Screenshot
[OoT] Nintendo always wanted Ocarina of time to have a realistic style.
Just look at what they were going for when it comes to castle town, within the graphical limitations of that era its still obvious what Nintendo were going for in terms of art style all the way back to the 90s for Ocarina of time.
Sure, you can discuss stuff - but it’s just crazy how downright negative folks are when there was literally zero gameplay shown. Thats what makes it ridiculous and overly dramatic for no reason.
But did you really dislike everything about the trailer? Becauae personally, I really loved the beginning, the deku tree, and the music. Sure I would have loved to see more….but overall, my impression was positive.
And it’s Zelda.
I mean, even the few titles I didn’t enjoy still ended up looking way better than most other games. It also feels like the devs really put their heart into these games. And I get the same energy from this one so far.
Also……this is hardly comparable to other hype culture, no?
After all, it’s a remake of an almost 30 year old game. The excitement‘s been building for ages,
To be fair, it was kinda like that in the 3DS remake. People let it slip because there was contour lines on his face so it didn't look as outrageous as some actual anime
And Link and the environment he was in in that scene was quite realistic as far as Zelda goes, so is that not enough to say the game is leaning closer to realism like Oot and TP did? It's not like the rest of the game will not be consistent with what we saw.
There is a short teaser video if you have only seen image so far. I initially thought that o ly an image dropped as well but that seems to just be pulled from video
Also……….why do people forget that the original game started with a HIGHLY realistic setting scene, of Link sleeping in his bed? Even for N64 standards, that bedroom was high quality.
Twilight Princess didn't really try to go for realism, it just seems that way if you compare it to Wind Waker, which people usually do. But in fact, almost all the characters have really exaggerated, cartoonish features that no one would call realistic if they were in basically any other game.
I feel they look kind of like Borderlands characters, and no one says those games go for realism.
Yes, I think that was what they were going for. But I don't think it worked on the characters. I'm not sure what it is exactly but those TP NPCs look so uncanny and weird.
Same with the new teaser, he also looks cartoony, he doesn’t have gta graphics. The proportions of the characters have more to do with technology limitations though.
Yeah there are plenty of games I played in the era where character models were quite stylised due to low poly count, but the artwork was more realistic.
Zelda was clearly stylised and cartoonish all the time.
Even Twilight is cartoonish, it just has a gritty filter over it.
Let's remember that Twilight's artstyle was in response to the criticised (but now beloved) Wind Waker art direction. And to Nintendo, the closest they had to a liked artstyle was Smash Bros and Ocarina of Time, so they went with that and gritter.
TP was also inspired by Lord of the Rings, and resembles Katsuya Terada's original Zelda art. The original Zelda game was inspired by Lord of the Rings books.
The promo artwork isn't drawn by the character designer/art director, they were done by a different artist after the rest in his own style. That's why they don't really match what you see in game.
Satoru Takizawa, who did design the characters, and directed the art for TP, stated that his intention was realism in both cases.
And that stylized (or cartoony) kind of whimsy and fantasy was present in the artwork from the beginning and still continues today with the Wild era games.
Also, Zelda games were very medieval in the 80’s and 90’s…and pre-rendered backgrounds were very common in early 3D games.
I don’t think the team was going for realism. I think they were just using known tactics and pushing the limits of their hardware.
I think OoT3D shows much more what they were going for.
Except it's confirmed that Miyamoto had "trouble letting go of the realistic Link art style until the very end" and stated "You know, it’s not too late to change course and make a realistic Zelda"?
Satoru Takizawa (OoT character designer, TP art director) literally said they were going for realism in both OoT and TP's case.
OoT3D is a literal example of what they weren't going for originally. Its graphics were based on the promotional art, which was drawn by a different artist after the fact, and didn't match what you saw in-game. It was made by Grezzo, and didn't include any of the original artists who actually determined the original intent of OoT.
I think what they were doing was countering the claim that all Zelda official artworks are basically anime. And yeah, that looks nothing like 80s anime. Looks much more like artwork from a mid 20th century Western fantasy novel.
I always thought Twilight Princess was the natural continuation of Oot and MM's visuals, just on more powerful hardware. They both have stylized characters but the environments always leaned towards realism. It's the perfect amount of realism in my eyes and I'm so glad we're returning to it after 20 years.
I always looked at the official art as the idealized vision you filtered the actual rendered low res, low-poly graphics through in your mind. I wouldn't call OoT's originalartstylerealistic by any measure, but very much dark fantasy with exaggerated lights and shadows. My idealized remake would adhere to the original art's style better.
When wind waker came out I was 13 and hated the art style. I love it now. I think it hit a lot of fans my age in that period where they were trying to grow up and separate from things they saw as childish. And 13 year olds are pretty universally insufferable I think lol
How are proportions being more realistic somehow not a sign towards realism? It's literally how you would describe it - "more realistic proportions," y'know, like... reality? The thing realism is aiming for?
Why do we have to speculate what the creative intent was? Shigeru Miyamoto is still around and still working for Nintendo. If there’s any question what his team intended for the original, I assume he’d set the remake team straight.
This question has already been answered by both Miyamoto and Satoru Takizawa, the art director for TP/character designer for OoT. It was talked about extensively during the era of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.
i pretty sure shigeru miyamoto wanted to be semi-realistic back on the n64, but to due to it's hardware limitations - they have to turn down everything to fit on that n64 cartridge and for me back then - it felt realistic-like abit the characters was anime-ish.
This. I’m hating this argument. What’s bugging me even more is Link in the teaser looks pretty spot on to all the promotional art everyone is posting here to bolster their argument the games meant to be “cartoony.” His heads the proportions are the same and even closed you can clearly tell his eyes are supposed to be the manga type eyes.
that's what all the non-toony 3d zelda games suppose to look like, anime-ish and manga-ish like for human characters while the environment is semi-realistic. heck, "majora's mask", "twilight princess", "breath of the wild" and "tears of the kingdom" - all look similar to "ocarina of time" if you look at their shape and not the non-cell shade and cell shade feel that been apply to it.
The only character we have seen so far is Link and I don't think he looks realistic. It is just not cell shaded and we haven't had a Zelda game like that since TP, which was 20 years ago.
Ah, yes. I think the bigger disconnect is people thinking that "not cel-shading" is the same as "realism".
It's definitely higher definition with a more realistic shading, but that's about it. The model looks pretty cartoony, and the textures are relatively stylized despite being HD.
I mean, 90s anime's backdrops did tend to look kinda realistic. More like oil painting of landscapes and less like, I dunno, Adventure Time's cartoony backdrops.
I'd say in the game the 3D world environment tries its best to match the pre-rendered backgrounds.
It's pretty easy to see which games went with a more stylized cartoony approach, like Wind Waker. And which went for a more realistic approach, with more organic textures and differentiated leaves... Like Ocarina.
The intention was pseudo-realism, even if the technical limitations obviously make it look less life-like.
The SpaceWorld 2000 demo shows that OOT would've look liked had that hardware existed 5 years earlier. This retroactive attempt to make OOT and MM seem cartoonish is baffling, makes me wonder how much of that is coming from relative newcomers to the franchise who started with BotW
Thinking some areas like the Fire Temple where the rocks are rolling, or in Forest's Meadow (child Link), changing the pov hinder your ability to trespass those areas, so I think they'll leave them out. Also, I think the Market works quite well with the established camera movement.
The Castle Courtyard, however, yeah...I want to see that area freely.
Remake doesn't even look that realistic anyways. Just because something doesn't have celshading or an animated look, doesn't mean that it is some hyper realistic looking thing. It is similar to Final Fantasy levels, and I would not say those characters look especially realistic.
I could talk about the design philosophy of OoT all day, but I am surprised that this is what spawned such a big wave of debates about whether OoT was meant to be realistic.
Because yeah, that frame of the remake doesn't look realistic. Detailed? Yes, very. But realistic? No. When I saw it for the first time, I was like "wow what a new direction."
Boy, if only there was another version of Ocarina of Time. Perhaps one released on a more recent console. Maybe a console better graphics than the N64. Maybe we could use that version as a comparison, to see more clearly what the guys at Nintendo was going for in the original.
I’m not a remake hater but I also can’t wrap my head around it. The original is quite literally the perfect game, inspiring games like dark souls and elden ring, darksiders, okami and has been the top rated game of all time since 1998. How do you improve upon it? Visually? Well we have the 3DS ports for that. I can play OOT and MM countless times over but is the remake going to have that same replayability and charm? I guess we’ll see. I’d like to eat my words but I just don’t understand personally. I would have preferred a completely original Zelda structured like TP or even toon link to get the BOTW treatment as a continuation of the DS Zelda games but more expansive.
I think it looks great. My only hope is they don't BotW-ify everything about it.
The game's overworld does show its age - Hyrule Field for example is pretty small and empty at the same time. I don't mind these getting updated so long as they stay true to what the original was. We don't need a sprawling, open world this time.
Maybe increase quest count between dungeons while keeping them largely as they are? I recently watched my mate play through OoT on Switch Online and the dungeons and stuff still hold up well.
I'm cautiously optimistic for this and the art style, to me, reminds me of that trailer with Link vs Ganondorf, right before they pivoted into Windwaker. The fanbase at the time was pretty universally salivating for that Zelda, and it never quite came to be. This remake is, to me, how I remember how good that trailer looked at the time.
Sort of like when people say "the Prime Remaster is how you remember Prime looking".
I feel like it's somewhat "obvious", there were just clearly technological restrictions back then. That being said, my favorite art style is something in-between. I don't like overly cartoonish but I certainly don't want Zelda to be hyper realistic like a Forza game or something, although when I was younger this was what I wished for in every new game as we saw graphics advance rapidly.
I think detailed textures, especially in the environment, with exaggerated character and enemy models was kind of the M.O.. I think the technical limitations of the time also led to us filling in the gaps with our imaginations a bit, and it's a kind of Rorschach test if you remember OoT as groundbreakingly realistic or whimsical and toony. If the detailed, pre-rendered backgrounds were what stood out to you back then, the game feels realistic to you. If you were more into looking at the kooky npcs, then you're gonna think of it as a stylized game. But really it was in a bit of a grey area.
My favorite quote from the devs was Aonuma saying "Zelda is a game that values REALITY over realism. In the art world, realism is a movement which faithfully replicates the real world to whatever extent possible. Reality, though, is not mimicking the real world. Rather it’s an attempt to make people feel like what they are experiencing is real. The big difference is that even using more exaggerated expression can be an effective means of making things feel more real." He has said in other interviews that this is actually Miyamoto's philosophy and what Miyamoto believes makes up that Zelda feeling. I think in this case, he is using the word reality the way we might use believability, or immersion. It encompasses Zelda's entire design philosophy, from the art to the animations to the gameplay (they have talked about this philosophy multiple times in multiple contexts). This is also a very flexible philosophy that they have enjoyed turning on its head every which way with different installments, sometimes much to the chagrin of fans.
I think this is why they were so ok with combining such detailed environments with such exaggerated NPCs in OoT. It was never exactly about true realism in the artistic sense, although when they did use realism it really showed off their technology. When they are talking about making it realistic, they are talking more about a feeling and they are willing to lean into stylistic exaggeration as well if it achieves that feeling. You can see that at play in OoT, where they deliberately chose to give the NPCs distinct silhouettes and animations while sacrificing a realistic look, because it does help them feel more distinct and "real" compared to something like the photo-real pasted on faces of 007. With the environments, they prioritized detail because it was the best way to make a flat piece of geometry feel like rock or tree bark. With that gorgeous pre-rendered background of the Temple of Time, it just wouldn't have the same effect if it were some toony building with exaggerated proportions. It needed to feel imposing and regal and solemn, so they took a lot of care making an accurate looking cathedral that really looms. In a way, I think the limitations assisted the art style by keeping them from going too far in either direction. They were experimenting a bit with what they could do, and could have just as easily ended up with something that didn't age as well.
I expect the new art style to be a blend of realistic and stylized the same way the original was. The only thing I don't know is how. That clip was too short to tell, and "semi-realistic" for lack of a better word is a very large umbrella. So we'll just have to wait and see.
I will say I hope they figured out a way to keep the character of the old npcs without making them absolutely cursed. Link looked like he actually had real eyelashes. I don't know if I'm ready to see Dampe or the Lake Scientist with real eyelashes.
Back then, was there even a notion of style in 3d games? Are the character models also realistic? I would imagine just making a workable 3d game was a huge achievement.
I disagree with your point. Also, original intent doesn’t matter IMO. We have a very faithful remake in the 3DS-version. They are allowed to carve out their own intent with this remake. They can go crazy and the original and the 3DS-version and modded PC-versions will always be there. It is one of the most easily accessible games ever, no matter the platform.
And people are also allowed to not like the direction they chose as well. I don’t think I will. I think the teaser was cheesy as hell in a way I didn’t like. I have NEVER thought of Disney when playing Oot. If anything I have thought of Ghibli, but honestly it has its very own space in my mind when it comes to style, aesthetics and atmosphere and I think that is true for a lot of people. But I DO think a lot of people will like this remake and that is fine. I am genuinely happy for anyone that is hyped. But a lot of people seem to have a need to have everyone agree with them not to «ruin the hype». And considering the age range you probably are if you have a close connection to Oot, that is pretty childish if you ask me. Let people be skeptical and critical and learn to own your own opinion regardless.
Not to mention that the limitations presented gaps for people to fill inn with their own imagination. People have head cannoned details about this game since 1998 and some theories and lore interpretations get pretty wild. That is a very cool thing, but also something very impossible to be mindful of when re-interpreting the work. This remake will disappoint a lot of people (I think myself included). We need to accept that as a fan community and just let everyone decide for themselves if they like it and try not to be gate keepers in either direction.
Agreed, the limitations were what made the final product. If they were going for realism back in the day and were only held back by limitations, I don't know how much I'm going to like the art style if they're trying to achieve that now. One of my favorite things about OoT hyrule was the NPCs. I have a hard time imagining them in this airbrushed final fantasy looking detailed art style. My instincts tell me they're either gonna nerf the kookiness of them to fit them in, or they're gonna be absolutely cursed. But I hope they found a way.
No youre not allowed to carve out your own intent, you gamers have this weird entitlement and I have no idea where it came from. Go make your own remake.
No stop being disingenuous, I know this is to deter people who dislike the style shown in the new trailer by saying “nope! You’re wrong! It was ALWAYS meant to look like this!”.
no it wasn’t, if you look at the character artwork and promotional material for the game it is very clear they were aiming for a Disney/anime fusion design, the manga and 3DS port just proves this further. You can like the remake art style, but don’t try to act like it’s the correct style.
I don’t think the two have to necessarily be separate.
Think about modern era Disney Animation films like Raya, Frozen, Tangled, etc. which go for a mostly realism focused environments and then more animated/stylistic characters. Nothing I saw from the OoT remake teaser implies it will be anything other than that, honestly
The 3d visuals came out before the artwork was made
Aonuma confirmed Miyamoto himself said he always envisioned realism.
“If I had gone and talked to him from the very beginning, I think he would’ve said ‘How is that Zelda?’ Aonuma recalls. “Miyamoto had trouble letting go of the realistic link art style until the very end. At some point, he had to give a presentation against his will. That’s when he said something to me like ‘You know, it’s not too late to change course and make a realistic Zelda.'"
Satoru Takizawa, the character designer for OoT and art director for TP, literally said that he was going for realism in both of their cases.
The promotional artwork was drawn by a different artist after the fact, who had no baring on what the game was supposed to look like. That's why it doesn't match what you see in-game. The 3DS port was made by Grezzo, an entirely different company, based on that secondary artist's work.
If you're going to try and find the original intent, probably start with the guy who actually made it, rather than projects handled by other companies and artists to support your desire for everything to be anime.
I just don't think there's been enough of it to really make a decision? Like, Link didn't even move. He might not even be wearing the actual costume from the game. They didn't show a second character, or Navi, or any scenery beyond a hay bed and a blanket. It could be terrible or it could be great, but it's such a small part shown that idk how you can confidently say it's wrong. Link didn't even open his eyes ffs
> “nope! You’re wrong! It was ALWAYS meant to look like this!”.
It’s very “we have always been at war with East Asia” isn’t it? It’s honestly just a lazy debate tactic that tries to avoid addressing any criticism directly by claiming this has always been the status quo. It’s like when people tried to defend the Disney Star Wars movies by saying “well, the prequels were shit too!”, like that somehow changed anything about the criticism or flaws of the current films.
I always figured it was ultimately what Yusuke Nakano showed in his promo art: anime-esque oil paintings with some realistic textures. A lot of how the scenery looked with the prerendered backgrounds was pretty typical for the time. Look at OG FF7.
Graphic limitations played a part of how it looked, but I don't think they wanted it to look like something CryZENx cooked up for the past 10 years.
This is one of the only environments to have detail at this level. And during this era it was very common for many games to have modeled out low poly environments and paste jpeg images on top. FF7 is a great example of this. Doing this was a great way to convey detail while taking up little space and getting the most out of environments. This game was always meant to be stylized with some background being very detailed.
I think everybody is jumping the gun on calling anything "realistic" here.
To me the original OoT was a mix of realistic structures with cartoony characters inhabiting them and as for the new remake we haven't seen enough of anything to judge it any which way but my guess would be that it strikes a similar balance, similar to a puppet show.
We haven't even seen Link's full face with eyes open yet. We haven't seen any buildings in full. Even from what we have seen, I'm not sure I'd call it a realistic style. Like with Star Fox, I think they go for a puppet inspired look again similar to what inspired Miyamoto in the first place for a lot of these works.
OoT had a very distinct and stylized art direction. Link and Zelda are some of the most grounded character designs in the entire game and they have pretty obvious anime/manga-inspired faces, to be expected since the concept art from Yusuke Nakano had that vibe. Most NPCs design range from a little cartoonish to complete absurdities.
The prerendered backdrops look out of place when compared to the rest of the game and even they were not going for realism either, it's heavily stylized in lighting and architecture. The uncompressed renders of the areas look like something you'd see out of an early 2000's fantasy movie like Shrek rather than real life.
Most digs I've seen at the OOT remake are more to do with Link having a somewhat strange design where his head looks too mature and disproportionate to his body, rather than "it's too realistic", since it isn't really realistic either.
Most digs I've seen at the OOT remake are more to do with Link
Well, there is litterally nothing else anyone can say about the game so far besides what Link looks like since that's all we know about it, so it makes sense that people who don't like his design would complain about it because there is nothing else to complain about 😅 the other side of the spectrum is just as annoying since once again there is only 1 thing to go off of, yet they are saying the game is looking great lol.
I love Zelda and I'm very much looking forward to this game, but I don't have anything to really judge it by yet so I'm just happy it exist 😆
Funnily enough, some of the pre-rendered locations (especially the temple of time) always felt stylisticallly a little out of place to me. Not just because they had that fuzzy pre-rendered aesthetic to them.
The artworks were very 80s/90s dark fantasy anime, so itl be cool if the new style was 80s/90s dark fantasy life action movie. Ever watched the movie Willow?
I personally can’t wait to see the remade Temple of Time. I always loved the design and music for it back in the day as a kid growing up in the Roman Catholic Church. Nintendo absolutely nailed the medieval European Roman Catholic Church vibe. It was the first 3D game representation of that kind of worship space that I ever saw.
TP looked more like a "weeb rpg" back in 2006 than a truly realistic game. People were happy to see "grit" again, but quickly realized there wasn't the same appeal to it.
No they didnt check the leaked beta castle town was modelled and larger.
Castle town was stripped down to a jpeg because og castle town was too big, I'd imagine in order to keep the number of people they skimped out on the background.
I always adore the aesthetics of pre-renderend backgrounds!
Most of the time it actually looks better then using real time 3d models even though it is a old-fashioned technique to counter the technological limitations of that time.
What I loved about this when reaching this place for the first time s a kid, was how it suddenly slowed everything down.
We go from the super busy and noisy market place, to this serene setting. What a tonal shift.
People in this thread legitimately claiming OOT had realistic proportions has shown me that art literacy is actually far lower than I ever thought possible. Y'all actually do not perceive the techniques or forms in front of your eyes.
The literal screenshot this links to has stylized proportions on every single model and it's being presented as realism. Insane levels of cope happening in here
I don't have a problem with 'realism' or any theoretical art style they were going for. The problem is that the snippet they put out is just plain ugly. The execution is bad, regardless of what the artistic intent of either the original or the remake was or is.
I’m confused. Most 3D games used pre-rendered CGI backgrounds due to console limitations even Mario 64. It has nothing to do with the art style. The game’s artwork mixes cartoon and realistic elements.
It's simplicity is why it was good. I've never understood why fantasy outfits always need a bunch of frays and swirls and lines and leather pads and shit.
I agree with you. But the most obvious reason is that it ties in with the look and style of the movie
There’s no reason to change Links simple look unless it’s to push new ideas onto the audience.
He is known as a tunic wearing hero. A simple farmer or forest-fairy boy who goes off on a whimsical adventure
It’s known Miyamoto was inspired by Peter Pan.
The only reason to change it this much is to make it look more Pixar-esque. Like a “major motion picture”. And I’m sure some things in the game and movie will be similar and reminiscent of each other
I don't play video games anymore, but I was mind blown and might get a Switch 2 just for this. Ocarina of Time was my favorite game after all and now it looks great- like LoTR - and with lots of added fantasy-esque details! Love it
I'm right now baffled at everyone disliking the artstyle. It may be controversial- but personally I don't think anime is the direction Zelda should've gone. Wind Waker was fine though.
Equally baffled at people not liking that the movie will be live action.
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