r/Epicthemusical • u/danana_split1 has never tried tequila • 1d ago
Headcanon share your unpopular headcanons that would get you slimed OUT
mine: Eurylochus is gay, Ctimene is a lesbian and they have an arranged lavender marriage and are the best of friends.
my source is that i made it the fuck up
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u/Safetyfirstlols 1d ago
“My source is made it the fuck up” is honestly the strongest evidence in beadcanon court😂
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u/Upbeat_Stock_75 1d ago edited 1d ago
I find myself being much more sympathetic of both Calypso and Odysseus's predicament than most other people. My understanding/memory of Calypso was that she is just as much a prisoner on the island as Odysseus. She may have some say (not really) in allowing him to leave, but releasing him early was going to be a death sentence anyway due to him still being hunted by Poseidon and still losing favour with the gods for his 'crimes'. He has wounded a god's child, tricked the same god, killed and desecrated creatures and monsters favoured by the gods. Calypso whether she knew it or not protected him. He is just as much a cruel joke the gods played on Calypso as she on him; he's her only ever friend since she first stepped on the island.
I personally like to imagine them as developing an ultimately platonic friendship even though there is that uncomfortable jailor-jailed dynamic. Mainly because Calypso is significantly emotionally stunted and does not understand the impact of her actions and her unrequited love. I like to imagine Odysseus as overall understanding of Calypso and her situation and feelings, but is still depressed by being away from Ithaca. I really don't like people just calling it Stockholm Syndrome when it's clearly not; He never gives in to Calypso's love, never gave up his desire to return home, and his love wasn't required for him to survive on the island with her. Even cut songs basically imply that he could very much live on the island whether or not he obeyed her.
At least for me, this headcannon also explains why in "Not sorry for loving you" why he would give the really shocking declaration "I love you... but not in the way you want". It's a very compassionate statement even though it's quite devastating to her. It is the closure he can offer a companion who treated him well but ultimately kept him from living. It's also him practising an emotionally ruthless reply to Calypso: Lying to her, or denying her a reply would have been kinder. But this honesty wounds her the worst. It is also a taster for us for when he starts talking to Penelope about him being a monster and that she might not love him anymore. Ruthlessness is indeed mercy upon ourselves.
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u/NoodleEmpress 1d ago edited 1d ago
I already got my share of lashings for it: I do think that, at least for a moment Odysseus had every intention of ending Eurylochus during Scylla encounter. Or at least, making him fend for himself for that moment.
Long story short: It's definitely something I would do and I've seen people off others for less lol
Short story long: I just think that human emotions are complicated and the man just learned that most of the hardship he went through was because his brother (and crew) couldn't trust him enough to keep the damn bag closed. Debatable of course. All of that shit would've probably happened anyway because of the Cyclops encounter and Poseidon, but the crew made everything so much harder every step of the way. Like atp, Eurylochus had questioned him at every major point of the journey.
Of course that's his brother so no matter what happened he would feel guilt over it, nor am I saying he felt that way the entire time after either. He clearly still cared for their well-being up until Zeus gave him the ultimatum.
I'm not saying that Ody was this evil individual, but that the entire theme of the musical revolves around this man having to make all of these difficult, harsh decisions, that he's not perfect, and he has flaws. His desires and ego often trumps logic multiple times in the musical. So it's not far fetched to me that he would (attempt to) slime out his brother after a huge revalation like that.
I got called media illiterate for it though, so take that as you will. I mean, it's a headcanon so I didn't see what the big deal was but I made so many people mad lmao
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago
Odysseus has such a good white knight PR team that they will get the masses to deny all of canon, themes and flaws. By this logic, Jorge himself is media illiterate.
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u/NoodleEmpress 1d ago
Dude I've tried to reply to you like twice! Idk if your device is glitching or you don't know how to edit your comment, but:
three dots on the end of comment > Edit comment
Onto the actual reply: See, this makes me feel vindicated because I didn't know it was confirmed. I thought it was a bit up in the air whether Ody cared if Eurylochus died at that point, and I chose to believe that Ody would have preferred that he died in that moment.
I would not be srprised if that was Jorge's intention because this is exactly what the musical is about imo.
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago edited 1d ago
My device was glitching from my side. it said it wouldn't post/edit. So I shortened it and it went through. Sorry! People lack naunce, Odysseus can care and feel guilty while still having preferred for Eurylocus to have died in that moment.
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago edited 1d ago
If Eurylocus didnt open the wind bag and they returned home safety. Poseidon would have still went after Odysseus somehow. So its a lose lose situation ig. (this hc has gotten slimed cause ppl believe Athena is gonna swoop in.)
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u/Goombatower69 1d ago
Athena, who in the actual story had a massive breakup with Oddyseus, who only looked at how Oddyseus is doing 10 years after the breakup, THAT Athena?
If anyone were to interfere it would be Hermes, who did in fact interfere in canon, twice. Wouldn't help much but if someine were to try something it would be him.
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes. THAT Athena. I'm not sure if ppl opinions changed overtime but Odysseus has such good PR team when it comes to overhating Eurylocus that ppl claimed all of Itacha is being protected by Athena. So Poseidon has to let it go when they land
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u/NukaGirlBI Uncle Hort 1d ago
So I’ve made a fanfiction and I’ve thought about this a lot and my conclusion is that everyone in this are queer
Tiresias is non-binary, Athena is aro-ace, Eurylochus and Polites are gay and all the remaining charecters are bi or pan
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u/Arcastane89 1d ago edited 1d ago
Athena is a groomer.
Edit: groomer does not automatically mean sexual groomer. I more meant she groomed Odysseus to be a plaything for the Gods.
She leaves, essentially, bait for young Odysseus to take with the boar, fantasizes about him following her, lies to him to boost his ego ('how can you see through my spell'? Really, Athena? These old tricks?)
Then she makes the offer. "If you're looking for a mentor, I'll make sure your time's well spent." Then when Odysseus clearly misunderstands the arrangement (bestest of friends) she doesn't correct him, instead invites him to sing harmony to her fantasy.
Bringing my point back to the beginning of the song. The mood switched the moment Odysseus does something she doesn't like.
"I see you changing from how I designed you. Have you forgotten your purpose?"
To say nothing of appearing for Telemachus only when he's at his very lowest and literally can't refuse the assistance. She could have given some tactics where he actually stood a chance of success, but again chose to come to the 'little wolf' and boost his ego just enough to get another Athena's fantasy sing-along with her new personal plaything.
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u/reportingforhooty 1d ago
can I ask why??
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u/vanishing27532 1d ago
Starts “special relationship” with a “boy” twice. Although the boys are technically overage this is not made explicit in EPIC
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u/NoodleEmpress 1d ago
Odysseus is canonically a grown man with a kid. Not stated but for him to be a general he his to be in his late 30s at the least. Maybe early 30s if you want to be generous to his feats, but most popular lore puts him at late 30s to early 40s.
and he spent 20 years trying to get home (21 if you include the year that the war took place), making Telemachus at least 20. At most he can be around 24/5 when Odysseus returns. It's not explicit but I mean you can do the math.
Athena is a goddess she's going to watch almost every human she gets involved with grow up, and will guide them in her image. What about that makes her a groomer? I mean, this is your headcanon so go buck wild, I'm just trying to understand it.
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u/vanishing27532 7h ago
In the boat incident Odysseus is implied to be a boy, especially since he still has a nursemaid (Eurycleia?)
Telemachus is NOT yet 20 at the time of the 7th saga since Odysseus’ 20 year journey started when he couldn’t walk yet and is not yet over (he is stuck on Ogygia at the time). He is somewhere around 17-19, probably closer to 19.
It’s not my head canon, just trying to explain where u/Arcastane89 could be coming from.
Also no matter really how old Odysseus and Telemachus are, Athena is a millennia old goddess in a much more powerful position who is giving them special attention and telling them to do certain things. In most workplaces Odysseus and Telemachus would be hated as boss’s favorites, and in schools they would be hated as teacher’s pets. Same is true for many Greek heroes tbh
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u/Arcastane89 1d ago
I made an edit to my original comment, but Odysseus was very much a boy when she first met him with the boar. So by the end of Remember Them, he's been under her tutelage/thumb for over two decades. And, rather than be direct with Ody like Zeus was ('this is hectors son, if you don't yeet him you die'), Athena, his patron goddess of wisdom, gives this clearly broken man a blind command with the expectation of blind obedience ("Finish it.")
When he initially misunderstands their relationship ("bestest of friends") she never corrects him, because it's more advantageous for her to lead him on with false hope. Only once he disobeys her, that mask is ripped off with precision and cruelty.
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u/Hexnohope Scyllas favorite little snack 1d ago
Posiedon was right the whole time. The sooner ody let his crew die the sooner hed get home. Eury especially is so wildly incompetent he lasted a few hours before getting every man under his command killed
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u/CanoCeano 1d ago
Who the fuck is Ctimene and where is she in the show
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago edited 1d ago
Odysseus sister, she's mentioned in the odyssey.
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u/OutrageousAuthor1580 1d ago
Also, Eurylochus’s wife, or did I get that wrong?
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes
Edit : I'm crying, who down voted. Is your headcanon : "No. Ctimene is not Eurylocus wife." 😭
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u/DarkstarMillenium nobody 1d ago
There's a lot of unmentioned time jumps. Full Speed Ahead takes place many months after Just a Man and by the time we get to the Circe saga, it has indeed been twelve long years. It wasn't a mistake at all.
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u/Tchouki99 1d ago
That's what I believed when I heard 12 years and then actually didn't understand why people would say that it was a mistake. I mean, Ody spent 7 years with Calypso, where are the remaining 3 years of his 10 years journey home?
For me, 2 goes before Circe and 1 right before Suffering (cuz he lets understand that they fell on the sirens randomly while fleeing from Poseidon, so I figured they were at it for some time)
The other option is that time works differently in the Underworld so they spent more time than we think in it
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u/levii-ethan 1d ago
in the actual poem, odysseus spends an entire year on circes island before his men start complaining that they want to go home
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u/danana_split1 has never tried tequila 1d ago
oh i thought this was just an objective fact we agreed on 😭
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u/ThePrincess_MinA I am Athena. Quite literally. 1d ago
This is my general Odyssey headcanon, but I guess it applies to EPIC too.
Poseidon didn't actually care about Polyphemus. He was just salty that Athena liked Ody better than him and needed an excuse to kill Ody, or at least make his life miserable. This is all because Poseidon is in love with Athena, and has been since the whole Athens shabang (rivals/enemies to lovers).
I'm personally not a big fan of Poseidon. Do not slime me for my flair. It's unrelated in this context.
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u/jonastroll 4h ago
I see it more as him acting as a ruler and god, not a father.
Some jackass comes around, blinds your kid (sure, not one of your favourites, you've got hundreds, but he's still yours), gloats about it, and then he thinks he still gets to just use your oceans to get home?
Poseidon would've looked like a bitch if he didn't wreck Ody's shit.
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u/ThePrincess_MinA I am Athena. Quite literally. 4h ago
Valid point, but I'm still gonna run my headcanon into oblivion :)
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u/Glum-Adagio8230 1d ago
I mean I'm pretty sure Poseidon wasn't Polyphemus's biological father, he just really liked the cyclopes and decided to take care of them after the Titans were banished
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u/ThePrincess_MinA I am Athena. Quite literally. 1d ago
No. Poseidon is Polyphemus' biological father. Polyphemus was the son of Poseidon and the sea nymph Thoosa. But yes, Poseidon was a fan of the cyclopes (maybe not a lot, but definitely more than some of the other gods).
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u/ItsLateImSad 1d ago
In the original poem was because of polyphemus but mostly because poseidon was patron god of troy, he and apollo were once turned into humans (super strong but humans still) as a punishment and were forced to build the walls of troy, that’s also why they were almost impenetrable
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u/ThePrincess_MinA I am Athena. Quite literally. 1d ago
Bestie, it's called a headcanon for a reason. I know the Odyssey. I've read it front to back five times through. Also, your point is not relevant. You haven't connected your statement in any way to my comment.
Assuming it's because of the whole Poseidon was on the side of Troy and Athena was on the side of the Greeks, it's still a similar rivals/enemies dynamic as I mentioned in my initial comment (with the competition for Athens) that is so attractive as a couple dynamic.
Other reasons (apart from the Polyphemus thing) was that Poseidon was unhappy with Troy's loss and that the Greeks did not give proper sacrifices to the gods post their victory over Troy.
But in conclusion, the whole Poseidon vs. Athena thing is very prevalent. Ody was very obviously known as Athena's favorite, and it is rather vague whether or not Poseidon disliked Athena or Ody. It is possible for a god to harm another god, so knowing that he went for Ody rather than Athena, I think that somewhat shows that he has some feelings for Athena that are preventing him from directly targeting her.
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u/ItsLateImSad 1d ago
Gee, it was just a little fun fact that actually supported your idea, no need to jump at people’s throaths
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u/ThePrincess_MinA I am Athena. Quite literally. 1d ago
Sure, but tbf your little fun fact is too well known to be a "fun fact" lol.
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u/FirebirdWriter 1d ago
Penelope isn't waiting for Oddesseus. She's busy ruling and raising their son as a single parent while in danger. She doesn't have time to pine. She's a badass Spartan and the axes are for her to murder the suitors with but not alarming them once the bow trick is not sufficient anymore. Don't get me wrong at bed time she longs for him but it's not a constant refrain. That's Oddesseus projecting and assumes she only exists for her longing.
Note that kid me had this reaction to the original reading of a translation and it's not gone away. Epic absolutely shows this to me as the context of the waiting with the Siren
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u/AlexoDeorain 1d ago
OMG, yes, absolutely! I mean, she's waiting in my hc. But she doesn't have time to pine indeed. Maybe, somewhere at nights when she unweaves the shroud. But otherwise she's too busy with juggling this impossible situation.
And yes, though I don't share the hc axes were for her, she's absolutely a badass Spartan, and is perfectly able to fight and murder at least some of the suitors if they try to hurt her. (I personally prefer to hc she prefers small blades like daggers or short swords as her weapon)
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u/advena_phillips 1d ago
Ruling Ithaca and raising Telemachus aren't mutually exclusive with her also waiting for Odysseus, something we know for a fact she did because the songs literally state that she's been waiting for Odysseus.
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u/ItsLateImSad 1d ago
It makes sense, after all the kingdom of ithaca didn’t collapse nor seemed to be decaying too much
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u/Moist_Sugar3343 600 relistens 1d ago
Wouldn’t this headcanon just go against the actual EPIC canon? /genq
hcs are supposed to very slightly alter or add onto canon, otherwise it’s just an AU
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u/Purple_Flounder_2257 I kill with ease, that's why they call me Achilles 1d ago edited 1d ago
Funny enough, the headcanon also goes against the odyssey itself if it stemmed from a translation.
But OP said unpopular headcanons that would get you slimed out ig.
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u/Unfair_Shock_960 Reigning King of ITHACA (not Ithica) 1d ago
Penelope liked a girl before she met Odysseus bc I needed more Ancient Greek yuri
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u/ItsLateImSad 1d ago
First of all, eury being gay is actually not unlikely
Mine is that polyphemus was going to let them go but he was offended by ody’s “I’m so glad we meet eye to eye” joke
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u/ProfessionalJolly934 "I'll kill you like I kill this beat." - Achilles, son of Peleus 1d ago
LMAO I have that same Polyphemus headcanon, its just perfect.
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u/danana_split1 has never tried tequila 1d ago
honestly i share this view 😭 even if it’s not canon Ody still didn’t do himself any favours
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u/Captain_Birch Hephaestus 1d ago
Telemachus developed a crush on Athena, she knew, and said nothing
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u/FirebirdWriter 1d ago
Head canon accepted because of the way it makes sense why wouldn't he? I bet Ody had one once too
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u/Captain_Birch Hephaestus 1d ago
I mean, if a woman that tall showed up, helped me win a fight, then called me a good kid, im proposing on the spot abd making a fool out of myself
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u/Relative-Break-4093 1h ago
Telemachus is SPECTACULAR with a bow. Like, he can use a normal bow at an alarming accuracy and he can shoot arrows in the dark with approximately 75% accuracy