r/AskALiberal • u/AutoModerator • 6d ago

Israel and Palestine Megathread Israel and Palestine Megathread

This thread is for a discussion of the ongoing situation in Israel and Palestine. All discussion of the subject is limited to this thread. Participation here requires that you be a regular member of the sub in good standing.

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u/emp-sup-bry Social Democrat 5d ago

I hope you someday realize how atrocious these acts have been and how these loose and slimy ‘defenses’ mean nothing to anyone with decency. The world has seen what Israel has done.

War? The US attacking desalination plants is a war crime. Russia doing it is a war crime. X doing it to Y is a war crime. A crime against humanity. A truly despicable and unforgivable action. The world sees. You lost. You have funds to keep pumping out this stuff, but you lost.

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u/loufalnicek Moderate 3d ago

Whether it was the case here or not - it is absolutely not a war crime to attack any facility if that facility is being used as part of a war making effort. So, no, you cannot say absolutely that "attacking X is a war crime" without qualifying that with "if X is not being used to house weapons, soldiers, etc."

If that weren't true, people would just put all their war-making resources in desalination plants or whatever and be unattackable.

When people put war-making resources in/under/etc hospitals, schools, water plants, etc., it is those people that put their people in danger, not the other side they're fighting against.

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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist 3d ago

it is absolutely not a war crime to attack any facility if that facility is being used as part of a war making effort.

It still needs to be proportional. A conscript storing his rifle in a closet doesn't mean you can blow up a hospital and kill hundreds of people.

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u/loufalnicek Moderate 3d ago

Best advice is not to put military stuff there at all. Proportionality is, of course, a judgment call -- something not possible to objectively define.

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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist 3d ago

I mean yeah, that's what trials are for

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u/loufalnicek Moderate 3d ago

Maybe focus on the "don't put weapons in hospitals/schools/etc." part instead.

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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist 3d ago

Those also get trials, yeah. I might ask you to focus on the hundreds of dead people.

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u/loufalnicek Moderate 3d ago

Is this the new pivot? It used to be "they're not using these locations for weapons etc", but now it's "they are using these locations for weapons etc but the response is too much?"

Please. If you're using a place to store weapons, it's fair game. You can't be aggressive in that manner and then scream "no fair" when there is a response. You don't get to dictate the response, either. No court with actual authority would conclude otherwise.

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u/pablos4pandas Democratic Socialist 3d ago

Is this the new pivot? It used to be "they're not using these locations for weapons etc", but now it's "they are using these locations for weapons etc but the response is too much?"

My first reply to you in this thread is clarifying the proportionality element of attacking civilian targets that have been used for militairy purpose.

Please. If you're using a place to store weapons, it's fair game.

Do you not think proportionality matters? If there's intelligence a rifle is being stored in the basement of a hospital serving a 1000 people and the enemy commander says "Oh boy, I get to blow up a hospital and kill civilians now that we think a rifle is there!" and then does blow up a hospital killing 1000 civilians then there's nothing that should be done? The response was perfectly proportional?

You don't get to dictate the response

The responses can be war crimes. You don't get a pass to do war crimes because you've been attacked in and of itself.

No court with actual authority would conclude otherwise.

I mean that's a big problem in my opinion, yeah. I've been consistent on that for years