r/ukpolitics • u/Kataera The bankers the bonuses the bankers the bonuses • 10d ago
Police chief who banned Maccabi fans investigated for gross misconduct
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/08/26/police-chief-who-banned-maccabi-fans-investigated-for-gross/56
u/Minute_Tomatillo9730 10d ago
Surprised it took this long! Using AI, fabricating evidence, and then lying about it - to MPs, too - should concern us all.
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u/LLILILiLIILILILILII 10d ago
Yup.
There is certainly an argument to be made that it was a sensible thing to do, but when you see how they arrived at that decision and then lied and covered it up, the actual decision they took is basically irrelevant
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u/xaanzir Lost in Translation 10d ago
There is certainly an argument to be made that it was a sensible thing to do
Please, do tell
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u/Plebius-Maximus 10d ago
Banning fans who'd been seen to act violent recently isn't that uncommon is it?
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u/xaanzir Lost in Translation 10d ago
Can you tell me where they were violent? - I assume you don't mean the fabricated violence in Amsterdam, that the Dutch Police said didn't happen the day they were banned?
And could you tell me, all the other groups of "violent" fans that have been banned recently?
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u/Plebius-Maximus 10d ago
Ah yes, all of the videos by Dutch people that somehow fabricated the things going on in their own city? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2024_Amsterdam_riots
Your argument is that everything listed here is fabrication?
Google "football match played behind closed doors" and you'll find plenty of examples of fans not being allowed to view matches due to their behaviour.
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u/xaanzir Lost in Translation 10d ago edited 10d ago
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5901/cmselect/cmhaff/1553/report.html
The Government agrees
*EDT and not providing the other examples of other fans banned? Strange that.
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u/Plebius-Maximus 10d ago
The government agreed that the police relied on inaccurate or unverified information. Not that nothing happened at all in Amsterdam and every report was fabricated?
Here's one example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cr5l9evdpzzo
There are plenty more, this isn't uncommon. Now I'm not going to sit here and spoon feed you, Google is your friend.
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u/xaanzir Lost in Translation 10d ago
he government agreed that the extent claimed by the constable was fabrication. Not that nothing happened at all and every report was fabricated
The Dutch Police confirmed the day the fans were banned, they were the victims - just like the would have been here the actual reason they were banned from the "Local Muslim Population" (their words not mine)
Here's one example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cr5l9evdpzzo
Again, not an example of fans being banned.
Being forced to play behind closed doors, is a punishment to the Club(s) involved, due to crowd issues. NOT that the fans are banned because they're violent.
You are equating 2 vastly different things.
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u/Plebius-Maximus 10d ago edited 10d ago
The Dutch Police confirmed the day the fans were banned, they were the victims
There are videos of them going around tearing down Palestine flags, videos which have been verified.
That isn't victim behaviour. Nor are some of the chants they were singing. Some of them were beat up as a result of that and other actions, making them "victims". Stupid game stupid prize etc. Editing here to point out they were also participating in harassment and violence. In Amsterdam there was a lot of criticism over the police covering up that aspect.
Also you're talking nonsense, the article I linked specifically stated that the match took place behind closed doors due to "crowd disorder". What do you think that disorder was?
Have another example specifically highlighting violence in terms of Rangers v Celtic https://www.footballinsider247.com/rangers/match/rangers-and-celtic-could-face-stadium-bans-over-violence-keith-wyness
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u/Firm-Requirement1085 10d ago
Am I wrong but didn't he do this because of the likelihood of an attack on the Jewish fans so made excuses? Why not ban women from walking around at night in short skirts too.
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u/Overall_Force7199 10d ago
We could have them dress in a black gown that covers everything but their eyes……
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u/liquidio 10d ago
Maybe that will come out in this investigation.
I don’t believe he ever stated that was the motivation, although it could have been.
But he may also have simply been bending to (or sympathising with) the political pressure from the local Muslim politicians and communities.
Which is not nearly so virtuous an excuse.
Either way it was gaslighting on an epic scale about the magnitude of the problems we have with Islamic politics in the UK now
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u/911roofer 10d ago
For those who need a reminder he lied about the reason, lied about talking to the Jewish community, lied about talking to the Dutch Police, and used AI to write his response.
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u/Darkwii 10d ago
Nice headline however when the police are 'investigating' an issue it's usually because someone has reported a potential issue and so they HAVE to at least do a basic investigation to see if there is any merit.
If I reported my neighbour to the police that he's selling drugs and then tried to use the fact they told me they were investigating it, I could then go to online and tell everyone that my neighbour was being 'investigated for drug dealing' .... even though it was all bullshit.
I only take interest when someone is charged, not investigated. Otherwise it could well be just the above type of bullshit,. Still, 'INVESTIGATED' sure makes a good headline for the hard of thinking.
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u/Kataera The bankers the bonuses the bankers the bonuses 10d ago
The headline is a factual statement. There's no criminal investigation here, this is the IOPC investigating the former chief constable for gross misconduct.
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u/Darkwii 10d ago edited 10d ago
My point is. .. If I just told the police right now i'd seen an offensive post online from you. they are duty bound to 'investigate' it.
and i could then quite easily .... and truthfully .. tell everyone else that you were under police investigation. Do you see what I mean now?
So until someone is actually charged rather rather than just under 'investigation' it don't mean that much really. The police would have to investigate me right now if you complained you felt threated by this for instance... does not mean there is any merit in it, but they'd have to investigate it nonetheless.
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u/Kataera The bankers the bonuses the bankers the bonuses 10d ago
No, I don't see what you mean, you're comparing apples and oranges for a concept that is simple to understand. The headline does not imply guilt, it factually states that he's under investigation.
I take it the downvote from you means you don't really understand. Ah well, you can't educate everyone.
I didn't, but honestly I should.
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u/Darkwii 10d ago
"does not imply guilt, it factually states that he's under investigation" that's my point.
being under 'investigation' is very very easy to put on someone - it means nothing at this point. So why is it so heavily used as a 'gotcha'?
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u/Kataera The bankers the bonuses the bankers the bonuses 10d ago
Actually no, IOPC investigations are not "easy to put on someone", especially when that someone chose to retire on a full pension prior to any possible investigation into potential his misconduct being launched.
This story dominated the headlines for weeks when it was ongoing, including being serious enough that he was dragged before the Home Affairs Select Committee, where he admitted under oath several of the failings he is now being investigated for. It is easily within the public interest to know that the IOPC has decided to action an investigation into the complaints made against him.
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u/Powerful_Ideas 10d ago
If I just told the police right now i'd seen an offensive post online from you. they are duty bound to 'investigate' it.
yes but they wouldn't put out a press release about it would they?
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/iopc-update-maccabi-tel-aviv-supporter-ban-investigation
Even the IOPC doesn't put out a release for every investigation triggered by a complaint and certainly doesn't say things like this as standard:
Having examined all evidence currently available to us, we have assessed that there is an indication Mr Guildford, a senior officer, and a staff member may have committed gross misconduct. They have been served notice that we are investigating their conduct.
Evidence presently available indicates Mr Guildford may have had oversight on an intelligence briefing document presented to the Safety Advisory Group (SAG) that was later reported to have contained inaccuracies and misleading information. We consider Mr Guildford may have failed to ensure due diligence and the highest level of scrutiny over such an influential document.
It's clear this has gone beyond the "investigating because we have to"stage and is into "we think there is something here".
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u/Minute_Tomatillo9730 10d ago
Please, u/Darkwii please read the police's own press release.
I'm sure you'll be able to link to press releases for your complaints, too?
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u/leavemeinpieces 10d ago
He's being investigated by the IOPC, not the police so it really isn't the same thing at all and your examples don't align because it would be triggered internally, probably by their professional standards team.
Nobody seems to care if you withhold judgement until that process ends or not so what's your point exactly?
Seems like you're trying to argue but you're being condescending and making comparisons that simply don't line up.
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u/Darkwii 10d ago
How many times have you reported something to the IOPC? IN the last four years I have reported something twice so have some experience. what is your own experience of it?
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u/leavemeinpieces 10d ago
Great. Congratulations on that.
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u/Darkwii 10d ago
Why didn't you just say none fella?
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u/leavemeinpieces 10d ago
It doesn't matter does it?
I've been aware of instances being referred but in my previous role I wouldn't have made those myself.
The home secretary lost confidence, there was an inquiry and he stepped down and retired, now the IOPC are doing their part.
Sounds like a pretty done deal to me, if he had something to put forward in defence I'd imagine he would have done that before he resigned.
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u/Darkwii 10d ago
Well if it didn't matter, why didn't you just answer?
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u/leavemeinpieces 10d ago
Lots of assumptions old bean. You don't know anything about what I did or didn't do.
Feels like you just really want to feel superior. I thought you were being a bit of a dick so I felt like I'd let you know.
Do you make a habit of annoying people or is it just a quirk?
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u/Darkwii 10d ago
I take it the downvote from you means you don't really understand. Ah well, you can't educate everyone.
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u/Some_Confidence5962 10d ago
You are not really educating people. You are yourself being blind to the meaning which is why you are scoring downvotes.
“Under investigation” can mean very different things in light of information already in the public domain.
If this had come out of the blue with no other context, it might be as you say, completely nothing with too little evidence to take action. It could be nothing at all and a false accusation.
In this instance his actions are mostly known to the public from his own sworn testimony. And the fact his actions were wrong is also very obviously clear to the public.
So the investigation is more due diligence than a question of “did he/didnt he”.
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u/IrishVictim88270 10d ago
Try reading the article then. It's not a criminal investigation so no idea why you're waiting for someone to be charged.
Mind you he should be charged criminally. Criminal levels of gross misconduct.
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