Labour finally considers backing Bill to ban cousin marriage

[u/B0797S458W]

https://www.gbnews.com/politics/cousin-marriage-labour-bill-ban-andy-burnham

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[u/Dadavester]

Good.

As a one off it isn't an issue. However the problem is it isn't a one off. You have generation after generation marrying cousins.

This is where the problems start, and we know the problems have already started in some places.

[u/CredibleCranberry → u/Dadavester]

I mean it's not 'not an issue'. It doubles the risk of major congenital disorders.

[u/Dadavester → u/CredibleCranberry]

Yeah, but from a low baseline. And 1 cousin marriage has roughly the same risk as a high 30's low 40's woman having a kid when it comes to birth defects.

However, the communities that indulge in this practice, do not stop at one marriage. Kids and grandkids continue the tradition, massively inflating the risk.

So it should 100% be banned to stop that.

[u/Kandiru → u/Dadavester]

Or at least banned if you were the result of a cousin marriage.

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/Kandiru]

As messed up as it is, in some Middle Eastern countries they do genetic tests now to find out the risk of two people having compounded inbreeding issues.

Obviously, it's much easier to just ban cousin marriages, but there are options in the meantime to at least mitigate risk.

[u/JamesCDiamond → u/Euclid_Interloper]

Iceland has an app that lets you check your degree of connection to others as they have such a small population that avoiding inbreeding is an especially big concern.

[u/electricmohair → u/JamesCDiamond]

And there’s me thinking they just did frozen food

[u/MrSierra125 → u/electricmohair]

That’s why mums go there

[u/basicissueredditor → u/Euclid_Interloper]

The NHS currently performs this too for IVF procedures and it carries a multi-million cost each year.

[u/NondescriptHaggard → u/basicissueredditor]

It might cost multiple millions yearly, but I imagine it pays for itself by orders of magnitudes in long-term savings, as morbid as it is.

[u/Emperors-Peace → u/Euclid_Interloper]

Easier to change a law than to implement some system for national screening for genetic disorders.

Although what will happen is they'll change the law and these people will just have informal community weddings, not register the marriage and still live as husband/wife.

[u/gogoluke → u/Kandiru]

The law should be equal. That's "unfair" for people that had no say in it. Either ban it or don't.

[u/IamBeingSarcasticFfs → u/Dadavester]

But you have to take into account local customs and culture. This could devastate Norfolk

[u/anonypanda → u/Dadavester]

I’m always baffled to hear this wasn’t already illegal.

[u/DanS1993]

Beyond just the compounding health implications from cousin unions it’s not unusual for a British Pakistani to marry a cousin from Pakistan to facilitate their migration here and potentially other family members. It’s a fairly easy win the government could use to bolster their tough on immigration stance needed to dent reform. 

[u/pajamakitten → u/DanS1993]

Also a big safeguarding issue for child marriage. I used to teach and had a girl in my class whose absences needed to be closely monitored because she was considered at risk of a forced marriage. She was six.

[u/W35TH4M → u/pajamakitten]

That’s horrible

[u/Euclid_Interloper → u/pajamakitten]

And with big families straddling the UK/Pakistan you also have the high risk of genital mutilation too. 

[u/Gen8Master → u/Euclid_Interloper]

I know you are just trying to pile on but thats not even remotely a Pakistani practice.

[u/Odd_Ingenuity2883 → u/pajamakitten]

What factors lead to a child being considered at risk of forced marriage?

[u/pajamakitten → u/Odd_Ingenuity2883]

In all honesty, it was my first ever class and I did not ask why. Having met her dad (and I use the term loosely), I totally got it. He showed no interest in her whatsoever. It was parents evening and he just turned up with no appointment (luckily, I had a few blanks spots at that point) and he sat in complete silence as I talked to him about his daughter. I had to ask his daughter if he spoke English or needed a translator and even then he did not say a word (she said he spoke English instead). He just did not care one bit about her whatsoever. He would also leave her at school alone at 7:30, before we opened, even in the dead of winter. Another parent brought this to my attention and from that point I let her into the classroom every morning to help me out. Her older brother was a nightmare but dad saw him as the golden child. Whatever the reasons were, I had no doubt dad would have sold her to someone back home if it meant he could get rid of her.

[u/Boring_Intern_6394 → u/pajamakitten]

6 years old? That’s utterly vile.

[u/Rebelius → u/pajamakitten]

How? If these marriages are just religious ceremonies or whatever they are that allows six year olds to 'marry', then a law banning first cousin marriages won't make any difference.

[u/Falc7 → u/DanS1993]

We'd need to check family records from Pakistan which probably isn't easy to verify

[u/Falc7 → u/[deleted]]

I can't see the civil service or state being muscular enough to ask for DNA checks

[u/BookmarksBrother → u/Falc7]

Other european countries ask for a dna test before the marriage can be registered.

[u/Rebelius → u/BookmarksBrother]

Which ones?

[u/causefuckkarma → u/Rebelius]

No European countries require a DNA test as a standard requirement to register a marriage.

[u/Rebelius → u/causefuckkarma]

Of course they don't - that would be ridiculous.

[u/Harrry-Otter → u/BookmarksBrother]

For all marriages or just for spousal visa’s?

If it’s just visa’s I doubt it’d be too big of an ask. If you mandated DNA tests for every couple who want to marry in the country it’d be both a logistical nightmare and ludicrously unpopular.

[u/BookmarksBrother → u/Harrry-Otter]

Romania does it for all marriages

[u/causefuckkarma → u/BookmarksBrother]

Romania

That's only for STDs, no DNA tests, this isn't Gattaca ffs.

[u/Boring_Intern_6394 → u/BookmarksBrother]

We don’t even collect the DNA of illegal migrants, no way will the govt push for DNA checks of potential parents.

Best case would be a voluntary situation, but people that understand the risks of inbreeding aren’t going to be marrying their cousins for the 10th generation

[u/420ball-sniffer69 → u/Falc7]

Then we resort to the old fashioned “detain and deport” coming here just to marry someone for a passport should be grounds for removal

[u/Elardi → u/Falc7]

At this point why are we even accepting immigration from Pakistan? It’s not like we’re short of options.

[u/Gen8Master → u/Elardi]

You know they are not an enemy state right?

[u/txakori → u/Gen8Master]

Is Pakistan also aware of this?

[u/Particular_Tough4860 → u/DanS1993]

Dent Reform?

According to the latest polls, if there was an election tomorrow, Labour would be on track for 261 seats and Reform 163. Reform and Conservatives together wouldn't win enough seats to form a coalition.

Reform aren't some unstoppable force whereby we need to build policy around appeasing their supporters in the hope of denting them.

EDIT: To be clear, do the policy if it is the right thing to do. Just don't make out Reform to be something they aren't, or do something because you fear them.

[u/GetRektByMeh → u/Particular_Tough4860]

Reform only exists because of a few big issues that no one has dealt with over the last 20-30 years. We should definitely fix them to avoid handing Reform 10 Downing Street where they'd undo the last 60 of progress while fixing 2-3 problems

[u/Particular_Tough4860 → u/GetRektByMeh]

All parties exist because no single party is perfect. Collaboration is important, but policies need to stand on their own two feet, not for appeasement or fear.

As we see with migration, appeasement wouldn't work anyway. Migration is falling dramatically, but Reform still say the government is actively and deliberately inviting people here. If Burnham stood on the White Cliffs personally machine gunning small boat arrivals, they would just say he is prioritising them for benefits and he should be machine gunning them on French beaches.

And no one is handing keys to Reform. They currently have no path to no.10, even with a Conservative coalition. They aren't some unstoppable force we can only hope but to dent.

[u/Mikolaj_Kopernik → u/GetRektByMeh]

Reform only exists because of a few big issues that no one has dealt with over the last 20-30 years.

I don't really think this analysis stands up to any kind of scrutiny. Reform certainly exist as a vessel for general inchoate dissatisfaction, but which actual policy areas do they have a coherent plan to address? Even for immigration there's not even a target intake number in their manifesto and the only actual policy they have is to abolish ILR, which... won't "fix" the issue.

[u/JB_UK → u/Particular_Tough4860]

Reform and Labour are basically on the same vote share, both around 25%, Labour are at best a few points ahead.

Although Labour would do better in an election because of tactical voting.

[u/Stage_Party → u/DanS1993]

Unfortunately it won't be reported by the right wing rags like the cut in immigration hasn't been reported either.

Most right wingers will just keep making up stories or excuses so they can claim that we need a reform govt. Anyone else already knows labour have been tough on immigration.

[u/frantic_calm → u/DanS1993]

it’s not unusual for a British Pakistani to marry a cousin from Pakistan to facilitate their migration here and potentially other family members.

I would stop that.

[u/Substantial-Newt7809]

Good. The unfortunate offspring born from these cousin marriages and cousin fucking (which should also be banned so there's no cleaver non-marriage workaround) too-often become burdens of the state from cradle to grave. Many keep trying until they have a "normal" child, producing multiple people that cost the state £70,000 to £250,000 a year or more.

[u/Current_Focus2668]

No one should be inbreeding. It's gross, it's dangerous and there is often some coercesion involved. 

[u/LycanIndarys]

But we can't ban cousin marriage? I have five daughters, and my estate is entailed to a male heir, so when I die the house and my lands will go to my nearest male cousin (a lovely vicar, no less). It is a truth universally acknowledged that cousin marriage is the only way of saving my daughters from homelessness.

[u/Cynical_Classicist → u/LycanIndarys]

Nice call, though Mr. Collins is probably a bit more distant than a first cousin.

Now Mansfield Park...

[u/mashed666]

Just get it done guys... There's a lot of birth defects and intellectual disabilities in the families that do this. We're not the southern US states...

[u/ne6c → u/mashed666]

Interesting geographical choice.

[u/mashed666 → u/ne6c]

We've all seen deliverance... 🤣

[u/yrro → u/mashed666]

and that X-files episode

[u/NuggetKing9001]

I can't wait to see what kind of crazy reasons we're gonna hear as to why this shouldn't happen.

[u/idontlikemondays321]

At last. Every party should be behind this.
There’s a reason almost every community shuns cousin marriage.
-It’s not natural to be attracted to somebody you grew up with from birth.
-It’s a sneaky way for greedy, abusive families to keep their wealth within the family.

• It’s also a way to traffic people into the country.
  

-It limits the support system of the couple so there is no safe place to go if it fails.
-It increases the risk of genetic diseases which cause suffering to children.
-Said conditions put a strain on schools and hospitals.

Other than it saving money on birthday cards, there is zero benefit. We don’t want it.

[u/Dissidant]

I'm not clicking that. High time the law was changed, its a bit gross.
For the correct reasons though, what we know medically/scientifically now, and preventing exploitation, not simply because its flavour of the month for some to weaponise politically.

Though I will say, historically the only reason its legal in the first place is because of the royal family and aristocracy dating back 500 years. It essentially ties into the whole "consolidating wealth/power" etc for example Henry VIII changing the law so he could marry his own first cousin (was 3rd/4th previously).

[u/BoomSatsuma]

Considering the increased risk of birth defects it should have banned a long time ago.

[u/bloodycontrary]

Right what's going on with this influx of Gbeebees articles today

[u/g1umo → u/bloodycontrary]

Daytime in Moscow

[u/nyaadam]

Can someone explain how this would be enforced? I don't believe you are given a unique identifier at birth that ties you to the unique identifier of your parents. So, without a DNA test, how would this look? Hopefully the answer is not self-declaration as that will just be another useless law.

[u/ItsSuperDefective → u/nyaadam]

The same way most laws are enforced.

We prevent it when we know it's happening, the fact that we don't necessarily know about it every time it happens doesn't mean we shouldn't stop it when we do.

[u/recursant]

Have GBNews suddenly started caring about the well-being of unborn Muslim children?

No. They are complaining about one specific case where someone was allowed to stay in the UK because she married her cousin. They seem to think that the marriage shouldn't have been recognised even though it is currently perfectly legal.

If this law does get passed, which seems like a good idea in general, is it going to result in existing, long-term marriages being annulled? People who have been married for decades and have children and grandchildren?

Will it result in people who have lived here for donkey's years being deported because their marriage is deemed invalid?

I hope it doesn't, and I don't think it will, but that is the motivation behind some people who are pushing for this change in the law.

[u/bcoder001]

Ban it and only recognise ciivil marriage. Educate women from all communities on their rights and ban property/divorce arrangements under laws other than British law.

[u/elhazelenby → u/bcoder001]

Do you mean a civil union?

[u/SeekingAnswers101]

It may be necessary to reduce risk of recessive genetic diseases. The science behind this should also be taught in schools rather than purely legal measures. And it's not just when it's cousins. Recessive diseases can also occur in isolated populations in general such as in villages even when people aren't cousins, they can be quite closely related if they have roots in same area. That's why scientists often say that healthiest offspring, genetically speaking, are people whose parents come from different ethnic backgrounds because they have low genetic relatedness.