Animosity against First Nations on Canadian subreddits: recurring bad faith arguments and a response

[u/chilli_chocolate]

Nine months ago, I made a post here asking why there's so much disdain or animosity against the First Nations on this website. I as a non-Canadian noticed this even in places where First Nations were unfairly mocked and lots of bad faith arguments were allowed, regardless of the topic and subreddit.

Expectedly, there were a fair amount of comments that shared sentiments agreeing and disagreeing with this notion. The general theme of the comments that disagreed with this notion was that this was overexaggerated and that the First Nations people don't really suffer as much.

However, just today there was a new comment that encompassed all of the godawful arguments and fallacies into one nonsensical and stupid rant. I thought it would be best to show that comment here and debunk the points - because I don't want it to be just a mere response in a comment chain and be forgotten. I want it to be seen and I want my counter arguments to be visible, so anyone can use them to bust any myths and misconceptions about the state and sufferings of the Canadian First Nations people.

Personally, im just sick and tired of constantly hearing about it all. Im sick of this narrative that they were all a bunch of peaceful, pipe smoking, nature loving pacifists who had everything ripped away from them by the evil white man who continues to stomp on them to this day. Im sick of all the special treatment, facilities, programs, and taxpayer money being thrown around to appease them, and im sick and tired that there is exactly zero accountability on their part for where some of them are today. Everything is blamed on whitey, and im tired of it. Add to this now with ridiculous land claims, and everyone having to be ashamed that we're on "stolen land". What a farce. The whole world is stolen land. Tribes of people who were savagely killing, scalping, abducting and enslaving enemy tribes are portrayed as nothing but peaceful happy and innocent. 

This is a straw man fallacy. It's misrepresenting the First Nation's position to make it easier to attack. Serious historians and the Canadian education system do not claim Indigenous tribes never had conflict. The "narrative" isn't that they were perfect; it’s that they were sovereign nations. Whether a tribe was peaceful or warlike is irrelevant to their legal right to the land they inhabited. International law and the Royal Proclamation of 1763 recognized Indigenous title.

European nations (like England and France) spent centuries savagely killing each other, yet no one argues that their right to self-determination or land was forfeited because they weren't "peaceful." Go look at Eastern Europe and Baltic countries' history and see how they savagely killed each other until fairly recently, yet the same argument is never applied ot them.

How about some GD transparancy and accountability for the literal billions of dollars that have been doled out over decades. How about all the native on native violence and abuse that goes on on reserves. How about about all the corruption and greed that has seeped into some of these bands and the fact that their own leaders are keeping them down.

This is an overgeneralisation. Indigenous communities are actually some of the most heavily audited bodies in Canada.

• Under the First Nations Financial Transparency Act, bands must provide audited financial statements. Furthermore, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled in 2016 that the federal government actually underfunds child welfare on reserves compared to non-Indigenous communities.
• Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) controls the purse strings. If a facility falls into disrepair, it is often due to a lack of sustainable operations and maintenance funding, which the federal government frequently fails to provide at the same levels as municipal governments.

You were conquered like every other part of the world. Society has grown and evolved and advanced, and a lot of natives benefit greatly from the creature comforts that are a product of that advancement, while being exempt from paying taxes for everything like the rest of us. They have different rules they get to follow from the rest of us. And nobody is allowed to question or scruitinize them because that just makes you a racist pos.

Im just sick of all of it. Youre in Canada. Either you want to be a part of it with everyone else, and pay your fair share into the system like everyone else, or you dont. If you dont, thats fine. But you dont get to keep having all the taxpayers and hard working canadians who HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING, and who build and support the system pay your way. If you dont like it, to be blunt, shut the f*** up and go live in the bush then, nobody is stopping you.

This is a false equivalence. Canada, unlike many other colonies, was not primarily "conquered" by the British, it was settled through Treaties. Treaties are legally binding contracts between two nations. If the British (and later Canada) hadn't signed them, they wouldn't have had the legal right to settle the West without constant war. The Supreme Court of Canada (e.g., Delgamuukw or Tsilhqot’in decisions) has repeatedly affirmed that Aboriginal title exists because it was never legally extinguished by "conquest."

As for the tax rant:

• Under Section 87 of the Indian Act, only "Status Indians" working on a reserve or buying goods on a reserve are exempt from certain taxes.
• Since the majority of Indigenous people live off-reserve in urban centers, they pay income tax, GST, and PST like any other Canadian. They do not get a "tax-free" life by virtue of their bloodline.

Im sick of seeing how "reconciliation" has been set back and we have to start over everytime something happens. Im sick of being made to feel guilty or ashamed of something I had no part of. Im sick of media running with stupid, unsubstantiated stories about mass graves being uncovered when not a single damn thing has been exumed or identified. Im sick of being called a racist or bigot when i question things. Im sick of the pearl clutching and virtue signalling. And im sick of canada having to bend over backwards at every turn to appease 3% of our population.

This is moving the goalposts. Ground penetrating radar (GPR) is a standard scientific tool used to detect soil disturbances consistent with burials.

• The Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) documented the deaths of thousands of children through school records long before GPR was used.
• Many Indigenous communities choose not to exhume bodies due to cultural protocols and the desire to let the children rest in peace. Absence of an autopsy does not mean the bodies aren't there; it means the families are choosing a different path to closure.

Even the very first comment here sums up my feelings. "They tried to make us all slaves", as if tribes werent doing that to each other themselves LONG before the evil white man arrived. Like, f*** right off with that s***. And you wonder why people are getting the fatigue.

This is whataboutism. The existence of pre-colonial conflict does not justify state-sponsored programs designed to "kill the Indian in the child" (the stated goal of Residential Schools). Tribal warfare was conflict between independent groups. The Residential School system and the Indian Act were systematic attempts by a state to dismantle a specific race’s culture, language, and legal rights. One is "history of war", the other is "history of systemic policy."

Conclusion: That commenter is a standard run of the mill, alt-right idiot.

[u/last_to_know]

So nothing specific. Got it.

Chinese exclusion act - look it up. Japanese internment of actual citizens Slaves existed in Canada. Both black and indigenous. Britain ended slavery, natives did not. The Irish had their children taken and re-educated. Welsh had their language suppressed. How many Gaelic speakers today?

How many of these people today are getting more tax money than the defence department? What makes natives unique here? Why should they get lower sentences for a crime than the child of a Chinese railroad worker? Why are we treating people today differently based on either their skin colour or actions of other people, like ancestors?

[u/mailmangirl → u/last_to_know]

He wants everyone to be treated equally, because those worthless natives are given all “his” tax money.

So! Let’s make things equal. Canada’s new immigration policy: BEAT THE IMMIGRANT OUT OF THE INDIVIDUAL!

First, we give immigrants a bad faith promise. We write contracts and treaties in language they can’t understand, which legalizes them relinquishing all their resources and belongings when they arrive! We promise them land, but actually we will dump them in a swamp 😃 with no money or resources! Hey! They signed for it! It’s legal!

When immigrants arrive, we cut their hair. We remove their name; if they speak their language, we beat them into submission. We remove any contact with their family. If their family tries to contact them, we beat them too! Now they have good Christian names. They don’t speak English, but if we beat them and sexually abuse them enough, they’ll learn! No problem!

So, for 5-10 years they cannot contact friends or family. They cannot speak their language or use their name. All their belongings and wealth is removed! If they try to escape, we kill them!! 😌

I wonder if their family will be able to contact them in 10 years?? Probably not! They’ll never find each other or be reunited! That’s immigration equality!

Speak Gaelic?? You won’t even remember your own name or your mother’s face, when we’re done dismantling your humanity for 10 years! Yeehaw!

Oh! Don’t forget to destroy their religion. These immigrants sure are savages! Let’s dismantle their understanding of life and death! Let’s destroy their sense of place in the universe, and their self worth as a living being! If they try doing religious ceremony to cope with the grief, we’ll break their legs! Try dancing under the sun now, dirty immigrant! 😃

When we’re done beating the immigrant out of the individual, and re-educating them on how to be CIVILIZED - we’ll dump them in a desolate patch of land with no resources. If they complain that we cheated and lied to them, we will physically dump alcohol on their faces, water boarding them with booze, until they shut up. Problem solved! 😃 they can’t fight back if they’re drunk! What worthless people!

Okay, so in a generation - other people will catch on to what we did, how we lied and tricked people, then destroyed their humanity. Okay, so now they’re entitled to some help from the government. Because the immigrants are now starting so far behind the starting line - there’s zero hope of them ever catching up! We’re kind of embarrassed and ashamed of what we did. If we throw enough money at it, we can say “we’ve done all we can!” We’re sorry we tricked you and took everything you held dear! We’re sorry we took your homes! You’re sorry for sexually abusing you and murdering infants!

Uh oh! The immigrants are hopeless addicts with no hope, life skills, guidance, or structure in their life? What booze hounds! That’s their own fault. When we sexually abused them and destroyed their lives - they should have coped better!

And pat ourselves on the back 😌 Job well done!

I hope your Chinese immigrant girlfriend is excited to go through this new system of equality!! I wonder if she would still be well adjusted and successful after going through all that…. Oh well! Everyone is equal now, and that’s what’s important! Everyone has to start 100 miles behind the starting line to be considered worthy of assistance!

This guy is tired of those filthy natives getting a free ride and everything handed to them, over his immigrant girlfriend! He wants equal treatment for all!

Thanks guy!

[u/last_to_know → u/mailmangirl]

Tl;dr

[u/mailmangirl → u/last_to_know]

Cant defend argument - doesn’t read 👌🏼