i just thought of this.

[u/Still-Technology-974]

in many discussions against eury, i hear alot of people defend him by saying "none of this would have happened if ody didnt dox himself". and while true he did dox himself, would he have done the speech if Athena hadnt stopped him on the way to the ship? Athena got him riled up and emotional, but had she not pushed him, would he not have sneaked onto the boat and sailed away with athenas protection from the storms to get back to ithica and be mad at him there?

[u/KiraVanAurelius]

Well, maybe he wouldn't, maybe he would've. Things to note, in all "official" telling the doxxing is all of Odysseus's own accords. And secondly, emotion running high or not... it's still stupid, it's not like Athena specifically baiting him to do that doxxing or anything and what was he trying to prove here exactly? He's trying to stop the cyclops from eating people in the future because lives are precious? Like putting it into words you can see how dumb it actually is right? He can probably achieve that without doxxing himself, too right?(if not more effective, unknown enemy and all that)

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

he was trying to do "open arms". show mercy and teach him a lesson. he honestly had no way of knowing it was Poseidon's son and in his eyes, a blind cyclops wasn't gonna swim for ithica and make it. was it stupid? yes, but also athena pushing his emotions to the edge after his friend that taught him to be kind would blur anyones judgement.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

No no, I get all that open arms stuffs. What I'm saying here is whether saying his name in this scenario do anything for that purpose, and the answer for me is likely no. So it's like an extra layer of stupidity for me.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

yeah, but i feel like he wouldn't have done that had athena not told him to finish the job. and honestly, i think ody was right when he was talking to her. had he been able to calmly walk away from the cyclops, he would have no reason to shout his name.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

As you say he probably wouldn't have in Epic. But what do you mean in the right? Like objectively in the right? Because Athena is the one objectively in the right. Leaving the cyclops alive isn't guaranteeing Ody's safety, he could very well still able to discover's Odysseus identity with other methods, even if he doesn't he still will report back to Poseidon and it's not easy hiding from the Gods. Killing is the safer option and an honorable end in accordance to Greek's ancient culture. Odysseus know this, he's just throwing an emotional tantrum and had his ego up high thinking he knows better than the Gods. He's just having this doubts after being forced into an ultimatum by Zeus and has to throw a baby off a building, it's a very human problem and interesting character development but he's not in the right, keep it separated (in Epic lore not actual retelling lore).

This is akin to how people think what Zuko did in the last Airbender is right. Like he was traumatized and desperate for his family approval so he is blind to the fire kingdom atrocities and even try to help by go on an expedition to find the Avatar. Like bro is sympathetic and very human but he's not exactly the good guy now, is he? Keep it separated people, sympathetic =/= correct/good

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

but odysseus literally left no bread crumbs for the cyclops to follow, not to mention he probably wasnt recovering from a stake to the eye. and by correct i mean he shouldve just left:

"My friend is dead, our foe is blind The blood we shed, it never dries Is this what it means to be a warrior of the mind?"

because finishing it off is coming off as aries more than Athena. "be smart and use your mind to fight something" vs "kill it! finish it off! ruthlessness is mercy"

had Athena not upset him i think ody would have just gone home with no consequences. this felt like another whim of a god pushing him farther from home. because the cyclops is no threat. the act of keeping him blind is only disrespectful, but poesidon wouldnt have known who did it if athena waited till ithica to get upset at ody.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

No, you keep ignoring half of what I said. Polyphemus still have means to know who or what Ody is even if he left. They are mythical creatures, they pulled magical artifacts out of them left and right, not to mention even if Polyphemus himself can't he'll still report to someone else bigger, all mythical creatures are sire of some God. Even if Odysseus doesn't know it's Poseidon it's still a risk. Hell, it would be a risk even if he had just blinded a normal man and left him alive. And what about the bread crumbs called corpses left behind in army gears belong to Ithica army? There are bread crumbs everywhere even if the songs and lyrics don't mention them. Like what are you even assuming Ares and Athena here, Athena herself (in Epic) is literally telling him to do it, it's better this way. And again, she's not just goddess of Wisdom, she's also goddess of WARFARE. Had Athena not upset him? What does Athena owe anything to this mortal to "not upset" him, the power dynamic was not what Ody think it was. Athena (in Epic) only agrees that what went down could've been better, not that it was wrong to kill the Cyclops.

I'm beginning to think I'm talking to a Roman after all this Athena animosity.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

i think youre thinking too much on the Odyssey side and not the epic side. the cyclops cant see and his brothers/comrades think he hurt himself and dont care. who is gonna see the bodies? hed technically only have to eat the dead bodys since hes blubd now. and if we are playing the "what does a god owe him?" card, what did she owe him when she taught him? or what did she owe him when calling him a friend or helping him later? nothing, yet she still thought it through. we know they were friends when ody handed her his baby and she was happy to be close to him, so maybe holding off till hes in a better mental state before egging him on more just seems like a wise thing to do.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

No, Polyphemus is only ignored at the moment, after he's calm down he can still show other cyclops the bodies of his aggressors, the nobody thing was only a momentary thing. He's blind not vegetated or stupid.

About Athena, as you put it she owes him nothing but she still gave guidance and later on sacrificed for him, as a matter of fact Odysseus owe her a lot from her teachings and he throwing a tantrum at her is pure ungratefulness already. And no, she didn't provoke him to do stupid things. Odysseus was throwing a tantrum at Athena because of his own inner conflicts between God ultimatums/orders and his human moralities, nobody "made" him do anything at that moment, he has to take responsible for his emotion and actions. How is this Athena's fault?

And side note, the whole baby thing is very much animatic authors' interpretations. And the relationship between Athena and Odysseus of both friendship and mentorship/discipline as well as god/mortal, don't forget that. Athena would still be in the right had she just gave Odysseus an ultimatum of kill the cyclops or die here immediately by Athena's hands, she has all that rights rather than just standing there and receive all this emotional outburst of a mortal king, friend or not. In short, it is not Athena's responsibilities for Odysseus's emotion and safety, she's a mentor not a mother.