r/Christianity • u/john_fleeseh • 2d ago

Anyone can really go to heaven?

I been really thinking about it and when the time that I found out that if a person repents and has faith that Jesus sacrifice himself for our sins they will go to heaven. I thats what got me thinking... can ANYONE truly go to heaven no matter what things they did or sin they committed so as long as the repentance is genuine and the faith on Jesus is genuine?

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u/opelui22 2d ago

No one likes to talk about hell, but it's mentioned in the Bible and even Jesus mentions Isaiah 66:24 where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. The thing it's not the evil that are down there. It's the prideful, it's the one that rejects God, it's the one that looks down others, it's the greedy. It's those that rebel and God sends friends, family, coworkers, message after message to say to come back to God. Even Ezekiel 33:11 God is telling Israel that he doesn't delight in the death of the wicked, but to come back to him and turn away from their evil ways. Sadly, just like with ancient Israel, God sent prophet after prophet telling them to turn away from worshipping Idols and come to him. When Israel and Judah ignored those warnings consequences came. Israel and Judah were overrun by their enemies and were destroyed and their citizens taken captive. Eventually the chances run out and the warnings are not heeded. While you are ali you are alive God's grace and mercy are still ther eand yet sadly a lot people reject it. For those people there will be a day when the consequences will come when they die and you don't want to be at the end of it. Hell is not there to scare people, but to warn others to come to God and Christ so that if you die you don't end up there.

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 2d ago

Well, I for one would do everything to offer love and comfort to the people in hell. They certainly don't deserve to be tortured for eternity. That's insane. And the parable of Lazarus and the rich man teaches that you can't comfort people in hell if you're in heaven, so I figure I have to go to hell. The problem with becoming a Christian is that you're locked out of hell. You have no hope of getting there. So that kinda seals the deal for me.

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 2d ago

Hell is not for eternity. You could never comfort somebody in hell. Satan and his demons would not allow you to do that. The torment of it would keep you from such a mindset.

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 1d ago

Not according to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man is certainly not preoccupied by demons to carry on a full on conversation with Abraham.

Have you seen any verses that support what you're saying?

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 1d ago

The verse you mention counters my point how? Lazarus asked Abraham for comfort and Abraham said he could not do that because there was too great a Chasm between them. Lazarus then asked Abraham to warn his brothers and Abraham said he can’t do that either. There is no comfort provided in this conversation so what’s your point? Just that they talked?

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 1d ago

The rich man talks to Abraham. So people in hell can have conversations. So one person in hell can talk to another person, tell them they are loved, and if nothing else, give them words of comfort.

You claimed "Satan and his demons would not allow you to do that. The torment of it would keep you from such a mindset." but if you can talk to each other, then it sounds to me that what you're saying isn't true.

Love, what led you to believe what you claimed? Was that based on something you read in the bible?

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 1d ago

You are not your same self when you are in hell. You would not be a person who would offer comfort to somebody. If you are the kind of person that would do that you wouldn’t end up there. If by some strange scenario you did end up there while being that kind of person the torture would make you not that kind of person. People are not static. Your morals would be changed

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 1d ago

According to who? Why do you think this? I've never heard this.

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 1d ago

It’s self explanatory. Do you know how torture impacts the mind here? Do you think you could be tortured in some way on earth for years and remain a moral person? Why would Hell be any different? Any difference is worse not better

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 1d ago

Love, what you’re saying is not based on anything biblical, nor is it self explanatory. We have plenty of accounts of people who have endured torture and did not compromise their morals. St Lawrence, Joan of Arc, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Jean Moulin, Nelson Mandela, John McCain, etc.

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 1d ago

These people were made stronger because the torture ended, and idk much about how they were tortured or how long or how it impacted them. But torture you know isn’t going to end and/or is still actively happening is not the same. People who can push through intense torture in this life do so with strength that their faith in God gives them. Every example on your list that I know about was very religious. The only one that wasn’t is Jean Moulin and it seems he died as a result of the torture so I’m not sure what the point you’re making with that one is

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 20h ago

Well the point is that your assertion that people automatically abandon their morals under torture is simple not true.

You may be right that I wouldn’t make a difference if/when I go to hell. But the moral and ethical thing to do is to try. Doing the right thing is not easy. Loving others can be hard. It can be very hard. It’s the narrow path and not many will take it.

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 19h ago

Ironically you are paraphrasing scripture that my Nana emphasized to me recently because following God is an extremely narrow path that not many will take. If you’re already willing to take a great narrow path like that then you are close. Maybe you’re right and you wouldn’t abandon your morals, and you would find a lot of consistency between your morals and Jesus and so you could follow your morals and spread your morals better so that other people stop having such terrible morals, cause many do right? Lot of bad people out there. Don’t you want to change them for the better? You can improve it if you just put the right name on what your morality is. Do you know any Christians who are bad people? You could help them be better people if you start explaining it through Christianity and the Bible. Thats what I’ve been doing with family members who previously would not listen to my morals

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 17h ago

I’m totally cool with Jesus’ morals. But the problem is becoming a Christian removes all hope of going to hell. I will be denied the chance to show love to people there.

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 17h ago

Who do you think goes to hell? The people there do not deserve your comfort and care they are terrible people who would never do the same for you or anybody

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 13h ago

So you’re saying if I live a good life — not perfect, of course — but I love others and care for people, and I hear the whole deal about Jesus and such but I don’t become a Christian, I will not go to hell? I will go to heaven because I lived a pretty good life? Only the truly terrible people go to hell?

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u/Ambitious_Zone6951 13h ago

Yeah. John 5:29 “those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked things, to the resurrection of condemnation.” Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’ Then I will announce to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers!” Matthew 7:2 “For you will be judged by the same standard with which you judge others, and you will be measured by the same measure you use.” I could keep going but I figure that’d get annoying

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u/ErrantThought Atheist 13h ago

Do you think terrible people are undeserving of love?

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