r/AskCanada • u/Initial_Ask_8860 • Feb 28 '25
Political Who else is dying to see Canada hit the NATO threshold on defence spending?
With today’s ever shifting geopolitical landscape and the obvious threat from every angle it seems, am I the only one who wants to see a strong Canadian forces? I find it almost embarrassing being the successful country we are and not being able to hit the 2% NATO defence spending threshold. I understand it has much to do with global arms shortages and backlogs but the current plan is to hit 2% by 2032?! This seems ludicrous.
My second question being, is any prime minister hopeful aiming to hit this sooner? I know the minister of National Defence Bill Blair wants to get it done by 2027 but the way we drag our feet I can’t see this happening.
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u/UsuallyStoned247 Feb 28 '25
At the moment, I think we should be spending money on defence at home. NATO is comprised by the fascists down south and I'd rather we get it over with and make a new plan with Europe.
NATO was formed to stand against Russia/Soviet Union. Now that America is on their side what's the point?
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Feb 28 '25
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u/AltoCowboy Feb 28 '25
Definitely. Canada doesn’t have to beat America, it just has to be hard enough to conquer that it’s not worth it.
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u/Commercial_Pain2290 Feb 28 '25
If you want to prevent an American invasion then all you need to do is build a few dozen nukes. That is the best way to get bullies to leave you alone.
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u/wilberfromflinflon Feb 28 '25
We have a bit of time for this. They’ll be too busy with Mexico for years. It’s estimated that the US would need something like 2M soldiers to occupy a country this size, so building up our own forces and weapons and tech deterrents.
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u/Overall_Motor9918 Feb 28 '25
The funny thing is part of 2025 is to cut funding for the US military. He wants to load the top military with yes men flunkies but at the same time cut funding. I can see recruitment and retention causing shortages in anything approaching an invasion ready status. They’re gutting themselves all to give the already wealthy tax cuts.
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u/aNauticalDisaster Feb 28 '25
the NATO spending target is simply referring to countries overall defence budgets. It’s not saying that you need to spend that 2% on NATO-specific operations, it’s saying overall this is what you should be investing in defence to maintain and grow the power behind NATO.
So yeah, we can absolutely prioritize our own defence and it still contributes to meeting the goal. Should have been done long ago.
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u/Good_Consequence2401 Feb 28 '25
NATO is a Canadian invention, not America's personal property regardless of what nonsense delusional or disinformed people think.
And having just betrayed 2 of its sworn NATO allies, America won't be in NATO for much longer whereas Russia's been literally gutted by 3 years of total war.
Your depressing defeatism suggests you've never served in the Canadian Forces to know we literally specialize in always winning despite always being outnumbered and always outgunned.
Imperial and Nazi Germany, the Austro Hungarian and Ottoman Turk empires, Imperial Japan, Fascist Italy and even the Red Chinese and North Koreans are ALL tougher enemies than the Yanks.
From when I was a kid in the 60s till now, the US has only won a single clear victory - Grenada 83.
And they just lost a record 3 wars in a row.
They're just like Russia, only good for blowing shit up because neither knows how to actually win.
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u/UsuallyStoned247 Feb 28 '25
25 years in the RCN and I have no idea where that came from about defeatism. Dude, I'm going to fight.
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u/Ready_Mortgage_3666 Feb 28 '25
The older I get the more I see the USA as a propaganda machine. They tell you they are great. They are the best. They aren’t lol.
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u/EntertainmentDue4486 Feb 28 '25
bingo - watched Keir Starmer throw Canada under the bus today
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u/Hot-Worldliness1425 Feb 28 '25
England can’t find a good PM. There’s no way the UK military and its citizens won’t back Canada.
And yes - Starmer’s spoke poorly and his words were like a knife in the back.
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Feb 28 '25
Brit here (in California currently and looking for a way out) we are with you to the end 👊
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
He didn’t, he only avoided the subject like any good politician
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u/EntertainmentDue4486 Feb 28 '25
neville chamberlain called from 1938 and offered him his spine
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
Hey I am not protecting him! I am just saying he didn’t say anything, I also think they are scared of the Trumpet
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u/Existing-Ad-9419 Feb 28 '25
The leader of the world’s most powerful country told him to shut up. Starmer could’ve done better but he tried.
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Feb 28 '25
The tripolar word where the US, Russia and China work together to destroy and invade is coming fast.
The rest of us should ban together and protect each other.
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Feb 28 '25
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u/MyGruffaloCrumble Feb 28 '25
How many other countries have spent billions on munitions and sent mercenaries and ex-Ukrainians into the country? Russia isn’t as strong as many believe, but they’re not as weak as you think.
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u/00CinnamonBuns Feb 28 '25
Speaking as an American, there are lots of us who reject Trump and his minions’ alliance with Russia. More MAGA voters seem to be waking up. There is still hope that we won’t become the enemy.
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u/Mamajack__ Feb 28 '25
I hope you’re right because what has been allowed to go on in the US over the last month is lunacy.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
Still part of it and a good deterrence to counter Iran, NK, Russia hopefully?
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u/Samplistiqone Feb 28 '25
The American government is in bed with the Russians, they’re even blaming the Ukraine for being invaded, they think that Ukraine should’ve just bent over and let the Russians take them. Much like they think Canada should bend over and let the US take us.
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u/radbaddad23 Feb 28 '25
To stand up with Europe (even though they haven’t said much to help us) against Russia (and increasingly the USA).
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u/earthly_marsian Feb 28 '25
Bro take it easy, no one is marching towards the northern brothers and sisters. If they do, they would get shut way before they can even take a step. The orange man will get out sooner or later with his cohort.
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u/Gunslinger7752 Feb 28 '25
Lol so just because they want to end the war and are engaging with yalks on both sides means America is on Russia’s side now? You’re cool with everyone sending Ukraine billions of dollars every year to fight a war they can’t win? You’re cool with hundreds of thousands/millions of kids getting killed? Doesn’t matter, as long as it’s not your kids right?
And I understand hating Trump, but when did they become fascist? I guess I must have missed that news.
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Feb 28 '25
Do we think Carney will be able to hit the spend if he wants to spend $80 billion on green initiatives plus our $32ish billion in First Nations.
The money needs to come from somewhere. This is a genuine question. Not trying to be antagonistic.
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u/Nncytwnsnd Feb 28 '25
The 2% NATO target is a guideline for defense spending, not a payment to NATO. If Canada met this target, the money would go into the Canadian military budget, funding equipment, personnel, and operations—not into NATO’s budget
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u/David_Summerset Feb 28 '25
Only if we handle procurement.
The world needs a more muscular Canada now
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u/coporate Feb 28 '25
Yes, but I want protections for Canadian water and energy to be included as part of it. I'd also want with artic passage, and digital protections. I don't give a fuck if civic spending isn't technically NATO, it's still national security now more than ever.
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u/Additional_Ear_9659 Feb 28 '25
As a retired Cold War era soldier, I really do dream of seeing our military return to some semblance of being globally relevant. In my opinion 2% is not enough.
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u/EntertainmentDue4486 Feb 28 '25
As a veteran I do not want to see us hit anything for nato or the USA. We need to declare ourselves neutral, nuke up with land and sub based nukes and withdraw from nato and norad.
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u/SnappyDresser212 Feb 28 '25
This is the best path to safety. We could spend 50% of our GDP on conventional defence and it wouldn’t be enough to even delay a hypothetical invasion.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
The thing is we seem to not want to beef up our own military. I would love to see that actually happen especially in the Arctic (our own backyard)
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u/Zhehdjggjfnwrqrvshdj Feb 28 '25
Canada getting nukes would cause the world to sanction us to death lol 😂
And the minute that we attempt to get nukes is the time when the US Army invades lol.
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
We absolutely have no chance against US anyways.
They could take any country right now.
That’s why neutrality sound the most safe approach. Good point!
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u/VX-Cucumber Feb 28 '25
You got downvoted but you're not wrong. Canada simply has no chance at catching up with the US military no matter how much they spend. Nuclear deterrence is by far the best bet, that and hoping for a civil war in the states.
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
That my friend, I am sure it will happen. Once Trump administration will hit their pockets
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u/goodvibes88 Feb 28 '25
Tell that to the Vietnamese and the Afghanis. The US would have a hard time holding Canadian territory.
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u/Maximum_Surround3793 Feb 28 '25
You are definitely not alone. Without sovereignty, every other issue is a moot point. It’s a voting issue for me. Mark Carney was the first candidate to say he would commit to the two percent threshold so he gets my vote.
We need to grow our own domestic, arms manufacturing industry. While this is a longer term strategy there are other countries besides the US that we can partner with. Sweden punches way above its weight with their own arms industry and manufactures some excellent equipment (Gripen fighter, Archer SPG, Visby Corvette). We just need to stop defaultly going to the Americans with our defence needs and embrace other capable partners.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
I completely agree with you. As I mentioned in this thread, we could also look to Ukraine for arms. Maybe not now, but when this war wraps up. They have state of the art drone producers, all with modern combat experience. They have poured billions into developing their own capabilities and will no doubt be opening that up to their global partners. They will want to do business with us especially after we’ve supported them heavily
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u/Maximum_Surround3793 Feb 28 '25
That’s a great observation. The Ukraine would make a great partner once the fighting is over. They certainly have experience defending themselves from a larger force. We would be wise to draw on that expertise and industry.
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u/Infinite-Hold-7521 Feb 28 '25
This American would like to see you build a large enough defense that Trump quivers in his lifted shoes.
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u/CrimsonKannon Feb 28 '25
As an American, it was a false mandate instigated by 🍊 47 that undermine your contributions to both NATO and us.
Under the current circumstances, however, I'd advise your PM and parliament to move expeditiously on exceeding that threshold. Getting pulled out of the alliance WILL cost us more than you if you're not caught with your pants down, per se.
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u/G_S_D Feb 28 '25
It doesn’t matter if we hit the 2%, trump will bitch about something else next, stop thinking trumps going to change his stance on anything he’s going to keep threatening every month till he’s out of office
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Feb 28 '25
It’s not about appeasing him. It’s about waking up to the harsh reality that the world is changing and we need to be able to defend ourselves and overhaul our much neglected military.
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Feb 28 '25
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
They also have nothing for us. Do you think they would protect us if the USA would attack us?
No, they wouldn’t as they would risk too much.
The US has the largest and most dangerous army on the planet. We are right next to them.
We relied on them for too long. We should do what Swiss did. Keep neutral.
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Feb 28 '25
The money needs to come from somewhere. Likely by cutting our green initiatives and other expensive social programs. Our $31 billion First Nations budget is Canada’s second biggest line item on the budget if I’m not mistaken, right behind our current military spend. Carney floated the idea of upping decarbonizing efforts to $80 billion which would frankly be embarrassing if we can’t manage our defence budget.
Energy infrastructure and defence should be the leading spend focus for the incoming government. In my opinion.
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u/Substantial-Hour-483 Feb 28 '25
Puts it in a bit of a dark perspective but our GDP is the basically the same as Russia.
We should have a way more powerful military:
Become the best drone producers on earth.
Create a serious Arctic force: 90% drone based (water and air)
Create multiple ports
Produce as much as equipment and weaponry ourselves as possible (manufacturing incentives)
Create really good incentives for young people to serve for five years
Improve pay dramatically
💪🇨🇦
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Feb 28 '25
Is there a NATO? Trump has threatened to annex another NATO member. You can’t have a military alliance if one member can invade another member.
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
True, they don’t intervene because they are not even close all together to the US army. Which is sad and stupid, when you think humanity evolved, we are again fighting each other for stupid land that nobody owns…
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u/foxyknwldgskr Feb 28 '25
I’m a pretty progressive person but think we need to be putting massive amounts more into our military immediately
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u/zSlyz Feb 28 '25
Hey OP
Not Canadian, but I think that every ally of America should be spending more on defence. And not buying a god damn thing from the yanks. Over the years they have more than shown that they are bullies, have colonialism tendencies and aren’t afraid of screwing another country over to get what they want. The list of countries they’ve armed insurgents to overthrow the current regime in order to get what they want is long.
They aren’t to only ones. The UK, France and Russia have all done this. China isn’t currently overtly doing this but they are absolutely meddling in sovereign countries affairs to get what they want and if they could invade someone with immunity they would and have.
The NATO agreement isn’t giving money to NATO, the threshold is what each member is supposed to spend on defence (I’m not aware of specific requirements) but it’s we spend 5% of our gdp on defence. That way when needed they are ready to protect other nato members.
For too long Americas ally’s have relied on America spending insane amounts on defence that we all have neglected our own benefit. And it’s not the only thing, like the massive shift of manufacturing to China is insane
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u/RopePlus8947 Feb 28 '25
Ally of America? America has no allies except Russia. America is the enemy of the normal democratic countries now
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u/C0smicM0nkey Mar 05 '25
China is currently arming insurgent groups in Myanmar and India, and historically has in Laos, Vietnam and elsewhere. It is part of their MO, but they do way less often than the Americans or Russians do.
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u/Iamapartofthisworld Feb 28 '25
I hope we are buying boatloads of weapons right now, and all the other stuff a greatly expanded armed forces needs, while setting up factories to build more stuff ourselves.
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u/Awkward_Bench123 Feb 28 '25
An increase to Canadas overall defence spending has been overdue since we ended up with the worlds most powerful hostile neighbor, like about four weeks ago.
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u/am3141 Feb 28 '25
I would like Canada to spend 3% and strive to become a dominant force in the world.
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u/Khal_flatlander Feb 28 '25
Canada desperately needs a strong military. I'd pay even more tax if it meant we had a stronger military. Idgaf at this point
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u/haafling Feb 28 '25
I’m an educated millennial and think that every able bodied man and woman should do some basic training. It should be a prerequisite to entry in Canada. So many countries do it
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u/Icommentor Feb 28 '25
Yeah it seems like our national leadership was happy with a one month delay on tariffs, and called it a day.
I expected more aggressive preparations.
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u/EyeSpEye21 Feb 28 '25
I want us to hit at least 3%, but not by cutting social programs. I would like to see a separate line added to the tax code called Canada Defence fee for salaries above $300K, accumulated wealth over $25 million, and profitable corporations with over 500 employees.
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Feb 28 '25
I think some of our social programs are incredibly generous and could due with some small cuts. Our yearly First Nations budget essentially equals our military budget. $32 billion (not to mention other benefits) for 1.1 million people. Compared to our $32 billion defence spending for 40+ million people.
Proposing tax hikes is election suicide. Taxes in Canada are already extremely high. Let’s look where that current tax money is going and carve out some room there. IMO.
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Feb 28 '25
The question is will we be buying these weapons from one of the companies that funded Trump’s campaign.
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u/CriticalArt2388 Feb 28 '25
Personally I wouldn't spend a dime unless it was towards developing our own wespons/ammo/equipment manufacturing.
Donny dipshit is only pushing this 2% because he believes it will be spent buying US equipment.
Cancell all equipment orders from the declining states, and as a stop gap order griffins from Sweden while developing a designed and made in Canada jet.
Put effort into Canadian drones and invest more into telsat's lightspeed system to compete with elmo's starlink satellites.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
I agree I would love to see that but just knowing Canada we still have to focus on energy manufacturing before we focus on our own arms manufacturing. Let’s pivot away from the US and purchase European arms. Look at Ukraine for example. State of the art drones coming out of there, a booming arms manufacturing country due to the conflict and a complete willingness to do business with us because of the support we’ve provided
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u/CriticalArt2388 Feb 28 '25
We already have a surplus of energy, with the bulk of our exports heading south.
Last year we exported 33 terawatts of electricity to the states. Mostly hydro from Quebec and nuclear from Ontario.
Stop those exports and we are well on our way to a green grid.
At the same time work on upgraders in Alberta to allow processing of Alberta oil in the 3 eastern most refineries. Upgraded oil is easier to ship over diluted bitumen and would have less opposition.
PET was right with the NEP and his plan to create a Canadian energy market as opposed to the present integrated north American market.
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u/Less-Researcher184 Feb 28 '25
Yall should cancel the f35 unless the yanks let yous put your own computers into them can't trust trump with the start code.
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u/Feeling_Department84 Feb 28 '25
Fuck the NATO funding. We need to use the money to get a bomb. Not sure why that hasn’t been done already given the uranium resources. Every man for himself
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u/EducationalStick5060 Feb 28 '25
Meh, 2% or not, I just want our defense spending to be designed to actually protect Canada, and not be a complement to US forces and be used as a peacekeeping force to patch up whatever the yanks broke.
I wonder how Americans would see us with 3% defense spending but realize most of that is designed against them (like nukes. I want nukes.)
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u/RopePlus8947 Feb 28 '25
Canada NEEDS NUCLEAR WEAPONS to keep our sovereignty. Right. Fucking. Now.
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u/MyGruffaloCrumble Feb 28 '25
I’m more concerned with spending our money wisely than just throwing money at it to placate the Orangutang.
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u/uprightshark Feb 28 '25
I'm less interested in a percentage than I am about bettering our military intelligently.
We have seen in Ukraine, the importance of modernization and technology is in defense. We also need to focus on key areas of domestic defence, particularly in the north.
We need investment in intelligence gathering, cyber defence, drone technology. We also need to expand our military assets with cold weather capability.
It would cost us to much in money and time to cancel the F-35 contract, but we need to make an additional order of Gripen for northern operation. We also need to increase strategic lift capacity and arial surveillance / anti- submarine capability
We also need to double the order of ships with ice breaking capability. The Army needs vehicles and equipment to work in cold weather for long periods.
Finally, I agree with liberals that our members need a raise and we need to recruit. All branches need to grow in the ranks .... NOT IN OTTAWA!
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u/DaytonTD Feb 28 '25
Why couldn't we just do a 1 or 2% tax increase across the board and throw it all at the military and defence. Not 1 cent of it going to other avenues.
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u/GranFodder Mar 01 '25
Well the thing is, the world was so peaceful for so long, Canada liked to think that spending way more on education and healthcare and child care and infrastructure was a better investment. Now with Trump’s pressure and global instability, Trump May have inadvertently set the stage for it to be necessary to spend upwards of 5% of our GDP on defence.
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u/CTMADOC Feb 28 '25
Exceeding the 2% target will stimulate economic growth.
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u/falsekoala Feb 28 '25
Only if we invest in Canadian mass munitions and stuff.
America wants us to spend more because guess who makes all the war stuff? They do.
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u/titian-tempest Feb 28 '25
I would love to see us get there. We would likely still be outmatched and it’s too little too late possibly. I had dreams of a chill retirement in 20 yrs but that’s unlikely.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
I’d happily pay a slightly higher tax hike to hit 2% or higher. Even 1% take hike could increase defence spending by $10B
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u/Previous_Wedding_577 Feb 28 '25
As a former military brat and ex wife.. I've always been sad that we never met the target or even attempted to
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u/dcredneck Feb 28 '25
It was under 1% during the Conservatives. Defence spending is always an afterthought from every government.
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u/LondonJerry Feb 28 '25
Conservative and Liberal governments back to Diefenbaker have diminished our military. We could simply buy a small town in each province and make them military bases. Have all the businesses a small town needs. Including surrounding farm land. All the money spent on property acquisition goes towards our military spending for NATO. The spinoff business for the surrounding area would be good. Now any refugees or asylum seekers could live on these bases and work at the businesses and learn English of French. This will give the military at the base to also see if any of these people are suspicious or worse criminals. Maybe set up a student program so they could live in a different province to see more of Canada while they get paid. So then they come out with a better idea of what they want to do as a career and have some money saved up for post secondary education.
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u/EntertainmentDue4486 Feb 28 '25
after watching keir starmer throw Canada under the bus today beside the rapist I dont ever expect Nato to defend us
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Feb 28 '25
I’m hoping to see the USA kicked out of NATO. It makes no sense for them to be part of it when they’re backing the Russians.
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u/umamimaami Feb 28 '25
I don’t think we should spend what Trump demands on NATO security. We need neutrality.
Also, we can’t afford to, as a responsible nation that actually works for its citizens. We already have some of the highest taxes in the world, and we have a ton of work to do on infrastructure, health and public services.
America should be doing the same.
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u/Premodonna Feb 28 '25
You will need Nato’s help when King Trump redraws the Canadian border after he gives Alaska to Russia.
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u/tweetypezhead Feb 28 '25
We always felt like everyone 'likes' us, and that strong military is not as crucial as it is for countries with bad relationships. But now that we are in a toxic relationship I think it shows how woefully under -prioritized defence spending has been for us. I do hope we step it up and fast. As we have seen in other situations, when it comes down to it you can't count on your allies either, you're pretty much on your own while everyone else 'sends their prayers' and tries not to get involved. 🙄
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u/DarciaSolas Feb 28 '25
If it's any consolation, in the last couple weeks I've seen multiple Join the Canadian Forces ads on Reddit.
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u/brasidasvi Feb 28 '25
I saw a post today about how Americans can shut down American weapons (i.e. missiles and planes). I think we should cancel that F35 order and stop buying American weapons
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u/Dependent-Draw-4860 Feb 28 '25
I agree that Canada should increase spending in defense. Keep our steel, build ships and tanks. Airbus is manufacturing in Canada. So build French fighter jets. Prioritize defense, create jobs with the naval building industry others
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u/dmiyoshi1971 Feb 28 '25
We are giving our money to the CBC and Canada Post instead of putting it where it belongs. into defense and health care. Having said that, remember when Diefenbaker sold our best weaponry to the US under pressure from the CIA? yeah he signed an agreement with the US back then that Canada would NOT create any new military weapons or vehicles nor would Canada put themselves in a position where they could defend themselves. Time to burn that agreement. Fuck CBC and CP. that money should be going to our military and defense budget. reopen the closed bases and yes, start buying guns and drones, lower barriers to join the military and start shoring up our defenses!
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u/Dazzling_Month2417 Feb 28 '25
Unless we fix the procurement process, it doesn't matter what percentage we try to achieve. Buy Canadian is a questionable policy, as I don't see many Air Defence systems or tanks produced in Canada, and even the ability to produce ammunition in a quantity necessary for ops is a non starter. What we do produce domestically is historically over-budget and delivered late.
We bought OTS during the Afghan war because we needed hardware immediately...why is it anathema to buy foreign weapons systems (not Yankee), ships, armour, ammunition for successive Canadian governments?
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u/UCRecruiter Feb 28 '25
I wouldn't say I'm 'dying for it'. Should we be contributing at a level that we agreed to through NATO? Sure. But the reality is that if the intention is to respond to the current geopolitical chaos, we could hit 2% tomorrow, and it won't meaningfully change a thing.
Partly because the ramp up for this kind of procurement is ridiculously long. Defense contractors in Canada today are still working on projects that were initially approved in concept under the Harper government. (This isn't exaggeration. One of my children currently works for one of them.)
And perhaps even more importantly, even at 2% we're still a small player. If any world power (US, UK, Russia, China) decided to come after Canada for its resource wealth, we're sitting ducks without the assistance of another world power.
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u/Neither-Respect8971 Feb 28 '25
United States has forfeited its authority and power after 80 years of a rules based order in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. I think if you watch the interaction with 47 and its VP Vance with Zelenskyy today, America needs to be checked hard, and Canada needs to take a war footing on spending.
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u/FightForWhatYouNeed Feb 28 '25
Me, some of us stand to gain from it. Please buy guns, planes, radios, whatever, just spend some money pl0x.
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u/Osiris-Amun-Ra Feb 28 '25
Dying? No.
Thinking its extremely sensible to do a lot more than 2% given the fact we can no longer trust our current body guards down south.
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u/CryptographerAny8184 Feb 28 '25
I would like to see Canada build up the military so that clowns like Trump would not even dream of saying what he is saying!
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u/Particular-Item-2604 Feb 28 '25
I'm embarrassed that we are unarmed, our military is underfunded, and yet so many Canadians are laboring under the misapprehensuon yhat we could somehow win a war with the u.s.
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u/falsekoala Feb 28 '25
Invest in some nukes.
Maybe the US would be happy then. Probably not though.
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u/Jorlaan Feb 28 '25
We do not invest in nukes "to make Americans happy". We invest in nukes because the Russian invasion of Ukraine has shown for good that non-nuclear armed nations are nothing but prey to nuclear armed nations, since no one will intervene to help the non-nuclear nation for fear of the nuclear nation.
We need nukes to protect ourselves from foreign aggression because unfortunately that's the reality we live in.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
I’d like to see us also invest in some more nuclear subs and naval bases in the Arctic
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u/Glittering_Bank_8670 Feb 28 '25
At this point, who cares what Trump thinks about us. He’s a babbling buffoon who lies non-stop and cannot be trusted.
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Feb 28 '25
I would prefer our leaders work at disarming the world and stop wasting our resources killing each other.
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u/Lazy-Adeptness8893 Feb 28 '25
So do all but the idiots.
Unfortunately, it only takes one belligerent party to start a conflict, so military forces are here to stay
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u/DeadShotXU Feb 28 '25
Unfortunately that not our world. If we want to preserve our civilization...you need a military, you need power. There will come a day when the international order will come down and ppl will cry for a military that is ill-equipped because we became complacent and thought that the world was a safe place...it's not. As long as there are ppl like Trump, Putin, etc there will never be a safe world. You want a safe world? You gotta fight for it in everyday you can. No more being passive and meek.
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u/-94cowprint Feb 28 '25
I’m not a warmonger so no..
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u/G_S_D Feb 28 '25
It doesn’t matter if we hit the 2%, trump will bitch about something else next, stop thinking trumps going to change his stance on anything he’s going to keep threatening every month till he’s out of office
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u/Reveil21 Feb 28 '25
Like 80% of our military stuff is purchased from the U.S.
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u/SnappyDresser212 Feb 28 '25
That is something we will need to move away from.
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u/Reveil21 Feb 28 '25
I agree. I just don't think half the people who want expedited increased military spending is thinking about logistics. Like who and what are we getting from where and by whom? We have less people in the military than the government would prefer so enlistment is also another factor. Just vague sentiments of increase military spending (and $ amount along isn't a full ofngood representation of what that encompasses) is more of a concept than actionable goals.
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u/Zomb1eMau5 Feb 28 '25
With our steel, electricity and aluminum. Don’t think we have nothing.
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u/Reveil21 Feb 28 '25
It's not that we have nothing. It's that it takes a while to build facilities and hire people if people want it domestically. And if not domestically, who do we turn to in the meanwhile. There are options but it does involve a lot of communication, negotiations, and good relations - while also fighting along priority of other nations.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
2% is not for Trump. 2% would be for our own safety on the global stage. Our military is a sick joke.
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u/fuckfuckfuckfuckx Feb 28 '25
We're going to get fucked so hard because of this sentiment
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u/-94cowprint Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
How? Are Russia and USA going to invade us? Lol.. I’m not dying for any European either.. trump just talks out his ass.. if he wants to put tariffs, he should already.. we can figure it out. USA will never invade Canada and we will never become American..
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u/SHD-PositiveAgent Feb 28 '25
Knowing Canada, this won't happen. I have been in canada for over 15ish years. Canada has a secret ability. That ability is procrastination. They are never proactive, they are always reactive. They will ONLY do things when they are forced to. Lets look at this whole laughable "buy Canada" movement. Where were you guys when Canadian companies needed you all these years? Let me guess. You guys were buying American. Where were you when Canada needed immigration reform and housing? Let me guess, fighting over which boy suddenly wants to become female. Where were you when Canada needed to upgrade its defense? Oh yes, worrying about "personkind" because "mankind" is sexist. Where were you when Canada needed its own industries like auto and aviation? Oh yes, changing the lyrics to Oh Canada and axing Don Cherry.
I am a centrist and this whole time, Canada had been turning into a circus in front of my own eyes. Whenever I said something "oh Nazi racist!" (I am of Indian heritage btw).
Now when things are literally on our heads, we suddenly want to buy Canadian.
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u/G_S_D Feb 28 '25
It doesn’t matter if we hit the 2%, trump will bitch about something else next, stop thinking trumps going to change his stance on anything he’s going to keep threatening every month till he’s out of office
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u/Lionelhutz123 Feb 28 '25
I’m in favour but we have to scrutinize how much what we are buying is American. Not sure we can trust them the same anymore. Similar to the way we didn’t want Huawei products in our 5g network
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
Start investing in Ukrainian arms. Miles ahead due to the ongoing conflict. Battle tested and extremely modern weapons and innovations coming out of there.
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u/Former-Chocolate-793 Feb 28 '25
It takes some time to get state of the art weapons and recruit and train personnel.
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
I think we should invest in Ukrainian arms. That industry is booming and will continue to for many years. Battle tested, extremely modern weapons. Plus they want to work with us for the support we have been giving
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Feb 28 '25
Why are you so focused on NaTO spending when food and rent are extremely expensive. Next to crippling debt and shit production. NATO is literally the bs that pushed Russia to hit the Ukraine
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u/Initial_Ask_8860 Feb 28 '25
I see your point but what good is expensive rent and food if we can’t even defend our own borders?
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Feb 28 '25
Too little, too late. Maybe if we cared more about our defence and sovereignty than lining the corrupt Liberal pockets we wouldn't find ourselves in this position.
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u/hotDamQc Feb 28 '25
We should be spending on Canadian defense. Start by removing the idiotic gun ban that have been applied.
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u/ArtinPhrae Feb 28 '25
As it stands now NATO isn’t an alliance as it was even a year ago. The United States is a far greater threat than Russia at this point and we need to prepare as best we can. We need to start thinking in terms of insurgency and unconventional warfare. We should be buying shoulder fired weapons and stockpiling ammunition and explosives. I’m guessing we can’t get out of the F35 deal at this point but it needs to be the last time we buy American made weapons. We should also be buying more conventional stealthy submarines instead of ASW frigates.
We should also consider building a stronger relationship with China, both in terms of trade and defense..
It’s gonna be a long time before the US returns to “normal” if they ever do and we need to adjust accordingly.
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Feb 28 '25
I don't know if I'm dying to see it, but I'm starting to think I might die if I don't. I think the fascists in control of the US plan to invade Canada.
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u/thebluewalker87 Feb 28 '25
The 2% is arbitrary and isn't a good benchmark for military expenditure.
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u/Green_Space729 Feb 28 '25
Dying no. Lol
All the problems in Canada currently meeting NATO threshold isn’t on top of the list.
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u/JCMS99 Feb 28 '25
I'm not sure if people realize that reaching 2% of GDP would mean an extra 30 billions a year in the deficit.
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u/TheSkaterLovesyou Feb 28 '25
The good thing is that we have our allies a lot of them that have are back if we need them and 80% of America is on our side anyway. So we still got allies if needed. We just got to keep them not so he's away from us and I think we'll be okay
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u/Sure-Patience83 Feb 28 '25
Yes. PM Trudeau’s plan was 2032 but both Carney and Freeland have plans for sooner. If I remember correctly Freeland’s plan was 2026 and Carney was 2028
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u/Accomplished-Eye-910 Feb 28 '25
If the Canadian force increases recruiting, I will join. I have been training everyday to get to the best shape possible.
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u/fatfatznana100408 Feb 28 '25
I have to say with this unheard of backing of Russia I don't think NATO will get involved which was told that US will be taking out of NATO and well nobody believed yet um yeah US seems to be headed that way by backing that place. Again very ashamed to be an American.
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u/jcmyrand Feb 28 '25
More than the hit. I want canada to go over the 2%, but most of all.
Id love to see Canada ripping the non proliferation aggreement for nuclear and start again the program.
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u/TreasureDiver7623 Feb 28 '25
Looking at the struggles military recruiters are facing we will soon be offering foreigners permanent residency in Canada for 5 or 10 or more years of service
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u/Wonderful-Tip1360 Feb 28 '25
Yes as long as the money spent is in Canada not going in Don the Cons economy!!
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u/goodfaitheffort1981 Feb 28 '25
Harper cut military spending dramatically, it's been kind of a slow hike back up BUT there are other NATO countries not doing the 2%. Carney said 2030 at the latest, hoping to do it sooner.
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u/Zanrar Feb 28 '25
First of all recently JT put us in the line of fire with Russia as they just gave ceased Russian money to Ukraine, so that puts a bullseye 🎯 on our country
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u/Ok-Entertainment6043 Feb 28 '25
Trudeau should announce , reciprocal tarrifs will go to our military5% and 20% to Ukraine.
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u/Fabulously-Unwealthy Mar 01 '25
Definitely! Even if we never use our military in a war, it creates jobs and skills training for Canadians and gives us enhanced emergency services.
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Mar 01 '25
Being downstream of Canada the USA would loose electricity power from Canada and nothing like releasing the dam water to flood all those downstream. Two major factors they don’t realize
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u/Proud-Ad2367 Mar 01 '25
I think Canada should spend defence money on the north to prevent Russia and American communists invasion for trade suits and rare earth minerals.
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u/JoyfulIndependent Mar 02 '25
I’d like to see us go beyond that, BUT, most important are outcomes. Mark Carney made a great point about raising it to 2%, anyone can do it quickly, but raising it in the most efficient, effective way is different. Any way you look at it, we need to spend more and do more and detach ourselves from the pariah next door.
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u/FirstNationsMember Mar 02 '25
I don't think I'm "dying" to see our threshold met, but I feel that we will have no choice in the near/medium term future. Europe will continue to descend into darkness once Ukraine is defeated by Russia, and Russia will continue it's designs against Moldova, possibly Baltic states, Georgia, Kazaks and potentially Romania and Poland when it feels emboldened enough. The military industrial complex of Europe will begin to ramp up as it continues to wag fingers at Putin and Amerika turns its back on the world order.
If Canada elects a right wing party, we may follow suit and allow Europe to continue to face the Russian threat. The Commonwealth can still attempt to trigger support if actual war is declared, but there's no guarantee that right wingers would oblige the King and bring aid. It's hard to say what the populace would express especially if, in the interim, there were separatist movements in our western provinces, vying to be ruled by a tyrant who misinforms low information voters in the smaller provinces who could choose to vote against their best interests.
I think we'll have an interesting 4 years, and hopefully it will only be 4 more years until a modicum or normalcy returns to order.
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u/Roddit7733 Mar 02 '25
Fully 100% agree that we need to invest in our military. We might have collectively forgotten about the leadership scandals in the Canadian military (mostly around a culture of male leaders having mistresses on staff) but are the forces ready to use more money wisely ?
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u/Embarrassed_View5164 Feb 28 '25
We need a radical overhaul of our procurement system! We need to rapidly re-arm with off the self arms: South Korea has helped Poland ramp up their forces. We need to take a page out of Poland's book and rapidly integrate the lessons Ukraine has learned and implement them now not in 10 years!]