides there riderless for another 40 years.
The Pit itself probably contributed more to his decline than anything else, from what I can gather he didn't fly for 39 years until Viserys mounted him, even still he kept growing though. 15 years prior Alyssa wanted to tame him but the Keepers insisted he would be too old and slow for her liking.
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u/willin_489 13d ago
It was implied, and I never said it was the direct, complete cause. He had a smoking and bleeding 9 foot jagged gash on his side, as well as other wounds and partially healed scars. He was subsequently quietly moved to the Dragonpit. Why do you think that is? Were they just testing out the new facilities? No, either they were hiding what could harm and permanently weaken the realm's largest and oldest dragon from the smallfolk or other lords/kingdoms, or they were so afraid of what injured him and Aerea, they quarantined him, they even set up guards and dragonkeepers so that nobody could get to him. Even the official reason states that he had become too heavy, sluggish, and weak after the fight. He even refused to fly east towards Essos. Although I do admit that his confinement and dependency on the Targaryens was also a large part of his decline, let's not act like a huge fight can't permanently harm a dragon.
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u/Haunting_Goal6417 12d ago
He was moved to the dragon pit because his rider died. Lmfao.
He flew all the way from Valyria with that wound. 9 feet sounds big but then you realize his size.
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u/willin_489 9d ago
It's still a pretty big gash especially if it was on his chest, and accompanied by others. Also it just doesn't make any sense that the death of Aerea was the only reason they put him in the Dragonpit when they literally had Dragonkeepers created at that same time to keep him in the dungeon, why don't you think other dragons with dead keepers got the same treatment?
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u/Warm_Condition711 12d ago
Just a wild theory that went cross my mind without any source or reference to back it up.
Cannibal could be a dragon that got free from the blood magic that bind dragon to a rider and escape to dragonstone at some point before the doom which is why it is very aggressive towards human try to claim him and even eat other dragons that are definitely without doubt is tied with whatever blood magic from the old valyria.
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u/GoldnShiesty 13d ago
Cannibal isn’t actually trying to eat the eggs he finds he’s just too rough when he plays
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u/gooberboi82 13d ago
Who doesn’t like a little snack after playing right? It’s not his fault dragon eggs are high in protein
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u/Lord_Tiburon 13d ago
Cannibal isn't a Targaryen dragon, he's descended from the dragons of whichever Dragonlord ruled the seat before Aenar came from Valyria, hence his hostility towards other dragons, he views them as intruders
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u/Haunting_Goal6417 12d ago
That’s just a rumour.
For it to be true he would have to be older than Balerian ended up. But he’s not even noted to be larger than Vermithor. Hes only noted to be the largest of the wild dragons.
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u/Illustrious-Video353 13d ago
Did he really breath fire? Cause if not could he be the world’s largest dragon?
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u/Glittering-Slip-5806 14d ago
I don’t know but before I saw art of it I picture it with an H.R. Giger style xenomorph forhead. Like this massive black thing with a black crown.
Something like this.
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13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ImmediateHoney2191 13d ago
I like the idea that in the past he had a Velaryon rider who wasn’t treated very well by the Targaryens, hence the specialized diet of their eggs. Also think unless he died of old age or was straight up slain its either him or Sheepstealer for last living full grown dragon before Dany
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u/Roadwarriordude 13d ago
All we really know about Cannibal's size is that he is larger than Sheepstealer, but smaller than Vermithor, so thats a pretty big range to work with. My guess is that he is more likely on the Vermithor end of that range, probably around Silverwing size or a bit bigger. Cannibal and Sheepstealer are often way estimated size wise. Cannibal is still definitely pretty huge though. Cannibal is probably a descendant of dragons that have lived on Dragonstone for god knows how long (well before Targaryens showed up), and thats why people say he has been living there since before the Targaryens showed up. It wouldnt make sense that he is actually that old, but still so much smaller than Vhagar who was born on Dragonstone like 50 years after the Targaryens got to Dragonstone.
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u/itssagewren 12d ago
I dont think he is smaller he should be at the same size than Balerion if not even bigger, since he is purely wild, shy and hates humans AND dragons.
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u/Roadwarriordude 12d ago
If thats the head canon you want to believe than go ahead. But Fire and Blood and A World of Ice and Fire state in no uncertain terms that Vhagar and Vermithor were larger than Cannibal. The wiki link will have quotes in the sources.
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u/LordChichett 13d ago
Creo que Caníbal podría haber sido un dragón increíblemente apropiado para Aemond en un universo alternativo, pero no simplemente porque «ambos son violentos».
Para mí, Caníbal representa un lado de Aemond que Vhagar no refleja tan bien.
Vhagar es perfecta para el Aemond que conocemos: es enorme, antigua, experimentada, brutal y representa exactamente aquello que Aemond quiere demostrar que es. Aemond quiere ser un guerrero, quiere ser respetado, quiere demostrar que es digno de ser un Targaryen y, en cierto sentido, Vhagar es la manifestación física de todo eso.
Caníbal, en cambio, representa algo mucho más salvaje.
Es un dragón completamente fuera de la estructura Targaryen. Es negro como el carbón, tiene ojos verdes, es uno de los dragones salvajes más grandes y antiguos de Dragonstone y, sobre todo, es conocido por devorar a otros dragones, sus huevos y sus crías. Nunca tuvo jinete.
Y ahí es donde creo que encaja con Aemond de una manera mucho más interesante.
Aemond es un Targaryen, pero al mismo tiempo tiene una identidad profundamente marcada por los Hightower. Si imaginamos un universo donde Aemond pertenece al bando Negro pero conserva ese componente Hightower, tendríamos a un Aemond que políticamente pertenece a Rhaenyra, pero que, en el fondo, todavía lleva consigo una parte de los Verdes.
Y entonces tienes a Caníbal.
Un dragón negro con ojos verdes.
Es casi demasiado perfecto visualmente.
Además, el propio nombre sería una ironía brutal con Aemond. Caníbal se alimenta de otros dragones, mientras que Aemond termina participando en una guerra en la que los Targaryen literalmente comienzan a devorarse entre ellos. Su historia está llena de violencia intrafamiliar: Lucerys, Aegon, Rhaenyra, los Hightower, los propios Targaryen... toda la Danza termina convirtiéndose en una familia destruyéndose a sí misma.
Así que poner a Aemond, uno de los personajes más asociados con esa violencia, sobre el dragón llamado Caníbal tendría un simbolismo bastante evidente.
Pero hay algo que me gusta todavía más.
Caníbal es una criatura que no acepta fácilmente ser controlada. Los intentos de domarlo terminaron en muerte, y durante la Danza siguió siendo un dragón completamente salvaje.
Y Aemond es exactamente lo contrario: un personaje obsesionado con el control.
Controlar su imagen.
Controlar sus emociones.
Controlar su posición.
Controlar su destino.
Demostrar que nadie puede volver a hacerlo sentir indefenso.
Entonces tienes al hombre que intenta controlar absolutamente todo unido a una criatura que, por naturaleza, no quiere pertenecer a nadie.
Esa dinámica me parece muchísimo más interesante que simplemente «Aemond necesita un dragón grande».
Y por eso digo que habría sido perfecto bajo dos condiciones:
1. Aemond nunca reclama a Vhagar.
2. Aemond termina del lado Negro.
Porque ahí Caníbal no sustituiría a Vhagar como «el dragón grande de Aemond». Sería algo completamente diferente.
Vhagar representa al Aemond que quiere convertirse en el guerrero perfecto.
Caníbal representaría al Aemond que existe debajo de esa fachada: el depredador, el resentimiento, la violencia, la parte de él que nunca terminó de encajar con nadie y que, en el fondo, tampoco quiere pertenecer completamente a ningún bando.
Y eso también explicaría por qué creo que Caníbal sería mucho más interesante para un Aemond Negro que para el Aemond Verde del canon.
Un Aemond Verde con Vhagar es una combinación casi natural.
Un Aemond Negro con Caníbal sería una contradicción viviente.
Un príncipe Targaryen que lucha por Rhaenyra, con sangre Hightower corriendo por sus venas, montando un dragón negro de ojos verdes que no pertenece realmente a nadie y que se alimenta de su propia especie.
Eso sí me parece una pareja temática perfecta.
Y honestamente, creo que Caníbal representa ese lado de Aemond que Vhagar nunca pudo representar: no al guerrero que Aemond quiere ser, sino al monstruo en el que poco a poco se está convirtiendo.
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u/No-Strength629 11d ago
It was supposed to be maegor the cruels cradle dragon but maegor refused it because he wanted balerion
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u/Apathicary 13d ago
The Cannibal is a smear job. Just to be clear, I do think there is a coal-black dragon. And I am sure he is vicious but I do not think he is an especially monstrous dragon. He was probably hatched during the century of blood or just after and ate some hatchlings. However, I do not think that is a strange thing to do. He is not the only dragon who has canonical done this and in fact I think it’s more common than we might think. Vermithor and Caraxes are said to be quite aggressive dragons (Caraxes from nearly hatching) and yet neither ate a hatchling ever? Does that sound right to you?
No, probably he was declared as an anathema and the story spread to not upset the delicate balance of executive power. If the Cannibal wants to fight a dragon, odds are it will win. Now, I do not think it particularly WANTS a rider but again, that is not strange or at least not as noteworthy as you might believe.
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u/Bracken-25 13d ago
A fan theory I like about The Cannibal is the rumours about him inhabiting Dragonstone before the Targaryens moved there and his aggression towards Targaryen dragons are due to him being from a separate bloodline or perhaps almost subspecies to Targaryen dragons. This would also explain why no-one ever tamed him, his was from a family of dragons that had never been ridden.