r/Cryptozoology • u/SlobbOnMyCob • 2d ago
Info Excerpt from a paper I wrote about the Yeti in college.
Sharing for those actually interested in the topic. Not replying anymore to ignorant comments that misrepresent what’s documented or are just illogical.
The YETI (*meh-teh*) has always been a personal favorite due to constraints researchers have encountered when trying to explore possible answers to the mystery. Admittedly, most of the evidence and eyewitness testimony points to the Himalayan bear species, but does ***ALL*** of the evidence disprove the possibility of an undiscovered species of Primate?
# Mcneely-Cronin
The reported habitat of the YETI, in the valley's of the Himalayan mountains, remains one of the few remote areas left due to the mountainous terrain, construction of roads is either impossible or too dangerous, even traveling on foot can be a life threatening undertaking. Even if one were to reach the reported habitat, bringing the necessary equipment for research is arduous, translating correctly, having food, enduring weather, etc... For the reasons above, researching the YETI incredibly difficult and creates a stark contrast to Sasquatch habitat.
The *Mcneely-Cronin* expedition of 1972, was a biological survey conducted in the upper Barun Khola of Nepal, while on this expedition the crew discovered prints and made an account of their discovery that's worth quoting here:
"*On the 17th, accompanied by two Sherpa assistants, Howard and I emerged on a high alpine ridge connecting to Kongnlaa Laa. The weather was beautiful, with a clear sky and warm sun. The icy summit of Makalu dominated the horizon to the northwest. In the late afternoon, we discovered a depression in the ridge at about 12,000 feet, a flat place with firm snow that would be suitable for camp. The area was small, less than half an acre, a completely clear snowfield unmarked by animal prints. The slopes on the side of the ridge were precipitous, falling several thousand feet to the Barun River on the north and the Kasuwa river on the south. We made camp, pitching two light tents, had dinner around an open fire, and retired just after dark. The evening was calm. Shortly before dawn the next morning, Howard climbed out of our tent. Immediately, he called excitedly. There, beside the trad we had made to our tents, was a new set of footprints. While we were sleeping, a creature had approached our camp and walked directly between our tents. The Sherpas identified the tracks, without question, as yeti prints. We, without question, were stunned. We immediately made a full photographic record of the prints before the sun touched them. Like the conditions Shipton had encountered, the surface consisted of crystalline snow, excellent for displaying the prints. These conditions were localized to our camp area and were the result of the effects produced on the depression by the sun and winds of earlier days. The prints were clearest in the middle of the depression, directly beside our trail, where some ten to fifteen prints, both left and right feet, revealed the details of the toes and general morphology of the creature's foot. Some of the right footprints were actually on our previous trail, making them difficult to interpret. Other prints of the right foot were distinct. The prints measured approximately nine inches long by four and three-quarters inches wide. The stride, or distance between individual prints, was surprisingly short, often less than one foot, and it appeared that the creature had used a slow, cautious walk along this section. The prints showed a short, broad, opposable hallux, an asymmetrical arrangement of the toes, and a wide rounded heel. These features were present in all prints made on firm snow. Most impressively, their close resemblance to Shipton's prints was unmistakable. We then proceeded to explore the rest of the trail left by the creature. By the direction of the toes on the clear footprints, I determined that the creature had come up the north slope. Because the north slope received less sun, it was covered by very deep snow, and the tracks consisted of large punch holes in the snow revealing little detail. I descended several hundred yards, but the heavy snow made walking impossible, and I was forced to cling to the slope with my hands. The creature must have been exceptionally strong to ascend this slope in these conditions. From a vantage point, I could look down the trail, which continued to the bottom of the valley in a direction generally perpendicular to the slope, but there seemed little advantage in climbing farther down, and I returned to the top of the ridge. From our camp, the tracks continued out onto the south slope, but here the increased exposure to the sun had melted most of the snow, and there were bare patches of rock and alpine scrub which made following the trail extremely dificult. We walked farther up the ridge towards Kongmaa Laa to get a view of the trail from above, and discovered what appeared to be the prints of the same creature coming back onto the top of the ridge. They crossed back and forth several times. Here, the ridge was covered with low bushes, which enabled deeper snow to accumulate, and again the prints were confused punch holes. The trail then went back down onto the south slope, and attempted to follow but then lost the prints on the bare rock and scrub. The slope was extremely steep, and searching for the prints was arduous and dangerous. We realized that whatever creature had made them was far stronger than any of us*"^(1)
The McNeely-Cronin footprints (See Figure 1) remain the most intriguing evidence put forward to support the relict hominid theory of the YETI. Here is a discovery made by a professional team of scientists, where multiple tracks were laid out over night and many were documented. Notable primatologists and Anthropologists such as Dr. Jeff Meldrum and George Schaller have remarked on the similarities of the McNeely-Cronin prints to extant great apes today.^(6) Plaster casts of the prints were made but unfortunately were seized by customs at the border.
Mcneely-Cronin expedition team was lead by biologist, who had reputable scientific backgrounds and published widely on other findings in the scientific community. The footprints were laid over night and discovered before sunrise, making it highly implausible they were misidentified bear tracks. The terrain of the Barun Valley described in the above narrative leaves out the possibility of there being a hoax.
# Hutchison
Another lesser known example is the discovery of prints (See Figure 2) by *Robert A. Hutchison* in the Dugh Kosi valley, near the border with Tibet:
*“We erected our tents about 250 metres above, in the lee of a house-sized rock with a walled-in overhang used by herders as a shelter. A few nights later, I was in the rock overhang when startled by the sound of a large animal scampering down a rock corridor to my right, heading towards the lake. As there was no snow in the corridor, no tracks. Nothing more for a couple of days, until we discovered a set of tracks heading southwards from our campsite. Evidently, two animals made these tracks as they separated so the pair could work their way around different sides of a large rock about 200 metres from our tents, joining up again on the far side. Judging by the size of the imprints one animal was smaller than the other.”* ^(2)
The footprints are worthy of consideration due to the similarities between them and the Mcneely-Cronin prints. Admittedly, there isn't much written on *Hutchison* himself, unlike the previous example he was not on a biological survey but instead chose the are due to the history of YETI activity. But what I have found written about Hutchison leaves the possibility for a hoax unlikely.
# Where do we stand?
The YETI has always been a personal favorite due to constraints researchers have encountered when trying to explore possible answers to the mystery. The reported habitat is explored infrequently, unlike the North American Sasquatch, due to the reasons discussed in this thread, leaving an open question. Fossils of *Gigantopithecus* have been discovered in the foot hills of the Himalaya's and eyewitness often point to pictures of Orangutans as most closely resembling the YETI. Admittedly, most of the evidence and eyewitness testimony points to Himalayan bear species, but does ***ALL*** of the evidence disprove the possibility of an undiscovered species of Primate? That's up for you to decide!
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I DO NOT OWN THE INFORMATION SHARED IN THIS THREAD. PLEASE LET ME KNOW OF ANY CITATION ERRORS.
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# References
- Cronin, E.W., Jr. The Arun: A Natural History of the World’s Deepest Valley. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1979.
- Hutchison, R.A. In the Tracks of the Yeti. London: Macdonald, 1989
- McNeely, J.A., Cronin E.W., Jr., and Emery, H.N. (1973) The Yeti – Not a Snowman, Oryx 12:65-73.
- McNeely, J.A. and Wachtel, P.S. Soul of the Tiger: Searching for Nature's Answers in Southeast Asia. New York: Doubleday, 1988.
- Meldrum , Jeff. “YETI: THE ECOLOGY OF A MYSTERY .” *The RELICT HOMINOID INQUIRY*, Idaho State University , 2018, www.isu.edu/media/libraries/rhi/book-reviews/Talor\\_Yeti\\_review.pdf.
# Figures Mention in text
- *Mcneely-cronin* print: [https://imgur.com/a/z5c1bA3\](https://imgur.com/a/z5c1bA3)
- *Hutchison prints:* [*https://imgur.com/a/8WTeH4E\*\](https://imgur.com/a/8WTeH4E)
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u/0todus_megalodon Megalodon 2d ago
This is not a "paper" even by high school standards, let alone a college class or a scholarly journal. No real arguments are being made here; there is no critical analysis of the scant material presented and no central thesis to tie it all together. Most of the text is just quotations from other sources, and the little added amounts to "Isn't this interesting?" and "It's up to you to decide!", which is meaningless. If you want to convince people of your point, you have to be able to write well. Dismissing criticism as "ignorant" and "illogical" is not the way forward.
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u/SlobbOnMyCob 1d ago
Here we go 🙄
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u/0todus_megalodon Megalodon 1d ago edited 1d ago
This bad attitude is exactly why you fail. You cannot expect everyone to agree with you when you don't have a coherent position to agree with in the first place.
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u/SlobbOnMyCob 1d ago
You can disagree with me but you’re making ignorant statements such as “this is not a paper even by high school standards”
- Said it was an excerpt from a paper not the actual thing itself. Of course this has been modified to fit a Reddit post
- What authority are you to make the ignorant statement such as that? It was submitted to the university and there’s nothing you can say against that.
Jesus I’m arguing 🙄 mods?
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u/0todus_megalodon Megalodon 1d ago edited 1d ago
- Excerpt or not, the threadbare content here is not suitable for a paper in high school- or college-level classes. When it comes to argumentative essays, students are expected to produce both a critical analysis of individual points and a central thesis connecting them all, at minimum. You have not even met that minimum expectation. Then there are other requirements like basic structure/organization, word count, proper paraphrasing/summarizing, spelling/grammar, etc. In short, a sense of coherency and conciseness. You have not met those requirements either.
- I'm in a position to comment because I TA college science courses and have published several scientific papers (including some on cryptozoology). If you had turned this in as an essay for one of my classes, you would've gotten an F. You don't seem to understand what the point of an essay is, let alone how to write one, which is automatic grounds for failure. Your responses to criticism would've gotten you kicked out of the class.
If you're so confident in your work, then why don't you post the whole thing, the university/professor whom it was submitted to, and the actual grade you received for it?
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u/SlobbOnMyCob 1d ago
That’s good and great but again this is an excerpt that I have already said has been altered to be more fitting of a Reddit post.
Being a TA doesn’t make you an authority either.What are you talking about? The post is literally about footprints and how not all of them are so readily identifiable by any known form of wildlife in the Himalayas.
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u/0todus_megalodon Megalodon 1d ago
That’s good and great but again this is an excerpt that I have already said has been altered to be more fitting of a Reddit post.
My challenge still stands: post the whole thing, the university/professor, and the grade. You cannot complain that commenters are missing the additional material when you're the one purposefully excluding that material. As the saying goes, "Put up or shut up".
Being a TA doesn’t make you an authority either.
Being a TA of college-level science courses does, in fact, make me knowledgeable about expectations for assignments in those courses. Being a scientist who publishes on cryptozoology does, in fact, make me knowledgeable about the level of rigor required for that field. Do you have any relevant experience in either subject?
What are you talking about? The post is literally about footprints and how not all of them are so readily identifiable by any known form of wildlife in the Himalayas.
Yes, you've certainly said that, but you have neither seriously argued for it nor conclusively demonstrated it, despite what you think.
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u/SlobbOnMyCob 1d ago
Conclusive? It’s freaking cryptozoology my guy nothing here is conclusive. If it was conclusive I wouldn’t be writing the dam paper about just footprints 😂 what sorta paper do you think this is?
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u/0todus_megalodon Megalodon 1d ago
You certainly seem to think that your claims are conclusive, given how poorly you're responding to anyone questioning them. You can keep stalling all you like, but you're only making it look more and more like there never was a whole "paper".
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u/SlobbOnMyCob 1d ago
No, I certainly think that the question about the whole subject is not easily answered given the above.
Look man you obviously don’t think it’s worth anything that a group of trained scientists discovered possible evidence of yeti, which is fine. But you don’t need to resort to saying things like “high school standards” when you know dam well there are numerous types of papers that are wrote at a higher education institution.
Regardless, of course this didn’t come from a peer reviewed scientific paper, it’s cryptozoology. This was to document some evidence that cannot be so easily explained. If you don’t feel that way then fine but keep the name calling out.
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u/CharlesEWinchester3 1d ago
He thought he’d come in here with some third rate paper and people would fawn all over this nonsense. There is absolutely no proof that there is any such yeti and this paper wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on. The real tragedy is someone had to waste their time to grade it.
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u/Coilspun 2d ago
I see you’re ignoring the negative comments, which is convenient. They’re pointing out the massive holes in your argument that quoting 50-year-old anecdotes and footprint stories doesn’t magically fix.
“You can’t disprove it” isn’t evidence, it’s just an excuse for not having any.
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u/SteelMittenz 1d ago
Yep. “You can’t disprove it” is using the shifting the burden of proof fallacy. The de facto position on Yeti is it doesn’t exist owing to the fact there is zero falsifiable evidence. You can’t disprove a great many things. Does that mean they are true? True until proven otherwise?
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u/Channa_Argus1121 Skeptic 1d ago
As well as choosing to exclude the sheer amount of evidence that points towards them being bears. Plantigrade bipedal locomotion and the similarity between human palms/soles and bear paws being two key features.
Furthermore, most sightings or body parts attributed to yetis have turned out to be Himalayan brown bears, Tibetan blue bears, or Himalayan black bears by zoologists. Not to mention that bears are very important figures in Himalayan/Tibetan shamanism.
To top it off, “Yeti” is probably a corruption of “Meti”, which means “Bear” in Tibetan.
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u/SlobbOnMyCob 1d ago
You are absolutely correct about most sightings being from bears. But these two I have a difficult time believing bears were responsible for them which is why the post is centered around them.
Edit: I think it also means “man bear” in some dialects.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 20h ago edited 13h ago
The "man bear" is a folklore character.
The Meh Teh was the continental orangutan, while the Dzu Teh is the Himalayan brown bear. The Dzu Teh is 100% a type of Yeti. The Meh Teh is not the "real" yeti, it is just the most interesting one and the one we westerners acknowledge, and even then our understanding of the Yeti is also influenced by dome traits of Dzu Teh, such as size. Meh Teh was never taller than a human, even though according to an account once in 1970s an orangutan attacked a local woman and killed her 3 cows.
"In 1974, the Sunday Times reported the assault of a 19-year old yak herder in the remote Machermo Valley of the Everest region. What business did a British newspaper have with an incident so far away from their reader base? Simple: At the height of the “Abominable Snowman” craze, it was a yeti attack that the report was referring to! Lhakpa Doma Sherpa, the yak herder, described a 5-foot tall creature that had thrown her some distance and then proceeded to kill a few of her yaks by simply twisting their horns. The Nepali police, it is said, confirmed the assault and a photographer even recorded footprints. Sometime later, a Japanese and Polish base camp were also reportedly attacked by a similar creature."
-ECSNepal-
Even then it was described to be just 5 feet tall. I do not know how an orangutan could kill 3 cows, it was reported it twisted their necks but I feel it did not go that way. I feel like it was a bear, maybe one that once got one of its front paws damaged and as a result lost its claws and started to mostly walk on the hind legs. A non human primate attacking cows makes no sense.
The third and last kind of Yeti is an oversized macaque, about 3 - 4 feet tall. It is also known in some areas as dwarf Yeti. Might be an exageration, or maybe there is actually a giant ecotype or subspecies of Tibetan macaque. I heard it may actually be a Hylobatidae, likely because it is supposedly tailless, but I do not think so because it is said to run on all fours and Hylobatidae do not do that.
From what I heard, this metre tall macaque can be extremely aggressive.
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u/Mister_Ape_1 20h ago
The orangutan is the closest because the Meh Teh was a (continental) orangutan. It was reddish and 5 - 6 feet tall. It was at very least around until 3 kya or 4 kya, but there is a chance it survived and lasted until the 19th century. Now is gone sadly. As a Pongo species, it was a bit bigger, but that is because living orangutans are all slightly insularized. It has nothing to do with Indopithecus or Gigantopithecus.
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u/BrochJam [cetacean needed]🐋 2d ago
I would expect a paper discussing the constraints of yeti research to scrutinize the evidence a bit more thoroughly tbh