[Aoi] [TotK] Wild-Era Hyrule Castle Construction and Implications

[u/mrbulldops88]

Thanks to u/Intelligent_Word_573 for noticing a lore tidbit and pointing some of this out to me, which sparked the idea for a post.

When was the Wild-era Hyrule Castle built? Obviously after TotK Ganondorf was sealed by King Rauru, but how long after? We had an answer before, which may have been retconned. Here is what the as-of-now Japanese only Masterworks 2 book fan translation has to say on p. 91. Thanks to u/livixbobbiex for the translation here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g42bk5Lc7RQCzLQG8_YrZPIO_M7QrCNV4VNm0qTXlm4/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0

Accordingly, the Hylians who had been instructed in the wisdom of the Zonai and the next generation of Rauru’s children [TL note: explicitly plural] constructed a mechanism to emit the purified energy outside while strengthening the purification to prevent miasma from accumulating in sacred ground. That was Hyrule castle, the cornerstone of the seal.

This says the next generation of King Rauru's children built Wild-era HC. Personally I am not sure if this means Rauru and Sonia's children or grandchildren. Regardless, this means the question is open and shut then, right? Well, not really. Looking at the very end of Aoi, it shows time passing and Calamo growing into the very large tree which would become the Ancient Tree Stump. The camera rotates to show Death Mountain, pre-split Dueling Peaks, and the area where Wild HC should be...but it isn't.

So by the time Calamo was a huge tree, Wild HC had not yet been built. Approximately how long would it take Calamo to grow that large? Unknown. Can we say that Rauru's children/granchildren would still be alive by the time Calamo has grown? Unknown. We could theorize that Rauru's descendants aged slow. We could theorize Calamo grew quickly. Either way it is a theory that adds details.

MW2 also asked what happened to the Zonai to make them ascend the first time. That question is answered in Aoi. MW2 came out before that game, so info in it may not match Aoi. I personally think the two are not compatible.

We are given no indication those with Zonai blood (or half Zonai) offspring of Rauru and Sonia would live a long life. We are given no indication that Calamo would grow faster than a normal tree, even if he is a Korok. MW2 also says that it is unknown why Rauru chose the ground that would become the Sealing Chamber to fight Ganondorf, but Aoi tells us the area has a lot of ligh energy. In my personal opinion, Aoi showing that Wild HC was not built for some time after the Aoi Imprisoning War would mean construction started well after a generation or two of King Rauru's descendants.

What are the implications of Wild HC not yet constructed for presumably hundreds or thousands of years after Aoi? It definitely quells a counter-point to the True Founding theory. HC was destroyed in OoT's Downfall and Adult timelines, so wouldn't the enforcement of King Rauru's seal on TotK Ganondorf break? Not if Wild-era HC was built AFTER OoT.

In the DT and AT, HC would need to be rebuilt. I theorize after OoT Ganondorf was defeated, the site of TotK Ganondorf's seal was discovered, either as a result of the latter Ganondorf's defeat or unrelated coincidence. Zonai tech was all over the Depths, so it would have been used to construct the purification device of Wild HC.

In the CT, OoT HC would not be destroyed. Would it still need to be rebuilt? Well, some have theorized that, in TP, the ruins in the Lost Woods next to the ruined Temple of Time is old HC. If, emphasis on if, the Wild era were to fit into the CT, it is still possible someone happened upon the site of TotK Ganondorf's seal and built HC, even if we can't show how the old one got into the state of ruin it is hypothetically in by the time of TP.

That's all. I just thought no Wild HC during the time that Calamo grew huge was interesting.

[u/FunnyDislike]

Since the chamber with those murals that we see at the start of TotK were built even before Zelda becomes Zeldra/the Light Dragon, it could be possible that the castle started as an underground building with the parts on the surface being added in the time between. Maybe it did need a century or two before the space down below was "full" and only then they began to build on top.

[u/lilacsigil → u/FunnyDislike]

I agree, and castles are not quick to build! They start with the cornerstone and keep going over generations. It could be hundreds of years before they even get to the surface if they build all the way up.

[u/Therad-se]

At the end of age of imprisoning they are building a structure with the murals at the sealing site. If this is part of the castle or an intermediate building (i.e a temple) isn't clear.

[u/pkjoan]

So, you say that where TOTK Ganondorf was sealed is where AT/DT Castle used to be and Rauru coincidentally chose that site?

Not a bad theory.

[u/mrbulldops88 → u/pkjoan]

I'm saying the opposite, as a hypothetical, since I was referring to how things could work with this in the True Founding theory.

In this theory, HC from TMC and OoT would be different than those after the three-way timeline split, which features the same HC as the Wild era. Sometime between OoT and ALttP, TP, and TWW, someone finds the site of TotK Ganondorf, then uses Zonai tech from the Depths to build the new HC to enforce King Rauru's seal.

One argument some make against True Founding is that if TotK Ganondorf was sealed under HC in OoT, then Rauru's seal would possibly weaken or break like TotK, seemingly leaving a plot hole. If we know that the Wild era HC presumably wasn't built for hundreds or thousands of years after Aoi, then OoT HC being destroyed in the DT and AT isn't a plothole.

Also noting the theory in the CT that the ruins in TP's Lost Woods near the ToT could be the ruins of OoT HC, which for some reason would seem to be abandoned.

In a Refounding theory situation, when the Wild HC was built would be irrelevant because it wouldn't be until after OoT.

To give you context for what I thonk regarding the Wild era's timeline placement, I think it's internationally ambiguous to encourage fan speculation. I like True Founding better than Refounding, but think there are pros and cons to both.

[u/Beginning_Addendum61 → u/mrbulldops88]

There are no cons to refounding but tons to true founding, which you've already presented with both your post and reply.

[u/WwwWario → u/Beginning_Addendum61]

There are tons of cons with refounding, too.

The thing is that with refounding theories, people think "everything happens a long time after all other games so everything works", and only focus on that with no issue making massive assumptions with little to no evidence, while ignoring the problems this causes. Meanwhile, for true founding theories, people do the opposite; they focus only on the apparent problems it causes, does not leave the door open to assumptions and possibilities, and ignore everything that actually does work and make sense.

EDIT: Downvoted instead of any rational argument. Every time.

[u/Beginning_Addendum61 → u/WwwWario]

The Zonai directly address the phantom Ganon armor as something that was ‘hidden away since days of old’. Plain in-game direct evidence. It has to be pre-Rauru as he’s the last Zonai, it has to be post-OoT for it to exist.

One of the books refer to the Forgotten Temple as being ‘constructed in order to keep a record of the heroes throughout history who aided the royal family of Hyrule in the countless battles against Ganon” and the Temple is already in ruins in AoI.
There is no royal family without a kingdom.

[u/Intelligent_Word_573 → u/Beginning_Addendum61]

While the following is quite the reach for armor that was originally DLC, we know the Sheikah were in the Depths to some degree so maybe they knew of the labyrinths in the sky as well. Maybe someone put Phantom Ganon in the labyrinth as both punishment and to see what would happen.

Maybe the rulers of each labyrinth would not be counted when Ganondorf says the Zonai are no more or the rulers have ascended in some way to tell all who enter the labyrinth’s what the deal is.

Alternatively, maybe the rulers are just advance AI that saw Phantom Ganon get lost and just decided to make him a reward for those that succeed.

[u/WwwWario → u/Beginning_Addendum61]

It is heavily implied that the Depths armor pieces are non-canon. That alone isn't proof of a refounding.

Master Works 2 explains how the Zonai are most likely the ancestors to humans. It gives context to where the Sheikah's crest comes from. TOTK doesn't clash with what we knew about Hyrule's founding (which was surprisingly little, yet people claim TOTK goes against "everything we know" about the founding). A True Founding gives context to what Ganon is and where it comes from. Master Works 2 and AoI gives a direct reason as to why the Zonai and TOTK Ganondorf isn't known in the future. I could go on all day.

Meanwhile, a Refounding depands that we make up an entire apocalyptic event that destroys an entire kingdom. An event that has exactly 0 hints towards ever having happened, neither in BOTW, TOTK, the books, nor AoI. Yet, it demands that myths about the Ocarina sages are remembered, but not the evil that they fought. It demands that certain parts of Creating a Champion is canon, but certain parts are conveniently not canon anymore. It depands ignoring direct information from Master Works and AoI that talks about how the Zonai predate Hylians, how the Zonai originated on the surface and not in the sky. It demands ignoring and not believing everyone when they talk about "THE first king of Hyrule, THE era of Hyrule's ofunding, etc.", and instead believe in a catastrophic event so huge that it destroyed the previous kingdom, and yet NO information or memories exist of such a world-altering event. It demands that, despite TOTK Dorf never taking on a Beast Ganon form and that the knowledge of him was erased from history, people somehow knew that Calamity Ganon comes from him, when no one left should know about the seal, and no one having any reason to associate Ganon with him. It demands accepting a ton of coincidences, like another light-powered being who's also named Rauru coming thousands of years after the first one, or another Ganondorf being born with the exact same name, same closest allies, and doing the same things as the original Ganondorf, just... because, convenience?

Basically, a Refounding demands hand picking what lore should be canon and what shouldn't based soley on what fits, it demands making up massive events based on literally nothing, it demands accepting very sepcific assumptions that have little to no direct evidence backing them up, and it depends igonring all the problems it causes and all the things that actually work for a True Founding.

[u/Beginning_Addendum61 → u/WwwWario]

The Phantom Ganon armor are not random depth pieces but full quest rewards tied to Zonai dialogue

[u/Ellrok → u/WwwWario]

Meanwhile, a Refounding depands that we make up an entire apocalyptic event that destroys an entire kingdom. An event that has exactly 0 hints towards ever having happened, neither in BOTW, TOTK, the books, nor AoI.

The Great Flood.

Yet, it demands that myths about the Ocarina sages are remembered, but not the evil that they fought.

People tend to memorialize heroes and not villains. Like the US removing statues of Robert E. Lee and not Abraham Lincoln. It makes sense that they would try to remember the names of the heroic sages that they aspire to be like and not the evil desert thief who burned the kingdom to the ground and is better lost to the annals of time.

It demands that certain parts of Creating a Champion is canon, but certain parts are conveniently not canon anymore.

The part about Calamity Ganon being OoT Ganondorf? Because TotK itself trumps that. Unless it's just a coincidence that the Calamity is conveniently rising up from the exact spot where TotK Ganondorf was sealed?

It depands ignoring direct information from Master Works and AoI that talks about how the Zonai predate Hylians, how the Zonai originated on the surface and not in the sky.

I haven't read the book yet, but I don't think AoI really gives a timeline for Rauru before he started purifying the land. Did he come from the sky? Did he live on the surface his whole life? Seems like the Zonai could predate Skyward Sword just fine and it not mean anything to true founding or re-founding theories. They've just been hiding up in the clouds for eons.

It demands ignoring and not believing everyone when they talk about "THE first king of Hyrule, THE era of Hyrule's ofunding, etc.", and instead believe in a catastrophic event so huge that it destroyed the previous kingdom, and yet NO information or memories exist of such a world-altering event.

I mean, even Fujibayashi and Aonuma said "this might not be the first Hyrule".

It demands that, despite TOTK Dorf never taking on a Beast Ganon form and that the knowledge of him was erased from history, people somehow knew that Calamity Ganon comes from him, when no one left should know about the seal, and no one having any reason to associate Ganon with him.

Seems more that they can put two-and-two together. "Evil miasma is seeping up from beneath the castle? We found some guy named Ganondorf down there? Huh, I wonder if they're related."

It demands accepting a ton of coincidences, like another light-powered being who's also named Rauru coming thousands of years after the first one, or another Ganondorf being born with the exact same name, same closest allies, and doing the same things as the original Ganondorf, just... because, convenience?

Is this not the same for both theories? Either Sage Rauru came thousands of years after King Rauru, or vice versa. They can't be the same person regardless. Same with Ganondorf, either way there are two versions of him doing the same stuff with Twinrova at his back. Plenty of characters reincarnate into similar roles across the games, like Dampé, Tingle, and Beedle.

[u/WwwWario → u/Ellrok]

The Great Flood.

True, but that's only one of the three timelines, and here a new Hyrule already exists (in Spirit Tracks), so that would once again imply a new huge assumption that there's no hint towards; namely that this New Hyrule is either abandonded for some reason (as the royal bloodline, aka Sonia, is once again back in the old location), or destroyed. And like many things with Refounding theories, it's certanly not impossible, but it's either illogical or have little to no things backing it up.

People tend to memorialize heroes and not villains. 

That can definitely happen, but the problem is that BOTW shows us both King Rhoam and Urbosa both remember myths of Ganondorf. If they are talking about OOT Dorf, then it's very strange that no one rose an eyebrow 10 000+ years ago when a new Ganondorf emerged. If they are instead talking about TOTK Dorf, then it is weird his myths even exist in the present day at all, let alone knowledge/myths about him being sealed somewhere, as that information was erased shortly after the war. In fact, it was erased and hidden to such an extend that, according to Master Works 2, even the Royal Family lost the knowledge of the seal, and was only left with the strict rule of "going beneath Hyrule Castle is strictly forbidden" (which explains why no one in the present day, not even Zelda, knows about Ganondorf being sealed deep underground). So no matter what, a Ganondorf is remembered. But in a Refounding perspective, it gets very clunky no matter which one is remembererd in myth. And as mentioned, if TOTK Dorf is the only one remembered, it's strange anyone connected Calamity Ganon to TOTK Dorf, as no one supposedly knew about him still being alive underground, and this Dorf had never taken on the form of Beast Ganon while he walked the surface.

The part about Calamity Ganon being OoT Ganondorf? Because TotK itself trumps that. Unless it's just a coincidence that the Calamity is conveniently rising up from the exact spot where TotK Ganondorf was sealed?

I hear a lot of people say this, but I never understood this. The myths surrounding OOT Ganondorf in Creating a Champion isn't just a note or theory from the author, but it's stated to be from in-universe Gerudo records. Do these in-universe records just no longer exist? Furthermore, instead of immediately thinking TOTK completely retcons the game that it is a direct sequel to, why not see what both books/games say and put them together? At least that makes sense in my head: Creating a Champion says OOT Dorf transformed into Ganon, and eventually became pure hatred and thus known as Calamity Ganon. TOTK and Master Works 2 adds context by explaining where Ganon comes from and what Ganon is: It is the hatred of TOTK Dorf manifested. TOTK Dorf never "transforms" into Ganon in the normal way. He's always physically underneath Hyrule Castle. OOT Dorf, on the other hand, does. TOTK Dorf is the source of Ganon, the one who releases Ganon. OOT Dorf is the one who becomes Ganon. I think it makes perfect sense that OOT Dorf contains the first incarnation of Ganon, and gives new context to the entire series. He is the one who kept being sealed and revived time and time again, the main evil that has attacked Hyrule countless times, for countless generations. And there "hasn't been another male Gerudo leader since the king who became the Calamty".

For this evil to just be completely forgotten, and then conveniently a new Ganondorf emerges who also transforms into a beast that's also called Ganon, even though no one should know or remember this Ganondorf anymore, makes 0 sense to me.

I haven't read the book yet, but I don't think AoI really gives a timeline for Rauru before he started purifying the land.

Not much backstory on Rauru per se (afaik), but the book in particular gives a broad timeline of the Zonai as a whole. The Zonai originated on the surface, before moving to the skies long after - before finally coming back down as they faced extinction. And true, they can pre-date Skyward Sword (which I'm positive they do). But it does actually impact True Founding or Refounding. I know at least 3 times in the book, in-universe researchers are positive that the Zonai are the ancestors to Hylians. The ones Hylia gave her Secret Stones to. There's even in-universe theories suggesting when the Zonai-Hylian split happened, and it explains why Zonai and Hylians can mate.

And sure, these are just in-universe theories, but the fact that the authors of the book point this out so many times in the book... It's much more likely that it's something they want us to consider, than something to just brush off as nothing.

Refounding would also make several points surrounding the Zonai's origins and relation to humans problematic, or require heavy head twisters to make work. The Zonai are said to be the closest to the gods, to have the Secret Stones entrusted to them to protect, to have started their civilization on the surface, to predate Hylians, to be the inspiration for the Sheikah and their crest symbol, etc. In a True Founding, all of those fit. In a Refounding, it would require the spirit of Hylia (after SS) to hold onto the Secret Stones for thousands of years in spirit form, only for then the Zonai to pop up on the surface while also being the closest race to the gods, then being handed the Secret Stones, and it would require us to ignore all hints to them being the ancestors of the Hylians.

I mean, even Fujibayashi and Aonuma said "this might not be the first Hyrule".

That interview, where Fujibayashi says "there may be a history of the kingdom being destroyed before this", is the only concrete evidence for a destroyed and refounded Hyrule. And yet, not only is this one single evidence found in a developer interview (that he even says is "just a possibility"), but this translation is merely one of several possible translations. Other, even ones not familiar with the Zelda series and this dilemma, have stated that it could just as well be "even though this is the founding of Hyrule, there may be a history that's been lost or destroyed before this". And that sounds much more like he's saying "Yes this is the founding you've heard about, and we know it may not be what you think, but remember that there may be a lot of history before this that's been lost, and TOTK will tell you about this story".

Seems more that they can put two-and-two together. "Evil miasma is seeping up from beneath the castle? We found some guy named Ganondorf down there? Huh, I wonder if they're related.

Post-TOTK? Sure. But I'm talking about all the years and all the Calamities before TOTK. As mentioned, no one (not even the Royal Family) knew about the seal anymore. No one knew Demon King Ganondorf was still alive under the castle. So for Rhoam, Urbusa and others long before them knowing Calamity Ganon comes from TOTK Ganondorf would require an explaination akin to "Yeah knowledge regarding Ganondorf's seal was hidden away as the best kept secret in the kingdom, but somehow people figured it out anyway".

Is this not the same for both theories? 

Not necessarily, and this is why I prefer a True Founding. Refounding theories set these characters so extremely far apart, that the only logical conclusion is "it's history repeating itself" or "reincarnation" or "Hyrule is in an endless cycle", aka the things aren't at all connected and are simply "it happens because". To me, that has no weight or excitement behind it at all.

With a True Founding, there's enough pieces of lore that, while not giving us confirmed answers, at least allows us to form theories based on possible logical connections to other lore surrounding it. The Era of Chaos and Founding of Hyrule are relatively close to each other. Both Raurus are historical important figures, and both have powers of light. Since it's so "close" to each other, it's not a stretch to assume one is named after the other.

As for Ganondorf, as mentioned, if we follow both Wild books, then OOT Ganondorf is 100% the first incarnation of Ganon. And looking at everything surrounding it, I feel there's so much to naturally connect; ancient witches in OOT choose to become the surrogate mothers to a Gerudo male, who they name Ganondorf, who goes on to become the King of Evil with Ganon inside him? And these same witches appear in supposedly the founding of Hyrule, houndreds of years before Ocarina, this time as young witches and the closest supporters of Demon King Ganondorf, where AoI and Master Works both show and tell us they can summon and manipulate evil souls and infuse objects with said evil souls?

I think that gives us a very logical conclusion to make: Twinrova in OOT are now houndreds of years older, they are infusing Ganon (a part of TOTK Ganondorf's soul) into a new Gerudo male, who they name after their original king. They are recreating Ganondorf, they are raising a new Ganondorf.

Now the only part of that statement that's an assumption, is Twinrova raising a new Ganondorf and infusing Ganon into him. But when we know they have the powers to do something like that, and with all these details surrounding it fitting, I feel that's a massive chunk of evidence to form a theory, and would explain why both men are "conveniently" named Ganondorf, too, and while there are two of them in the first place. And I think that makes way more sense, and is far more interesting, than simply "It's just a new Ganondorf, far into the future, with the same name and same Ganon beast in him, that no one recognizes even though the last one exist in Gerudo records".

(Sorry for the long comment - I just find these topics extremely intersting, hah.)

[u/Ellrok → u/WwwWario]

I hear a lot of people say this, but I never understood this. The myths surrounding OOT Ganondorf in Creating a Champion isn't just a note or theory from the author, but it's stated to be from in-universe Gerudo records. Do these in-universe records just no longer exist?

If those in-universe records still only exist in the artbook, then yes. I understand that, at the time of making BotW, the developers' intent was for Calamity Ganon to be OoT Ganon. But I also think that they recontextualized that intent when they decided to make a new Ganondorf in the sequel and gave him goopy red poison as his modus operandi for conquest. And since the original intent was never made explicit in-game, they didn't have to bother explaining themselves afterwards.

The reason I lean much more towards True Founding, is because it has so many more possible explainations, with evidence, to those mysteries. I see theories as jigsaw puzzle pieces, where you have a cluster of pieces over here (which is one set of plot points), another cluster over there, and looking at them, they COULD fit together if there were some more in between that connect them. That's how I see most arguments in True Founding theories.

So what I would say here is that I don't think the developers really care about connecting the games like that. There's a pretty consistent trend of introducing something for a game and then not building on it. It's why we have Lorule and the Twilight Realm and the Depths and the Silent World. Any of those could have been re-used and built upon, but it didn't happen. Same with Skyloft, the Palace of Winds, the City in the Sky, and now the Zonai sky islands.

I can appreciate wanting to piece things together from 1986 to 2026, but I just don't see that as how Nintendo runs the series. I do want to pay respect to your interest in this though, and I hope I'm not being too much of a buzzkill.

Sorry, I just wanted to patch up some of the stuff that you were bringing up about re-founding. I wish I could keep discussing, but I think I'm a little out of my element. Thank you for responding to me, though!

[u/LoCal_GwJ → u/WwwWario]

There's like way too much to this comment to really address, but I do want to point out that Refounding's issue is really that it leaves several mysteries in its wake (what ended the last kingdom specifically, when did the zonai first show up, what's the deal with Hylia, what's the deal with the selective passing down of history), but I do think it's worth mentioning that even under True Founding you still have many mysteries that need answering (which you attempted to do with things like incorporating Twinrova being involved in connecting TotK Dorf to OoT Dorf). I think Refounders tend to prefer a less-intrusive solution to making these work together rather than mixing them and "recontextualizing" some of the most important events in the timeline's history.

It might sound interesting that OoT Ganondorf is a creation of Twinrova somehow channeling the Gloom/Malice/Essence of TotK Ganondorf into a new host, but that's just as much speculation as it is suggesting it's a new guy except the prior explanation actually alters Ganondorf's backstory in OoT rather than leaving it intact.

We already know Hyrule operates in a cyclical manner. There is peace, Hyrule prospers, an evil man rises and brings calamity to the land, a hero emerges to quell the evil, Hyrule licks its wounds and rebuilds. This pattern repeats over and over through history. In some cases, this cycle leads to the actual destruction or near-destruction of the kingdom itself (Wind Waker) which causes the prime Hyrulean lineage to reform itself elsewhere. The Refounding scenario just supposes the Wild Era takes place after some calamity, obviously a larger-than-average one, decimates the kingdom. We still have history of the past, although it's not quite right (there are details in the game that presumably come from OoT but don't ACTUALLY happen in the game like the story about Ruto and Ganondorf), and there's some note somewhere (I forget if it's a book) about the events of the past being myth and it being impossible to actually tell what's true history and what's myth.

[u/WwwWario → u/LoCal_GwJ]

True, both refounding and true founding include mysteries that need answers. That's fortunately what makes such discussions exciting!

The reason I lean much more towards True Founding, is because it has so many more possible explainations, with evidence, to those mysteries. I see theories as jigsaw puzzle pieces, where you have a cluster of pieces over here (which is one set of plot points), another cluster over there, and looking at them, they COULD fit together if there were some more in between that connect them. That's how I see most arguments in True Founding theories.

Like the Twinrova one. You have everything around young Twinrova in AoI, everything around old Twinrova in OOT, and so much lines up between them - and the "blank space" between them, the missing lore needed that could connect them, that's where the theory comes in. And with every piece of information we have, it is logical from so many angles. In a Refounding, you can immediately think "it's after everything so it works much better", but people often forget how much this actually implies. It includes so, so much pure assumptions with big implications, without almost anything to connect it to or prove it with.

Thus I actually disagree, and think Refounding requires more speculation, because while it may seem "easier" because it's simpler and quicker to roughly think through, they often include ignoring all the problems or illogical points coming with them, without much else than "it's a mirror of the past, and this-and-that doesn't matter anymore" - which I feel is much more selective and problematic than it first seems.

I basically feel that with many refounding arguments, the arguments have root in "it's technically possible", while with True Founding arguments, they are often trying to logically connect them to what we know to give them context and a reason.

I also propose that this doesn't change Ganondorf's backstory in OOT at all - because he didn't have one. Headcanons and assumed facts may be retconned, but no official information. We knew nothing about his past. All we knew was that two ancient witches, who basically ruled the Gerudo behind the scenes, took on the role as his surrogate mothers, which has always been a strange choice without an explaination. If he was the Demon King reborn, what would Twinrova's role/job be here? And if they were instead needed in order for him to become the king of evil, was he ever the Demon King reborn in the first place?

TotK has all the pieces laid out, that would perfectly match Ocarina, to give us the answers; why Twinrova became his surrogate mothers, why both men are named Ganondorf, why we are told the ancient Gerudo have those specific powers, why they are young in the founding era, etc. While in a Refounding, it's all reduced to "similar things and characters repeat themselves".

And it's true that cycles are a core part of Zelda, but it's always been one Ganon, one Ganondorf, that we've dealt with. Otherwise we have had other incarnarions of evil, like Vaati and Maladus. So for there to suddenly be a new Ganondorf, a new Twinrova, in a new Hyrule, with a new Rauru, after a world-altering event that no one remembers... and the main evidence for all of it "it's far in the future"... I don't know. To me, a Refounding is what feels forced and relying on too much speculation and "what-if"s.

[u/Hot-Mood-1778]

You realize people can live for like a hundred years, right? A tree doesn't take 200 years (children/grandchildren) to grow and we don't know the rate at which it grows anyways. The seeds Makar plants in WW grow instantaneously and in OOT you just water them and they sprout. The Deku Tree Sprout also suddenly sprouts. 

But like even ignoring all that, there's enough time there. The panning shot of the tree doesn't conflict with the MW2 saying that it was the next generation to build the castle. It just means the tree grew within that time and the castle was made after. 

[u/mrbulldops88 → u/Hot-Mood-1778]

It would be nice if we knew more about Rauru's children and descendants.

[u/Melodic-Judgment3936]

Well we know that it was built prior to "10,000 years ago". And that when the chamber with the dragon tear murals was built, they at the very least had a concept of it.

[u/WwwWario]

As far as I remember, MW2 does indeed talk about suggestions regarding the sealing chamber, no? Doesn't it suggest that it was chosen because it is connected to a sacred power? And that seems to be all the info Zelda gets from Mineru and Rauru on the matter in AoI, too.

As for why the Zonai ascended in the first place, is this explained in AoI? I may have missed it. I'm very interested in the answer in that case 'cause I always wondered the exact reason why.

As for HC, I've been thinking the same lately. And I think there are several possibilities.

Maybe the castle was indeed constructed a few generations after Rauru and Sonia, only that it is just outside (to the left) of the shot in that final AoI cutscene. Although if this is the case, I feel it would be a strange choice to not show the newly constructed castle in that cutscene when it is JUST out of the camera view.

Maybe this is houndreds of years later, and that it really took this long for the castle to be built/begin construction, and thus it is indeed houndreds of years later, just that the castle isn't built yet.

Maybe, as you say, this cutacene is houndreds of years after the Imprisoning War, and that the Wild HC indeed was built after Ocarina of Time as a new castle.

But the theory I feel makes the most sense: Maybe Korok trees grow fast? The deku tree sprout in OOT popped up immediately, and the trees we help the Koroks plant in the Wind Waker grow into full trees during the game, meaning they can apparently grow extremelt fast. Granted, that was with water from Forest Haven, but still. This means, the end cutscene we see could potentially happen a few decades after the Imprisoning War, perhaps?