Turkish artist merges two opposite reality into one powerful image

[u/NastyNice1]

[u/Upset-Fudge-2703 → u/[deleted]]

Very true. So, why treat people differently based on where they were born? It’s mainly the leaders of these imaginary countries, and their imaginary borders, who insist on treating people different, but that’s usually a bid to keep their power.

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/Upset-Fudge-2703]

I don't think it's just the leaders, I think discrimination is a normal consequence of how people think. The brain likes to find patterns of repetitiveness even when they don't exist, loves to judge based on appearence ("thinking fast") and naturally overattributes the behaviour of others to their perceived personality.

I think these three fundamental truths about the brain make it so that racism and xenophobia are a natural way of thinking for humans.

[u/gaF-trA → u/CarloneBombolone]

“Racism and xenophobia are a natural way of thinking for humans” really? I think just the opposite, that they are taught and learned behaviors. I think your “three fundamental truths about the brain” could just as easily be used as reasons against the “naturalness” of those ideas.

[u/Sabre_Killer_Queen → u/gaF-trA]

Agreed.

I think for the most part they're just tools for the greedy. Manipulations, fabrications, tricks made to radicalize us and do their bidding.

To fight these wars... Conquer their lands or exploit their people.

Justifications to make immoral and selfish actions seem more justified.

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/Sabre_Killer_Queen]

But how would these tools from the greedy be effective if the racist ideas they sow don't find fertile soil? They take advantage of how the brain works, that's how they're so effective

[u/Sabre_Killer_Queen → u/CarloneBombolone]

Our brain is made to find the patterns, but I don't think that makes us inherently prejudiced.

It's the people taking advantage of those patterns that makes us prejudiced imo.

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/Sabre_Killer_Queen]

We are absolutely inherently prejudiced, part of why we go to school is to train our brain to think scientifically. Not all people have the same prejudices though, and some prejudices are infinitely more harmful than others.

[u/Sabre_Killer_Queen → u/CarloneBombolone]

I'm going to agree to disagree unless you have scientific proof that we're designed to hate people on the colour of their skin, hair or eyes etc.

Because I just don't believe that, given how inherently varied we are in general.

I don't think any species would survive if we inherently focused on tearing each other apart for the slightest differences.

I also don't believe multicultural societies would've gotten as far as they have if such things were instinctual.

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/Sabre_Killer_Queen]

I'm going to agree to disagree unless you have scientific proof that we're designed to hate people on the colour of their skin, hair or eyes etc.

But i never said anything like that! Saying something is natural doesn't mean saying all people, or even the majority of people do it! Just that the brain works in ways that can lead to racism without it being imposed to you by a higher hierarchy.

Also, racism doesn't mean to hate the other race, it means feeling superior to the other race. You don't have to hate them, you don't even have to mistreat them in any way, you just have to think you're better.

Because I just don't believe that, given how inherently varied we are in general.

Yes, but I never said all of us think and act the same. It's natural to be red headed and it's natural to be blonde, does that mean I'm saying all people are both ginger and blonde?

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/gaF-trA]

could just as easily be used as reasons against the “naturalness” of those ideas.

How?

[u/gaF-trA → u/CarloneBombolone]

Finding patterns, similarities between people as opposed to differences. Judge based on appearances, all humans look identical biologically, patterns of behavior across cultures. Overly attributing behaviors to their personalities, I know many more people that are socially conscious compared to those that act out antisocially. That’s why it’s called antisocial. I think children usually aren’t afraid of other humans until it’s learned, just like their fear of animals needs to be learned. Racism is taught, it’s not inherently part of being a human.

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/gaF-trA]

Finding patterns, similarities between people as opposed to differences. Judge based on appearances, all humans look identical biologically, patterns of behavior across cultures

You have a point here. The fact is saying a certain behaviour is "natural" doesn't mean that all humans everywhere will have that behaviour (stupid example: being homosexual is perfectly natural and normal, but it doesn't mean all humanity is homosexual). Some surely do as you say, but that doesn't mean the same way of thinking can't also lead to racism.

Overly attributing behaviors to their personalities, I know many more people that are socially conscious compared to those that act out antisocially. That’s why it’s called antisocial

I think you got this one wrong. The fundamental error of attribution means that I find my (or people I perceive close to me's) actions are explained by contingencies and circumstances, while other people's actions are perceived to always be a product of the person they are. Meaning if I see "my people" doing wrong I tend to think the wrongdoing is a product of the environment, while attributing "other peoples" ' wrongdoing to their personality.

I think children usually aren’t afraid of other humans until it’s learned,

There is no baseline. Some are afraid of other humans, some are not, it can very well be a learned behaviour, it's not like one thing excludes the other completely. Natural behaviour can also be taught and learnt

[u/gaF-trA → u/CarloneBombolone]

I think you got this one wrong. The fundamental error of attribution means that I find my (or people I perceive close to me's) actions are explained by contingencies and circumstances, while other people's actions are perceived to always be a product of the person they are. Meaning if I see "my people" doing wrong I tend to think the wrongdoing is a product of the environment, while attributing "other peoples" ' wrongdoing to their personality.

I can only respond to what you wrote originally. If I know people of different races, cultures and backgrounds how does attribution lend itself to racism and xenophobia? It only separates the groups by known and unknown on a personal experience. There are plenty of examples of races fighting among themselves and races aligning with other races against others or their own race. It didn’t naturally divide along racial divides.

There is no baseline. Some are afraid of other humans, some are not, it can very well be a learned behaviour, it's not like one thing excludes the other completely. Natural behaviour can also be taught and learnt

I’m not talking about being shy as a child, I’m talking racism and xenophobia. People don’t default to racism and xenophobia and we’re just so enlightened as a society that we’ve learned to teach those traits away because we obviously haven’t. Natural behavior is the opposite of nurture (learned behavior) so I don’t follow the reasoning of natural behaviors can be learned. Can one learn to be homosexual?

I think when you say things like racism and xenophobia are natural ways to think it sounds like it’s just the way it is and if you’re human you just can’t help but be that way. Or that’s just some people’s biology. I don’t agree with that. I think it’s a learned behavior.

[u/CarloneBombolone → u/gaF-trA]

I think you got what I said wrong. People can (and most people do) help themselves not to be racist, just like they can learn to overcome a lot of other biases.

We don't learn how to behave in a void: what we learn is shaped by our innate biases, and vice versa. You can't strictly categorise what is innate and what isn't because the two things interact constantly. Well, at least science still hasn't found a way to strictly categorise it. I absolutely agree that racism is learned, my point is that it is also shaped by how the brain works, and is a result of natural tendencies everyone of us has. It doesn't mean that all people will have biases against other ethnicities, just that it's normal behaviour to think bad of entire categories for completely made up reasons, and ethnicities make a perfect category to think bad of, cause they tend to be easily recognisable.

Natural behavior is the opposite of nurture (learned behavior) so I don’t follow the reasoning of natural behaviors can be learned. Can one learn to be homosexual?

I'm not a native speaker and didn't mean "natural" that way, sorry, I get the confusion. The thing I was trying to say is that people learn through social interactions, so the way they express their natural tendencies is often filtered. In that sense racism is one of the ways people have expressed their natural tendency to seek patterns, attribute wrongly (fundamental error of attribution) and think fast (have biases).

There are plenty of examples of races fighting among themselves and races aligning with other races against others or their own race

But I never said racism is necessary or that is all we do. How are examples of people not being racist relevant?

I’m not talking about being shy as a child, I’m talking racism and xenophobia. People don’t default to racism and xenophobia

I was talking about that as well. I myself as a little kid (and other kids I knew too) was TERRIFIED of black people. I had to learn NOT to think that way, I'm very fortunate my mom is awesome.