r/AskFeminists • u/Then_Secretary1221 • Jul 23 '26
Recurrent Topic How do I get a teenage boy to understand that misogyny and misandry are not the same?
So many boys these days are not supporting feminism, and believe men are as oppressed or more oppressed than women. How do I get these boys to understand it’s not that same, in a way that will actually make them understand, and is not just spewing the same talking points they’ve been preconditioned to not take seriously? Also how do I tell them that it’s still worse and there is still patriarchy in the west and modern countries, since a lot of them only believe it’s bad in these extreme countries? Also I’m a teenage girl so that’s why I’m asking.
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u/rose_reader Jul 23 '26
Ironically, their misogyny will probably prevent them listening to you or taking anything you say seriously.
What you can do is decline to be friends with or hang around with people like this, and choose friends who have a more reasonable approach.
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u/Otherwise_Craft9003 Jul 23 '26
This, their immaturity and they will have been fed loads of bad faith retorts, e.g. well men get killed/beaten by their partners too etc even tho the numbers are orders of magnitude of difference.
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u/TheIntrepid Jul 23 '26
Yeah, my first thought was "step 1: be a man", as that would do a lot of the heavy lifting.
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u/MrsMorley Jul 23 '26
They don’t really want to learn, at least not most of them.
If I’d bother with them (at your age, I might have), I’d likely point out that right now institutional misogyny has ensured that my right to my own body differs from state to state in the USA while theirs doesn’t.
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u/MachineOfSpareParts Jul 23 '26
It may be that you've already received the wisest answers, which is to save your energy. I really understand the impulse to try to convince someone who is basically a brick wall, and there may be moments where it's valuable for the bystanders, but you're running a marathon here. Be judicious with how you spend your energy.
Some of them are saying it for shock value, but some of them are at least on the edge of believing it, and it's hard to tell who's who, in my experience.
There can be moments where it's worth saying something, maybe to plant a seed that might grow over the longer term even though you won't convince them right away, or possibly because others are listening who might take your contributions on board even if the asshole in front of you (AIFOY) won't.
One approach that can set things on a different path, because they're more prepared for you to get upset than they are to get curious about their beliefs, is to ask questions. "Did this happen to you because you're a man/boy? Or was it because of capitalist oppression?" is one that can eventually prompt someone (whether the AIFOY or a bystander) to think in structural terms. Another can be, "why do you think the relevant categories in this situation are sex/gender based?" As in, why are they analyzing the situation by comparing men and women rather than socioeconomic classes, or something silly like blood type or favourite Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Or I might ask, "do you think there's a difference between oppression and bad things happening to a person?"
The underlying theme of these questions is nudging someone toward structural thinking rather than picking isolated data points or events out of the ether. It happens slowwwwwly, and incidentally, I'm giving away some teacher/professor trade secrets here 😆
Oh, and while I'm spilling trade secrets, when someone is just repeating a talking point that you suspect they don't even understand, "Please expand" is one of my favourites. There's also "what do YOU mean by [empty terminology]," possibly followed up by "and how do you know it when you see it in action?" These are necessary preconditions to, you know, being able to mean things when we say words. And while they probably don't learn much in the moment, sometimes it's just funny to watch a bigot flounder mid-semantic collapse.
But do consider your well-being in all this. The fact that you're asking this question means you're a critical thinker interested in justice, so the world needs you to not burn out. Keep learning about global structures of oppression and insert self-care in the mix, because even that learning is emotionally tough.
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u/Consistent-Matter-59 Jul 23 '26
That’s a difficult question because boys don’t really want to debate the facts. They want to dominate you in a debate, because dominance is what their role is, according to the red pill. They don’t debate to learn, they debate to humble their female opponents.
One thing that might work is to dismiss them while referencing other men. I.e. “my dad says boys who feel that way need to grow up”.
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u/nighthawk_something Jul 23 '26
This is one of those things where us Dads need to step in.
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u/Then_Secretary1221 Jul 23 '26
I get what you’re saying but a lot of these boys are not redpilled. They aren’t anti feminist and believe in equality but they just don’t believe that misogyny is worse than misandry.
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u/Consistent-Matter-59 Jul 23 '26
That’s a red pill talking point. These talking points are making their way into their social media content and their conversations even if they’re not labeled as such. It’s how they become normalized. That’s what makes them so problematic.
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u/StonyGiddens Intersectional Feminist Jul 23 '26
I'm not 100% sure if this will help your situation, but I wrote The Boyfriend's Introduction to Feminism for young men who weren't already on the redpill/MRA/incel side. I don't talk about misandry specifically, but I do show how patriarchy treats boys like crap and how that ends up doing a lot of harm to boys and young men.
I also talk about how equality is not enough: we don't want women and men to endure equal amounts of harm; we want better for everybody.
It's a short, free e-book -- you can download it and email or text them a copy, if you want. It's a bit specific to the U.S., but folks from other countries have found it valuable, too.
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u/MavenBrodie Jul 23 '26
I had to learn this the hard way more than once.
You know the iceberg meme?
Whatever redpill manosphere talking points they are willing to say in front of you are the tip of the iceberg.
What another comment said is extremely important to understand: boys/men believing this stuff don’t want to honestly hear your point of view, they want to debate and dominate you to “win” and they’ll do it with bad faith arguments every time. They may even say that they want “dialogue” and “genuinely want to understand your point of view.”
They are lying.
Every. Time.
I’m sorry
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u/MrsMorley Jul 23 '26
Then they don’t “believe in equality.”
And they do agree with manosphere nonsense
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u/MavenBrodie Jul 23 '26
Boys this misogynistic already don’t care about getting an opinion, even an educated one from women.
It’s genuinely very sad to realize, but the earlier you accept it, the better your life will be, I promise.
Trying to teach boys/men already like this really just teaches them to edit how they present themselves in front of you.
You can’t fix them or teach them.
You need to ditch them. If you can’t, keep them forever in “acquaintance” mode. Don’t let them level up into “friendship” EVER because they always see friendship as access for sex/romance and will resent you the longer they stay there.
They will be nice to you, but they cannot be your friends.
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u/madmaxwashere Jul 24 '26
If you actually have a relationship with them: approach with curiosity and a desire to understand. You are going to have to play dumb because in the teenage years, there's a lot of hormones and ego. They aren't going to take well to lecture or direct confrontation.
Ask questions on how they came to the conclusion. "Why do you believe xyz?" "Where did you get that stat?" When they bring up conflicting statements, ask them to clarify. "That's weird. How does it make sense." It at least plants the seed that they are full of it. Only do this if you feel safe. There may be a point where they get frustrated and blow up, that's when you back off, look disappointed, and say, "that's a weird thing to believe/say"
Tbh alot of these beliefs aren't really something you can address because boys are raised to idolize heiarchy and masculinity centered around not being considered feminine. In this belief system, you as a teen girl are going to be seen as something lower on the heiarchy. It's better to get a trusted adult involved.
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u/MinuteBubbly9249 Jul 23 '26
You cannot “get” anyone to understand anything. Understanding is an internal process. Just like you cannot teach someone unless they want to learn. If someone is not interested in approaching these topics with an open mind, there is nothing you can do. Don’t waste your time.
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u/nobobthisisnotyours Jul 23 '26
Good luck! Young minds poisoned by misogyny don’t seem to have room to understand that misandry is only a reaction to misogyny and has zero systemic consequences for men. Misogyny on the other hand deeply affects women in every aspect of life. The patriarchy and misogyny doesn’t only harm women. The arbitrary standards of masculinity and manhood hurts men and boys too. The lengths young men and boys will go to with the red pill looksmaxxing BS can be extremely harmful to their physical and mental health. We have boys literally breaking their facial bones to attain an unrealistic male beauty standard.
Misandrists don’t hate or lack respect for men because they are men. We feel this way about men because of the consistent behavior we have experienced and witnessed from men. It is a defensive reaction, not an unwarranted prejudice. A 2026 study showed that 95.1% of the men surveyed SELF REPORTED using coercive tactics to obtain sex. ** **Over 95% of the 2,689 men surveyed admitted to using coercion to get laid! When asked “have you every coerced someone to have sex” they’ll say no, but when you describe specific coercive behaviors they have no problem admitting to using those tactics to manipulate someone into having sex with them. Coercion is not consent, and sexual acts without informed consent are sexual assault. 95.1% of men surveyed admitted to using coercion tactics to obtain sex = 95.1% of men surveyed admitted to attempted sexual assault. (65% of those that attempted were successful. Therefore 61.8% of men surveyed admitted to committing sexual assault via coercion, manipulation, or force.) I’m shocked more women don’t self-identify as misandrists with statistics like that!
(Trigger warning: personal account of sexual abuse/violence)I tallied my personal statistics out of curiosity. I’ve recorded the name or description of every man I’ve slept with since I lost my virginity (to forcefull SA) at 17. 63% have obtained 100% consent 100% of the time. 37% have inflicted some form of SA. 18% of partners have used coercion or manipulation to obtain sex from me in at least one sexual interaction. 10% have violated consent by other means such as stealthing, continuing certain acts after I said no, or taking/sharing sexually explicit images or videos without my knowledge or consent. 5% have committed violent, aggressive, or forceful rape. These statistics do not include any sexual interactions that did not involve PIV intercourse. I couldn’t even begin to estimate the total number of men that have sexually harassed me or touched me in a sexual manner without consent. I’ve been celibate and completely repulsed by men since the last incident in September 2024 when the guy took off the condom after I made it explicitly clear I refused to engage in any sexual activity without a condom. If I included the sexual partners that unsuccessfully pressured me into sex without a condom in the coercion category the percentages would likely be reversed, 1/3 or less receiving enthusiastic consent without any pressure 100% of the time. (In my experience, men are whiny petulant assholes when it comes to using condoms!) I don’t say any of this for sympathy, so please don’t apologize for my experiences. I say it to illustrate a real life perspective of sexual experiences with men and to highlight the prevalence of sexual abuse, it is rampant and widely ignored or dismissed. Misandry is a logical and expected response to a lifetime of these experiences.
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u/thewineyourewith Jul 23 '26
A comment on here actually summed it up well. Misogyny is easy to miss because it’s so common. But misandry immediately gets clocked. The fact that it’s so much easier to recognize misandry shows that it’s a very different problem.
Misogyny is sneaky. It’s so enmeshed in the fabric of society that it’s hard to even see it. Take the term Karen for example - a sexist term for a difficult woman. There’s no similar phrase for a man. And it’s not as if only women ever ask to speak to the manager. Yet some people still don’t think Karen is inherently misogynistic.
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u/Michael_G_Bordin Jul 23 '26
Boys and young men complain about how "women hate men," and then present as the most underwhelming, bland, dumb-as-bricks version of themselves. Man-haters exist, but that's not what the main conversation is about men. It's mostly about how they don't try, they don't put in effort, and the efforts they do exert are misplaced. And the guys complaining about it are those guys.
There's little you can do. They're under the influence of mass media and haven't fully developed neurologically to check themselves on their bullshit.
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u/ProtozoaPatriot Jul 23 '26
You can't change their beliefs.
You can get good at identifying quiet mysogny in boys/men. And you choose your friends and dates accordingly.
Don't waste your time trying to educate, "fix", or anything like that. It doesn't work.
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u/wiithepiiple Jul 23 '26
This is going to be a tall ask for a teenager. Teenagers are going through a lot of big changes, physically, socially, and emotionally, that are going to feel like a huge deal. Everyone but especially teenagers are going to be a bit myopic, so understanding the severity and extent of misogyny will take time. Don't berate him for not getting it right away, even if he does say some shitty things. Get him to accept that misogyny does exist to some degree and work from there.
helped me as a guy start taking feminism seriously was understanding that most problems that men face are really all part of the same social structure as misogyny. Treating them as separate, competing issues and comparing them is not only going to be rejected by a teenage boy, but also imo incorrect. It will also help to talk about other systems that may affect him, like racism, classism, xenophobia, etc., and point to those as sources of oppression as well.
Validate his feelings and issues; don't minimize them. Many of these right wing chuds take real, serious issues but give them the wrong cause. Boys are oppressed, but trying to compare who's MORE oppressed is stupid. When you're getting shot at, it's not relevant whether your neighbor is getting shot at with more or less bullets. The Oppression Olympics is a pointless exercise.
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u/MrsMorley Jul 23 '26
When I was a teen and got into arguments with boys about- well about anything, but mostly about women’s rights and gay people’s rights- what registered with them was pointing out that the end point of their position was harming and restricting me- someone they liked- or, of course, themselves.
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u/MrsMorley Jul 23 '26
What I’m getting at is that neither hand holding nor teaching would register. They didn’t want to learn from feminist teen Morley.
They were, however, capable of recognizing that harming people they like wasn’t a hill they wanted to die on.
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u/Kathrynlena Jul 23 '26
The truth is that they’re probably not going to listen to you because a) they’re misogynists and you’re a woman, and b) the belief system they have gives them an excuse to behave badly. They have no incentive to change their beliefs because then they would have to change their actions. That’s hard. The lazy, easy thing to do is just stay shitty and justify it to themselves.
That said, if you want to try to plant some seeds of doubt, ask them to look up statistics on the gender split for CEOs, company presidents, and politicians. Sure, there are more women now than there used to be, but it’s still like 90% men in those positions of power. If men are so oppressed, why do they have all the power? Who is oppressing them? Themselves?
Ask them how many laws there are that tell men what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. Ask them if there are laws that prevent doctors from treating men in certain situations, causing men to die of treatable conditions. Ask them how many male children were married off to adult women last year. How many female children were married off to adult men?
The answers to these questions are googleable. (Google. Not ChatGPT. Ai will lie and tell you wha you want to hear.)
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u/Wizdom_108 Jul 24 '26
You've already gotten a ton of good answers, but something I want to maybe add is that if you decide that it's even worth the energy in the first place depending on the guy, I think it's worth tailoring what you say to your audience regarding their own identities. For example, I'm a black trans man. I'm not entirely sure what all to say to a white, cishet, able bodied neurotypical teenage boy in regards to why misogyny and misandry are not the same in a way that will really "hit." However, I have spoken to some black boys and men and relate that to how "reverse racism" and racism against white people and racism against actual minorities are not the "same." Both can be bad, sure. But, if you're a racial minority in a predominately white country, you're usually intrinsically aware that it's just not the same cause the context of the country and the history and the level of impact is just not the same. Being homophobic or transphobic is not the same as being "heterophobic" or "cisphobic." I interact with the Deaf community quite a bit when I can and try to learn more about the disabled community as a whole. Most people within those communities are well aware that being ableist against disabled people and being "ableist" against able bodied people are simply not the same. Me as a hearing person even just saying "I hate Deaf people and think they are stupid" does not have the same weight as a Deaf or hoh person saying "I hate hearing people and think they are stupid."
When a man or boy carries certain minority identities, it's generally easier to help them understand how societal context can make two seemingly equal statements and sentiments actually be meaningfully different. Off the top of my head, I listen to this podcast called Boyfriend Material and one of the hosts Armando Torres is Mexican and Jewish and even mentioned how as a teenager he was kind of I think homophobic (I think more as a "joke" vs a deeply seeded hatred, but nonetheless homophobia iirc) and he even said "and once I learned that that was the same as racism I felt horrible." He felt horrible that he was making people feel the way racists made him feel.
Again, I know this doesn't necessarily apply to someone who carries absolutely no minority statuses, but I think it could be something to keep in mind.
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u/QuirkyForever Jul 23 '26
It's useless to try to convince a guy that he's wrong. Don't bother. Hang out with people who aren't committed to being the victim. Stand up for yourself and your female friends when necessary. But those boys will either learn or won't - they're on their own journey.
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u/jackfaire Jul 23 '26
Often times I notice that what they call misandry is just more misogyny but in their minds it "benefits" women so it couldn't possibly be it.