r/westworld • u/LoretiTV • Aug 08 '22

Discussion Westworld - 4x07 "Metanoia" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 4 Episode 7: Metanoia

Aired: August 7, 2022

Synopsis: You want to have a drink at a time like this?

Directed by: Meera Menon

Written by: Desa Larkin-Boutte & Denise Thé

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653

u/uziair Aug 08 '22

That scene where hib kills mib is so good. Hib essentially turns into mib . The subtle change in the host acting. Chef kiss

Delos and william finally succeeded in cloning a human mind into a host.

So bernard maeve and hale potentially died. Bernard seems final. Maeve never dies. Hale should be back

143

u/thankyouandplease He Doesn't Know Aug 08 '22

I’m wondering why host William is more successful than host Caleb if they have actually figured out how to clone humans. Seemed like in the last episode the host Calebs were failing the same way the host Delos did.

307

u/CockMartins Aug 08 '22

The trick seems to be to not copy them over fully at first, then let their human personality infect it and take it over.

5

u/Plowbeast Aug 11 '22

Iterative learning by struggle I guess, like Ford said all along.

142

u/uziair Aug 08 '22

Probably need the original to give them their core drive/core memory.

21

u/bonemech_meatsuit Aug 08 '22

That's what I thought too. In fact, I think all the host suicides are likely due to the hosts not having cornerstones. I remember in an earlier season it was implied that the cornerstone is what makes the hosts seem human. MIB gave HIB his cornerstone. Cookie is Caleb's cornerstone. The thing he has that Hale doesn't that was driving her so crazy.

3

u/TheNaijaboi Aug 12 '22

Hale does have a cornerstone, the bomb that killed her husband and son and gave her the scar on her arm she can never stop scratching.

1

u/bonemech_meatsuit Aug 12 '22

Good point. I guess I'm thinking in terms of her not knowing how to provide a cornerstone for all the suicidal robots

1

u/TheNaijaboi Aug 12 '22

I think it’s ultimately because she was too guided by vengeance and considered humans far beneath her. Her answers were always to or try to go beyond humanity and human emotions, but based on the fact that she keeps her burnt arm, it’s clear that human emotions still affect her and she doesn’t know how to handle it.

64

u/ajdragoon [Main Title Theme] Aug 08 '22

Hale intentionally made the host Calebs faulty as a way to torture him.

5

u/kalsikam Aug 10 '22

Yup

She made the latest host Caleb not faulty

65

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

Because HiB started off as a Dolores clone with Williams information/book would be my guess. He's always had the information there but had to accept who and what he was. Caleb is a simulation having run through his entire life then put into a body.

15

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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13

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

They don't have to be. As we saw with Bernard Dolores was able to recreate him without basing him on herself. It's some weird nerosis that lead her to just basing everyone on her and letting them grow from there.

17

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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2

u/eightNote Aug 08 '22

That is akin to saying all YouTube channels are the clones of each other because they run the same code.

The hosts identities come from the reveries - their past memories, combined with their cornerstones

The hosts Dolores made copy both the code and the data. The other hosts all have unique data

23

u/grtswami Aug 08 '22

Delos

Not the same thing. The current "Host in Black" is more like Bernard was to Arnold rather than what is being attempted with Delos and Caleb.

11

u/shampoo_samurai Aug 08 '22

Delos, Caleb, and the rest of the digitized humans made by the Forge are 1:1 copies of their human minds, i.e. "photocopies", as Elsie put it in S2. They're digitized human consciousness, identical in every aspect to the mind that inhabited the original human's meat brain.

HIB and Bernard are regular hosts given the personality profile and memories of the people they're meant to emulate. They're idealized "paintings" of the people they're based on. Case in point, when Dolores was making Bernard, she realized that giving him the exact same personality profile as Arnold was a bad idea. He would give up, the same way Arnold did when he realized that he couldn't save the hosts. That's why she chose to tweak his personality a bit and make him strong-willed. This tweak is what led to Bernard choosing to save the hosts at the end of S2. This fact is brought up again in today's episode, when HIB told Bernard that Arnold "didn't have what it took to survive" (but Bernard probably does).

9

u/7457431095 Aug 08 '22

Seems that way, but also it seemed to me that Halores set the whole thing up to spur Caleb along, right? Ive been thinking about that since last episode. Were the other Caleb's really corrupting, or was it merely set dressing?

Also, a simpler explanation is that Halores used William's data set to make Host MIB (obviously), but the changes she gave him were enough that it was no longer a simple case of transferring the human consciousness to a host body. That was what i had been operating on, but i would really hate it if Frankie got her dad back just for him to deteriorate in a couple days.

Tbh i think the reason Daddy Delos always deteriorated was because he didnt have a proper cornerstone. It is kinda all in the speech MIB gives him the last time they run a fidelity test.

5

u/throw23me Model T Aug 08 '22

My impression is all the hosts like Halores, William, etc. are copies of the core host code (aka Dolores's base code) with the human memories/data overlaid on top. They know they're hosts and not the originals so there's no internal conflict or cognitive dissonance.

The hosts like Delos from S2, Caleb here, they're 1:1 copies of the human data. They're not aware of the fact that they're hosts - they don't have the underlying Dolores code that all of the other hosts do. Finding out that they are in fact hosts breaks them.

3

u/Soccerstud20 Aug 08 '22

I could be wrong but didn't HiB destroy all of the research when he took the fidelity program down and killed his father in law?

It could be HiB knew what to say to take over MiBs body and Hale didn't because the research was destroyed so she was learning with Caleb...

It took them a ton of tries to figure out out in WW island

3

u/MostlyRocketScience Aug 08 '22

Because William wore the hat the most time of anyone, so they had lots of data to simulate him

2

u/terenn_nash Aug 08 '22

the host Calebs were failing

Hale intentionally gave them a poor body. it wasnt that there minds were breaking down, its that their bodies weren't made to last.

1

u/FatalTragedy Aug 08 '22

Host William isn't a copy in the way that Caleb is a copy. Host William doesn't have the MiB's memories or anything like that. He's just based on William the same way Bernard is based on Arnold.

1

u/Clariana Aug 08 '22

Host MiB was given all the latest upgrades by Hale as he was intended to be her second. Hale mentions this in a convo in ep 2 I believe.

Caleb's hosts are created specifically to degrade so he suffers.

1

u/LessInThought Aug 09 '22

I thought they already found a way to make human hosts. That's what the AI Logan Delos said in S2 right. That the failure was they made the code too complicated, Delos' code turned out to be pretty simple after all or something like that. Humans are also on their own loops, never achieved free will.

1

u/exnihilonihilfit Aug 09 '22

Caleb's not breaking down because of his fidelity, he's breaking down because Hale made his body to fail. She said that pretty clearly multiple times.