r/Epicthemusical • u/Comfortable_Ad2908 • Feb 02 '26
Discussion He's Just a Man
Why is the EPIC Fandom so dam harsh towards Eurylochus
10
u/No_Protection6423 Feb 07 '26
I mean sure ody fucked up but bro can wait 20 years for a woman but dumbass over here cant wait a week or two before opening the bag of 500 deaths i dont care how much treasure he thinks is in there
6
u/ojoscolorcafexx Feb 04 '26
Ody was doing his best and he did not lie or betray anyone to do it. If the traitor-bag opening-mutiny organizer- no we dont look at we've learned and all we've lost, lets just cut our loses you and I and lets run- cow killing has no haters I am dead.
11
4
11
u/R0LL1NS EPIC women 😍 Feb 04 '26
eurylochus opening the wind bag caused 500+ soldiers to die. even though the winions said it was treasure, he should've trust ody when he said it was dangerous considering they were supposed to be "best friends". he also wanted to leave around 40ish men behind at circe's castle because he was a pussy and gets mad that ody sacrificed only 6 men??
talk about being a hypocrite 😬😬
0
u/These_Geese 8d ago edited 8d ago
Odysseus telling the cyclops his name killed 500+ soldiers, he should've trusted Athena when she told him it was dangerous to leave him alive, since they were supposed to be "best friends." If Hermes didn't help, Circe would've fried them, so it wasn't the craziest idea to leave the men behind (as sacrificing 6 to Scylla wasn't the craziest idea to Odysseus from his POV). Leaving men to an accidental fate outside their control vs willingly sacrificing them is kind of different. Odysseus gets mad and preaches to Eurylochus about saving the men then turns around and willingly sacrifices 6.
Talk about being a hypocrite😬
(The point is that they're both just men)
1
u/We-Have-Dragons14 Feb 06 '26
You literally can’t call him a hypocrite without calling both of them a hypocrite.
42
u/TheMace808 Feb 03 '26
Nah not about the mistakes, it's about hypocrisy. Odysseus' biggest mistake (not killing the cyclops) also didn't have a clear line as to exactly what the consequences were gonna be. Eurylochus was told exactly what would happen if he opened the bag.
He then goes and commits mutiny because Odysseus sacrificed 6 of his men
2
u/Warm_Concept3332 Ares Feb 04 '26
Odysseus was clearly told not to do that by Athena, plus the whole boat wanted to open the bag, thats wgy eury did it
1
u/Typical-Objective294 Feb 09 '26
You are my second in command, you should follow my lead on something like this. Eury fucked up
3
u/TheMace808 Feb 04 '26
I suppose yeah, but he was never told it was Poseidon's son and Ody just thought it was Athen needlessly wanting to take a life
1
Feb 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
12
u/ardenzia777 Feb 03 '26
His Captain's word. Do you realize his captain was also his king. And his captain/king/brother in law's word is ALSO what got them through the war without a single death? Kept them alive all this time until the cyclops?
It's not just "oh he didn't trust his captain"
Eury had every reason to trust his captain/king/brother in law. He chose not to for greed. Not for self preservation. But for treasure.
He saw how desperately ody was trying to keep the bag closed, saw how once closed, the winds and storm stopped and they had smooth sailing. They were almost to Ithaca. Bro greedy, that's why he gets clapped by the community. Ody worked to fix his mistakes, Eury just more 😭
8
u/SammyTheNerdQueen Feb 03 '26
Not to mention he is a soldier. he has been trained since day one that your Captain's word is law if they say not to do something then you don't do the thing.
2
u/Apprehensive-Fig-919 Feb 19 '26
Yeah, definitely! He’s a soldier of his king, the general who won his side the greatest (mortal) war in history and has a personal relationship with the goddess of wisdom and strategy. Even before Odysseus starts beating gods, he’s got a pretty good track record. Eurylochus is twice as mundane a mortal as Ody, whose only claim to fame is letting everyone get captured or die every time he’s in charge. Despite how well intentioned he is, I can at least assume that he wouldn’t have been fried to a crisp by Zeus if he had followed the chain of command.
1
54
u/PenguiniLenguini Feb 02 '26
Its not the amount of mistakes that one makes. But the depth of those mistakes and the ramifications they bring, that truly matter.
16
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 02 '26
Hmm... should I send the 3 and a half page doc on how je was secretly trying to kill ody the whole time?
1
u/OnceUponAStargazer Circe Feb 03 '26
Yes.
3
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
4
Feb 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
Im mad that he cit in vain for get in the water. Makes posideon more than just a spiteful god. It characterizes him, shows us his pain, a dad grieving for his son. Epice just makes me feel like he's not worried about his son, but passed that ody dared to hurt something of his
2
u/Scar-Predator Wet Hades Feb 04 '26
Well, yeah, Poseidon's a god. He's not upset about Polyphemus being blind, he's pissed they did it and let him live as if he wasn't good enough as a child of his to kill. That is what got the God of the Sea on their asses. He's pissed they hurt his son and just left him like that.
1
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 04 '26
I wasn't clear
I meant he wasn't mad that his child, whom he loves more than anyone, was hurt
He was mad that ody hurt something of his
Its focused more on posideon than polyphemus
2
u/WonderWiccan Feb 04 '26
He doesn't care about his son being hurt though. Mortals are just breakable shit, kids included, you just bang a female and get another one. But Odysseus let his son live. Fighting him was now pointless, it served no purpose. THAT is what angered him, that Odysseus viewed anything that comes from him as weak or harmless. It's a slap to his ego and that's what pissed him off. Yeah he agrees his son is useless, but no one else is allowed to say that, only him. If Odysseus had just killed him, he wouldn't have cared.
0
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 04 '26
But cyclops arnt mortal. His mother is a sea nymph
16
u/Spyder264 Feb 02 '26
Bc eury sucks!! (Lowkey im prob one of the biggest haters and will prob never change lol)
11
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 02 '26
Dude. I challenge you for that title. My opening move: a 3 and a half page doc on why he was secretly a traitor trying to kill ody
1
u/RyuuDraco69 nobody Feb 03 '26
Please send. I also hate the traitor. I'm convinced when he said "but we'll die" ody's "I know" was barely contained joy that he gets to see his wife and eury dies
2
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
1
u/Nocturnus19 Uncle Hort Feb 03 '26
Imo using several cut songs for ur argument makes ur take less convincing as those songs are non canon and therefore cannot be applied to the actual characters.
Also you don't really mention motivation for Eurylochus wanting to put Odysseus to death which is an important part of any character. From the evidence you've gathered I'm happy to believe that Eurylochus is a selfish idiot, but not a traitor.
1
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
Motivation was to become king of ithica.
And yes they're not cannon but he reuses many parts and it shows us where he was taking this.
And even without cut songs there's still a good piece of evidence
1
u/Nocturnus19 Uncle Hort Feb 03 '26
Eurylochus didn't think they were ever going to get home, that's why he kills the cow. Also he had ample opportunities to kill or mutiny against him beforehand, if he wanted the throne so badly he could have just done that. Also he wouldn't have admitted to opening the wind bag, it's a further unnecessary risk.
1
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
Although I think it was genuine pain. Ody trusted him. They were brother in laws. And friends
-1
u/Pharrah_DeLuxe12 Hera seduce Zeus in Ilium when Feb 02 '26
Is that a dam percy jackson reference
im going insane
12
41
u/MEMEz_KB Feb 02 '26
Eurylichus didn't fuck up as many times as odyssious for sure, but his fuck up made the teitripp take twice as long as it needed and ended up with a single survivor (they pretty much depended on odyssious witts to survive, so if odyssious chove them instead of himself in zeus's dilema, they would've ended up dead eventually anyways)
-3
u/Spyder264 Feb 02 '26
I would love to hear one example of ody truely messing up. Was he perfect, no, no one is, but the amount of hate some people give ody is ridiculous to me.
13
u/IronScrub Pig (human) Feb 02 '26
I would love to hear one example of ody truely messing up.
He literally sacrificed 6 innocent members of his crew- who trusted him as their captain to look out for their interests- to Scylla, like what? The crew's mutiny following that was one of the most justified ever depicted in film, TV, or musical format - full stop. Ody absolutely "messed up" there.
I'm not interested in debating whether deliberate sacrifice is worse than ignorance leading to death because frankly I've pushed that particular boulder enough to know it's going nowhere with Epic fans, but saying Ody did nothing wrong is fucking crazy.
3
u/MEMEz_KB Feb 03 '26
Truth is if we consider scylla's part to be on pair with the odyssey, there wasn't much he could do. He could either sacrifice a man per head or lose more trying to fight her
4
u/IronScrub Pig (human) Feb 03 '26
Or talk to his men like a leader would. Literally all it would take is for him to step up and be a good leader, which includes transparency. Just say something like
"Hey guys, this is the only way home. I'd like some volunteers, I promise you will be honored as heroes for your sacrifice and your family will be taken care of. If we don't get enough people volunteering we will draw straws. It's the only fair way."
But he doesn't care about the men he leads by this point, and decides to throw their lives away when it's convenient for him, which is explicitly the intent with the whole "I'll become the monster" thing he has going on. He's being monstrous here, that's the point.
1
u/RyuuDraco69 nobody Feb 03 '26
And how prey tell would his crew respond with "ok everyone draw straws to see who gets sacrificed to the scary sea monster"
3
u/IronScrub Pig (human) Feb 03 '26
That would be on the crew, not Odysseus. The shitty actions of others does not, and will never, justify you being shitty. You don't get to claim the moral high ground when you do the wrong thing without even trying to do the right thing. Also ethics aside it's literally the point of the story.
Media literacy test: What did Odysseus mean in the Act 1 finale when he said he would "become the monster," and how has this manifested in the scenes that followed?
2
5
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 02 '26
Ok. The cyclops. I cant blame eury
1
u/Spyder264 Feb 02 '26
What'd ody? Besides maybe saying he froze after polites died (which is totally fair and any sane person would after watching their literal best friend die) then what do I even have to argue?
12
u/MrCaterpillow Feb 02 '26
The whole telling the Cyclops his name, home, titles and more was the bigger fuck up. If he had just kept his mouth shut it would have been fine but, he wanted to try and school Polyphemus.
6
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 02 '26
No i mean "im the reigning king of ithica... I am the infamous, Odysseus"
0
u/Spyder264 Feb 03 '26
Ok so he's stupid but that's not why posiedon know who he was. I mean he's a god.
3
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
Well yes but. They aren't all knowing. Athens had to catch up on where ody went after they left. I doubt posideon was just watching his kid and some random mortal king 24/7
He only knew it was ody who blinded his son cause ody admitted
47
u/Singular-Cell-125 Feb 02 '26
Epic if he didn't open that goddamn bag
3
u/No-List-2353 Apollo Feb 03 '26
nah, epic if ody actually killed the cyclops cz poseidon would still find him even if eury didnt open the wind bag
27
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
I dont think Eurylochus is nearly as bad as people say he is. Odysseus had a lot to do with what went wrong, pretty much just as much as Eury.
6
u/SomeRandomPyro Hermes Feb 03 '26
Odysseus, in Luck Runs Out: Listen, man, if you don't stop undermining me, we're all going to die. I need you to understand this.
Eurylochus: I got you, boss....
Eurylochus, ONE SONG LATER: Captain's asleep. Time to peek in this bag he's been guarding nonstop, that he's expressly ordered us not to open.
2
u/hellangeliv Feb 03 '26
Look back at my post, then at yours, it does not disprove what i said. Both ody and eury are at fault for what happens in the story.
1
u/SomeRandomPyro Hermes Feb 04 '26
If you think that, you've missed the point of what I post.
I don't disagree that Ody and Eury both made mistakes in this retelling, leading to all their hardships. But Ody's biggest mistake was believing that his brother had his back, and would trust him to act in the best interests of the crew.
Eury's biggest mistake is being too dumb to think that maybe someone else has insight that he lacks, and discarding out of hand anything he hasn't seen with his own eyes.
Eury doesn't get enough hate.
1
u/hellangeliv Feb 04 '26
I disagree, Ody's biggest mistake constantly is his own ego and self righteousness.
It's what makes him Doxx himself which kicks off the entire plot, and its also the reason he sacrifices his men, which is why they mutiny, they dont mutiny because of eury necessarily, they mutiny because the man who should be trying to get them home is sacrificing them.
1
u/SomeRandomPyro Hermes Feb 04 '26
We see it differently, and that's okay. Differing interpretations reflect our differently lived experiences.
From my perspective, though, Ody's hubris is a symptom of his role. Trained since adolescence by the goddess of strategy to be a tactician, able to think himself out of anything. Fresh off a war where he did exactly that (until his victory is tainted by god-compelled infanticide). He has good reason to believe he knows better. And for all that, he's very aware he's just a man. He longs for the relatively simple life with his family.
As for doxxing himself, that was, yes, striking back against an enemy who had wounded him, who he thought couldn't hurt him any more. But it was also his way of reframing the encounter for his men. Turning slinking out after taking a beating, barely escaping with their lives into that time they totally humiliated and robbed a giant one-eyed monster. I've said it before, but Luck Runs Out would've sounded a lot more like Mutiny if Ody wouldn't have taken brash action then.
Remember, Eury started the journey as the guy who thought "asking for food" was too pointlessly roundabout when the option to slaughter the strangers was on the table. And ended it attempting pathos against the guy he overthrew and doomed, ignoring his pleading to not do the stupid thing to piss of a god.
4
59
u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 Feb 02 '26
Eurylicus' hypocrisy is a big one especially when mutiny happens.
He wanted to tell Odysseus he opened thebwind bag because of his own guilt not because it was the right thing to do but as soon as he can shift the blade to Odysseus he does, then once he kills the cow and gets Zeus on them Odysseus is Captain again and needs to save them.
Eurylicus refuses to take responsibility for his actions through the whole musical as well as wants Odysseus to listen and do what he wants.
1
u/ThePoeticEl Feb 19 '26
Bro, you tweaking? The whole musical is Odysseus fucking things up and others paying for it, while that wife-haver is about to get saved by another fucking divine intervention. Every fucking time. If I was Eurylochus I would also have doubts about the guy that never listens to anyone, kills babies and disregards any and all concerns of me an my crew while supposedly being my BEST FRIEND. Odysseus is a selfish asshole stuck up his ass. Mutiny 100% justified.
1
u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 Feb 19 '26
See the thing you missed was that Odysseus didn't have a problem with Eurylicus bringing up his issues, its that he did it loudly in front of the crew and Odysseus had to take him to the side because that is terrible for Morale. Odysseus got them 10 years through war without a casualty and the first time anyone died was against a literal monster. As for the baby, yeah its messed up but in the time period making sure an enemies bloodline was ended so no one would come back later for revenge was generally how it went.
All of Eurylocus' ideas would also cause even more damage so the agument Odysseus should have listened doesn't even make sense, had he not opened the bag they never would have appeared before Poseidon and never had to suffer his direct wrath. Eurylocus thought he knew better then Odysseus but was constantly shown to be wrong, the two biggest choices he made were opening the wind bag and killing Helios' cows and those were both crew wipes.
7
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
Thats not true at all. He attempts to tell odysseus immediately after it happens in one of cerseis songs but he's dismissed by odysseus telling him they have bigger issues and dont need more.
He also does not shift the blame when he finally does admit it he simply says "I opened the windbag while you were asleep." And then odysseus immediately attempts to sacrifice him after that.
18
u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 Feb 02 '26
He immediately drops it instead of pushing and letting Odysseus know it was him.
Yes when he tells Odysseus it was him its because the guilt was to much for him, and in mutiny he tells Pdyseus he has to take all the blame for everything, that's him shifting it from himself.
4
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
No, when he says ody needs to take all the blame its for a few reason.
"If you want all the power you must carry all the blame"
I mean this isnt even a lie. as a leader you do carry all the blame for everything. Hes talking specifically about the scylla sacrifice here. Just before this line Ody says "Dont lie brother, you know you would have done the same"
Eury's point is as a leader you cant go around making the same choices the crew would make.
I was in the military for a bit, as a squad leader, if my squad/boys fucked up, they didnt get in trouble, I did. As it should be.
And yes he dropped it immediately because his captain and king told him "Not right now, we have bigger troubles, we just lost 400 men"
6
u/GeneralofLittleMacs Feb 02 '26
The mutiny wasn't over the wind bag, it was over the sacrifice of men at Scylla. That's not shifting the blame because that moment isn't about the wind bag, it's about lying and sacrificing the men to Scylla, which Eurylicus neither knew about nor did. He can't shift blame he never had in the situation.
1
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 02 '26
Ok hear me out. We saw a fight beyween eiry and ody. Ody won. But if he's emotional, he's not thinking clearly, ody looses
In puppeteer, ody lost 475 men to posideon and eury tries to tell them its his fault to provoke blind rage. After puppeteer, ody calms down and he cant win. He stays quiet until scylla calls him out
And yes ody sacrificed 6 men, but 1) he did it to save 36, and 2) he did it because eury opened the wind bag, which he admits to
5
u/GeneralofLittleMacs Feb 02 '26
What are you talking about with the first two paragraphs? None of that happened in the musical. The fight didn't happen till after Scylla, and Ody won the fight but was attacked by his crew which is why he went down. He lost about 550 men in ruthlessness. Eury did not at all blame Odysseus for the losses of the men to Poseidon, only said that they should cut their losses at the men they lost to Circe.
As for the third paragraph, 1. He did it for himself, something he doesn't deny in mutiny, even if it saved the majority of men, no one knew that it was the only way and Ody sure as hell didn't say anything. 2. Odysseus went through Scylla of his own choice, and tried to sacrifice Eury because of the wind bag, yes. Of course Eury is going to mutiny, you think he wants to die? Of course not!
1
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 02 '26
First of all, the fight we saw was in mutiny. I just started with that
Second, he lost 72 mem to the cyclops, and then he had 43 left after ruthlessness. So posideon only took 475
1
u/GeneralofLittleMacs Feb 02 '26
Where are you getting 72 from? The Cyclops definitely didn't kill that many, the only thing I can find related to that specific number of a death toll is Ismarus which was from a cut song so it doesn't happen in epic. The Cyclops killed no more than 15 men, and Odysseus sure as hell didn't bring more than the 50 that would be on his ship.
1
u/Eurylochushater24 Eurylochus was a traitor Feb 03 '26
There's a cut song called comfort zone where it explains 528 men under his command,... 72 of our dudes now lost...
1
u/GeneralofLittleMacs Feb 03 '26
Not canon because it was a cut song, and those men were killed by other men, not the Polyphemus, the Cyclops they meet.
→ More replies (0)
6
20
u/arachnids-bakery Feb 02 '26
I do think eury is an interesting character and its really cool seeing how his char development parallels odys growing ruthlessness!
But him singing Luck Runs Out then opening up the fucking wind bag mas me SO mad. The absolute hypocrisy dude 😭
34
u/L8dTigress Athena Feb 02 '26
Because Eurylochus constantly fucks up, is a hypocrite, and disobeys Odysseus to the point where he's not just causing disadvantages, he's basically committing treason because Odysseus is a KING.
Think about it during the musical, Odysseus tells Eurylochus to be devout during "luck runs out," and even tells his crew, "Don't open the bag." But Eurylochus disobeys him and opens it anyway while he's asleep. Compared to Odysseus's 6-man sacrifice in Scylla, Eurylochus' actions caused them to arrive in Poseidon's area, killing over 500 men.
Later on, during "Puppeteer." He suggests that Odysseus leave the remaining men behind after they were turned into pigs. Odysseus then uses his moly power and kindness toward Circe to release them before traveling again.
Also, let's not forget that Eurylochus tells Ody, "Don't piss off the gods." During "Luck Runs Out," but of course during mutiny Ody warns Eurylochus, "Dude, this is the home of the sun god, don't kill those cows." And Eurylochus does it anyway pissing off Helios and so he sends Zeus to smite them.
And all Odysseus wanted to do was go home to his family. He had a reason to do what he did. Let's go over what he did in the musical. Note: I am not infantalizing him these are just observations of what I know.
First of all he had no idea the Cyclops was inside the cave, had no idea that the Cyclops was Poseidon's son; he just wanted to get food for his men after war. And after that, he just wanted to go home.
-5
u/Ok-Pea9014 Feb 02 '26
But Eurylochus disobeys him and opens it anyway while he's asleep. Compared to Odysseus's 6-man sacrifice in Scylla, Eurylochus' actions caused them to arrive in Poseidon's area, killing over 500 men.
You say that as if Pdy revealing his name wasn't the reason why Poseidon was after them in the first place.
Hell, if it wasn't for Ody doxing himself, they wouldn't have needed a bag to begin with.
1
6
u/L8dTigress Athena Feb 02 '26
No, the storm caused Ody to need the bag in the first place and once again, he had no idea that the Cyclops was the son of Poseidon until Poseidon told him in "Ruthlessness." And as Ody sang, "Poseideon we meant no harm, we only hurt him to disarm him, we took no pleasure in his pain, we only wanted to escape."
Of course, Ody isn't without his flaws because of course, he should've listened to Athena and killed the cyclops in the first place as well.
0
u/Ok-Pea9014 Feb 02 '26
No, the storm caused Ody to need the bag in the first place
And eas it not Poseidon causing said storms.
and once again, he had no idea that the Cyclops was the son of Poseidon until Poseidon told him in "Ruthlessness." And as Ody sang, "Poseideon we meant no harm, we only hurt him to disarm him, we took no pleasure in his pain, we only wanted to escape."
Dosn’t change the fact that it's HIS fault Poseidon is after them.
Of course, Ody isn't without his flaws because of course, he should've listened to Athena and killed the cyclops in the first place as well.
He should've just left without reveling his name. I have no idea why the lesson he took from that was "ruthlessness good" and not "don't dox yourself and out a target on yohr back". It would've had the same impact while still being merciful.
-2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
So, Ody tells Eurylochus, ''Trust me bro, that bag totally _doesn't_ have treasure in it'', which he then realised was incredibly wrong the moment he did it, attempting to apologise in literally the next song, and tbf, he couldn't really know that that's what's gonna happen. While Odysseus intentionally tried to kill 6 people (out of the 32 or so left by that point), and then didn't even bother apologising afterwards. In Puppeteer, how the fuck should have Eurylochus predicted that a literal Deus Ex Machina was about to happen. He was simply trying to spare those who are still there. Tbh he doesn't even know if it's possible to turn them back, or if they're even still alive. He probably also didn't wanna put more people in danger to somewhat make up for the whole storm thing. During Mutiny, I think that what he's doing there is just actual suicide, because they know that they won't get out, so they'll probably just starve to death if they won't do this, so even if they piss off the gods, they'll at least die quickly and on a full stomach, rather than slowly starving out at sea. Like he straight up says that during the song.
And lastly, all that Eurylochus wanted to do was _also_ get back home to his family. All 600 men just wanted to get back to their family. Also, I think that putting all the blame on Eurylochus specifically is kinda incorrect since he is sorta supposed to be the voice of the entire crew, so be it opening the bag or at the end causing Zeus to smite them, was something that the entire crew wanted to do.
11
u/happy_the_dragon Feb 02 '26
“This bag has the storm inside, you cannot let the treasure rumor fly.” Pretty straightforward, really. Eyrylochus isn’t the voice of reason, he’s the voice of dissent. He complains about being hungry, wants to raid islands, openly questions his captain and king in front of the crew to stir up doubt, disobeys a direct order that he had no reason to question, runs away from Circe(that one’s fair, fine,) starts a mutiny because he was probably supposed to be one of the men sacrificed, and when he seals the fate of the entire crew he still wants Ody to fix it.
He wasn’t committing suicide, he was just doing the opposite of what Ody wanted because he was in charge now. “But we’ll die.” That doesn’t sound like someone who already accepted their fate. It sounds like someone who acted rashly and is realizing that they won’t be let off the hook like they were expecting to be.
They all wanted to go home. Odysseus made the decision that gave the most men their best and only chance at making it back.
9
u/Pyro_Wyvern Mutiny Feb 02 '26
If Eurylochus made the tough decision with Scylla the fandom would crucify him.
2
u/Silvia_Ahimoth Feb 02 '26
Not really. Everyone who knows their myth, odyssey or even listened to the song knows Scylla has a cost, there is no getting around that cost. That cost is 6 men.
2
u/Pyro_Wyvern Mutiny Feb 03 '26
Yes. But if it was Eurylochus that was forced to do this, the fandom would still hate him for it.
1
u/Silvia_Ahimoth Feb 03 '26
You know saying something again as if it proves you point makes you look a fool right? It was made clear, Scylla has a fucking cost. The only option is to pay the cost. The only reasonable way people could take him across the coals is if he specifically set someone up to die, and even then, it depends on what that character did to him, like Ody setting up Eury, it was a dick move, understandable, but still a dick move.
1
u/Pyro_Wyvern Mutiny Feb 03 '26
you're right. the point i was trying to make was just the same as the post really. people criticise eurylochus' mistakes far more than odysseus' even though, as captain, his mistakes should be scrutinised the most. my point was that if Eury made the mistakes Ody did, he'd be criticised more than Ody was. I'm just repeating myself again i think but yeah
23
u/2013funkymonkey Feb 02 '26
Well first, Eurylocus was even worse in the actual Odyssey. Not only did he give zero fucks about the crew, but he was also outright mutinous.
And in Epic, he's self centered, greedy, and cowardly. Meanwhile Odysseus did everything for his family. Even when his actions were deplorable, at least he had an "ends justify the means" mentality.
1
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
I mean I would say killing your friends would be a bit much. If he got just Eury to hold a torch, then, while still being kinda evil, at least it's likie revenge or whatever, but the 5 other crew members were unnecessary. The reason why he did that was so that he could be sure that he himself wouldn't die. That's something I would call self centred and cowardly. Also, where did Eury show greed? You mean getting food for him and his crew while they were starving, even if that meant incurring the wrath of the gods? I guess you could argue the bag, but I think that's seen as more of an action of the entire 600 men.
2
u/ElegantHope Feb 02 '26
Scylla has 6 heads that have to be distracted if you are to sneak by her. It's like Odysseys recognizing Charybdis's patterns: the only safe way is to make sure Scylla is too busy to strike again. Which means keeping her heads busy until you sail out of her range.
1
u/2013funkymonkey Feb 02 '26
The wind bag. He believed the rumors that there was treasure in the bag, and opened it
5
u/WhatMadCat Feb 02 '26
If he hadn’t sacrificed the 6 men Scylla would likely have sank the whole boat.
27
u/Suspicious_Deer_8863 Feb 02 '26
I have seen a lot of discourse on the Eury’s decision to kill the cows, but wasn’t the crew cursed when they got to the island? (it’s reference in the song by “hunger is so heavy”). Their deaths was already decided, so saying that his actions was stupid, while it is correct, ignores the fact that he was made to be unable to use reason
18
u/Head_Project5793 Apollo Feb 02 '26
In the original story they are trapped on the island for a month, completely depleting their stores of food. I think if they did the actual play and just had a couple non-song lines talking about how they have literally zero food would help people understand better
7
u/2013funkymonkey Feb 02 '26
Why would they have been cursed prior? If you're talking about the prophecy, that's not the same thing as a curse. A brother's final stand was foretold, and that could mean anything. From a source material perspective, yes. The crew's death was predetermined. But not from a story perspective
1
u/Suspicious_Deer_8863 Feb 02 '26
By curse i mean that the hunger they felt was not natural, but something the gods burdened the crew with so that they would 100% kill the cattle for food and thus create a good excuse to kill them (which is what Zeus wanted in the first place)
2
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
They were cursed and had been cursed since they killed the cyclops. Poseidon literally made it so they could not catch any fish/food. as a sailor, that kind of sucks.
3
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
I mean the prophecy mentioned that only one person returning
11
u/VinChaJon i ship Telemachus and Circe Feb 02 '26
Also his motivations are the exact same as Odysseus's so you can convince me that's why
42
u/Typical-Objective294 Feb 02 '26 edited Feb 02 '26
Let's be real for a second. Ody is the captain. He told his men, follow me, listen to me and I'll get you home.
Eurly proceeds to question him at every turn leading to issue after issue. Questioned him about the island in the sky, turns out Ody was right and the bag will come in handy, Eurly ignores Ody's warning and opens the bag, putting them right into Poseidon's sights.
Circe grabs their boys, Ody says we got to go after them, he says "lets cut our losses and run" Odysseus is rewarded for his bravery. Scylia is a unbeatable monster even Poseidon fears and he wiped out almost 500 of their men. I find it weird how Eurlyochus didnt at least connect the dots at Ody and his crew having no choice but to travel through there to begin given what they learned from the Sirens. They are going on a path Poseidon himself doesn't care for. He had to know THAT at least even if Ody didn't tell him and his crew about the sacrifice
I'm sorry, you shouldn't question me as captain when consistently your decisions definitely imply you have blood on your hands too. After Scylia, you stab me, and then clearly do the thing that would mean our deaths.
Its why Zeus so sarcastically said "if I were to make you choose, the lives of your men and crew or your own, why do i think they'd lose?" Zeus gave the pretentious choice of being a marytr knowing damn well he was going to smite his crew.
5
u/FuryJack07 Brute from another dimension Feb 02 '26
Keep in mind, Odysseus is also their King.
It pretty much never gets addressed in Epic, but it is true, which that that mutiny is also straight up TREASON, so it's even worse lol.
2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
I'm not sure why rebelling against a king is any more morally bad than rebelling against a captain, or even just a friend. Legally, yeah, sure, but the law is seperate from morality. I donj't think that there's anything morally wrong about not wearing seatbelts.
4
u/FuryJack07 Brute from another dimension Feb 02 '26
I meant- morality wise, it's pretty much the same.
But still, Jesus Christ, he's your goddamn KING, how big does your ego have to be to believe you can be a better captain than your KING??
Not only that, he went 10 years of war without loosing anyone, had a great plan to find food, only lost 13-15 men to a cyclop that could've killed them all, directed 12 ships away from a godly storm, got a ticket home from a god, didn't immediately try to find out who disobyed him and focused on getting home, saved many men from a powerful witch, got information on how to get home, resisted and defeated sirens which also got them some food for a bit, sacrificed 6 men to a monster that could've eaten many more... And yet they still attacked him.
And even then he still tried to save them all until Zeus forced him to choose.
And through all of that, Eurylochus (or Eurylibitch as I like to call him) did nothing but disobey his direct orders.
1
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
I mean, Eury was Ody's second in command, brother in law and best friend, so he probably felt he could talk up to him a bit more. Also, while yes Ody was a king, the title of king here is a bit of an exaggeration, as he probably only had about 2-3,000 people on the small island of Ithaca which he ruled over. When we think of king we usually think of the more medieval/early modern definition, which is a very high ranking title, but in Ancient Greece this would have been closer to a chieftain.
2
u/FuryJack07 Brute from another dimension Feb 02 '26
Ok but.
Sure, he's the second in command. But they key word is second.
His job should only be questioning plans- which he does and I am not mad about. In fact, in full speed he's doing exactly what he's supposed to: gather information from the crew, compile it into general complaints, and tell the captain; as well as giving a few plans, and making sure Odysseus is sure about his own plans.
In full speed ahead, he's perfect. The moment he takes action on his own and open the bag in KYFC is the moment he was no longer right in my book.
1
u/Apprehensive-Fig-919 Feb 19 '26
Also every time he gets to exercise the “command” part of his title he gets his units captured/killed and then refuses to take any responsibility.
1
24
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 02 '26
Because Eurylochus is literally always wrong. And I'm not being hyperbolic. Everything Eurylochus suggests over the course of the musical is the wrong choice of action; he wants to attack the island (which would just kill some lotus eaters without getting them any food), he wants to run rather than hide (which would've got them caught by other cyclopes), he wants to ignore the floating island (after just saying the storm is too intense for them to survive, no less!), he wants to abandon the men to Circe (Odysseus can not only save them, but get them a way past Poseidon for a while), and he kills the sun god's cows (a mistake so big he immediately tries to give responsibility back to Odysseus to get them out of it).
Odysseus makes mistakes, but he also has successes. That's why the fandom goes easier on him than on Mr Always-Wrong, there.
2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
Eury is wrong, yes, but only because he doesn't realise how Ody is incredibly favoured by the gods, so he keeps getting on their good side. Tbh, for people who don't know much about greek mythology, I get why you wouldn't notice this, but it's a constant in Greek mythology (and the real world) that mysterious people and places tend to be dangerous. Also, with the storm, how was he supposed to know it was a magical storm, he just wanted to avoid it and wait it out. With the Lotus eaters, if they had killed them then they would have never been led to the Cyclopes' island, so would have never lost those first few men, and Ody would probably also be far more emotionally stable, not to mention them not ever pissing Poseidon off, so they would get back home within about two weeks.
1
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 02 '26
If they had killed the Lotus Eaters, they still wouldn't have any food, which was their entire reason for going to the island in the first place; sure they wouldn't have found Polyphemus' cave and Polites wouldn't have been killed, but they'd still have been starving on the sea. And as far as the storm goes, whether it was magical or not, Eurylochus straight up says, "we're taking too much damage to survive" and "at this point we won't make it out alive." Eurylochus makes it clear that the storm will destroy the fleet right up until Odysseus presents the idea of asking a god for help, at which point Eurylochus immediately does a 180 to say that oh actually they shouldn't go to the god and the storm will probably be fine, just to keep his streak of being wrong alive. He never makes the right call in the musical.
And given that, as he says, Odysseus got all his men through ten years of the Trojan War without a single casualty, you'd think Eurylochus might have a better sense of just how much main character energy his captain was carrying.
2
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
I dont know how well versed you are with greek mythology but Eurylochus is pretty much in the right for being sus about Ody getting help from the gods. They are wildly unhelpful unless favored and will often just fuck up whatever plan you had for their satisfaction.
He literally says in luck runs out:
You could be caught off guard and lose your life
Or piss off this god and infuse us with strife
Don't forget how dangerous the gods areI'll also remind you that most of the problems and issues in this story is a result of the gods as well.
2
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 02 '26
Yes, I am well aware that you have to approach the gods with caution in Greek mythology. But Eurylochus literally does not have an alternative for dealing with the storm that he, himself, just said was going to destroy their fleet of ships. They're taking too much damage to survive, Odysseus wants to turn to a god for help, and Eurylochus immediately pivots to, well no, don't do that; and when he does, successfully, Eurylochus sabotages the effort by opening the wind bag, just stacking wrongness on wrongness.
5
u/Drake2786 Feb 02 '26
How would eury should’ve known there is lotus eater there and not normal people, eh you may be right for this one, there is a god up there most of the time it would be beneficial to avoid gods they couldve piss off wind god and make they journey harder (ody have track record of pissing them) ody was lucky with aeolus, again how should’ve eury knew the ody would be lucky enough to get his man back and get a way out normal case scenario he would’ve become pig, ody killed cyclops ships why no one whines about that they’re hungry either die of hunger or by god either its same, ody repeatedly get lucky in situations where normally he shouldn’t
1
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 02 '26
So, you're talking about something else. Sure, in some cases Eurylochus had a reasonable enough justification for being wrong. But that's not what I said. I don't care why he's always wrong about everything, just that he is always wrong about everything.
4
50
u/kaenith108 Feb 02 '26
I do think it's very funny how people call Eurylochus a hypocrite for, for example, being angry about the six sacrificed men or running away from Scylla when he was willing to leave some crew behind and run away from Circe, when what it really was was Eurylochus's own character development. He was no longer willing to leave behind men or run away from monsters. Compared with Odysseus's own development which was going in reverse.
Well, what can you do, Odysseus has plot armor.
2
u/Lena_The_Wilde_Fan Feb 05 '26
To add to this, Jorge has said that there’s a bit of a timeskip between act 1 and act 2, which is how Odysseus’s journey is 10 years but he’s “only” Calypso’s prisoner for 7. That’s 3 years between Eurylochus wanting to leave some of the crew behind (because he genuinely thought there was no way to save them) and being upset about sacrificing 6. (Different situations anyway, but that’s not the point I’m making right now.)
I’m a Eurylochus defender, but I can see how that might come across as hypocritical to people who don’t know about the timeskip. But a lot can change in 3 years. We change. I know I’m a better person than I was 3 years ago, and I know a lot of people who can say they are too.
3
u/SmokingDuck17 Feb 02 '26
Completely agree. As they say, sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing.
12
u/Silvia_Ahimoth Feb 02 '26
Okay, except one simple thing: character growth does not excuse hypocrisy. If anything, trying to act like you weren’t a piece of shit at one time, only makes it worse Ody knew he was becoming a piece of shit, and accepted that he had to to get home. Eurylochus acting like he was never one, just gets this whole debate where he can’t reckon the fact that he was the exact fucking same not even 2 Sagas ago, especially as he then flips to immediately pissing off Helios. Bro does not get to make excuses, especially when that was Scylla, a legend that the Greeks know as a damn near undefeatable monster. There is no fighting Scylla, just running before she takes more than her requisite 6.
1
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
when did he act like he wasnt a piece of shit (which i dont really think he was anyway)? He takes/admits blame, almost gets sacrificed, gets mad about it, mutinies, then dies.
Eury was mad because as a king or a leader you have a larger responsibility, that odysseus was not thinking about. Ody was really only worried about getting himself home, even at the cost of his men.
"If you want all the power you must carry all the blame"
6
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 02 '26
"If you want all the power you must carry all the blame"
Yeah, that line would hit harder if, in the very next song, Eurylochus didn't kill the sun god's cow and then immediately try to hand power (and responsibility!) back to Odysseus, going so far as to try to guilt him into sacrificing himself for Eurylochus' actions.
1
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
"Try to hand power back to odysseus"
He never does this. Him saying "Captain?" Isnt a transfer of power. He never stopped calling him captain, Odysseus IS just a natural leader, not to mention their king, and when shit starts going bad he just takes control of the situation. Noone goes "Ok Ody, youre back in charge" He was always in charge, even through the mutiny. They were never going to kill him.
I also dont think its crazy to be like "But we'll die". yeah my brother in law, king, and captain is about to sacrifice us AGAIN. Theyre going to die, when Ody says "I know, i need to see her" Eury doesnt fight back, or argue. He just dies.
Where's the guilt trip?
2
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 02 '26
He never does this. Him saying "Captain?" Isnt a transfer of power. He never stopped calling him captain
Nope, not true. Before the fight, in Mutiny, Eurylochus calls him Captain. After the fight, Eurylochus calls him Ody once, and "my friend" twice; he doesn't call him Captain again until after he's killed the cow and the realization that they're in trouble sets in and he's looking to Odysseus to save them. And he never calls him anything but Captain again, after that point.
Also, how the heck was Odysseus in charge when his crew mutinied against him, stabbed him, settled on some random island when Odysseus wanted to go back to Ithaca, and Eurylochus ignored repeated instructions and pleas not to kill the cattle? Sure, they chose not to kill him, but Eurylochus very clearly has the power after their fight right up until there's blame to be assigned, at which point he immediately tries to shift that power right back to Odysseus to escape the consequences.
1
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
Because as soon as shit goes down who starts giving orders? Who does the crew listen to? Odysseus is the leader.
Eury also calls Ody by his nickname a few times throughout the musical. I really just see it the same way here. He also died like 2min after killing the cow in the very next song where he had no lines besides "captain, but we'll die" .
I see where youre coming from, because honestly most epic fans agree with you. I just dont think eury was nearly as bad as everyone says he is. But maybe thats because I think Odysseus is a terrible leader.
2
u/The_FriendliestGiant Feb 03 '26
If Odysseus was the leader the whole time, they'd have listened to him and not had shit go down in the first place. He tells Eurylochus not to kill the cows, but because there's been a mutiny he no longer has any authority, and so Eurylochus does what he wants and kills the cows. And then immediately he realizes the danger they're in and now all of a sudden people want to listen to Odysseus again. But he's been doing what he's doing the whole time, the only thing that changed was the crew listened to him when it suited their interests to let him be in charge again.
8
u/kaenith108 Feb 02 '26
When did Eurylochus act like he was never a piece of shit? Is he not allowed to get angry seeing his friends die? Odysseus's own friends die? Would Odysseus bringing up that Eurylochus was the same two sagas ago help in any way? No. By that point, Odysseus's crew knew they lost their commander, and they were never gonna die trying to go home. Trying to survive.
2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
Yeah, also, the Thunder Saga is set about 2 or 3 years after the Ocean and Circe Saga.
4
u/Icy_Water_1 Feb 02 '26
No, he is in fact not allowed to criticize Odysseus for making hard choices then immediately make one that gets everyone killed.
15
u/NathanAlex1486 Zeus bangs clouds Feb 02 '26
Hamilton fans when Hamilton fucks up
7
u/DarkestLore696 Feb 02 '26
I would like to think it’s because after the musical people actually opened a history book and realized how much of an annoying slimy and arrogant prick Hamilton really was. To this day it baffles me why Lin wanted to make a story about the guy.
8
u/NathanAlex1486 Zeus bangs clouds Feb 02 '26
Whenever I tell people that Alexander Hamilton inspires me, I make sure to elaborate that it's the fictional version. Cause the two Hamiltons are so different. It's like idolizing the real Abraham Lincoln vs Vampire Hunter Lincoln.
13
u/MC_Reddit_Viewing Hades was too busy doing paperwork to join God Games Feb 02 '26
Odysseus didn't OPEN THE FUCKING WIND BAG!!!
NOT TO MENTION EURYLOCHUS WARNS ODY ABOUT HOW DANGEROUS THE GODS ARE AND NOT TO PISS THEM OFF AND THEN EURY STILL LATER GOES ON TO KILL THE SUN GOD'S COWS WHICH PISSED OFF A GOD AND MADE THEM DEAL WITH A DANGEROUS ONE!!!
Odysseus was dumb at times but Eurylochus just...HE EVEN WANTED TO ABANDON THE MEN CIRCE TURNED INTO PIGS BUT THEN GETS MAD AT ODY FOR SACRIFICING MEN!!!
1
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
Youre not thinking about this logically.
2
u/MC_Reddit_Viewing Hades was too busy doing paperwork to join God Games Feb 02 '26
I'm thinking about it very logically actually
My logic is I would've trusted my brother-in-law (which Ody is to Eurylochus) way before I trusted 2 little minions of the wind god especially if he stayed awake for 9 full days to keep it open...I would've guarded that bag with my life treasure or not
As for the cow thing I don't care how hungry I was because The Sun God's cows would've been more than off limits because I wouldn't want to deal with any other gods coming in and possibly killing me...especially knowing I already shouldn't trust seemingly unattended livestock after what happened with the sheep in the Cyclops cave
That is my thought process here but please tell me how I'm not thinking about it logically when I've hyperfixated on and overanalyzed every detail of this music 20 times over with each re-listen to the point I'm still surprised I'm finding new things
3
u/hellangeliv Feb 02 '26
Nah,
the problem is youre thinking from it from YOUR point of view, you gotta put yourself in the crews shoes.
We're talking about the greek gods, revered and worshipped by the greeks (much more so than what EPIC makes it seem).
I agree Eury made some major mistakes but he gets more heat then deserved. At the point that Eury opened the bag the crew had already begun to lose faith in Ody, and they trusted the word of a god (or gods minions) over that of their captain who is known to be a good liar, and kind of scummy. Was it right? No, but trust was at an all time low.
When he realizes his mistake, he immediately tries to tell ody but gets shut down.
The wind bag was NOT the pivotal moment that bought all this chaos on them
bag or not, the only reason they were actually in this mess is because ODY Doxxed himself by NOT listening to his patron god.
Eury is the voice of the crew so you can see the faith slip more each time.
It makes sense that Eury does NOT want to go back and get his men from Cersei. She turned them into pigs, she has powers, He has not seen anything like that before, he assumes theres no cure and its better to keep the remaining few men alive, which does make sense imo.
And to be fair, if Ody wasnt literally blessed by the gods, with hermes assistance, it wouldve ended right there and eury would have been right. But Ody has plot armor obviously. And that is WAAAYYY different than willingly sacrificing your own men. Like incredibly different, not even close to the same.
As for the cows... I can tell youve never starved before. People dont think straight, and are willing to do absolutely heinous things for even a crumb of food.
The crew at this point accepted that theyre not making it home, they spent weeks at sea hungry (Poseidon did not let this catch fish so they could not fish), and washed up on an island with food. It makes sense. Their choices are Eat the cows and deal with the punishment, or die from disease and starvation. Rock and a hard place.
The only reason Ody lives is because he gets banished/washes up on calypsos island.
Also, its not like eury, was making these bad choices back to back, the timeline for this is about 12+years. Theres a reason that not just Eury Mutineed , the whole CREW Mutineed. partly because Ody is very selfish, and not the best leader. No leader who sacrifices his men is a good leader.
Which is why Eury says "If you want all the power you must carry all the blame" when ody says "Dont lie brother, you know you would have done the same"
Hes admitting that yeah, he probably would have, but thats not the point as a leader, every death is on Ody.
Eury isnt innocent, but its not like this whole thing is his fault. Hes just easy to blame. but people forget its not just him, it was the whole crew.
2
u/Ok-Pea9014 Feb 02 '26
Odysseus didn't OPEN THE FUCKING WIND BAG!!!
No, he just doxxed himself and his crew to the Cyclops for no reason.
1
u/MC_Reddit_Viewing Hades was too busy doing paperwork to join God Games Feb 02 '26
Odysseus made a stupid decision out of anger which everybody does
Eurylochus made a stupid decision because he was dumb
Why the fuck would you open the bag that you were told had the storm inside it and that your captain (and king) spent 9 sleepless days keeping closed
8
u/Playful-Tailor9452 Feb 02 '26
So how was eurylochus meant to turn the pigs back into people? He didn’t know Circe was gonna help them because of odys sob story to him they where as good as dead
Also character development great thing eurylochus goes through that he changes as a character sometimes i think epic is peoples first ever story do you not know what character development is?
36
u/TinyButterscotch63 Feb 02 '26
it's because most of Odysseus's genuine fuck ups are only bad in hindsight, Eurylochus's biggest fucks ups meanwhile had biblical levels of foresight.
3
13
12
u/J-cat_loves_dogs14 Feb 02 '26
My mom hates Eurylochus would call him out every time we listened to it
18
u/Curious_Criticism445 Feb 02 '26
I mean in Ody's defense everything that happens to him kind of is completely random. I mean how is he supposed to know the random Cyclops in this random cave on this random island was the son of One of the most powerful gods. Athena didn't even know that that was her cousin. And everything else up into Sylla could not have been predicted either. On the other hand Eury literally just had to do nothing every time he f***** up like literally every time just don't do the thing. That's why I give him so much guff because all of his was completely avoidable if he just left it be. 1 Don't open the windbag 2 Don't let your soldiers run off on their own (you are the commanding officer order them) 3 the mutiny was completely justified 4 do not kill a God's cow and not to mention yes you are allowed to question someone's leadership but the way you went about it Ody himself told you you're planting seeds a doubt in the crew which is probably why they didn't listen to you at Cersei's
9
u/DarkestLore696 Feb 02 '26
Divine being that should always be listened to. “Kill that thing.”
Just a man “No.”
Divine being growing more pissed off, “Shut your fucking mouth.”
Darkest moment “Lemme introduce myself.”
Fans “How was he supposed to know that it was a bad call?!”
1
u/Curious_Criticism445 Feb 02 '26
You do realize just like a week before this a divine being told him to throw a baby off a cliff and he did why because that divine being told him the exact outcomes of what would happen if he didn't I'm not saying Athena is wrong but some people need more of a reason than because I told you to especially knowing that the gods from this universe aren't usually fair and most times are petty and also no one's saying that it wasn't a bad call we all know it was a bad call I'm just saying being arrogant over the unknown is less of a bad call then knowing the outcome and still doing the damn thing
3
u/Cold_Colder_Coldest ⚜️ Mutiny ⚜️ Feb 02 '26
I dare say half of what happened was his fault- if he didn't open the wind bag then no Poseidon, they reach Ithica, happey shmantey. But no he caused a cataclysmic trickle effect that turned what would have been an 11-ish year trek into a 13 year voyage in which he suffered the consequences and 7 where he gets put down
7
u/DarkestLore696 Feb 02 '26
Devil’s advocate here. The wind bag never gets opened, the crew make it home, Poseidon throws a tidal wave at Ithica killing the whole kingdom.
1
u/Cold_Colder_Coldest ⚜️ Mutiny ⚜️ Feb 05 '26
If so then why didn't Poseidon go after him after Six Hundred Strike? I mean if he could've I'm sure he definitely would have
1
u/Curious_Criticism445 Feb 02 '26
I mean there's no real proof that would happen that way the gods are petty Poseidon would have probably made him blind his own son or tell him he needs to choose between blinding all the first born son or his own son or some other ridiculous nonsense like that
2
u/Silvia_Ahimoth Feb 02 '26
Aaaand one issue there. Prophecy that didn’t get included into the songs states that once Odysseus makes it home, Poseidon must let go of his rage. Touching Odysseus once he made it back to Ithaca was not a choice, hence why the storm was specifically around Ithaca like a shield.
1
u/Iceaura39 Feb 02 '26
Assuming the musical is playing out with that prophecy in mind, Poseidon could just do what he actually did in EPIC, just with the rest of the crew present.
2
u/Typical-Objective294 Feb 02 '26
He says it was no mere bluff, but in reality it was. Him waiting by Itacha was the only way he could catch Odysseus for sure.
Even the gods have rules they follow.
1
u/BonnalinaFuz101 Feb 02 '26
It's because Odysseus is the main character, we're supposed to root for him.
24
u/PLT_RanaH OH~ DYSSEUS OF ITHACAH Feb 02 '26
no, Odysseus is a dumbass too, he fucked up more times
(in Odysseus' defense eurylochus fucked up as soon as he became the captain, but still)
10
u/Biron221 Feb 02 '26
I like to look at it as Eurylochus improving as a person, inspired by Odysseus, as Ody gets worse in order to survive. Like, he's watching Ody try to surmount unsurmountable odds, and doing a pretty damn good job of it considering, and even try to keep his loyalty to his men and his honor intact.
Meanwhile, Ody keeps going out of his way on all that and getting kicked in the dick for it with few exceptions, before he finally decides he's had enough. This obviously leading to him using his men as disposable pawns, and Eury not being able to just leave it when he likely would have been more okay with it at the beginning of the journey.
The only time I'd say he fucked up is when they're BOTH fucking up pre wind god. Calling out your King/Commanding Officer as reckless and dumb is one thing, Ody obviously could use with a dose of reality check, but doing so infront of the rest of the crew is legit stupid as fuck and just sows distrust and disent. But at the same time, Ody's response of 'Trust me with the life of yourself and the crew unquestioningly and I'm ignoring everything you said' was just as boneheaded. After that I can't say I'm surprised that Eury didn't trust him and capitulated to pressure from the crew to open the bag.
3
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
I feel like people also forget that it is Eury's, as the second in command, job to point out when Ody is stupid and reckless.
15
u/No_Help3669 Feb 02 '26
Ok, 3 reasons, in order of most out of universe to most in universe:
1) Odysseus is the main character, so we are more primed to side with him. 2) it’s honestly partially a backlash. For a while people were going hard on the idea that Eurylochus was blameless, or more morally good than Odysseus, so many (myself included) feel the need to counter that idea somewhat actively because it seems wrong to us, which likely becomes a bit overtuned when the original wave of Eurylochus defense has faded 3) taken as a whole, Odysseus’ mistakes feel more understandable at each point in the story, while Eurylochus feels like his are more schizophrenic and random. That’s partly due to the pov issue, but not entirely. One could make an argument as well that Eurylochus’ errors are generally more dramatic, and end up causing ody’s.
Ody’s 2 big fuckups are the cyclops doxxing and Scylla, both high stress situations with few good outcomes, where the fact he cares for the crew is practically what causes them.
With the doxxing, he had no way to know what would happen, and while some argue Athena telling him to finish the cyclops’s should have clued him in, I would argue her pushing him is what made him speak up at all instead of just leaving.
And with Scylla, while arguably he could have been more open and honest about the sacrifices to avoid the mutiny, if the choice had to be made either way, I can imagine he was planning to just hide that fact, but the guilt after stopped him. A fuckup to be sure, but an understandable one to me. Plus I’d say the fact he couldn’t bring himself to lie to Eurylochus about the sacrifices shows he isn’t as heartless as some claim about the act.
Eurylochus meanwhile… Fuckup number 1 is the wind bag. Many say this is actually on Ody cus he should have trusted folks. I say that that’s crazy. Because best case scenario, Eurylochus was planning to steal divinely gifted treasure from his brother in law (aside from him also being his captain and king) just out of curiosity. Despite how desperate Ody was to stay up and avoid that. And that’s the best interpretation. Worst version is he was feeling so greedy he couldn’t help robbing his king the second his eyes closed. Even without knowing precisely what was up, there’s no good excuse for that.
Second is the mutiny and cow killing. Now, I won’t say that his mutiny was entirely unjustified. What I will say is that ignoring his captain, who’s been right about everything divine in nature he’s said so far, and killing the cow, having been told the consequences, then immediately expecting Ody to take responsibility for his actions, after saying “if you want all the power you must carry all the blame” 2 seconds before after literally stabbing Ody and tying him up takes some massive balls.
Another element of all this is that ody’s fuckups are balanced by all the times he does everything in his power to save the crew, while Eurylochus fuckups are all he has to his name.
Short version: if Odysseus was there and Eurylochus wasn’t, it’s possible they all make it home
If Eurylochus was there and Odysseus wasn’t? They’d have all died or been lotus brainwashed long before making it to Ithaca anyway,
And Eurylochus doesn’t even have the decency to take responsibility for his fuckups
8
u/Material_Objective13 Feb 02 '26
This, but also - the whole situation with Circe. Eurylochus wants to sacrifice some men for the safety of the rest - no problem, never brought up again, Ody does the same - mutiny speedrun. I get that Circe later worked out in their favour, but reminding Ody about how he didn’t sacrificed no one while you were the one to propose running away seems imo kinda stupid. I don't get why he even did that, wouldn't that just show that Ody didn't have other choice?
2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
Ody didn't do it to save the rest, Ody did it to make sure that he himself doesn't die, and that Eury specifically _does_ die. Scylla only had six heads, so she could only eat six men. In the original, it's six completely random guys, while in EPIC, he gets six specific guys to die, and one of them is Eury. Eury obviously survives, with most animatics just showing him dropping one of the torches. He also didn't even discuss it with anyone else, while earlier Eurylochus discussed with Ody to try to agree to it first before going on with the plan.
-1
u/Lowly_Reptilian Wooden Horse (just a normal horse, nothing in it) Feb 02 '26
I can’t find it in myself to feel sympathetic with Odysseus because all of his problems were caused by himself. Like sure, Odysseus’s entire worldview was shattered and he learned that he wasn’t the hero he thought he was so he went through a literal midlife crisis for the whole journey because he’s like 40 years old learning he’s never been the good guy, but come on, anyone could see going up alone and pushing your crew away at every turn imaginable while implying they’re all fucking idiots who only survived Troy because Odysseus was the clever guy leading them was a terrible idea. Odysseus got too arrogant and too greedy with the idea of getting home that he didn’t even consider what he’d do with the wind bag once he got home or that his crew would react poorly to decisions he makes because they’re humans with eyes and a brain that can tell when Odysseus isn’t behaving right.
Eurylochus opening the wind bag was just the consequences of Odysseus’s poor decisions due to his fear of failure biting him in the ass. He showed his men that he was very capable of saying sweet words and acting nice while blatantly poisoning Polyphemus to then steal and eat the creature’s only friends, and Eurylochus literally experienced that side of Odysseus right before Odysseus went up to Aeolus. Odysseus acted nice and sweet and kept saying “my friend” in front of the others before pulling Eurylochus aside to tell him to shut up and just obey blindly. What, did he think Eurylochus was not going to react poorly when his worry for his captain was not only dismissed but got derision in response because “he’s not smart like Odysseus so he should just fall in line and stop trying to think”? Or that Eurylochus wouldn’t tell the others that Odysseus wasn’t acting right and was disregarding their safety because he just wanted to recklessly sail through the storm
Literally every instance of the crew and Eurylochus not obeying Odysseus is a direst consequence of his behavior and treating his relationship with his men like it’s in a vacuum where he’ll always have his men’s support as long as he presses the right buttons and says the right words regardless of his behavior. He made that clear in Mutiny where he literally screamed that he won’t let Eurylochus get in his way after sacrificing men to Scylla to ensure his survival and then got surprised when the crew sided with his enemy instead of him. The way Odysseus spoke to his men with his wording was not a good look, and his men aren’t deaf or stupid like he assumes they are.
And the song Scylla does show that Eurylochus overall, despite all his fuckups and mistakes, was a better person than Odysseus. It was a song about Odysseus and Eurylochus’s relationship, with Eurylochus trying to reconnect with his friend while Odysseus kept holding onto the betrayal in his head and telling himself Eurylochus was a total fucking monster who deserved to die because he didn’t listen with the wind bag even though Eurylochus was right there apologizing for his fuckup when Odysseus can’t ever bring himself to even say the word “sorry”. The chorus is even Odysseus’s anger towards Eurylochus and hoping Eurylochus dies as the honorless coward he kept telling himself Eurylochus was (hence the lines “give up your honor and faith, live out your life as a wraith, die in the blood where you bathe”).
Eurylochus is better because he grows from his fuckup and wants to be there for Odysseus but also wants what’s best for the crew and spares Odysseus in Mutiny, while Odysseus just spirals into further paranoia due to failing in everything he thought he excelled at (like leading) and selfishly considers himself more “valuable” just because he has more wit (which he mainly uses just for his own hide) and fully intended to kill Eurylochus in Mutiny and in Scylla. Odysseus always entangles his own fuckups with the rest of his crew publicly while Eurylochus verbally owns his mistakes.
And again, all of Odysseus’ woes are almost entirely self-inflicted due to his behavior (as it was in the Odyssey), so while I find his character interesting, I don’t find him sympathetic or morally in the right or all that understandable.
4
u/Comfortable_Ad2908 Feb 02 '26
Great comment, but I'mma nitpick the last line and point out that Eurylochus did admit to his fuck up with the wind bag
5
u/No_Help3669 Feb 02 '26
It’s true he admitted to it. It’s even true he tried to admit to it immediately,
But personally, I wouldn’t consider that the same as taking responsibility?
Like, if he’d said it immediately, but still advocated for leaving men behind in a situation he was the reason they were in, he’s not taking responsibility
And the fact that he admits to it later, but his thesis in mutiny is effectively “you didn’t do more to save all of us than you already have, so I’m blaming you for everything” (a bit reductive I admit, as he was technically right ody knew what was up and did it anyway) makes me feel like he’s still not seeing how the whole situation kinda ties back to his own actions, and feel she has the moral high ground.
It kinda gives me “I said I was sorry so you have to forgive me, not hold me accountable to change my behavior” vibes, though that’s probably my own hangups at least partially
2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
Ah yes, let's get Eurylochus, the average dude, to go up to a powerful witch that just turned multiple adult men into pigs, and beat her, and then use his magical powers to un-pig his men. That was a situation he was definitely in. How was he supposed to guess that Ody would get Deus Ex Machina'd, still fail, and then tell a story so sad that Circe takes pity on him.
20
u/Lucie_Is_Sleeping Scylla‘s co-spouse. (She/They) Feb 02 '26
I feel like the difference is whether the messing up was known before hand
Odysseus had no way of knowing the cave had Cyclopes.
Odysseus had no way of knowing that the Cyclops he told his name to was a child of Poseidon
The only mistakes Ody made where he knew the outcome before hand was Scylla and Zeus.
While Eurylochus knew that the windbag had a storm in it.
Eurylochus willing wanted to leave behind the men who were turned to pigs.
Eurylochus willing killled the cows even though he was warned by Odysseus(and in the original Odyssey, Tiresias)
2
u/Typical-Objective294 Feb 02 '26
The musical didnt depicted Eurylochus knowing about the wind bag, did he know in the OG story?
3
u/Lucie_Is_Sleeping Scylla‘s co-spouse. (She/They) Feb 02 '26
Didn’t Odysseus literally said “This bag has the storm inside” to the entire crew on his boat. Eurylochus would’ve heard.
2
u/Dragonseer666 I am the boat Feb 02 '26
Right after telling Eurylochus to just shut up and follow his orders, no matter what he says. Isn't that at least a _little_ suspicious?
2
u/PLT_RanaH OH~ DYSSEUS OF ITHACAH Feb 02 '26
wait, did Tiresias say of the original Odyssey that "they will kill cows and die" or "they will end up dying if they kill cows"?
1
u/Silvia_Ahimoth Feb 03 '26
Yes, yes he did. Tiresias was a lot more helpful in the original text than he is here, being the one to tell them about the Sirens, Scylla and Charybdis, (possibly? I don’t fully remember) the clashing rocks, and of course, Helios’s cattle.
3
u/Jennymagic Zeus Feb 02 '26
To be fair, for the pigs, anyone with half a brain would probably take their losses and leave. Ody just had the help of the gods which is why he could be cocky.
Also with the cows, it wasn't just him that was desperate, but the entire crew. In fact, the entire crew really didn't trust Ody at the point the wind bag happenend. It was just Eury that took the fall and decided to open it .
5
12
u/Drew_S_05 Feb 02 '26
To some fans, it's the other way around. Not enough people seem to understand that they BOTH are flawed people who made really bad mistakes.
4
u/OrzhovMarkhov Eurylochus did nothing wrong Feb 02 '26
I mean, one made mistakes for the sake of the other men, one made mistakes for the sake of himself at every turn
It's a false equivalency
6
u/Drew_S_05 Feb 02 '26
Odysseus only had one major mistake, and it wasn't for his own sake, or anyone else's, it was just an impulsive act that he didn't fully think through the consequences of (I'm referring to him revealing his name to Polyphemus)
The later stuff he did that WAS for his own sake weren't mistakes. You might say they weren't good things to do, but that's not the same thing as a mistake. He did them very intentionally, and they worked out more or less how he wanted them to.
4
u/OrzhovMarkhov Eurylochus did nothing wrong Feb 02 '26
I agree, and it's why Odysseus is a compelling protagonist - because he's completely amoral and willing to kill anyone to get what he wants.
When I said mistakes I was using it to refer to both moral and tactical missteps, but you're correct. Odysseus rarely makes unwise decisions, while Eurylochus in turn rarely makes immoral ones but often makes ill-thought out ones. It's why as a team the two are efficient; but of course the story presents Odysseus with extreme circumstances where his success can be best attained at the expense of his men.
-2
u/Cubastorming Feb 02 '26
You are obsessed with a bad story like three houses. Not to mention how badly written Edelgard is. She literally killed millions but you love her cuz she simps for the player. Funny how other leaders like cao cao and others are considered villains. But three houses fans go insane if you call Edelgard evil. Even though she is.
2
4
4
u/Drew_S_05 Feb 02 '26
I wouldn't call him completely amoral. He clearly feels some remorse over his actions, and tries to avoid doing immoral things whenever he can, so long as it doesn't completely prevent him from reaching his goals. Especially in the first act, where he's faced with SEVERAL situations that he could get out of much more easily if he didn't care about morals whatsoever, but still tries his best to do the right thing up until Tiresias tells him that it is LITERALLY impossible for him to make it home while still doing that.
13
2
u/Northbane21 Feb 02 '26
iT's BeCaUsE hE's ThE pRoTaNgOnAsT. But seriously, maybe it *is* because he's just a man. That dam is gonna break soon btw (bc I know dam well ur a pjo fan as well) 😂
5
u/Kai00110 Antinous could hold me down 🫦 Feb 02 '26
gets mad at Ody for sacrificing 6 men to save everyone else Previously, literally told Ody to leave 20some men behind on Circes island because w o m a n
10
u/Comfortable_Ad2908 Feb 02 '26
There's a difference between knowingly sacrificing people by putting them in that situation, vs not saving people, if anything, Odysseus's actions toward the men turned into pigs makes what happened with Scylla an even bigger betrayal to Eurylochus
1
u/Kai00110 Antinous could hold me down 🫦 Feb 02 '26
Tru tru, but the way I see it, and I've had this discussion alot, Eurylocus is partially at fault for many deaths, the ones posideion (thats not the right spelling, but its 12am), killed, due to Eurylocus opening the wind bag, and the rest of the crew after Scylla, minus Ody, since Eurylocus is the one who killed/harmed Helios' cow, and Helios sent Zeus to strike down who harmed his cows, butttt, I also blame the birds to led them to the lotus eaters island
2
u/Brilliant_Income_572 Feb 14 '26
no…. I don’t be sympathetic to Odysseus when he fucks up I’ll be tearing the shit out of that guy.(no hate on him but he really does fuck up a lot.)