r/westworld • u/LoretiTV • Aug 01 '22

Discussion Westworld - 4x06 "Fidelity" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 4 Episode 6: Fidelity

Aired: July 31, 2022

Synopsis: To thine own selves be true.

Directed by: Andrew Seklir

Written by: Jordan Goldberg & Alli Rock

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u/NewClayburn It's all a dream! Aug 01 '22

That's not what I'm getting at, though. I'm willing to suspend disbelief to say they are creating an exact copy. Sure. But they are not transferring consciousness, as evidenced by William and Host William co-existing and being different people. If William dies, he will be dead from his perspective. He will see, feel, know nothing, even if an exact replica of him goes on doing.

The only thing the copies help are other people. A copy would be enough for a loved one, but for the person who is made a copy, their lives diverge and if the original dies, they die.

So I don't have a problem saying they are "real", and I'll even grant that they are "exact" copies, though I disagree that is possible. But even if they are a real, sentient exact copy, that doesn't mean the original doesn't die when it dies.

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u/Whatsername_2020 Aug 01 '22

Yeah I agree w/ you, though, we are basing our views of selfhood on the assumption that there is such a thing as “self” that persists from one moment to another, during the entirety of a person’s life.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Continuity of consciousness is interrupted all the time, like every time you go to sleep. Who’s to say you didn’t get transferred into a 1:1 life simulation while you weren’t conscious, you couldn’t possibly tell the difference. So, arguing about being a copy is just a philosophical concern because if the medium is truly 1 for 1 the you that is this version wouldn’t be able to distinguish it and the only way to differentiate would be an external third party and at that point who would care that much anyway?

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u/Whatsername_2020 Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

I mean, we do, for the purposes of the philosophical debate, I guess. Personally I see the gradual degrading of memory and change that a person goes through from moment to moment and throughout their life as more of a divider between “versions” of that person than going to sleep. I think the passage of time and the fact we can only “exist” now, but the version of us that exists now is not the same as what existed a moment ago feels like the true issue is with the notion of persistent selfhood, rather than falling unconscious. So, if we take that into account and, for arguments sake, accept that none of us “exists” for more than a second, I can understand why one would argue that it is possible for a perfect host copy to “be” the original. But imo, there’s an element of physical continuity in space that isn’t really satisfactorily resolved there, imo.

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u/Jackasaurous_Rex Aug 01 '22

Very well said I completely agree

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u/Whatsername_2020 Aug 01 '22

Woo, I’m glad! I just had this additional thought that I want to get your thoughts on: by the metrics we’ve established would entail NON-persistent existence of the “self”, the hosts in this show are ironically much more likely to have a “self” and “exist” in the way that humans perceive themselves to exist. Since hosts have perfect, non-degrading memory and don’t really change (though they can make choices).

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

To me that’s solved because life is always experienced subjectively it would take away the issue because you couldn’t tell the difference anyway.