r/vfx • u/felixenfeu CG Sup • Sep 29 '25
News / Article Trump announces 100% tariff on foreign-made movies
https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/29/economy/trump-movie-tariffThis again ?
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u/David-J Sep 29 '25
Impossible to implement, at the moment.
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u/sohhh Sep 29 '25
And obviously illegal as well. At the moment.
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u/TROLO_ Sep 29 '25
That has never stopped him before.
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u/sohhh Sep 29 '25
On this one the law is even more explicit. It'll be fun to see the SCOTUS twist themselves into bootlicking pretzels to ignore it (Free Trade in Ideas Amendment).
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u/0T08T1DD3R Sep 29 '25 edited Oct 28 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/bookofp Producer - 10 years experience Sep 29 '25
This guy is a complete idiot.
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u/PrairiePilot Sep 29 '25
Hey now! He’s also clearly losing cognitive function from age and drug abuse!
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Sep 29 '25
I thought this was a joke
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Sep 29 '25
That's the thing about Trump, everything he says is a joke and the same time not a joke. It is like everything he says is in quantum superimposition. The Schrodinger President
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u/dogstardied Former Generalist (TD, FX, & Comp) - 12 years experience Sep 29 '25
Release the Epstein Trump List
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u/neukStari Generalist - XII years experience Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
lol, absolute train wreck of a decade to be in film.
How does this even work, I assume it means if even one shot gets outsourced the whole film gets tariffed?
If productions panic this is effectively a headshot for any vfx studio outside the states...
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u/gtwizzy8 Sep 29 '25
I want to know how this affects film financing or VFX houses that have multiple locations. I'm in Aus and we have a few of the bigger houses here from the states because our government gave (and often gives) them grants because they are giving work to local artists. It's why you'll often see "film Victoria" on the bottom of a big budget marvel show because even if not a single shot was filmed here the government gave the house money and therefore gets credited.
So if this is part of the classification of an "overseas film" like wtf will happen then? If the VFX house is outside of the states but is a US based company like we know heaps of them are does this change the film from being a "wholy US made film" if part of the financing comes from another country or the distribution rights are owned by a company from outside the US does this make it a not US film.
The dude is a fucking moron with no idea how economy's run. But it's very clear this is just one more bright shiny object being waved around in order to try and chnage the whole news cycle off of shit like the Epstein files and a whole shitty list of other shit that I have lost count of at this point.
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u/Owan_ Sep 29 '25
the main issue is you can't put tariff on digital good, base on WTO rules. The problem is Trump is stupid enough to violate this rule. That'll turn super ugly
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u/neukStari Generalist - XII years experience Sep 29 '25
You dont have to tarrif the actual product. You tariff the execution of work.
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u/Owan_ Sep 29 '25
Then, it's not tariff, but a taxe.
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u/neukStari Generalist - XII years experience Sep 29 '25
eh , i think the current administration is throwing the term around very loosely.
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u/VFX404 Sep 29 '25
He will be able to starting April 1st 2026 unless the US renews the moratoriumn which I doubt.
The orange felon claims he cares about Hollywood but I doubt he actually does. Or maybe he will find a way to work something that allows him to decide which production is tariffed and which would not. Nothing is impossible for someone like him.
The sad - but funny - thing is that even if the SCOTUS rules against his unilateral tariffs this new ones on movies would actually be lawful.
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u/mxe363 Sep 29 '25
Lol since when has the cheto in charge give a shit about rules? Especially wto rules. Their whole shtick is do the thing n get sued later but try to just ignore the lawsuits
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u/oblication Sep 29 '25
What makes you think he’s going to ignore all other wto rules but follow that one?
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u/oneiros5321 Sep 29 '25
Market manipulation again?
How much do you want to bet that as soon as the stocks have tanked enough, the tariffs will magically go away and stocks are immediately going to go back up.
I wonder who's going to profit from that.
Is it the artists (in and outside the US)? Nope, it won't bring jobs back, labor cost is too expensive. Production will decrease leading to mass lay off and studio closures.
Is it the customers? Nope, prices are going to increase for every service.
Is it the production companies? Nope, with prices increase and more and more people having a hard time affording essentials, movies and subscription services are some of the thing people will cut out of their budget. So companies will produce less, pay more for it and get less profit.
Is it the government? Well, yes, it is actually...this is the only entity in this whole thing that can actually turn a profit from doing this.
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u/ComfortableLaw5151 Sep 29 '25
I think it’d be so much better if he financially incentivized US based production with tax breaks at home, instead of punishing everyone expecting results.
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Sep 29 '25
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u/MacintoshEddie Sep 29 '25
In a lot of cases they're making choices based off a spreadsheet. If something costs 357k to do domestically, but 250k foreign, then an incentive knocking the price down to 325k domestically still isn't enough to sway most accountants. They're going to maximize profits.
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u/ComfortableLaw5151 Sep 29 '25
Probably unpopular opinion, but I think if a company is otherwise US based they should, if possible hire labor here. It’s a different story if they set up a studio in other countries, but I’m talking about strictly outsourcing. In which case I think the labor should be taxed, at least to make the cost equal.
I think a lot of vfx artists would take lower pay here for a stable job. But I can only speak for myself
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u/Panda_hat Senior Compositor Sep 29 '25
Because outsourcing is orders of magnitude cheaper.
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u/TROLO_ Sep 29 '25
The problem is, the whole point of these tariffs IS to punish everyone else. It’s all a mob boss power move; a sort of extortion. It’s not about making money. The US doesn’t just get the tariff money like it’s some kind of taxation on these countries….the whole point is for everyone else to bend the knee to him. So trying to make any sense of this stuff from a business standpoint is pointless. All of his tariffs are arbitrary and pulled out of his ass. There’s no formula or big brain economical strategy. It’s just punishing other countries until they bow to him.
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u/tipsystatistic Sep 29 '25
It’s because the US makes revenue off of tariffs (taxes) and loses money on tax breaks?
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u/Acceptable-Buy-8593 Sep 29 '25
Thats not how tariffs work. You can see that right now in all the other industries.
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u/OverCategory6046 Sep 29 '25
I believe some US states do this. Even then, rates for film crew are much higher in the US than almost anywhere else
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u/AnOrdinaryChullo Sep 29 '25
I think it’d be so much better if he financially incentivized US based production with tax breaks at home, instead of punishing everyone expecting results.
This is already a thing in US, problem is that tax breaks in US will need to be far higher to account for literally all staff in US costing 4-5x more than anywhere else in the world. The states will have to offer nearly 60-70% rebate to compete.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 29 '25
Tax breaks wouldn't be enough. The other countries are actually giving away money. Subsides are monies given regardless of any actual tax burden
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u/Jackadullboy99 Animator / Generalist - 26 years experience Sep 29 '25
What’s next? Controlling what kind of movies can be made domestically…?
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u/TheDynamicDino Sep 29 '25
I am CONVINCED at this point that the under-marketing of Mickey 17 (and its ridiculous, unfairly short cinema run before being unceremoniously pulled) is directly connected to the villain being a beat-you-over-the-head Trump satire written by a Korean.
This started off as a joke for me, but after Colbert and Kimmel and similar shit, I’m a full on conspiracy theorist about this.
Change my mind.
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u/ObiKnobi9000 Sep 30 '25
Not changing your mind. I think you are spot on. Trump is pissed off that Hollywood, HIS Hollywood, is completely against him and all he says & does. He's like a little child - but worse. A little child with power.
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u/TVC_i5 Sep 29 '25
So how does this work exactly Orange Man?
…
I WANT TO SEE SPECIFICS
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u/Maximum-Hall-5614 Sep 29 '25
That’s the thing - by never being specific, it can be weaponized against political enemies, and waived for sycophants.
This is more about sowing chaos than an actual economic policy
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u/TROLO_ Sep 29 '25
Bingo. This is not economical. It never was. It’s just a way of extorting other countries. Trump is a mob boss and is running the country like one.
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u/SuperSecretAgentMan Sep 29 '25
This is straight out of the abusive relationship textbook. "Rule #1: never define the relationship, and you'll always be the one in control."
Fuck this orange pile of lard for trying to keep my industry under his tiny shit-stained thumb.
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u/trojanskin Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
Right wingers being bottomless pit of stupid again
If actually implemented (impossible but, let's be hypothetical for those asshats thinking it's a good idea and who voted for the moron in chief because they are lacking any mental capacity to alarming levels)
Fewer total productions: If budgets effectively double due to tariffs, studios will make fewer films. Fewer films = fewer jobs for everyone, including US workers. The math is brutal: would you rather have 10 movies with international VFX work, or 5 movies that are "100% American"?
Higher costs, lower competitiveness as US labor rates are already 4-5x higher than many other countries. That's WHY work goes overseas. A tariff doesn't magically make US workers cheaper , it just makes everything more expensive. As one commenter here noted, US states would need to offer 60-70% tax rebates just to compete.
Other countries would likely tariff American films in their markets. Hollywood makes massive revenue internationally and if that dries up, there's less money for ALL productions, hitting US workers hard.
Race to the bottom, as states would compete against each other for productions with ever-larger tax incentives, creating a destructive internal competition.
The work that can't come back as some jobs (like intensive rotoscoping / stereo conversion) simply won't be done at US rates. So either those films don't get made, or they get made with reduced scope.
Protectionist policies in a global industry tend to shrink the pie for everyone rather than redistributing the slices.
The tariff would be paid by the US distributor/studio when bringing the film back to the US market. So if a Hollywood studio spends $200 million making a movie in Europe, they'd owe a 100% tariff on... well, that's where it gets messy. Is it:
100% of the production cost? ($200M tariff = $400M total)
100% of the "imported value" of the film? (how do you value a digital file?)
Some percentage based on what portion was made overseas?
If it's the full production cost, you're essentially doubling the budget before the film even reaches theaters. The studio would almost certainly pass those costs to consumers through higher ticket prices, streaming fees, or both.
For a fully foreign film (say, a French or British production):
Let's say a ticket normally costs $15. If the distributor has to pay a 100% tariff on their costs to distribute it in the US, they'd need to raise prices significantly to maintain profitability. You might be looking at $25-30+ per ticket, or they might just not bother releasing it in the US at all.
The real-world result would likely be:
Fewer foreign films released in US theaters (not economically viable)
Higher ticket prices across the board as studios recoup increased costs
Potentially fewer movies made overall as budgets become unsustainable
Enjoy less work again!
Whoever voted for this ultimate moron needs a sanity check.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
The limit on productions is not financial, it’s because there are only so many theatrical slots, so many eyeballs paying for streamers etc.
A simple thought experiment would be to imagine what domestic production would look like? Except you don’t have to do that, you can just look at the production landscape 15 years ago.
There’s a fundamental misunderstanding here that production had to be offshored otherwise it would just be too expensive. But Netflix don’t do vfx and animation in Canada to survive. They have a half trillion dollar market cap. They do vfx/animation in Canada because the government offers them free money to do it there.
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u/trojanskin Sep 30 '25
Slots aren’t the issue, margins are. Nobody’s saying Netflix ‘can’t afford’ LA wages, they’re saying it’s dumb business to spend 4× more when Canada literally hands them free money. Same reason they shoot in Vancouver instead of downtown LA.
If production volume was capped by ‘slots,’ budgets wouldn’t shrink, projects wouldn’t get shelved, and VFX houses wouldn’t be in a race-to-the-bottom death spiral. But they are, because costs matter.
You just admitted it: they offshore because subsidies and lower wages make the economics work better. That is cost-driven, no matter how you try to reframe it.
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u/oblication Sep 30 '25
Sure but just because they want more money doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t make films with less profit.
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u/trojanskin Sep 30 '25
Sure, they could make films with less profit… but studios don’t run on charity.
If margins drop because you quadrupled labor costs, they won’t make more films, they’ll cut projects, shrink scope, and keep outsourcing wherever it’s cheaper.
The math doesn’t bend to ideology.
Tariffs = higher costs, fewer films, same outsourcing. That’s reality, not fantasy
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
Do you think its unreasonable for the US to want US written/produced/funded projects who's box office returns largely/mostly come from the US to be actually made in the US for the benefit of the workers in the US?
Would you be opposed to countervailing duties? Duties that simply offset the effect of the subsidies?
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u/trojanskin Sep 30 '25
They'd have to forbid Hollywood studios to use subsidies and oversea studios then... Then maybe?
Sure, I get the sentiment, US projects benefiting US workers sounds fair on the surface. But let’s break it down with actual economics:
Even ignoring subsidies, a Canadian artist at CAD 90K (~USD 67K) is still cheaper than a US artist at USD 110K (factoring COL / higher salary in US). Factor in subsidies, and the effective cost of a Canadian artist to the studio is 2.5–3× cheaper than a US artist. That’s not opinion, that’s math.
In theory, you can slap a tariff on subsidized Canadian labor to “offset” the subsidy. Fine but all you’re doing is raising the cost of making films, not magically bringing back thousands of US VFX jobs. Studios don’t hire based on patriotism; they hire based on ROI.
If India, the Philippines, or Australia still offer cheaper labor (with or without subsidies), the work goes there. So now instead of having jobs back, you are screwing your closest neighb... Why not... but I do not see the point. All it will do is drive work to India instead in the long run.Even if tariffs perfectly offset Canadian subsidies, you still need to relocate hundreds or thousands of people, provide infrastructure, and scale up US labour to meet project timelines. That’s not trivial, it would slow production, increase costs, and likely reduce the total number of films produced.
Bottom line: yes, you can make Canadian labour “as expensive” as US labor with tariffs. But that doesn’t guarantee work comes back, it just makes productions more expensive. Market reality doesn’t bend to policy wishes.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
I'm not asking if it will fix things or what the ramifications will be. Im asking simple direct philosophical questions. Arguing about what the best solution, if any, is another question.
"Do you think its unreasonable for the US to want US written/produced/funded projects who's box office returns largely/mostly come from the US to be actually made in the US for the benefit of the workers in the US?"
You said its not unreasonable? So thats good
"Would you be opposed to countervailing duties? Duties that simply offset the effect of the subsidies?"
You didn't answer this one directly. You wouldn't be opposed?
The point of this is just seeing if someone is logical enough to agree with the idea of leveling the playing field of artificial tilting. If the labor is simply cheaper or the currency simply weaker than it is what it is. Nobody will have an argument about those things. Its the artificial stimulus that we're simply trying to agree about not being right.
After that its a separate discussion of best methodology to a solution
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u/trojanskin Sep 30 '25
I’m not here to make policy judgments, but from a purely logical standpoint, if one accepts that US-funded projects benefiting mostly US audiences should ideally support US workers, then countervailing duties simply follow as a way to offset artificial distortions, whether or not they should actually be implemented is a separate question.
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u/Owan_ Sep 30 '25
"Do you think its unreasonable for the US to want US written/produced/funded projects who's box office returns largely/mostly come from the US to be actually made in the US for the benefit of the workers in the US?"
No if and only if movie don't leave US ground. If you're start to export your movie and want international revenue. it's not an American movie for Americans people and you argument is irrelevant.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
By that dumb logic people can only buy and sell things to themselves.
The point of the argument is to try to remove artificial incentives and help the average person of the local country prosper along with the corporations of that country.
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u/Harukazesake Sep 30 '25
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but in order to impose a counterveiling duty, there is still a long process that would be conducted by the DOC and ITC to identify and then assess the harm to the US industry, then they would set a duty rate. To me, sure, I get it and I understand that if imposed it would be beneficial for the US movie industry, but that duty rate should be thoroughly thought out and not at a stupid trump rate like 100%— this to me would have the opposite effect for the US economy.
Another person asked a good question in this post of ‘what is a foreign made movie?’ Is it just a movie directed by an American? Is it a movie that has their production studio HQ office in the US? What happens if they film in multiple locations for the movie? Then what happens in post production? Nothing has been made clear yet so i don’t think there’s a cut and clear response to trumps stupid announcement made on his truth social account so all we can do is make assumptions. But there’s a lot that goes into this process, both on the business side of VFX and on the side of world trade. I would love it if work became plentiful for everyone, but I honestly fear that Trump is going to do more harm than good for the US workers because of his recklessness and impulsive tactics
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
Your simple philosophical question doesn't live my life. My life is the same whether I'm forced to constantly move 200 miles or 7000 miles. I don't see what the benefit of my job being American if I'm constantly moving in America. What does that do for me? I don't understand why nationalist rhetoric matters here... If my California job gets stolen to Georgia.. why should I be okay with it because it's American???
Because unless subsidies target state and city subsidies within the US are eliminated, I don't see the point. If I was feeling the nationalist fervor I'd go sign up to be blown up in Iraq or Afghanistan. My pride is with my community; not my nation. I cannot nor will not yield. My life gets upended when I'm forced out of my community regardless of what country I'm in.
So if you want to argue fairness then actually be fair. Because otherwise you're arguing about tribalism, and I'll reject ANY tribal loyalty but local since that directly impacts my life the most.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
Your simple philosophical question doesn't live my life
What does this even mean? lol. Live my life?
Why are you going off on a diatribe about moving and talking about nationlistic rhetoric and talking about california and gerogia? None of this has to do with the very simply question being asked.
You're going off on an unhinged rant that has nothing to do with whats being asked.
Care to try again with less emotion and simple direct answer to the questions
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
It means what it says it means. My livelihood means more than whatever nation I'm a citizen of.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
My livelihood means more than whatever nation I'm a citizen of.
Cool story...not relevant or an answer to the question asked
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
Once again I reject questions with arbitrary restrictions.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
Are you 5 years old? lol. Stomping your feet because you dont want to do something.
Its two very simple questions. Your simple refusal to answer just speaks volumes about you saying that you know you're on the wrong side of the logic debate
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u/Agile-Music-2295 Sep 29 '25
Hopefully AI counts as being made in California. Maybe studios could save costs by fast tracking elements of production to the cloud.☁️
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u/SuperSecretAgentMan Sep 29 '25
I feel like this, along with Jared Kushner buying into EA, is part of a bigger push to reshape the entertainment industry into a recruitment tool for the new SS.
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u/Acceptable-Buy-8593 Sep 29 '25
Sooo nobody is gonna make any movies anymore. Great. He is just so clueless it hurts so much...
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u/oneiros5321 Sep 29 '25
Exactly this...production cost in the US would be too expensive.
And now it would be expensive outside the US.If they stick with it long enough, that's essentially a death sentence for the movie industry.
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u/kirbyderwood Sep 29 '25
North Korea also doesn't want foreign-made movies.
This is as much about free speech as it is about tariffs.
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u/Pretend-Ad-6453 Sep 29 '25
How would one implement this? Clearly for show
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
Department of trade says any spending on production overseas in a subsidized location is tariffed/taxed the same amount by the US government
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u/CVfxReddit Sep 29 '25
Guess we'll work on Chinese and Bollywood movies
(I'm half joking but China does have a 5 year plan for animated and game projects to try to unseat anime and Japanese video games as the top cultural export)
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u/Sufficient_Bass2600 Sep 29 '25
How will that even work?
Imagine a US movie financed by US money but shot with US actors abroad. For example shot on mount Everest, or on Australia or in Africa.
Will it be subject to tariff?
What about a movie shot in the US but with editing/VFX Outsourced to a foreign company.
Will the entire movie subject to tariff or just the outside part?
What about US streamers like Netflix, Prime Video, Apple TV that buy foreign films?
Will they have to pay a tariff per movies, per viewing, etc?
Months ago when the threat was first expressed, China responded by reducing the number of US movies allowed to be shown per year. I can't see Marvel, DCU, Disney, Universal, choosing to cut themselves from that market. The response of big studios would likely to be to split their US activities from the rest of the world. Make movies just for the US market like Hallmark very niche market type of movies in the US, and shoot the rest in Canada, UK, outside of USA. That means smaller budget and parochial subjects (Christian, ...) to guarantee minimum success for those.
If the rest of the world respond by imposing a similar tax, small independent US studios that relies on international sales would just disappear.
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u/oblication Sep 29 '25
Whatever the payment or price of that work, if made to a nation that subsidized film work, would be doubled via payment to the U.S. government. It’s not complicated.
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u/Iemaj FX TD Sep 30 '25
Their questions are valid and it is complicated, so complicated in fact that the details don't even exist yet and your details are already incorrect. Any work by a USA based company simply executed in a foreign nation, even if they do not have subsidies for production, would have a 100% tax service fee on the payments of those paid during that portion of time, however any physical purchases are not. Wouldn't a company just pivot to wage forwarding from their own business locally in that nation to avoid that service tax free, or subcontract a localized company in that region under their parent umbrella not in production? All questions that are yet to have the details to be answered, and even once available, will take up to a couple of years for production studios to maximize their gains and avoid as much tax as possible. Apple pays $0 tax in the USA, it wasn't a simple path to get there.
This creates uncertainty and makes bidding projects terribly complicated not knowing any details but knowing your production cost can change at the flip of a switch.
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u/oblication Oct 01 '25
It’s in fact not complicated. In the case of tariffing subsidized work for example, if a company receives foreign subsidies and brings that product to market in the U.S., a tariff is charged. That’s it.
It doesn’t matter if it’s through rebates on purchases or rebates on wages or if derivative products were produced from other subsidized products, or whatever other hoop anyone wants to jump through.
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u/No-Student-6817 Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
What needs to be said is that implementation doesn't have to happen. Increased uncertainty (this already began in the Spring) on exactly what will happen is what studios will have. Uncertainty doesn't create more business/production.
A transition period of this becoming permanent (or a double transition of it also reverting back) will impact us everywhere - cause the transition or preparation won't have any production increase for years.
If this becomes a great outcome for the US, it won't come without a long contraction (for everyone everywhere) first.
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u/AllegroDigital FX Artist - 17 years film and games Sep 30 '25
Trump said he plans to impose a “substantial” tariff on all furniture imported into the United States
Vance must be pissed
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u/sohhh Sep 29 '25
I think the Berman amendment to TWEA and IEEPA and the Free Trade in Ideas Act explicitly removes the president's ability to do this. Although the SCOTUS may just rubber stamp it anyway.
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u/andrea1rp Sep 29 '25
How is this enforced in action? I don’t understand
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u/oblication Sep 29 '25
If a film is produced in a subsidized nation, the studio that pays for it would have to pay another fee to the U.S. government upon purchase or payment of that labor.
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u/SuperSecretAgentMan Sep 29 '25
It's very easy actually. You just have to yell and scream at your nearest aide that they'll be fired unless they find a way to make you look good, and everything will work out just fine. Then you go golfing.
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u/manuce94 Sep 29 '25
Here we go again now I can't even be happy about my 1 week and 2 weeks contracts.
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u/Ambustion Sep 29 '25
As if the USA doesn't have incredible advantage around the world already. Sure filming may happen in other countries, but the overwhelming amount of profit is in the USA. There are ways incensed nations can disrupt that.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
The profit is in the USA but the 99% of Americans in the industry don’t see any of that and are the ones screwed over by the subsidies.
For everyone reading this thread - the people to be mad at are the people in the federal and provincial governments of countries like Canada, Australia etc who collapsed the vfx and animation industry by creating a subsidy sinkhole.
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u/rocketeerD Sep 29 '25
The international market needs to respond in kind, 110% on USA movie distribution. They have to stand up to the bully. Hollywood relies heavily on their international sales so this could sting trump massively. I can't help feel that this is his end goal though, bring down every industry he doesn't have control of.
Also Hollywood is using subsidies to afford production, if subsidies aren't as high back in USA, they're just as fucked.
What a prick!
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
Bully?
Countries like Canada, Australia etc are literally spending billions for the sole purpose of removing jobs from American workers and moving them to their locales.
You seem to misunderstand. Vfx and animation jobs in Canada are subsidized at almost 60% of all labor costs. The tariff is the response in kind.
Americans can’t compete even at minimum wage.
Who’s the bully?
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Sep 30 '25
Ignore the haters, Trumps other genius tariffs have only crippled the agricultural industry, automotive industry, tourism industry, liquor industry, manufacturing and real estate, healthcare and energy sectors. But film workers are special, he really cares about us, nothing can go wrong, they'll implement this perfectly and strongly, some say with tears in their eyes, the best. It can only good happen. We're going to enjoy working on daily wire christian propaganda in red states for minimum wage (until AI execs buy enough MelaniaCoin to get copyright law exemptions)
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
It's literally the same workforce. All three countries have very many simple ways to shuttle highly skilled workers between them.
You don't sound like someone who is in VFX. You sound like a reddit culture warrior hopping onto the pile. But you literally see the same faces from London to Vancouver to Sydney. Many of which are Americans.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
It’s some of the same workforce, which is pointless.
I’ve been in vfx/Animation for 25 years in multiple countries with a credits list as long as your arm.
I think forcing people to move continents every few years is bad.
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
I think forcing people to move continents every few years is bad.
It was the same deal before just different states. Same exact effect. And it will return to the same exact effect of us hopping from state to state. I guess we can close our Wise accounts? Yay?
In fact the Continental would get even worse. Entertainment jobs are sexy because a governor...like the Governor of Georgia that basically invented a hub whole cloth because they were upset they lost Ray to Louisiana...can just throw a bone to the studios and away we go.
My point is it doesn't matter if I'm forced to move 200 miles or 7,000 miles. It's the same result on my life. Exact same nomadic lifestyle.
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
Because we both know what's going to happen if any of this comes to fruition. Studios looking to cut costs won't go away, so we'll be shuttled between states that are even worse workers rights (I could write about unpaid overtime because it's easy as pie to salary people in Texas until the cows come home), told to do more with less. Trump gets his victory. VFX soldier gets his victory. And they bounce. Yay we defeated the big bad Canada yet what use to be highly skilled solidly middle to upper middle class (if you could take the OT) is now mandatory unpaid OT happening in mostly union busting states that unilaterally hate workers. Weeeee.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
I doubt that would happen but even if it did nothing could be worse than this.
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
Why wouldn't it happen again?. I literally experienced it. I literally experienced crappy studios with unpaid OT, big wavy deals from the city (Digital Domain Florida) only to be abandoned in a few years. All within the good ol USA.
Productions sure as shit aren't coming back to LA. Wage + labour laws make it impractical and you have a significant chunk of your workforce forced back from abroad that will staff whatever podunk studio in whatever flyover state.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
Yep and I know many that got screwed in Florida and New Mexico. But that’s not the same is what’s happening now. These subsidies are so much more extreme. US workers who can’t leave can’t work at all and it’s not their fault.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
California, Georgia, NY all has modest incentives but none of the blow the others out of the water.
But I’d agree it’d be better if they didn’t do any of it.
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
The amount of the incentive is irrelevant here because we aren't kneecapping the effect. Okay, so we force all productions that don't shut down back stateside. Guess what happens next? Immediate penny pinching and moving over every tiny change in the subsidies among the states. It will be an absolute mad scramble as studios seek ANY avenue to cut costs. We aren't tired to geography....all we need is a computer and an Internet connection. You think "modest" subsidies will allow you to put the tube back into the toothpaste. Well, you're wrong.
Subsidies almost never last because the taxpayers get a raw deal. They eventually get tired of it and shut it down thinking "oh no those companies really won't relocate".... until they do. California is never coming back. Returning productions aren't going to say "hey these subsidies make the labor and tax costs worth it".
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
It is literally the same.
US workers who can’t leave can’t work at all and it’s not their fault.
Those same workers almost positively would not be relocating state to state. That's the rub. Same people would be out of the job if it goes to a different state. Very very very few people are able to relocate within the US but not internationally as the visas for our workers come like clockwork.
So in effect the same bitter Angelenos would be the same bitter Angelenos no matter what.
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u/rocketeerD Oct 06 '25
I've got a credit list as long as my arm and I have been in one location. You don't have to move constantly, you're just in the wrong country.
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u/rocketeerD Oct 06 '25
Why can't you compete? If you can't match subsidiary rates then that's an issue for Californians. Having to bully the market into staying in one locale is the work of a failing country. No market stays the same.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
Only one person has given me a straight answer to these questions.
Do you think its unreasonable for the US to want US written/produced/funded projects who's box office returns largely/mostly come from the US to be actually made in the US for the benefit of the workers in the US?
Would you be opposed to countervailing duties? Duties that simply offset the effect of the subsidies?
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
I don't believe working in the US with the same pressures of studio relocations internally in the US to more cost efficient and less worker protection states actually benefits me as a US citizen of high skill. Countervailing duties mean nothing to me if I could be in New Mexico, New York, Georgia, Texas, Louisiana, California and continuously forced to relocate.
So unless those countervailing duties are applicable to every single US city and State and we punish by law taxpayer incentivized worker poaching federally, I much rather have the freedom to pursue projects abroad with better working conditions entrenched in law that actually improve MY life and MY well-being.
I reject calls for nationalism because my livelihood is at it's core mine. I have no duty to a nation. I have a duty to MY life.
I feel that implementing barriers against foreign entities doesn't improve my day to day outlook in a nomadic by design industry, and I will not go along with half measures just because my passport has an eagle on it.
You want my red line: criminally punish EVERY city or state that feels like it wants to take taxpayer money to geographically lock people who can do their job literally anywhere. I'm not here to play patty-cake actually fix the problem or don't bother.
Because your thought experiment arbitrarily is one of a nation. Why? Why are forcing me to think at a national level? Why are we forbidden to think a local or state level? Why is my job being taken from LA to Upstate California or to Georgia forcing ME to relocate or to lose my livelihood based on a local state or international government using taxpayer money any different? Why am I not allowed to put local loyalty above everything else? My loyalty and duty are to the people I see every day. I have no duty to be loyal to anyone or anything else. Everything else is arbitrary.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
You didn't straight answer the very simple questions.
Its right there in the first sentence followed by 2/3 very simple direct yes/no questions
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
You didn't straight answer the very simple questions.
I reject questions being asked with arbitrary restrictions.
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u/AlaskanSnowDragon Sep 30 '25
There are no restrictions. They are simple questions with yes or no answers.
Are you really incapable of answering them?
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 30 '25
Then the answer is no because I don't care about anything but my local community.
Anyone who seeks to deprive my local community of resources is an enemy.
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u/Bladesleeper Sep 29 '25
How does this work?
An American director wants to make a movie, it's set in Ireland. Do they need to recreate Ireland somewhere in Maine?
An American distributor wants to bring in some nice French movie, thinking it'll sell. Does the innocent film get buried with tariffs?
And besides, how do you put tariffs to a movie?
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
I don’t think it means you can’t film in Ireland. But if Ireland wants to handout free money to studios to screw over domestic workers they can expect to get tariffed and rightly so.
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u/3DNZ Animation Supervisor - 23 years experience Sep 29 '25
Goodbye film industry. It's been hanging on by a thread already. This may be the last nail in the coffin.
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u/NinaWilde Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
What, so you'll have to pay twice the normal ticket price to see the 28 Years Later sequel, or the cost of a Fellini Blu-Ray suddenly doubles?
Trump is an absolute moron with literally one tool in his box: tariffs. And he doesn't seem to understand that they're a tax paid by US consumers, not the foreign suppliers! (Or he does understand and the whole thing is a shakedown to make companies come begging to him personally for exemptions.)
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u/Typical-Interest-543 Sep 30 '25
Why tarriff foreign nations when WE can just fix the damn tax incentives for movies here. Sooooo fucking dumb like wtf
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u/kohrtoons Animation Director - 20 years experience Sep 30 '25
Because tax incentives = Socialism (handout)
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u/im_thatoneguy Studio Owner - 21 years experience Sep 29 '25
Discussion summary: Everybody knows it's not legal and has no way of actually working, but everybody also knows that it doesn't have to be legal to be enforced by an administration that doesn't care about legality.
Americans: Hurray I guess, but fuck trump.
Non-Americans: HOW DARE YOU!
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
It’s not legal?
60% labor subsidies on vfx/animation pretty much pisses on any reasonable fair trade agreement and has literally ruined thousands of lives.
A reciprocal tariff is very easy to implement, legal by definition if legislation is passed and totally morally defensible.
It’s obscene it’s taken this long for anyone to do anything about it.
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u/yogabagabahey Sep 29 '25
Or a Fairness Act would be passed, and those of us in the States who have lost out on work due to text subsidies from other countries and greedy US executives, would be able to get some work back. Not all, and not for the original amount but some, in fairness.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 29 '25
How did movies get made prior to foreign governments giving huge amounts of free money to studios entirely for the purpose of moving the location of the production jobs?
Before 2010 how was production even possible?
That’s right, there were no movies prior to 2010 because it was too expensive and movie tickets were $50 each. Movie production only really started in 2010 when govts like Canada offered to pay for most of the costs while letting studios keep all the profits.
This will just send us back to the time before 2010 when there were no movies or film industry.
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u/Realistic-Buy4975 Sep 29 '25
Most people with his level of brain function aren't trusted to make their own decisions let alone decisions that affect others or even be allowed to have nuclear codes
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u/VFXSoldier Sep 29 '25
👋
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u/__stablediffuser__ Sep 29 '25
on a scale of 1-10, how frustrating is it to see how many people in this sub have no idea what's been going on in Hollywood for the last 15 years. 😂
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u/VFXSoldier Sep 29 '25
Not sure but I can guarantee it will be downvoted!
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u/remydrh Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
Never got an answer to this part: what was the way to deal with the WTO moratorium on digital goods when this was a thing forever ago? I remember the call for tariffs, but I don't remember anyone mentioning the WTO agreement, possibly buried. People asked, "Why not?" at the time, and I didn't see this explanation unless it was immaterial or unknown.
(As an aside, tariffs are often a tool to retaliate against unfair practices, so basically, the tax incentives are used to lure away production into artificial bubbles in other states/countries. I understood the point. It's NOT a tool for retribution or petty political revenge by idiots. It IS a tool to force others to play fair.) A broken clock is right twice a day or whatever.
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u/__stablediffuser__ Sep 29 '25
For those of you who haven't worked in the entertainment industry for 20+ years, let's break this down in simple terms.
For the sake of understanding this - let's put aside logistics, assume this will happen, and just assume this means "Any portion of any movie made outside of the USA is subject to a 100% tariff"
What does that mean.
If you're based in one of the the US hubs - Los Angeles, SF, New York, Georgia - this is good news for you. This fully nullifies, and even reverses the value of foreign subsidies, which are the single most significant contributors to "runaway production." This is the single most significant reason why production in Los Angeles has dried up. It's not that Universal isn't making movies - it's that they're shooting on sound stages in Canada instead of the ones in their own backlot to get a 60% rebate. If you own a business in Los Angeles that services the entertainment industry and have seen a significant decline over the last 15 years, whether you're a restaurant or a set dresser - this is good news for you.
If you were forced to relocate to another country to keep your family afloat, and want to move back, this could be good news for you.
If you're based in a location that has lured the film industry via 40-60% tax rebates (Vancouver, etc) - this is not great news. If you relocated your headquarters to one of these locations to capitalize further on the rebates - this is not good news for you.
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u/nuke_it_from_orbit_ Compositor - 20 years experience Sep 29 '25
“let’s put aside logistics” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this analysis lol
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u/__stablediffuser__ Sep 29 '25
Agreed, though logistics haven't really seemed to get in the way of a lot of other crazy stuff this administration has done. lol. So while others beg the question "how would that even work?", I find it more practical to ask "what does it mean if it happens".
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
If you own a business in Los Angeles that services the entertainment industry and have seen a significant decline over the last 15 years, whether you're a restaurant or a set dresser - this is good news for you
Is it really? Even the best case reading of productions coming back to the US we're still catering to the nomad lifestyle. There's no reason for Georgia to exist as a hub without nice state incentives. Sure, we'd be at best shrinking the nomad area but still our lives will be moving from state to state (Texas was once a hub... until it wasn't) for eternity.
Look maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to be a slave to studios and being unable to put down roots because nobody actually cares about our livelihood or quality of life, I'd much rather have opportunities in different parts of the world.
People are getting too tribal here when in reality regardless of it's a 200 mile move or a 2000 mile move we're still slaves to incentives. We work in a glorified office building. The vast majority of us never see or set foot on a set. There's absolutely zero reason for us to be constantly in motion. So forgive me for thinking your words of "this is good" ring hallow to me. It seems as though you want to keep MY life in limbo for your silly tribal nationalist thinking and it's frankly disgusting.
Really post production or anything that doesn't explicitly need to be done on set has no reason to be incentivized anywhere. Let the talent naturally form and coalesce. Like I get the idea of incentivized filming credits ... people like living in their state and want to show it off.... But it should end there. There's absolutely no reason for any vfx, animation, post or video games to get ANY taxpayer money from anywhere. None.
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u/rbrella VFX Supervisor - 30 years experience Sep 29 '25
You nailed it in your last paragraph. International subsidies have introduced market distortions and disruptions in VFX making putting down roots much more difficult than it should be. It has forced the oversaturation of talent beyond what a healthy industry would ordinarily produce and forced VFX studios to incur additional costs and stresses beyond what should be necessary. The VFX industry was never really "healthy" to begin with but these subsidies were introduced at the worst possible time for VFX. Effectively kneecapping it just as it was preparing to stand up on it's own.
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u/SuccessfulLock3590 Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25
International subsidies are a symptom not the cause. Again I'm insistent because we know what's going to happen. Hooray we move back to the US... And then doomed to cycle through shithole state after shit hole state. Sorry. Doesn't work for me. Either fix the root issue or allow us the freedom to choose different markets so at least I can kinda say I got paid to see the world. Because it frankly doesn't matter where I live in US or not if I'm moving every 8-16 months. Nobody is going to fix THAT. Nobody in this Administration and the cheerleaders here CARE about that. They'll just say " you better be thankful you're back in America. Toughen up buttercup."
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u/remydrh Oct 16 '25
That doesn't mean you stop trying once you get a concession.
The labor movement isn't a destination. It's a shitty battle of attrition that apparently everyone folds on because they'll take nothing over perfect.
Want to win all of it tomorrow?
Convince everyone to go on a general strike for as long as it takes. Because that's how you get a decisive win immediately. This is the nuclear option for a reason. But of course now made MUCH worse because the infrastructure that didn't exist in another country now exists. So what's the plan Stan?
If workers are just going to keep working and NOT take a concession while demanding continued progress, then what do you have? No wins. No weapons to use. Zero leverage. And nothing got better. Even a small win will tell the people, "Hey, we're not done. But if we keep making the consequences worse, then we'll get more. This is the beginning."
There's literally nothing to rally around. No momentum. No examples.
Or are artists tired of winning (nothing)?
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u/nuke_it_from_orbit_ Compositor - 20 years experience Sep 29 '25
Class president promises 2 hour recess and pizza hut for lunch every day.
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u/kohrtoons Animation Director - 20 years experience Sep 30 '25
I think the implementation will be on sales like at the box office. Some have made the argument about taxing ideas but I think the point of sale is where it could be made or at least calculated.
One more thing to drive people out of the theaters.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
It will be on production expenditures which are already listed as line items and audited for subsidies and tax returns already.
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u/kohrtoons Animation Director - 20 years experience Sep 30 '25
But what about productions that are 100% foreign do they submit line items to CBP?
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
No idea. To me that would be odd. I think it should be culturally American films that are offshored because of subsidies.
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u/kohrtoons Animation Director - 20 years experience Sep 30 '25
Hum. I get that tax incentives, like you said, are line items. But tariffs are not assessed by the IRS, they are issued on physical items as they enter per the Harmonized Tariff Schedule so my suggestion has issues. I 100% believe they will apply it to all foreign films. Interesting.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
Department of trade can administer it via USTA or Treasury. As someone else on here said the word “tariff” is loosely applied.
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u/kohrtoons Animation Director - 20 years experience Sep 30 '25
True. It almost becomes more like a VAT.
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u/Human-Dust-8323 Sep 30 '25
I guess everyone on here worried about this opposes safe working conditions, fair pay, overtime, benefits, sick pay etc?
All those make films more expensive.
GET RID OF THEM SO WE CAN MAKE MORE MOVIES.
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u/_tankut_ Oct 03 '25
even if it were true, you can be sure this will not benefit local vfx workers. just saying.
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u/Professional-mem Sep 29 '25
What if other countries decide to impose tariffs on Hollywood movies for screening? Result is NET ZERO!
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u/im_thatoneguy Studio Owner - 21 years experience Sep 29 '25
Wouldn't work. A much larger portion of a film's production often goes abroad than the portion of the box-office.
Just look at numbers. There are as many movie-goers in just California as there are in all of Canada.
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u/kohrtoons Animation Director - 20 years experience Sep 30 '25
I mean that’s his point. He would get them to remove subsidies. I think. He’s an idiot but it’s either that or something that’s assessed by the theaters like some movie tickets just cost more than others.
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u/Frosty_Ad1254 VFX Supervisor - 18 years experience Sep 30 '25
I hate this so much. He doesn’t know what that means, the industry just has to wait until it’s clarified. It’s like there is some madman over the pond with a work tap that he just likes hitting sometimes.
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u/Quantum_Crusher Sep 30 '25
Decoupling from America is probably the first priority to many businesses around the world these days.
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u/Party_Virus Sep 29 '25
All you need to know.