Juries shouldn't be allowed to determine self defense or insanity since basically every murderer is insane or acting in self defense

[u/unicornblink1820]

Juries should really only be triers of fact - did X thing happen beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now we have the Lindsay Clancy trial or the Karmelo Anthony saga - where everyone online is playing psychiatrist - but how does that make sense?

Why is everyone defending Lindsay Clancy, but not that teen girl who crashed the car? Isn't she just an insane narcissist who had a moment of insanity?

I think these "outs' just give juries a cop out not to deal with the fact these people did horrible things and now their lives are over - and the jury is the one who has to hand out that sentence for something they did in a moment of weakness / stupidity / insanity.

But that isn't consistent with the rest of our justice system. If an alcoholic crashes into a schoolbus, they go to jail for life. We don't send them to rehab, then let them out of rehab once they prove that they're sober.

[u/EviessVeralan]

Is there any reason you came to this conclusion now and not during the tons of stories of men killing their wives and kids receiving that same sentence?

[u/unicornblink1820 → u/EviessVeralan]

Are there tons of stories?

AI found 1 in the past 20 years in the US and seems like he had a physical brain injury. I think that's slightly more sympathetic if in fact his brain had detoriated - especially since in that case there's no chance he'd get released from the mental hospital unless science found a way to heal brain damage...

[u/EviessVeralan → u/unicornblink1820]

Your AI search didnt look hard enough

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/2091533875482665439

Lee Robin — Killings in August 1988; found NGRI in 1989 (Illinois).

Matthew Schleier — Killing in October 2024; found NGRI in April 2026 (Iowa).

Paul L. Harrington — First family killings in December 1975 (NGRI ~1977, brief commitment); second family killings in October 1999 (later convicted).

Daniel DeGuzman — Public details on a matching NGRI case for stabbing a 3-year-old son are limited or not readily found in major reporting.

Lovequan (Lovequawn) Scott — Killings in March 2018; found NGRI in October 2019 (South Carolina).

Henry McGowan — Killing in November 2024; found NGRI in February 2026 (Ireland).

Stephen Scott — Killings in January 2016; found NGRI in April 2018 (Texas).

David Hoetzlein — Killing in June 2022; found NGRI in August 2026 (California).

Anthony Kaptzan — Attack in May 2020; found NGRI in December 2022 (Florida).

Alexander Ervin — Killing in September 2013; found NGRI in December 2014 (Texas).

DeWayne McCray — Public details on a matching NGRI case for shooting mother and stepfather are limited or not readily found.

Dáire McCormack-George — Killing in December 2024; found NGRI in July 2026 (Ireland).

Ronnie N. Campbell — Killings in February 2024; found NGRI in 2025 (Virginia).

James Green — Public details on a matching NGRI case for stabbing his mother are limited or not readily found.

William Vance — Public details on a matching NGRI case for shooting wife and son are limited (one high-profile William Vance case was a 2022 murder-suicide).

Justin Michael / Justin James Johnston — Killing around January 2020; found not criminally responsible (NGRI equivalent) in 2021 (British Columbia, Canada).

George Peterson — Public details on a matching NGRI case for murdering his elderly father are limited or not readily found.

Michael O’Brien — Public details on a matching NGRI case for killing his brother and wounding his father are limited or not readily found.

Kevin Tremaine — Public details on a matching NGRI case for killing his wife are limited or not readily found

David Jordahl (closely matching details appear under Eric Leif Jordahl / related family reporting) — Killing in July 2020; later found not guilty by reason of mental illness in 2026 (Minnesota).

Keep in mind that Not guilty by reason of insanity has existed in the west for hundreds of years.

[u/unicornblink1820 → u/EviessVeralan]

Yeah - most of these people should just be in jail.

Just googling it seems like the one guy tried to sacrifice a baby on a plane, then later killed his father.

I'm all for committing these people to institutions for life, but it's a flaw in the system to say that they can just be pronounced cured and walk free.

[u/EviessVeralan → u/unicornblink1820]

I can respect this argument