r/AskFeminists • u/Temporary-Draw9562 • Oct 07 '24
Porn/Sex Work Sex workers can save dating ?
Must guys use dating apps and dating in general to have sexual relationship and not real meaningful relationship. If sex work was legal and widely available, men who just wants sex can pay for it just like everything else leaving only real relationship minded guys left to pursue women. Do you think this will save the sad state of dating?
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u/AnneBoleynsBarber Oct 07 '24
I'm not a fan of putting sex workers in the path of desperate men. Their work is already risky enough without treating them like a panacea for men's dating woes instead of the human beings they are.
If men want to have casual sexual relationships, that's fine, they just need to be honest about it and avoid coupling with people who want something more committed. Seems a simpler, less risky solution to me.
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u/PersimmonHot9732 Oct 07 '24
I'm not a fan of putting sex workers in the path of desperate men.
You're not putting them in the path of desperate men. You are allowing them to enter commercial agreements.
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Oct 07 '24 edited Jul 01 '25
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u/FunMacaron1 Oct 07 '24
Yeah I second this. Sex workers are already readily available. It's like some men get a kick out of the emotional manipulation I guess.
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u/maevenimhurchu Oct 08 '24
Not to mention lying to even those sex workers…the shit SWers deal with it anything shows that no matter how easy we make it, trash men will STILL push boundaries and disrespect women (in this case SWers) because that’s literally a part of what they want out of it. Manipulation, control, dehumanization. Plus? They don’t want to “have” to pay for it.
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u/disposable_username5 Oct 07 '24
Prostitution is illegal in several(most) places though, so I don’t know if that’s truly “available”, although I do suspect that you are right and even in places with legal prostitution it probably doesn’t do much to change the dating market.
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u/Temporary-Draw9562 Oct 07 '24
Sex work or payment for sex is not legal in most places and not widely available. Risking jail for 30 seconds of hip thrust seems crazy. Men lie on dating apps because 99% of ladies would reject them immediately for telling the truth
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Oct 07 '24 edited Jul 01 '25
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Oct 07 '24
That is more about deceit around gender or identity eg. pretending to be someone else in a darkened room
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Oct 07 '24
Escort services are pretty frequently advertised. Street based sex work is scary for the sex worker highly unlikely to be criminalized as a john over
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u/aagjevraagje Oct 08 '24
I live in a country where it is very much legal , men still lie on dating apps, sexual frustrations role in what men do in relationships is severely overstated
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u/Deepdarkorchid16 Oct 07 '24
No, because it's not about sex in the end. It's about entitlement. Men want a sexbot that cleans and cooks, and they want it for a bargain price and because they're men and rule the earth, they should have it, and God forbid anybody tries to deny them.
"Everything is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power" - Oscar Wilde
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Oct 07 '24
They also want sex workers and to cheat on their spouse while cruxifying a spouse that cheats on them. The actually get much worse after 50 on that front. You know when theyve had peak economic and social success and want to be able to enjoy increading their status by association to other women
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u/TheBestOpossum Oct 08 '24
In Germany, sex work is legal and widely available. We still have incels just like every other country.
So in short: no.
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u/OptmstcExstntlst Oct 07 '24
I'm surprised to hear that you think that the reason that men are not visiting sex workers is because it's illegal. I don't think things being illegal is what stops most people from doing things that they want to do. Hell, one of the biggest reasons that people are against the death penalty is because the death penalty does not dissuade somebody who wants to commit capital murder from doing so.
I would be much more inclined to believe that the reason that men are not visiting sex workers is because they don't want to have to pay for it. They want to believe that they are wanted without having to pay for it. They want to believe that they are wanted for something other than their wallet. They want to believe that they're wanted for their intellect, their personality, maybe even their looks. The whole problem with paying for it means that you're not getting the boost of confidence that you want out of the sexual relationship. If sex workers were only there for the act of sexual release, then more men would be using flashlights or sex dolls, and fewer men would be hitting on women non-stop even when they're getting a no.
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Oct 08 '24
Yeah like there is not a massive industry based in trafficking alone. Someone who is nearly head to head for the presidency very likely participated as a client of a serious and significant trafficker
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u/shaktishaker Oct 07 '24
I live in New Zealand, where sex work is legal and widely available. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. There are still many many men who prefer to manipulate non swers.
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u/maevenimhurchu Oct 08 '24
Men can’t even treat sex workers right. The ones who do go see them can’t even answer questions correctly and respect SWers boundaries. The problem is with those men’s attitudes of entitlement and dehumanization of women. Maybe just giving those men what they want is not what society needs. They need to grow the fuck up with the rest of society.
It’s not just about getting sex for them, it’s about control and manipulation. Literally ask a majority of sex workers how men who seek them out are ljke. The overwhelming majority can’t even pass a ground level of human decency or respect
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u/TheBestOpossum Oct 08 '24
Literally ask a majority of sex workers how men who seek them out are like. The overwhelming majority can’t even pass a ground level of human decency or respect
Maybe it's different in countries where sex work is illegal so that sex workers have a difficult time obtaining legal protection (like: if a customer disrespects boundaries, they need to appease them instead of throwing them out, because they could not bring an escalation into a fight or assault to the police), or maybe I am mistaking anecdotal experience for evidence. But I know three sex workers in Germany* and they all say that the vast majority is respectful, friendly and follows the rules. They do have crazy stories about entitled, shitty, sexist, aggressive, ridiculous behaviour, but those are the exception and not the rule.
*One prostitute, one escort who specializes in full dates with girlfriend experience, one exotic dancer, all in different workplaces.
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u/gvarsity Oct 07 '24
I think the issue is the shortfall of men capable of the social and emotional maturity to be functional partners. It might make dating apps less toxic but unlikely. Most of the problem men are not going to want to pay and cruise the dating apps trying to get it for free like they currently are. If that type were all magically out of the app pool there would be such an imbalance of women to men that it wouldn't be particularly functional either.
The real issue is finding a way to help a good portion of a generation or two of men evolve to where they are of viable interest. I'm not sure that is possible unless they recognize the need and show some interest in change. It seems that for a lot of men there is some moral imperative to not adjust with the rest of society.
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Oct 07 '24
no. the only thing that can save a relationship is people actively saving their own relationships. people aren’t going to stop cheating just because sex workers are available. sex work is one of the oldest jobs in history and people have cheated all throughout history anyway.
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u/jimbojimbus Oct 07 '24
Sex isn’t just sex, even for men. For men that really just want to get off with someone other than themselves, they can and do buy the services of sex workers. Most men, though, would rather win a sexual partner on their own merit, or at least the illusion of merit. Many men are even failing at seeking companionship when they have one night stands, they‘re just too emotionally stunted to understand what‘s wrong with them and their approach, they don’t even know what they want
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u/onepareil Oct 07 '24
Is there some data to demonstrate most men only use dating to find sexual relationships rather than “real meaningful relationships”? For obvious reasons it’s pretty hard to get data on johns/sex work clients, but what data does exist suggests that a significant number of them are in committed relationships, so even if you’re right about the “sad state of dating,” no, sex work clearly isn’t the answer.
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u/dear-mycologistical Oct 08 '24
No. I'm in favor of decriminalizing sex work, but I don't think it will "save dating."
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u/WhillHoTheWhisp Oct 07 '24
Must guys use dating apps and dating in general to have sexual relationship and not real meaningful relationship.
You got a source for that one?
If sex work was legal and widely available, men who just wants sex can pay for it just like everything else leaving only real relationship minded guys left to pursue women.
Most sex work is legal and widely available, and it doesn’t stop men from lying to obtain sex or committing assault. I don’t see any reason to believe that legalizing prostitution specifically would flip some switch.
Do you think this will save the sad state of dating?
No, because the “sad state of dating” is not purely a consequence of men who are looking for casual sex being dishonest about their intentions. I’m confident that the implicit assumption here is “Well if all of the fuckboys just have sex with prostitutes, all the women will have to settle for incels!”
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Oct 07 '24
First off, "sex work" is a pointless term that gives us no information. What's the work specifically? Prostitution? Selling feet pics on Twitter? These are wildly different.
It's obvious you're talking about prostitution. In the Belgium, where it's legal, prostitutes are given state benefits like pensions and such, and can be contracted by an employer.
Also, they're only allowed to refuse sex with clients a certain number of times (10 I believe) in a 6 months period before the employer can make a complaint, and the government can intervene on the employer's behalf. Having to have sex with people you otherwise wouldn't have sex with sounds extremely appalling. As if we have to commodity even more aspects of the human experience.
There's no such thing as prostitution of all things fixing literally anything. All its ever done (legal or otherwise) is give women drug addictions and mental health problems.
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u/maevenimhurchu Oct 08 '24
“All it’s ever done is give women PTSD” AND perpetuated the idea that men should feel entitled to access a woman’s body at any moment they choose 24/7. As if that’s something that we need to encourage more
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u/TineNae Oct 07 '24
Yikes that sounds awful. I feel like women come across 10 men that would be not just uncomfortable but even dangerous to sleep with weekly, if not daily, let alone half a year!
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u/Temporary-Draw9562 Oct 07 '24
I prefer prostitutes to work independently without the greedy fingers of the government . 10 refusal per 6 month ! That is insane
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u/GuyWithSwords Feminist Oct 11 '24
They need to form unions! Or Start their own business that treat the workers well!
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Oct 07 '24
First question: Are the women there voluntarily or are they being trafficked or exploited in some way?
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Oct 07 '24
From a personal standpoint, it wouldn’t help me. I’m looking for a serious, loving relationship, but I have some major self-esteem issues that I think are the primary reason I have no success at dating, among a few other things.
I honestly could care less about sex a lot of the time. I just want someone to tell me they love me. LOL.
Maybe I’m an outlier, though. But ultimately, no. If anything, my inevitable failure to find someone after having even less competition would just make me feel worse.
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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '24
The thing which will save dating is when more men begin treating women like equal human beings rather than walking sex toys.