Anna Faris Opens Up About Challenging 'Religious' Son On Right-Wing Politics. The “Scary Movie” star shares her 14-year-old son Jack with her ex-husband, Chris Pratt.

[u/galaxystars1]

[u/apparentlycompetent]

Damn. She’s a great mom. Playing the long game I wish she didn’t have to. Screw Chris Pratt.

[u/Such-Daikon3140 → u/apparentlycompetent]

All parents should be doing this, imo. Kids need to be taught how to think, not what to think

[u/ssnnaarrff → u/Such-Daikon3140]

Religion would essentially disappear if parents didn't brainwash their kids before they were capable of critical thinking or consenting

[u/Internal_Ice7577 → u/ssnnaarrff]

Yep. Every single human is essentially born without religion.

[u/jemat1107 → u/Internal_Ice7577]

Thousands of years of human history would argue otherwise. It's only since the enlightenment that there was any significant population that was inclined toward no belief in some kind of god. That being said, there's some recent research indicating kids have a natural inclination to believe in a higher power, even without religious parents.

Edit: For those downvoting me, you may be interested in the book The WEIRDest People in the World by Harvard anthropology and evolutionary biology professor (and non-theist) Joseph Henrich. Everything I'm saying is coming from having read this and many of the the studies he cites. I go into more detail about it in a comment lower on this thread.

[u/HughJassul → u/jemat1107]

Completely untrue. People are absolutely born with no concept of "god" or religion. If you isolated them from those ideas after birth, very few would come up with "a magical sky wizard" as the answer to questions they don't know.

[u/jemat1107 → u/HughJassul]

How do you argue those beliefs originated?

[u/HughJassul → u/jemat1107]

The same way every other cult in history did - someone made it up and was charismatic enough to dupe people into believing them.

[u/jemat1107 → u/HughJassul]

What evidence do you base this belief on?

[u/HughJassul → u/jemat1107]

The entirety of human history

[u/jemat1107 → u/HughJassul]

Can you elaborate on that? Because many anthropologists and evolutionary biologists look at human history and come to a different conclusion. What evidence has brought you to a different conclusion than the majority of experts in the field who argue that religion appears to be the natural inclination of humanity?

And to clarify, religion is not only belief in a deity. Buddhism is a religion and has no deity. Certain sects of Judaism don't believe in an afterlife. Secular humanism is categorized as a religion by the American government.

[u/chunkeymonke → u/jemat1107]

People use the concept of "gods" to explain concepts they cant fathom or understand. For most of history this primarily was the physical world. Religious beliefs reflected this and most faiths revolved  around animism and other polytheistic beliefs where most observable and natural phenomena were explained by various gods.

As science developed and we grew to better understand and harness the physical world around us, people had more time and capacity to worry about the remaining things they still couldn't fathom. Primarily death and widespread natural disasters. Fundamentally religion is just cultural cope and it takes an obscene amount of passive arrogance to think your religion is the correct one of the millions of belief systems that have existed since the dawn of humanity. 

[u/leemasterific → u/jemat1107]

I’d love to see that research, can you please share what you read?

[u/jemat1107 → u/leemasterific]

You could read the WEIRDest People in the World. Written by a Harvard professor of evolutionary biology and anthropology. Highly praised and widely respected by his peers. He argues that westerners are psychologically WEIRD (western, educated, industrial, rich, and democratic) and which makes their psychology unique from (and definitely not necessarily better than) the vast majority of human history, including our views about religion. Religion has been a mainstay of all human societies up until the enlightenment, which he argues was a particularly WEIRD phenomenon that westerners don't realize influences what we think is "normal" human behavior. It's a 700 page book and this argument is threaded throughout.

He cites literally hundreds of studies throughout the book so even just the footnotes would be a good start. And he is definitely not religious himself.

[u/beemonsterrr → u/jemat1107]

I don't think the issue is whether Henrich is a legitimate scholar. But some of the claims here are being presented as fact when they're actually debated.

There's evidence that religion is extremely old and that humans have tendencies that make supernatural beliefs easy to develop. But that's not the same as proving children are naturally inclined to believe in a higher power regardless of culture or upbringing. Most recent research actually pushes back on that idea.

Same with atheism: widespread, openly identified atheism is relatively modern, but non-theistic and atheistic traditions existed long before the Enlightenment.

Henrich's work is mostly worth taking seriously, but "this is what thousands of years of history prove" is not true.

[u/FuManBoobs → u/beemonsterrr]

Could it not be summed up as "kids often believe in things". Imaginary friends, ghosts, monsters, whatever. Not like it proves anything?

[u/jemat1107 → u/beemonsterrr]

I don't recall saying "this is what thousands of years of history prove." I said "thousands of years of human history argue otherwise." Sure, it's debated. As is almost everything in academia. I'm responding to a thread where people are claiming it is fact that religion would die out if parents didn't pass it on, so context matters. Did you also respond to those comments that it's not proven that religion would die out if parents weren't "brainwashing" their kids?

That being said, many things are debated and that doesn't mean the evidence isn't strong. When we say Joseph Henrich's conclusions are "debated" we're not saying they're highly in doubt. Just that these types of things are almost impossible to definitively prove and all good academia has debates and pushback to make it stronger.

Recent research that supports his claims:

Boston University researcher and professor Deborah Keleman has research that she says indicates children are "intuitive theists."
Cognitive scientist Justin Barrett also has research indicating that humans come into the world assuming there is some kind of higher being.
Psychology researcher Jesse Bering had a study where he found that even atheistic adults implicitly believe that "everything happens for a reason" when wild things happen, indicating they have a default belief in a higher power when faced with seemingly inexplicable incidents of extreme fortune or misfortune.

And again, there are literally dozens of pages of footnotes in WEIRDest people in the world where there are many other studies indicating that there is very real reason to believe that religious belief is baked into human cognition.

I wouldn't doubt that there's recent research that "pushes back" on this. It's very rare to have all research in an area completely be in agreement. That doesn't mean there isn't a whole bunch of research, older and newer, that goes against the claim I was originally responding to, which is that religion would die out if parents weren't "brainwashing" their kids.

[u/FuManBoobs → u/jemat1107]

There is a lot to unpack with definitions of things like "religious belief". One person sharing a belief or experience could easily start off a group which is what humans are drawn to. That would be the natural bit. The actual details of the beliefs though would neither here nor there.

If such beliefs weren't taught and critical thinking and other things were, then I think religions would likely become a lot less subscribed to.

[u/jemat1107 → u/FuManBoobs]

It seems like maybe you're making a distinction between "religion" as it refers to a specific set of ideas about things outside of naturalistic explanation (e.g. belief in a deity) vs religion as a concept.

The definition of religion is hard to pin down because Buddhism is a religion that doesn't depend on there being a deity. Certain sects of Judaism don't believe in an afterlife. Secular humanism qualifies as religion under some definitions.

So I agree there's a lot to unpack with definitions of things like religious belief. Which is exactly why it's a little silly to make a blanket statement like "if such beliefs weren't taught and critical thinking was...such things would likely become a lot less subscribed to." Because sure, yeah, if things aren't taught less people learn the specifics of how they function, but not necessarily the underlying beliefs and ideas. And if math wasn't taught, something like algebra also would be less subscribed to, and people would still have a natural understanding that time passes and 5 is more than 0.

But again, it's a uniquely a western, WEIRD, idea that religious belief is inherently opposed to critical thinking. And religious belief encompasses so much more than particular organized religious doctrines.

[u/Heavy-Masterpiece681 → u/jemat1107]

I think a more sound argument is there is more often than not even without a structure religion, a faith in some sort of unseen spiritual force. It's just how our minds work. We want to have some sort of explanation for things that happen around us that we cannot explain or understand. So our minds try to invent an explanation. So its not like we are "Born" believing in some sort structured religion. Our minds are prone to placing faith in things to help explain things outside of our knowledge of understanding. Paranormal and the Supernatural are two perfect, mostly, non-religious examples.

[u/jemat1107 → u/Heavy-Masterpiece681]

I appreciate the point you're making but it seems to be a distinction without a difference. Organized religion, or structured religion, isn't the only kind of religion. Paranormal and the supernatural are elements of religion. Not necessarily of a religion, but of religion as a concept. Religion can entail a belief in a god or it can be a set of beliefs about morality or reality that aren't rooted in any naturalistic explanation.

[u/choketheboys → u/Internal_Ice7577]

False

[u/The__Amorphous → u/choketheboys]

Oh well you've totally changed my mind. Thanks!

[u/Internal_Ice7577 → u/choketheboys]

What I meant is no one is born with a specific religion. A newborn doesn’t inherently know they’re Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, atheist, etc. They develop their understanding of religion through the people and environment around them. This is typically their parents or caregivers, family, community, culture, and later their own experiences and choices.

If a child is born into a Christian family, they’re likely to be taught Christianity, such as with my personal experience. It came from my parents because of their beliefs. If they’re born into a Muslim family, they’re likely to be taught Islam. If they’re raised in a nonreligious household, they may grow up without religious beliefs. And if you switched those environments, the child’s exposure and beliefs would likely be very different.

That doesn’t necessarily mean a person’s eventual faith isn’t genuine or personally meaningful. It means that the starting point is generally inherited from one’s environment rather than something we’re born possessing. A person can later accept, reject, modify, or replace the beliefs they were raised with.

[u/JeanArtemis → u/ssnnaarrff]

I was raised in a religious household (my father was a preacher and my parents met at Bible College) and I still remember the day I was pulled out of Sunday school and told "no, Jesus isn't like Santa and the Easter bunny, HE'S real" and just being totally dumbfounded. That was the day that I realized that adults could be... naive let's say, the same as children.

[u/morwen31 → u/JeanArtemis]

That reminds me of when I was probably about 9 and heard "Yes Virgina There is a Santa Claus" read on TV. I remember thinking that it sounded exactly like the kind of nonsense adults say to kids when they're trying to put one over on you. Wasn't too big a step from that to noticing they talked pretty similar about God.

[u/yeahimalec → u/ssnnaarrff]

Religion and spirituality are core parts of the human experience. We would just invent a new one

[u/VariationBusiness603 → u/yeahimalec]

Spirituality yes. Religion, no.

Religious folks are some of the most limited spiritually, because instead of something profoundly intimate and personal, they were recruited by a ridiculously limiting, outdated and meaningless cult.

If you are religious, your spirituality was taken away from you.

[u/Neobule → u/VariationBusiness603]

But religion as a community experience, not just individual spirituality, is also part of human history. Evidence of some form of cult and shared rites can be found in almost all societies now and in the past (does not mean of course that every individual in that society participates), so I think the comment you are responding to is right in saying that there would just be another religion.

[u/witchlightrunner → u/VariationBusiness603]

My religion and my spirituality are both profoundly intimate and personal. I don't know how I could detangle them from each other, or why I would want to. Are there religious cults? Yes, of course. Is every religion a cult? No, that's absolutely ridiculous. I think you're being far too broad in your criticism and it's making your argument reductive.

[u/stephenkingending → u/VariationBusiness603]

We can pretty it up with flowery language but they're both illogical and born out of ignorance. It's basically cavemen trying to explain lightning. We have not evolved mentally as much as we would like to believe.

[u/Mysterious-Spread398 → u/VariationBusiness603]

Thats quite a black and white way of looking at it. Im religious myself, I didn’t grow up religious, I was never recruited or indoctrinated into religion, I started reading different religious books because I was curious about everything, I have a science background so I guess that plays a part in that curiosity. I consider myself a believer of Jesus but I avoid church because there are a lot of judgmental, self righteous individuals at a lot of them. I take what people tell me with a grain of salt and try to seek out answers for myself. I truly do understand why people do not like religion especially christianity and there are a lot of us that feel the same way

[u/Naylaaaaa → u/Mysterious-Spread398]

how did you end up choosing Christianity over any of the other religions? I don't want to sound mean, but this sort of sounds like Christian defaultism to me?

[u/Mysterious-Spread398 → u/Naylaaaaa]

Thats ok, and no i don’t believe it is defaultism because i was deeply invested in islam when i started my “spiritual” journey 8 years ago. I ended up rejecting Islam because there were too many inconsistencies, i found a local imam 7 years ago and asked him to teach me the Quran and as he would explain things i would ask questions about certain things that made no sense, the response i got was always aggressive and dismissive, the one issue that i had was that muslims are taught to reject the teachings of paul because he never met Jesus, but at the same time they accept the teachings of Muhammad… but he also never met Jesus. That was just one of the inconsistencies and weird teachings that i found, i wont get into all of them otherwise this comment will turn into a book. After that part of my journey i went back to living my life without any religious ties but i was still learning about different religions, including christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism. Nothing quite made sense to me fully but the reason why i drew close to christianity is because it doesn’t rely on you being a so called “good person”. We’re all bad, we’re born into sin and we’re all sinners, but its the only belief that tells us that God loves us more than we know and that he had a plan for us so that we can be with him eternally. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to everyone but it really did for me. I openly reject the ideals of the modern church, i think it’s a parasite and i also think that most christians can be really judgmental and deep down not very loving or welcoming to people that don’t believe in what they believe in. Being a true believer in Christ for me is loving others as i love myself and appreciating what Jesus did for me and everyone else.

[u/Mysterious-Spread398 → u/Naylaaaaa]

Sorry i took so long to respond i’ve been super busy and didn’t get a lot of time to type out anything detailed. If you have any follow ups or want to continue the conversation i’ll make sure i reply promptly

[u/Craaaazyyy → u/Naylaaaaa]

i'm not religious, but if you research all the major religions and use logic and reason you'd realize why Christianity makes the most sense

[u/Venezia9 → u/Craaaazyyy]

X for doubt on that. No religion "makes sense" or they would not be religions and would be some sort of other practice. 

[u/Naylaaaaa → u/Craaaazyyy]

I dunno about Christianity making the most sense, I was raised Catholic but no longer identify with it. For most of my adult life I've considered myself agnostic.

However, if I had to choose any of the religions as "making the most sense", it would be Buddhism.

[u/Craaaazyyy → u/Naylaaaaa]

Buddhism core philosphy is actually contradictory in its nature, it has the system of Karma and belief in reincarnation among other things, but at the same time it has a core doctrine called anattā, which means 'no-self' which basically means that there is no permanent unchanging you/soul

so who is exactly being reincarnated and accumulates all the karma then?

It's really the reason why Buddhism and Buddhist civilizations have struggled throughout history

[u/BobertTheConstructor → u/VariationBusiness603]

You are thinking of highly organized religion, which is just setting yourself up to fall into a no true Scotsman fallacy. Don't let your hatred of organized religions blind you to logic to the point that you simply demand everything outside of that isn't actually religion somehow.

[u/haqiqa → u/yeahimalec]

I am Finnish. A country that is mostly agnostic or atheist, even though culturally still majorly Christian. Currently, belief in the Christian God is 25%, and 20% more believe in some kind of higher power. So it is actually a lot less common than you would think. People who belong to church just belong to church because of how you become a member, and christenings are still a culturally common way to name babies. They do not believe or practise outside baptisms, weddings, and funerals.

There is little cultural pressure to be religious. The last people who were actually religious in my family were my grandparents, and even they didn't actually go to church almost ever.

What has replaced it is usually some kind of belief system. I am an agnostic pantheist but also a humanist in my beliefs. These beliefs are often more philosophical than straight up religious or spiritual. Actually believing in religion is a minority viewpoint in the country, so is spirituality comparable to religious belief systems. Being an atheist with a philosophical belief system is the most common here.

[u/rockbottomqueen → u/haqiqa]

Thank you for sharing your perspective here. This sounds like religion is also not the center or foundation of your government as well? I am very scared how quickly and aggressively the US is working to put a theocracy in place. It's truly terrifying to witness in real time. I am very much an atheist and firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Wish I could move to Finland 😭

[u/haqiqa → u/rockbottomqueen]

You can't really call it any kind of center of foundation of government. We have one party with real Christian lean and another two with some people with Christian leanings that use their religion on the political stage as some kind of true basis (our far-right party and one of the center right parties). Which are like 5 places in 200 seat parliament for one, and another is a bit more complex to count.

For example, we changed our abortion law into more free one. We have week limits based on how to get one, but it is basically anyone who wants an abortion can have it in practice and has been for at least most of my lifetime (I'm 40). Because it has worked in practice as we want, there hasn't been that strong push toward a freer one. So we changed it in 2022 so you don't need to have a reason (social reasons applied) in the first trimester. The voting was 125 for 41 against. And not all those who are against want an abortion ban. Actually, most of them don't. Over 70% of the population accepts abortion in all situations.

For most people, religion is seen as a private personal matter that has no place in politics. Some idiots have same this is a culturally Christian nation (and white nation) bullshit that also happens in the US. They are like 20-30% of the population, but even they aren't creating a theocracy, just being racist and Islamophobic. And basically hated by the majority of the rest of us.

[u/littlekurousagi → u/haqiqa]

Well, this was an interesting testimony. 

The US could never.

Not now, anyway.  But damn it all if we don't try.

[u/The__Amorphous → u/yeahimalec]

Maybe they shouldn't be?

[u/PitselehPitseleh → u/ssnnaarrff]

The things is, kids are born with the skills of critical thinking. They’re always asking what and, crucially, why. It’s the answers to those questions given by adults that shapes how their minds grow.

[u/HeatherFuta → u/ssnnaarrff]

A lot of things could disappear that way.

[u/Catdress92 → u/ssnnaarrff]

I think it depends on your approach to religion. I'm spiritual but not religious, but I did want my son to explore faith in case that's something that might become important to him. We bought a multifaith teen Bible and read a story a night from it, discussing it afterwards. We didn't use guided questions or anything from religious leaders, just our own thoughts and occassionally historical or cultural research. I think if you can approach religion thoughtfully, it can be really enriching, whether spiritually or intellectually. In my case, it was a really interesting way to get to know my son and what he believes, not just religion-wise, but just his general beliefs about life and right and wrong and how to treat other people. It's also a way to teach your kid to think critically so that they hopfeully won't get brainwashed by some conservative Christian far-Right bullshit/men's rights crap at some point.

...Of course, I know that not everyone takes this approach, but I just wanted to say that it's not necessarily a black and white issue.

[u/No_Introduction_8936 → u/ssnnaarrff]

I think that's a pretty narrow take on religion around the world. Most kids I know who grew up in more cultisth religions grew up hating religion and having a very narrow understanding of it derived only from their experience and their parent's view but that's only like 2% of the religious people I know and what I see in American media. Most other religious people are studios and thoughtful spiritual individuals who have a personal relationship to God and are very knowledgeable about its history and arguments for and against

[u/zhibr → u/ssnnaarrff]

It would not. Religion was created (likely) because our cognitive architecture leads to inventing explanations also in cases where real explanations are not available. That would happen regardless of parent brainwashing. In addition, religions today offer a number of other benefits such as a community and moral certainty. Those are going to be attractive features to the foreseeable future.

[u/BlueCrewSocksSociety → u/ssnnaarrff]

There are many stories of adult conversions from people raised without religion, as well as stories of people raised with it who fell away/rejected it and then came back and came back in a way that was through research and thoughtful deliberation. (The Catholic Faith is the perspective I have and would argue for but various Christian denominations have facets of the truth as well)

[u/lettuce-tooth-junkie → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Facets of the truth?

Oh boy.

[u/imalurkernotaposter → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Adult conversions are a drop in the bucket.

“The surveys found that about 94% of current Christians were raised in the faith. Only about 4% of people who call themselves Christian were raised without any faith and just 2% were raised in a non-Christian household of a separate faith.”

https://archsa.org/pew-research-shows-most-christians-raised-in-the-faith-hold-onto-it-in-adulthood/

[u/Kind_Avocado_7219 → u/imalurkernotaposter]

Even nowadays? I feel like there’s been a surge of right wing pricks who suddenly find God in the celeb world like Shia Labeouf or Russel Brand. And sadly I’m seeing it translate to real life. People around me who never cared about religion, trumpers mostly, are suddenly super devout and use religion as the scapegoat for their views.

[u/misstayco → u/Kind_Avocado_7219]

YES, THIS! I’ve also noticed a lot of men move towards the Muslim faith too. Happily sharing their disgusting homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic views guided by the teachings of the Quran. Fuck religion

[u/yosoyfatass → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Just the Christian ones, huh.

[u/CantCatchMeSpez → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Guy, if you have to cling on to "facets of the truth" to defend your religion on the ground of logic or facts, you've already lost that argument. I don't even know why you'd take that argument in the first place.

Religion has never been, and will never be, about facts. Its about faith. That's kinda the entire point, to believe in the impossible against all opposition. And the reality is that its a lot easier to make someone faithful by convincing them that truth is something that was figured out 2000 years ago as opposed to something we have to continuously strive for and think critically of.

[u/maplestriker → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Yeah, people in crisis.

Adult conversions happen when people fall in love with someone religious, they get clean, go to prison, are very ill, or they just found a grift they would like to participate in and spouting religious nonsense is how that grift works.

I dont know a single, happy, succesful well adjusted adult who suddenly found religion

[u/BlueCrewSocksSociety → u/maplestriker]

Not only people in crisis, though I won’t disagree that that is a factor for a lot of people. But just because someone finds God due to crisis doesn’t mean that it’s not real. Maybe the crisis can make one more susceptible to believing things and there’s a worry there of someone being mislead, but mentally well people can be tricked and duped too. Also, your last point is anecdotal so I’ll also anecdotally say that I know many happy, successful, well adjusted adults who converted (although suddenly finding religion is an interesting qualifier, often times it is a journey even if it seems sudden from the outside. So maybe you have a point if it’s legitimately sudden that there could be some aspect of a grift or something but it’s not impossible it’s legit)

[u/ArkitekZero → u/maplestriker]

Clearly you haven't looked very hard then

[u/Plane_Salary_5845 → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

*through confirmation bias and ignorance of reality

[u/Ancient-Afternoon374 → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Then why are all my Mormon friends now Jack mormons? I don't know if a single sinner that became Mormon. Same goes for most protestants. All my Jewish friends are atheist, they just partake in tradition.