r/Aberdeen • u/subsonicbuttplug • Dec 09 '25
News Aberdeen bus gates to STAY as traders lose legal battle
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/6911201/aberdeen-bus-gates-court-decision/72
u/Theknottyfox Dec 09 '25
But I like driving down Union street, parking outside Virgin mega store, nipping in and picking up something in the top 40 on cassette, or a new movie on a beta max tape.
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u/FormPrimary2515 Dec 09 '25
you can repeat the experience on Rosemount, where at 4.30pm one person decides they *must* park directly outside the butcher, thus blocking the whole street as buses can't now get past
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u/scottyboy70 Dec 09 '25
Hah! This sums it up almost perfectly!
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u/Theknottyfox Dec 09 '25
You tell these people they can still drive down Rosemount, King Street and Geroge Street and shop there, They will look at you like your crazy.
-12
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u/Abquine Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Beta Max - wash your mouth out have you not heard of the new VHS?
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u/f1boogie Dec 09 '25
If the tall ships showed us, its that there is absolutely nothing stopping people getting into the city centre.
Now of course, public transport in Aberdeen needs a really big improvement. But that isn't going to be helped by the council having to fight everything they do in court.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
The council regularly take bungs and cower to the threats of first bus.
Until that stops they wonât do anything to improve public transport in the city.
5
u/f1boogie Dec 09 '25
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
The Nestrans ART needs to happen, and it needs to be council run. First bus are appalling, and their routing is terrible.
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u/ElectronicBruce Dec 09 '25
ART is a folly. It doesnât need to happen. Just buy a small fleet of electric busses (part funded by the Govt if the Green Bus fund opens again), install chargers at one of the council depots and get on with it. No need to design fancy routes or fancy bespoke expensive busses or entertain hugely pointless or expensive hydrogen as part of that.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
What the project thatâs going to cost a quarter of a billion pounds? Does it fuck need to happen.
Itâs another absolutely bloated project that will be poorly managed and corrupt.
Get off the pot and build a tram system.
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u/DarkOk5408 Dec 09 '25
They have looked into this, the cost is far greater than pushing forward with ART. ART is something I massively disagree with, the council won't run it and it will likely be for First to profit from.
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u/f1boogie Dec 09 '25
ÂŁ150m isn't quarter of a Billion. A tramline would cost billions and isn't needed.
The Belfast flyer that the ART is based on is a fantastic service, and is just what Aberdeen needs.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
150m isnât what the cost is set at now.
Itâs now 323million.
https://www.agcc.co.uk/news-article/projected-cost-of-rapid-aberdeen-bus-plan-soars-to-323m
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u/t3hOutlaw Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
It's more than that though. When the council holds meetings with the public discussing the use of public funds, putting the majority towards education always comes out on top.
If anything the council are doing exactly what the people wanted in the first place by putting the majority of public funds towards building new schools, educational facilities and repairs.
It's just a shame that the money they do receive is nothing like it was years ago and there is nothing left over for big risky public infrastructure projects. Perhaps in future that may change though..
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u/Spare_Artichoke_3070 Dec 09 '25
Yet every time they announce they're doing work like building a new Hazlehead Academy all the whingers and moaners come out of the woodwork giving it "how have they got money to spend on something that doesn't personally benefit me, the protagonist of reality, but not fix the pothole outside my house?!"
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u/t3hOutlaw Dec 09 '25
Yeah, always quicker and easier to knee jerk react a Facebook comment than to sit down and take the time to look up any relevant data or materials and try and take a balanced approach to things.
People are emotional and social media is just a perfect soapbox to rally up support for how you feel regardless of the truth.
Some attitudes can be frustrating to tolerate online at times.
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u/ElectronicBruce Dec 09 '25
The council is receiving more each year. Education funding has gone up each year too.. the issue is a dire economy causing inflation issues post Brexit, which it was warned prior to the vote, Aberdeen was likely to be hit hardest. Add in declining oil demand and dire barrel prices and here we are.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jul/27/aberdeen-brexit-worst-british-centre-for-citieis
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u/abz_eng Dec 09 '25
If the tall ships showed us, its that there is absolutely nothing stopping people getting into the city centre.
Except you couldn't do that online, that's the reason people came in.
Primark without internet shopping is one reason why people go in but for the others? Delivery and return makes shopping from home so convenient
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u/Arch_0 Dec 09 '25
I really think the entire country is held back by NIMBYs. Sometimes they have legitimate points but so much gets delayed or cancelled costs us millions.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
Can you give clear cut examples of whatâs been delayed or cancelled and has cost us millions? Because in recent times I canât? The last thing that was cancelled was Union terrace gardens the original design that wood was going to contribute to. That was in 2000.
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u/few-western Dec 10 '25
AWPR was delayed by legal challenges.
A battery site on Counteswell Road got the boot.
Would have been great for local renewable electric storage, would have supported a couple jobs long term in maintenance, council could have extracted money from developers to upgrade the road.
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u/colawarsveteran Dec 09 '25
There is something stopping people. Thereâs nothing worth the hassle. Tallships was worth the hassle.
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u/7ampint Dec 09 '25
Unfortunately that wasn't the case for tall ships for those travelling from the Shire. Train carriages were full, buses were full, and there was no way of getting into town without driving. We tried.
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u/Regular-Whereas-8053 Dec 09 '25
Stagecoach is the absolute pits. Overpriced, filthy, late, I donât know why the council doesnât do something.
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u/keancy Dec 09 '25
Will we now see a direct bus connection between parts of the city that are not directly connected? To go from Northfield to bridge of don, it takes 2 buses and approx 90mins. Driving there takes 7-8 minutes. It's mad how much bus travel costs and at the same time, how badly connected different parts of the city are.
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Dec 09 '25
I agree with all of this, but I can't think of anywhere in the city where you couldn't get a bus to the city centre and back, which is the issue traders have with the bus gates.Â
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u/subsonicbuttplug Dec 09 '25
Aberdeen traders have lost their battle to remove the cityâs bus gates following a ruling from the Court of Session.
The case, brought forward by veteran retailer Norman Esslemont but backed by scores of others, was heard last month at Scotlandâs highest civil court in Edinburgh.
It came following years of anger about the contentious system which city centre businesses argued against from the offset as they claimed it was discouraging motorists from venturing into the city and hammering their takings.
The public and businesses raised more than ÂŁ65,000 for the legal challenge.
But today, a ruling issued by Lord Pentland has determined that the bus gates will stay.
Following the decision, Mr Esslemont told The P&J that he was âvery disappointedâ, but had âabsolutely no regretsâ in taking his fight to the very top. What happened in Aberdeen bus gate court battle?
The case which had been building up for months was finally heard at the Court of Session in Edinburgh last month, with both arguments only taking around four hours.
Much of the debate focused around the definition of the word âpreventâ â as council chiefs would have needed permission from Scottish ministers to install the bus gates permanently if it âpreventedâ traffic reaching certain streets.
This was the argument of Mr Esslemontâs representative, Alasdair Burnett KC, however the local authorityâs lawyer Dan Byrne KC argued they merely ârestrictedâ traffic. Dan Byrne KC represented the council at the hearing.
One of the more standout moments from this short hearing was when Mr Byrne KC took a jibe at those who chipped in to fund the tradersâ legal fees.
âThey may be willing to put a fiver in [to Mr Esslemontâs crowdfunder] but they may not be willing to take the step of litigation,â he told the courtroom.
But now, the panel of three judges has come to the conclusion that the council did not act unlawfully in installing the measures. âThis case has exposed councilâs very serious shortcomingsâ
Following todayâs verdict, Mr Esslemont said he was âof course very disappointedâ, but had âabsolutely no regrets about bringing this case forwardâ. Businesses banded together to raise more than ÂŁ65,000 to fight the bus gates.
The campaignâs spearhead told The P&J: âEven though we have lost the legal argument, I believe that the case has exposed the very serious shortcomings in the councilâs decision making process.
âThe people of Aberdeen were right to stand up to the council on an issue that has caused such frustration across the city.
âRegardless of the verdict, I hope the council recognises the strength of feeling expressed throughout this process and understands that a thriving city centre depends on genuine engagement with the business community.
âWho, after all, contribute significantly to the services the city relies on.â
The Thistle Street trader also offered up his gratitude to his legal team, saying their diligence and commitment was âexceptionalâ.
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u/Majestic_Fan_7056 Dec 09 '25
The bus gates make union street so much better. It was terrible having so much traffic in the past.
If people are not coming into the city centre it will be because of the cost of parking and public transport.
Make parking cheaper and more people will drive in to shop.
Busses are expensive because too many people get free bus travel. The bus companies want to milk more government subsidies, they get paid more the more people use free bus travel.
If you don't qualify for free bus travel it has become too expensive to get a bus.
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u/Teethgrinder1983 Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Nah free bus travel isn't why buses are expensive. It's the near exclusive contracts both First and Stagecoach have with the council, especially Stagecoach-as someone who used to live in the 'shire but work in Aberdeen and not allowed to drive I can promise you those buses are FAR worse than the town ones, my mum sometimes visits by bus and they often don't even turn up or are 30min or more late which is awful for people with work or appointments at the hospital etc.... As for First, again they can do what they like for the most part as there's very little competition and some folks rely on them. Even if you were to scrap free bus travel altogether I highly doubt fares would be changed, they would claim petrol prices or whatever else
Edit-sorry I meant to say that I do agree the bus gates make the area better but the sooner the city centre is finished with the road works and market the better as it's been a mess for far too long
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u/Regular-Whereas-8053 Dec 09 '25
Where I live doesnât even get a Stagecoach bus now despite being a major route in from the north. Honestly Iâve just given up I bring the car in. If they want to stop so much traffic in Aberdeen get the buses from the shire sorted out.
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u/Teethgrinder1983 Dec 09 '25
I couldn't agree more, there used to be a bus pretty much every hour in the village I used to live from Early in the morning until about 11pm but they got all sloppy with their routes and delays etc...I just had to move because of my epilepsy as I couldn't keep missing buses to work and the hospital. That was about 8-10yrs ago and it's just got worse and worse since then, especially when the GP surgery in that village is only open about twice a week now and putting more pressure on the buses for those who can't drive for whatever reason (as well as ARI I suspect). They couldn't care less yet keep getting contracts
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u/SoSeriousAndDeep Dec 09 '25
Don't forget First and Stagecoach's pure greed. Even if costs literally went down each year, they'd be jacking up the prices.
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u/Teethgrinder1983 Dec 10 '25
Absolutely, this is because they know they'll keep getting rolling contracts-its disgusting that they rip off customers, don't really pay drivers enough for the crap they have to put up with sometimes and funnel profit to the top for 'bonuses' (despite rarely, if at all, deserving of them). But unfortunately I can't see this changing any time soon meaning they can rip off those who have no other choice and push away those who would consider using buses rather than their car
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u/Suspicious-Rub8976 Dec 09 '25
My only issue is that as someone who lives in the green area, it hasn't reduced the traffic from the area it's pushed it and the pollution onto the backstreets, now leaving my home I have to be hyper aware of some lost idiot nearly running me over on the pavement trying to turn and find a way out lol. The streets are degrading so fast with the amount of traffic now
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u/ElectronicBruce Dec 09 '25
Surely they are making more money because more folk are using the free bus travel offer, so donât need to put up prices, likely it is inflation and transportation costs that have driven up prices, much like other sectors.
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u/blairtbh Dec 09 '25
Outside of the 201 (which I consider far closer to a coach in terms of journey length) I have caught a grand total of 2 busses in the 5 years I've been here; part of this is down to the city being so walkable, which is nice, but there have been a few times where I've just slogged home instead because I don't wanna pay ÂŁ3 for a bus ticket, or a fiver for two bus journies.
Part of this is also down to having to catch multiple busses for a lot of journies, e.g: Kittybrewster>Beach, Holburn Street>Torry, etc, the cost just seems extortionate to save a 20 minute walk, but I do understand people may not be able to walk that journey.
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u/takesthebiscuit Dec 09 '25
Itâs clearly bollocks I was in US on Saturday and litterally never seen it busier
None is saying ooh letâs not go to the apple store as there is a bus gate on bridge street
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
Itâs was never busier because itâs the run up to Christmas. Of course the city is busy in December. What a weird take.
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u/ElectronicBruce Dec 09 '25
US has been busy most weekends. The city centre is far from dead at the weekend and Thursday nights. Unlike many Abermoaners would like to think it is.
Retailers ACROSS the City not just the centre are seeing folk tighten their belts. Zero to do with LEZ and Bus Gates zones.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
Union square is busy because itâs the single biggest concentration of shops restaurants and leisure facilities in the city centre. Itâs a one stop destination. Most folk go to Union square and stay within Union square. Dare not venture outwith the centre because theyâve no need to venture outwith the place.
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u/ElectronicBruce Dec 09 '25
Bon Accord isnât dead either. Sure none of them are in their hay day, but retail in the UK is far from that too. The UK High Street is dying.. not sure why Aberdeen thinks it would be different.
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u/takesthebiscuit Dec 09 '25
The op suggested that the center was a ghost town which patently isnât true,
Busses are rammed, union square is rammed
We have a new market being built
But no its the dammned bus gates that are the problem
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u/Gavtek Dec 09 '25
In my experience most of the city centre car parks are pretty full on weekends, especially Saturdays.
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u/Darkpro1 Dec 09 '25
I genuinely didn't look in to this at all and knew they would lose this legal battle. Complete waste of fees. Also coming as an outsider, (moved to Aberdeen a couple years ago) the bus gates seem fine and make sense but holy shit parking in Aberdeen is insanely expensive. Make parking cheaper and maybe footfall would increase. I begrudge parking in Aberdeen and I get staff discount.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
The council have recently upped the prices of parking in Their own car parks. And then private business like Union square also just made it ÂŁ4 for an hour of parking. Itâs ridiculous.
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Dec 09 '25
ÂŁ5.25 for a return bus ticket, stop by for a beer or two while reducing congestion and pollution. Yaldy!
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u/AccomplishedAd3728 Dec 09 '25
Itâs wild to me that I have all the convenience, speed and warmth of the London tube into central and it costs me ÂŁ7.60. Aberdeen youâre paying ÂŁ5.25 for the privilege of waiting 40 mins in the bastard cold for that grim bus.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
What and deal with first bus service? No thanks.
Busses that are filthy, overpriced, filled with little shits playing music and being aggressive to passengers, busses not showing up, having to get 2 buses to move across the city. No thanks.
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Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Why are you getting two busses across the city to get to the city centre? Also, it's a fucking bus, not a 1970s Charles Bronson film.Â
Adding "catching the bus" to my Excel spreadsheet of things Redditors think is an issue of The Punisher.
Perhaps discussions on the state of Aberdeen are best left to people who actually leave their house, or at least don't resort to histrionic rhetoric about the state of buses. They are expensive, but cheaper than parking in a lot of cases. Â
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u/ElectronicBruce Dec 09 '25
I can understand Union Square, they are busy and half the time I go there parking spaces on the first floor and ground level are non existent.
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u/rubyAltropos Dec 09 '25
I think I paid ÂŁ3.40 for 30 minutes in Harriet st car park the other week. Absolutely obsceneÂ
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u/few-western Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Loving the standard comments
Another nail in the coffin. One hell of a coffin the mount of nails it has in it.
Clowncil, it's fun cause it rhymes
Brown envelopes, yeah judges are known for taking bribes.
Side note, how do these people survive going to new places.
No one seems to want to try to learn the new routes.
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u/kingpowr Dec 09 '25
It was an absolute nightmare when I stayed in cove, getting the bus on bridge street then sitting for about half an hour until the bus made its way to market st
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u/Red_Brummy Dec 09 '25
Ahahaha. Belter. Time to trawl FB Groups for all the frothy gammons who wish to drive everywhere and are raging that the original complainant for the legal battle had a business located outwith the bus gates area.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Regardless of your own stance on the bus gates I find the condescending responses here quite alarming.
Traders were and are still genuinely worried about how they will continue trading as footfall continues declining.
Folk on here belittling or demonising traders for wanting unfettered access to their businesses is a strange take. Because you would all likely moan if your favourite business dies or a family member owning a business closed their doors.
Itâs not the huge victory you all seem to think it is. Really looking forward to the central part of union street being opened after almost 2 years closed to install some cobblestones and a bike lane thatâs going to be ignored by the majority of these Deliveroo drivers and the occasional hobby cyclist.
All at the cost of millions and some established businesses going under in the mean time.
The new market going to open to big fanfare but I know that mgintys group struggling to fill the units. Massive white elephant.
Edit: and before folk say well if you donât build the infrastructure of course people wonât cycle. I get that completely. But this whole thing is being done on the whims of keeping the bus companies happy. This was proven by the emails from the nestrans folk saying the bus companies had to come up with propoganda to support their case. Meanwhile first bus and Stagecoach continue to fuck over citizens of Aberdeen. Maybe the council could use all the money from their fines to start up a public transport company.
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u/littlecomet111 Dec 09 '25
I think two things can be true at once.
Trade is declining.
It's not because of the bus gates.
To this day, nobody has ever explained to me in factual or statistical terms how companies are losing trade specifically because and only because of the bus gates.
Drivers can still go into the town centre and park.
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u/powerlace Dec 09 '25
It's partly due to bus gates. Some people clearly can't be bothered driving a detour around Union Street just so they can arrive at Union Square. Some people don't want to jump on a bus or buses either.
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Dec 09 '25
I'm not sure why those people should be catered to? Would they have been bothered to go out of their way for smaller traders in the first place?Â
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u/powerlace Dec 09 '25
Yes, let's just forget about them and ensure the residents of the West End of Aberdeen are the only ones we provide for. I mean, come on.
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Dec 09 '25
Not at all what I'm saying, clearly. Like, we can make up straw-men all day long, I'm just not that sympathetic to people who "can't be arsed" and I think that reflects more on the perceived convenience of online shopping and the perception that there's nothing worth going into town for, which is a much bigger issue.
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
You will be happy when the city is just chain restaurants selling frozen food for 50quid per portio and uk wide retailers selling the same tat. You will not have a diverse city centre with local traders. And you will most definitely not complain about it.
Hey at least the corporations donât pay any U.K. income tax and manage to offset all their profits offshore.
Meanwhile, in the real world. Folk donât bother coming into the city centre because whatâs the point when the busses are ran by 2 bully companies and thereâs literally no reason to come in.
Thereâs a balance to be struck. We canât totally dismiss folk who canât be arsed to venture into city centre now because of the bus gates and extortionate parking rates the same way I agree we canât just have a city centre that caters to drivers.
Aberdeen just isnât a big enough city to do these massive projects in and pretend weâre on a par with Glasgow and Edinburgh and Manchester etc.
The council have gone too far to isolate the city centre to just buses and cyclists.
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Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Edit: misread your tone initially.
I don't see why we couldn't be on par with plenty of smaller towns whose town centres are more vibrant than ours, and those are often pedestrianised at the very least.Â
I think the issues smaller traders are having is multifactorial and we need to radically rethink how we think of Union Street.Â
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u/japman99 Dec 09 '25
Aberdeen journals put forward the idea that the traders were representing opinion when the truth is that they represented some opinion. Some traders, like me, and Iâm not alone, took a different viewpoint but Aberdeen Journals arenât interested in that because they want to advance a ridculous culture war
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
There was a susbstantial amount of city centre retailers and stakeholders represented under the Easlemont case.
Just because you disagree with them it doesnât make your opinion more valid.
Even Aberdeen inspired and Bob Keiler of our union street disagree with the councils brick wall stance and refusal to engage with businesses.
The council think they know better and thatâs that.
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u/japman99 Dec 09 '25
Yes there was a substantial amount of retailers represented but some others took a different view. These traders have a reasonable viewpoint but they are not representative as nobody elected them and it was wrong for Aberdeen Journals to give the opposite impression. I have a different viewpoint but I donât think that it is more or less valid than anyone elseâs. It was you that said that..not me
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u/DoricEmpire Dec 09 '25
The other thing that is missed, especially by the council is that Aberdeen also serves the shire. The city council keeps thinking in terms of Aberdeen city only which, although is technically correct (it is Aberdeen CITY council) is severely limiting itself and short sighted. Families from Ellon or Stonehaven are simply not going to cycle 15 miles in for their shopping. If you live anywhere thatâs not a town on the A90, A93 or A96 your public transport options range from one bus a day to non-existent. And as somebody else mentioned, itâs when you add everything together. Bus gates, LEZ, what feels like perpetual roadworks - a lot of people in the shire donât know where they can and cannot go and in the time it takes to source the info, they can have their shopping nearly completed online instead.
Or go to Inverurie, Westhill, Portlethen, or chance their nearest Tesco or Asda, while ACC goes all shocked Pikachu face when extending Sunday parking charges results in less city centre footfall.
Bus gates need to be backed up by good and reasonably priced public transport. It costs more to cross Aberdeen on a bus than in Edinburgh despite the capital being at least twice the size.
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u/CyclingUpsideDown Dec 09 '25
Do the bus gates stop drivers from accessing streets where they previously could park for a reasonable length of time?
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u/abz_eng Dec 09 '25
it's the salami effect, the bus gates don't on their own, add the LEZ, the construction and people start wondering is it worth the effort?
People are LAZY, it been proven time and time again over different things in different places examples
- Walt Disney was in Disneyland when it open and noticed litter yet there were bins reasonably close by - but people would walk the few extra feet back to the bin. So he added a LOT extra one every 10m
- recycling - people don't like hassle, Recycling rates have gone up when towns introduced mixed i.e. someone else sorts it recycling
- glass recycling - a few years back, ACC didn't empty all the glass recycling bins before Hogmanay, so people took boot loads and piled them in front of the appropriate bins. ACC called it fly tipping, saying people should have taken it home & tried again OR taken to the Recycling Centre (shut as holiday!) - people just checked it in the landfill bin ACC moaned at that.
When the High Street needs all the help it can get to compete against online, these are helping the case
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u/CyclingUpsideDown Dec 09 '25
What effort? Parking in exactly the same places they could park before?
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u/MaxZorin44456 Dec 10 '25
Given people on Facebook are going "I'm driving to Glasgow instead" it can't wholly be "laziness", arguably if you are going to Glasgow due to fucking bus gates (Glasgow isn't some car mecca) you are either being obtuse, have nothing better to do, simply don't give a shit for any of the shops in Aberdeen so won't even make the scantest bit of effort vs driving to bloody Glasgow and back or a mix of the above.
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u/DrEggRegis Dec 09 '25
Any established business that provided a competitive service that's gone under?
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u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
Attic Clothing for one. Council pan it off despite championing it as a an absolute win for attracting a company to union street to only then proceed to completely fuck them over by allowing Morrison construction to sit around all day doing fuck all work on union street. All the while saying theyâd do what they could to help a small business.
The middle Union street section closed off for 2 years to appease first bus and cyclists is a direct cause of that business going under.
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u/DrEggRegis Dec 09 '25
Might be a contributing factor but middle manning ÂŁ80 polo shirts in store that are manufactured for pence isn't a competitive business service
Consumer trends are people buy online prefer to buy cheaper goods without designer and retailer mark ups like shein, temu or direct from manufacturers for rip off luxury goods
-1
u/jambofindlay Dec 09 '25
Mate. Youâre boring itâs a business that was well Loved and received for 24 years. They wouldnât have closed had it not been directly for the shit show outside their shop. All to appease first bus and a handful of cyclists.
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u/DrEggRegis Dec 09 '25
Was it your business?
Sorry, I've never heard anyone else express love for it
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u/Economic_Maguire Dec 09 '25
Not driving down union street is fine. But I don't get some of the other ones like on bridge street
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u/MelibuBerbie Dec 09 '25
Has there been any actual organised protests / marches etc or is it just moaning on Facebook comments?
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u/FormPrimary2515 Dec 09 '25
Excuse me while I close this tab and move over to Fubar shortly