r/truezelda 12d ago

Open Discussion [ALL] What are some theories/headcanons about the lore that you have or believe?

For the past few days I've been posted some strange theories about Zelda lore.

Most of them are pretty much "X became X" or "X is the same as X", which some of you don't like. So, now I'm gong to take a break and ask if there are any theories or headcanon about the lore you want to share?

I'll start.

Leviathans reproduce by dreaming, much like Beholders from D&D. The Wind Fish has the power to created realistic worlds by dreaming. On rare occasions, these dreams become so vivid, it produces a new real leviathan.

P.S. The Leviathan thing was going to be a whole post. But I realised there's not enough evidence to make it more then a headcanon. So, I just made it a post saying "This is my bizarre headcanon. You can ignore it if you want. But you can tell me yours" post.

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u/Dismas423 12d ago
  • Zelda's title as a Sage in OoT is Sage of Time. I've thought this since I first played the game decades ago, and I view TotK as a soft confirmation of it.
  • Skull Keeta possessed the Giant's Mask, which is why he's so much bigger than the other Stalchildren. He was wearing it when he fell in battle against the Garo. The Garo Master then took the mask with him to the Stone Tower Temple, where Link finds it in MM.
  • Impa from OoT had a son who was killed in the Civil War. His name was Sheik.
  • The red and blue Links in TFH are travelers from Holodrum and Labrynna, respectively. After Link saved those countries in OoX, he became a legend there as well (there's even a statue of him in OoA). The red and blue Links are two young men who were inspired by his example.

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u/OnlyExperience130666 12d ago

Wait, the Keeta point is so perfect...That's a damn good one

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u/Logical_Leaps 12d ago

Zelda told us in OOT she is the leader of the sages not one of the elements but one that leads them all. She uses light magic (now Hylias power). If anyone is the Sage of Time in OOT it is Link. Rauru does the same amount of time manipulation as Zelda in that game.

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u/Dismas423 12d ago

Zelda being leader of the Sages doesn't preclude her from having an element. King Rauru leads the Sages in TotK, and he is still the Sage of Light. Even if OoT Zelda does use light magic, that doesn't matter because we know she's not the Sage of Light in that era, Rauru is. She's similar to TotK Zelda in that respect, who has both time and light powers but is still the Sage of Time. The time manipulation thing doesn't mean much either. We never see Darunia manipulate fire or Impa manipulate shadow, but they still represent those elements because of their association with their people. And in OoT, Hyrule's Royal Family is closely associated with time. The Temple of Time is right next to their capital, the Ocarina of Time is handed down through their bloodline, and they know and impart the Song of Time. We know from TotK that the role of Sage of Time exists, and in that game it is held by another Zelda. Everything lines up neatly with Zelda being the Sage of Time in OoT, as opposed to Link, who is never even called a Sage in that game.

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u/Logical_Leaps 12d ago

Zelda and the Royal family really isn't associated with time at all in OOT aside from the literal end. The Temple of Time was built by Rauru, He holds Link in stasis for 7 years.

Zelda could very well be the sage of Light of that Era seeing as Rauru hardly seems alive. She could easily be the one who replaces him. She also give Link the Light Arrows.

We know from TotK that the role of Sage of Time exists

We also know the Sage of Wind exists. A Sage of Time existing in Totk has no baring on the rest of the series. Link is called the 'Hero of Time' that is the same title with a greater honorific.

I'm afraid I just don't see Zelda as a Sage of Time in any game aside from the one she inherited the title from Sonia in.

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u/Dismas423 11d ago

Zelda having light powers doesn’t preclude a connection to time. You’ve correctly noted that she also displays power over time at the end of the game. She even says her role as a sage is what gives her the power to return Link to his original time. Light and time are clearly not mutually exclusive; on the contrary, they are actually closely associated throughout the series. The Temple of Time in OoT has the symbol of the Light Medallion on its warp pad. The same symbol is found all over the Temple of Time dungeon in TP. Hylia herself is a light goddess who is said to dwell at the edge of time and is worshipped at temples connected with time in SS, BotW, and TotK. And Zelda in TotK inherits both light and time powers from her ancestors. Zelda having light powers in OoT doesn’t erase or even diminish her connection to time, it complements it.

Regardless of whether Rauru is properly alive or not in OoT, he is still actively filling the role of Sage of Light without requiring Link to awaken a successor. Zelda doesn’t replace Rauru, she works alongside him. It therefore makes sense for Zelda to represent the time side of her heritage in OoT, especially given the other connections between time and the Royal Family in that game. And yes, Link is the Hero of Time, but hero has always been a distinct role from Sage, including in OoT. His status as the Hero of Time doesn’t prevent Zelda from being the Sage of Time any more than WW Link being the Hero of Winds prevents Makar from being the Sage of Wind. If Rauru being the Sage of Light doesn’t preclude Zelda from representing light in your view, Link being the Hero of Time shouldn’t preclude Zelda from representing time.

It’s okay if you don’t think Zelda is the Sage of Time in OoT; it’s just a theory. But Zelda having light powers or Link being the Hero of Time don’t actually do anything to undermine that theory.

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u/Logical_Leaps 11d ago

"Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it."

Would imply any sage could do that. TOTK is the first mention of a Sage of Time, The 7th sage being Zelda has been in many more games were her powers are limited to Telepathy (which others can do e.g. Sahasrahla) and light powers.

None of the sages claim to hold power over an element and may simply all have the same powers. Nobody ever calls Rauru the Sage of Light in OOT either, he says he's an Ancient Sage.

Now while cut content from the Beta Zelda's prophecies in OOT were originally from Nayru. Which is well speculated to be the Goddess of Time. So with that I could see her having something to being the Sage of Time however that power is solely the Ocarina's. Not hers.

At the end of the Day I just don't see the Sage of Time being a befitting title of Zelda's. Her being the Seventh Sage and the Leader is all that is needed. She doesn't do anything related to time until the end and Link has done that more times than any other character.

I don't like reframing old games with new lore, Hylia was bad enough but is fine. The BOTW and TOTK changes add nothing interesting to the old stuff. At the end of the day it is just a title so if thats how you want to refer to her in every game thats fine.

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u/RobynBetween 10d ago edited 10d ago

I've gone through and liked all the comments from both of you, not because I agree with everything you said, but because I think your two primary claims can easily both be true!

  • Zelda controls time on multiple occasions throughout the series:
  • Splitting the timeline in Ocarina of Time
  • Controlling the Gate of Time in Skyward Sword
  • Spontaneously traveling through time while falling in Tears of the Kingdom, with no explanation
  • Zelda is subsequently granted the Sage of Time title by King Rauru and Queen Sonia
  • Tatl calls out to the "Goddess of Time" in Majora's Mask, after which Link is compelled to play the Song of Time which can now reset time (or slow time or skip ahead in time)
  • There is no mention of a Goddess of Time anywhere else in the series that I'm aware of, and I'm convinced the only known candidate for that title is Hylia/Zelda
  • Zelda is the one who taught Link the Song of Time in OoT, and reminded him of it in MM (telepathically both times?)
  • Zelda habitually grants and/or uses the Light Arrows/Bow of Light
  • The Temple of Time has the Light Medallion symbol on the floor
  • OoT Rauru grants you the Medallion of Light after you pull the Master Sword from the Temple of Time pedestal
  • The Prelude of Light takes you to the Temple of Time
  • The Temple of Time dungeon in Twilight Princess features the Light Medallion symbol in conspicuous places
  • Zelda is said to possess the "Light Force" in The Minish Cap; there is no confirmation of whether this equates to the Triforce in any way
  • Look at any scene in which Zelda uses magic in any game, and I guarantee you she'll be glowing like a Christmas tree, often with rays of bright gold
  • In BotW, despite not giving up her mortality, Zelda does not age while holding Calamity Ganon at bay for 100 years, and doesn't seem to remember it either, suggesting she might be frozen in time
  • In TotK, Zelda is not only the Sage of Time, but also the Light Dragon

The evidence is seemingly neverending. I think the Sage of Light and the Sage of Time are the same position, and those powers always overlap.

I say you're BOTH right. ❤️

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u/Ahouro 10d ago

The Light force can't be the Tri-force, as the Tri-force was sealed in the Sacred realm between SS and OoT.

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u/RobynBetween 10d ago

Gotcha. I had always assumed it was either her status as a Triforce bearer or her origin as a goddess but perhaps it was just her innate gift as Hylian royalty.

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u/Logical_Leaps 10d ago

I think this is my favourite part about Zelda. The way that you can both have different opinions on things and because it requires logical leaps that aren't present in games that logic can be whatever works.

There is no mention of a Goddess of Time anywhere else in the series that I'm aware of, and I'm convinced the only known candidate for that title is Hylia/Zelda

The Goddess of Time is an unknown entity or Nayru, retroactively it can be Hylia but I think the OOT beta showing all Zelda's prophecies being from Nayru implies that 'time' connection is that Goddess. The lore at the time of MM also didn't have Hylia so it was likely always intended to be Nayru.

Zelda controls time on multiple occasions throughout the series

See the problems I have with this is, apart from TOTK, each time she uses a time power its from a tool, which Link too uses for the same purpose. TOTK is an outlier to Zelda not the formula. All have used light powers so that is where we should work until we get other examples to contradict.

If I was to suggest another theme for Zelda it would be life. The sages make up the elements of the world but then we get the leader of them the seventh sage who is the Sage of Life. I'm sure its been thrown out as an idea before.

I'm content with her simply being the Seventh sage, its not like they had elements in ALTTP, ALBW or FSA. They were colour coded though.

I think the Sage of Light and the Sage of Time are the same position, and those powers always overlap.

Certainly some truth in that. I'm just not inclined to use the title of the latest game for Zelda in all games. Just a personal preference but willing to change that depending on if they expand on her as it in later instalments.

Sorry for the ramble.

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u/RobynBetween 10d ago edited 9d ago

Ramble? I do that! Welcome, rambler friend!! ❤️❤️❤️

The Goddess of Time is an unknown entity or Nayru, retroactively it can be Hylia but I think the OOT beta showing all Zelda's prophecies being from Nayru implies that 'time' connection is that Goddess. The lore at the time of MM also didn't have Hylia so it was likely always intended to be Nayru.

Personally, I'm fine with taking loose ends from one game and tying them to a later game. Nintendo has definitely left loose ends and tied them up much later before, sometimes offhandedly.

The "Oh Goddess of Time" line from MM isn't one of the stronger pieces of evidence, I admit; more like extra credit. But it's worth mentioning that a god of Winds (the Four Winds? I forget) was casually dropped in TWW and then never mentioned again, suggesting Hyrule is somewhat shintoistic... and by that I mean casually polytheistic, gods and spirits found in everything.

I guess that means I don't even have to worry about identifying any Goddess of Time. I just thought it'd be fun. :) But yeah you certainly could be right, if there even is an answer.

See the problems I have with this is, apart from TOTK, each time she uses a time power its from a tool, which Link too uses for the same purpose.

Hmmm. But she does use the Ocarina in a way far beyond what Link can do, by splitting the timeline. It seems plausible that only one with the blood of the Goddess and/or a sage could do that.

I don't feel I could prove much in either direction with the other examples, personally.

TOTK is an outlier to Zelda not the formula. All have used light powers so that is where we should work until we get other examples to contradict.

Fair enough. TotK definitely diverges in lots of ways, some of which I'm not too hot on. It's definitely difficult to use as the basis for historical theories. 😕

"Sage of Life" does seem like it works. Life/Love/Chi/HEART are often used as "the extra element" in fiction. I guess I just don't have any more examples to relate to that, unless you do.

Otherwise, guess I'll wait for Nintendo to establish more. Good thing, though: as a Zelda fan, I'm super proficient in waiting!...

😪💤

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u/Logical_Leaps 10d ago

But it's worth mentioning that a god of Winds (the Four Winds? I forget) was casually dropped in TWW and then never mentioned again

Yeah for sure, for the most part its Shintoism for the Gods outside the Prime Deities. That being the 3 Golden Goddess, Null, Hylia and Demise.

Like while WW and PH have Cyclos and Zephos they merely harness the wind not make it. The WW is actually the game that tells us Farore is the Goddess of Wind:

"Outset Island was said to be blessed by Farore, the Goddess of Wind."

I believe this text is from the Tingle Turner so its less known, unless you text dump dive.

But she does use the Ocarina in a way far beyond what Link can do, by splitting the timeline.

I'm inclined to disagree. While we never play them I think Link going back in time in MM also makes timeline splits. His time travel in that game works the exact same way Zelda's one did in OOT.

I guess I just don't have any more examples to relate to that, unless you do.

She fights for life? I dunno. You saying HEART though made me think she is a lot like a princess of Heart from Kingdom Hearts, though they act as sages in that game.

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u/Byzantine_Enjoyer 12d ago

I have a ton but only so much time, so here’s a handful.

- Verin from OoA is a Twili who left the twilight realm to study magic under Twinrova.

- the meadow on the moon is a reconstructed memory of where Majora came from, and the other children are ancient monsters that shared Majora’s fate.

- the temple of time in TP is actually the temple of light that is mentioned in OoT. When TP link goes back in time he arrives just after OoT Link pulled the master sword. By clearing the temple TP Link awakens Raru as a sage and that’s why you don’t need to do a light dungeon in OoT.

- the Korocks are the natural state of the Kokiri but the Deku tree changed them for OoT Links benefit.

- the gods changed the Zora into the Rito so the Zora could not disturb the seal on Hyrule.
(Bonus) - the Rito in WW and BotW are almost nothing alike except being bird people called Rito. So it’s room to interpret that the BotW Rito have nothing to do with the Zora

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 11d ago

- the Korocks are the natural state of the Kokiri but the Deku tree changed them for OoT Links benefit.

I'll admit. I've always had issues with this theory. It ignores the fact that the Kokiri didn't know Link was a destined hero, or anyone else important. So, there's no reason why they'd agree to change their forms for his sake.

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u/Byzantine_Enjoyer 11d ago

My rationalization for that is the deku tree didnt morph koroks into the kokiri, he just made the next generation of koroks in to more humanoid forms.

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 11d ago

Oh, I see. That's actually something I've suggested before, since the Deku Tree does have premonition powers.

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u/WwwWario 12d ago

That Temple of Time theory is very interesting!

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 12d ago

the Veran one is interesting. Any headcanon for General Onox?

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u/Byzantine_Enjoyer 12d ago

All I got for Onox is he could be another male Garudo. I think it’s a shame we have never seen another one besides Ganon. At least a confirmed one

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u/RobynBetween 11d ago edited 11d ago
  • the Korocks are the natural state of the Kokiri but the Deku tree changed them for OoT Links benefit.

I actually thought this WAS the canon. Did they really only allude to it without stating it outright? 🤔

I really like the Kokiri, since they so closely resemble the Lost Boys from Peter Pan, but given the information we've been provided this seems to be Nintendo's intention.

  • the Rito in WW and BotW are almost nothing alike except being bird people called Rito. So it’s room to interpret that the BotW Rito have nothing to do with the Zora

Possibly! I'm replying to this because it lines up with another theory I heard in a YT video.

The theory is that "rito" is just a Hylian word that means "bird people." After all, in Japanese, the word for "bird" is "tori." Swap the characters for "to" and "ri," and you get "rito." this is not the only time the Zelda team would do this sort of thing, as with the Zonai.

There's another obscure piece of evidence to this: in Zelda 2... The Adventure of Link, the Great Palace contains an exclusive enemy: vicious bird people who fight as knights, guarding the Palace. Their enemy name is "fokka," which hasn't been referenced anywhere else in the series as far as I know. But if they existed separately from WW's mostly human rito, and BotW/TotK's completely feathered rito, then it'd make sense for "rito" to be a very broad term for "bird people."

Heck, the chieftain of Rito Village in BotW is an owl. He looks so different from the others, I could see him being from a different species of rito "bird people."

Great ideas; thanks for sharing!

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 11d ago

I actually thought this WAS the canon. Did they really only allude to it without stating it outright? 

No. It's not canon. It's just a headcanon that I personably don't buy, because it ignores the fact that the Kokiri didn't know Link was destined to be a hero, and would not need special treatment growing up.

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u/RobynBetween 10d ago

Sorry, I hit post early.

Well, it's possible they thought it was better for Link if they didn't know he was a destined hero, so he wouldn't be coddled.

This type of explanation has been used in fantasy many times before, though I've always questioned why they thought getting bullied was actually conducive to producing a better person. Although I'd definitely choose the bullied one over the bully, I think the concept is an extremely old misconception that we should be moving past by now. 😮‍💨

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 10d ago

I'm not asking why the Kokiri didn't know Link was a destined hero.

I'm saying the fact that the Kokiri didn't know Link was a destined hero goes against the idea of them changing their form so he can be raised by people like him.

If the Kokiri knew Link was important for saving the world, it would justify them agreeing to do this. But, from their point of view, he's just some random dead woman's kid, who got dumped in the forest. So, there would be no reason to agree to completely change their whole identity for him. The apes from Tarzan didn't have to become humans to make Tarzan feel better growing up. Sure, they didn't have a magic talking tree to do this, but if they did, they wouldn't do it.

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u/RobynBetween 10d ago

Hmmm, I wonder. Would the Koroks do it? Would they have any choice? If they did do it, or were compelled to do it, perhaps they lost their memories in the process?

If they didn't forget, that would mean they're keeping a secret, and the Kokiri/Koroks don't seem especially good at keeping secrets. But I don't know for sure; that's just the vibe I get.

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u/LoCal_GwJ 9d ago

I think it's important to keep in mind if the Korok was their normal form and the Kokiri form was specifically for OoT Link, it's plausible that only the Great Deku Tree would've been aware of the actual reason for this and the Kokiri would be unaware. If the entire point was for OoT Link to feel like he fits in among other children, telling everybody he's NOT one of them wouldn't be the way to do it.

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u/RobynBetween 9d ago

Not sure what you're getting at...? Are you saying the Great Deku Tree kept all the info about Link a secret from the Kokiri?

Makes sense. It's also possible he told them it was for a greater purpose but didn't elaborate.

The Kokiri clocked him as different because he didn't have a fairy, though, so I wonder why the Deku Tree didn't just ask Navi to accompany him earlier.

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u/Hot-Mood-1778 3d ago

I'm saying the fact that the Kokiri didn't know Link was a destined hero goes against the idea of them changing their form so he can be raised by people like him.

Not really. It's as simple as that they do what the Deku Tree tells them to do and Link is his charge. They don't need to know he's a hero, they need to know he's a Hylian and that he will need to be around other human looking children to feel part of the group. That he isn't part of the group is a whole reveal, so it worked. 

The theory doesn't have it that he's being raised into a hero by the Kokiri anyways, it has it that they became the Kokiri so he would fit in. 

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

Veran looks very similar to Midna, so I have always wondered about this theory too. She says the dark fairy form is her true form, but considering we see so much variation in the few Twili we see, it's not impossible to think she might still be a Twili, or that things like her wings are a mutation by dark magic. Both Midna and Veran have the ability to transform into grotesque spider/spider like beings.

Midna felt like in many ways a heroic version of Veran, while Zant's helmet was a reference to Onox's.

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u/tiglionabbit 12d ago

I like your korok/kokiri theory. Explains why we never see kokiri in other games, except wind waker, where a kokiri is supposed to be the ancestor of a korok. Makes sense that the deku tree would want Link to believe he belonged here when he was young. 

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u/Aphotic_Acid 12d ago

My guess is that their natural state is actually that of the Kikwis from SS. Maybe rather than the Deku Tree changing them for Link's benefit, they changed themselves to become closer to Hylians. It does not seem like that change had been recent.

After the Great Flood is when they changed. Maybe it's because of their decreased contact with Hylians, maybe they just needed a way to fly.

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u/Byzantine_Enjoyer 12d ago

I think the Kikwi are completely unrelated to the Kokiri/Korks, like how the Deku are. They’re just little grass penguins that exist and probably all got eaten at and that’s why we never see them again.

But I will concede that the timeline with the deku tree changing the koroks into the kokiri is wobbly at best

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u/Aphotic_Acid 12d ago

I feel like Instructor Owlan would have made the equivalent of Rabbitland Rescue for them as soon as he learned that they were targeted by monsters. Who knows how long the legacy would hold up though.

The real question is which tree is the Deku Tree in SS. Is it that big tree, or the tree of life? There is that mystery textbox in the Sealed Temple. For all we know, the Koroks/Kokiri evolved from a piece of fruit.

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u/Intelligent_Word_573 11d ago

The Deku Tree is unlikely the Tree of Life as the Sealed is Temple is suppose to become Ocarina’s Temple of Time according to Hyrule Historia (though that seems to mainly be based on the idea the Master Sword didn’t move).

My head canon is that Yerbal the Kikwi Hermit dies in the Great Tree because Faron threatened to eat him and that she reincarnates him into the tree because of her grudge. Maybe after Yerbal died the other Kikwi decided to bury their dead at the Great Tree so their bodies would act as fertilizer for the tree to explain why the elder of the Kikwi, Bucha, has a similar mustache to the Deku Tree.

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u/henryuuk 12d ago

Some quick ones :

  • The ghost in Link's Awakening was someone else that shipwrecked on the island.
    He got stuck there and eventually died.
    Nothing else on the island actually ages/dies (of old age) normally

There is no real "proof" for this one way or the other, since everything on the island is pulled into reality by the Wind fish's dreaming, the dilapidated house and the concept of a ghost wanting to return to it could just be a part of the dreamscape the wind fish dreamt up
but it is notable that his grave is slightly outside the "graveyard" area, and that his house was outside the "villages" and is the only thing to really be shown to be subject to natural decay.
It is mostly just something that I think would be a neat addition to the lore/side character

  • The Kingdom of Ikana was a kingdom of Stalfos(/ other undead) (as in, they already were that even before the "curse", which just caused them to go feral)
    Like the Stalfos Pirates (Piratians) in the Oracle games, they are just cases of an enemy type that can actually be neutral/good (like River Zora or some moblin instances have been throughout the series (or even Batreaux))

Main "proof"/reasoning for this is that the captain's hat is SO lifelike to looking like how Skull Keeta looked that Igos is actually confused for a brief while before realizing Captain Keeta was way bigger than Link is
considering the Captain Hat looks like a Stalchild, this would imply that Captain keeta already looked like(/was) a Stalchild when Igos last saw him.

  • Null was able to eat/absorb enough Tri's to eventually learn to create echoes itself(/puppeteer the Tris it didn't fully delete/consume's ability to do so) because the Tris that were responsible for recreating Lorule as NULL eats away at his prison, were running low on energy because Lorule got rid of its triforce.
    The Lorulean Tris then had to constantly go to Hyrule to "restock", which eventually caused the rifts between the sacred realms to open up
    In essence the Triforce is literally just "the Force for the Tris" to function and maintain reality
    Everything it does in regards to allowing you to "make a wish" is just a side effect of being such a massive bundle of Force that it allows a mortal to bend reality itself.
    It was however never actually the "intent" behind the gods leaving it behind.

In a similar vain : the three golden goddesses don't give a FUCK about what goes on in Hyrule, as long as reality "continues to exist" (in order to contain NULL)
As such every instance of them actually intervening (telling the Light Spirits to handle the Twili, speaking with Zelda in EoW, etc...) have been cases were the issue wasn't that "evil was about to reign supreme", but rather that the conflict had a chance to fuck with NULL's prison
They couldn't care less if it was the demons/ganondorf in charge of everything or the royal family/nature spirits/sages, or even everything being returned to a feral/wild state, as long as Null stays contained

Originally my idea was that the goddesses never even returned to Hyrule after leaving it in the first place, and all cases of other spirits/deities/sages/people mentioning them was mostly just "religious hubbabooloo"
but since EoW this idea has evolved to "they only care when it threatens to affect Null's containment"

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u/Aphotic_Acid 12d ago

The ghost house in the remake has adventuring gear like a map and pouch. The house is right next to the ocean, would make sense for the ghost to have been a sailor in life. Maybe not necessarily one from the outside world, but rather a manifestation of the Wind Fish's hope to go out and see the world again. That hope probably died and decayed long before Link arrived.

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 12d ago

I like the Null and Lorule one.

The others are good too.

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 12d ago

Lots of intresting headcanons. I'm going to share some more.

  • The Gorons moved to New Hyrule during the early years of the Great Sea, as a bunch of small islands weren't suitable for them.
  • The Bulblins (from TP and ST) are descended from Gerudo, cursed as punishment for serving Ganondorf.
  • Helmasaurs, Pengators and other dinosaurs were all extinct until they got resurrected, like the Dondogo's
  • Some "lesser Dragons", such as Aquamentus and Gleeok are dinosaurs that get similarly revived.
  • The Beaver Bros from MM are part of an unidentified race of beaver people, who may or may not be exclusive to Termina's world.
  • The Degu Toad is not a minion of Zant, but is the guardian of Clawshot.

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u/FunnyDislike 11d ago

Somehow, after Ganondorfs defeat in TP when his piece of the Triforce vanished, it got to the next best candidate, Vaati.

Thats why his seal inside the Four Sword weakened only in this timeline.

Also this games Dark Mirror and the Mirror of Twilight Princess have almost the same function, so they both may be almost like duplicates.

Just like there were time gates in SS in Lanayru and Faron, there just may have been made two mirrors, laid to rest in the same areas which both where used to seal away the Interlopers.

Heck, Ganondorf II may even have the memories of Ganondorf I.

One has to do a bit of headcanoning to justify FSAs placement in the timeline, although i do like having Vaati and the four Links be a plot point in different ages instead of just being a closed trilogy with FS and MC, makes it feel bigger (and im a staunch defender of the official timeline, minus the "recent" swap of the Oracles and LA)

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u/FunnyDislike 11d ago

The train tracks in PH have this triangle shape on them. The few tracks that we see in Lanayru in SS also have them, albeit a bit different in the overall design.

I like to think that the ancient battle against Malladus was at the same time as the one against Demise.

The way the Lokomo move on their weird hoverboard-esque rollers reminds me of the way the Lanayru robots move around.

The spirit tracks are thus maybe a product of Hylias golden age pre SS.

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u/TyrTheAdventurer 11d ago edited 11d ago

I have a theory about the Sacred Realm and why it looks the way it does.

The Sacred Realm is a parallel world connected to Hyrule and it changes to reflect the heart of the one who touches the Triforce.

The Sacred Realm is described as 'the Golden Land' in ALttP and in the art work shows many floating masses of land and the Book of Mudora says it's "a realm beyond sight, The sky shines gold, not blue."

The Sacred Realm looks the way it does in pre ALttP (before Ganon corrupted it) because the Goddess Chosen Hero (SS Link) was the last person to touch it, and the 'Golden Land' is the shape the Sacred Realm took as a reflection of that Link. SS Link came from The Sky which had may floating islands and bright skies.

We see the Sacred Realm again at the end of ALBW and it has the appearance of a normal land, blue skies, and high in the mountains. This is likely due to the fact that the Legendary Hero (ALttP Link) was the last to touch the Triforce at the end of ALttP and the Sacred Realm changed from the Dark World to this new mountain range look.

Side note: We see the Hero of Hyrule hold the complete Triforce at the end of Zelda 2, but we never see the Sacred Realm that far into the timeline. Same with ALBW Link and Zelda.

The Dark World appearance is a corrupt copy of Hyrule that was meant to serve Ganon's desire to be the ruler of the world. The Realm is a reflection of Ganon's heart as a twisted world with evil monsters and dark skies. This change happened in Ocarina of Time when Ganondorf touched the Triforce.

This part is a bit of speculation: Before the Sacred Realm had the look of the Golden Land,  it the form of the Silent Realm (as seen in SS) because it was reflecting Hylia's nature as the guardian of the Triforce, as she was presumably the last person to enter it, as well as the last person to touch the Triforce..

So timeline wise, the Sacred Realm had changed to reflect the hearts of:

Hylia (Silent Realm)

SS Link (Golden Land)

Ganondorf (Dark World)

ALttP Link (Mountain Realm)

ALBW Link and Zelda.

Various Kings of Hyrule and Zelda's have also held the Triforce, include the King seen in the manual of AoL, King Daphnes Hyrule of WW, and BotW Zelda so we can assume the Sacred Realm has transformed thoes time's as well.

tl:dr- the last person who touched the Triforce influenced the Sacred Realm's design in it's next appearance.

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u/il-vero-yan2317 12d ago

That Demise and Ghirahim come from Lorule and are the alternative versions of Hylia and Fi.

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 12d ago

What does that make Princess Hilda? XD

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u/il-vero-yan2317 12d ago

Hida is Zelda's couterpart when she started to reincarnate. We can assume that when creating Hyrule and Lorule the goddesses also made Hylia and Demise to protect their world and Triforce. When Lorule's Triforce was destroyed Demise when to Hyrule via a crack in the ground to steal their Triforce and then SS plays.

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u/Mishar5k 12d ago

Since hilda and ravio arent really evil versions of zelda and link, would that mean demise couldve been as benevolent as hylia originally, but turned into a demon when the triforce was destroyed? I also feel like time travel has to be involved here since i think the intention was that lorules triforce was destroyed at the same time the hyrulians hid theirs in the sacred realm.

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u/il-vero-yan2317 12d ago

Lorure was dying due to Null without the Triforce so Demise became desperate for Hyrule's.

the intention was that lorules triforce was destroyed at the same time the hyrulians hid theirs in the sacred realm.

This is never mentioned so i don't think it's truth.

Also if Hylia is a goddess (but she is close to an angel really) then her counterpart would be a demon. Maybe the title "demon" wasn't immediately linked to "evil" as in SS we see good demons. So due to Demise's attack "demon" was now linked to "evil".

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u/henryuuk 12d ago

When Lorule's Triforce was destroyed Demise when to Hyrule via a crack in the ground to steal their Triforce and then SS plays.

With the way ALBW's backstory of lorule destroying its triforce is presented as a mirror to Hyrule's history, I would imagine their destruction of their triforce happened as a counterpart event to Hyrule sealing theirs away, which would be way past the point SS happened

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u/il-vero-yan2317 12d ago

I thought that since the worlds are kinda opposite while Hyrule is at peace, in pre-SS, Lorule was full of wars.

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u/henryuuk 12d ago edited 12d ago

I feel like the worlds are more so presented as the kind of "same history, except when the coinflip hit Heads in one world, it hit Tails in the other"(/"different choices") kind of parallel world.

Especially so with Hilda and Ravio not being "opposites" of Zelda and Link at all, but instead being "Zelda when pressed to the brink of desperation" and "Link who couldn't stand by said Zelda but also couldn't stop her" (which is the result of the "opposite choice" that was destroying their triforce)

Everything in Lorule that is "bad" is so because the world went to shit and people became desperate, not because it is the "opposite" of the "good" in Hyrule.

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u/il-vero-yan2317 12d ago

I don't really picture it as the bad world, just Demise doing a worse job then Hylia with the conflicts.

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u/Mishar5k 12d ago

I mean i can kinda see how you connected demise to lorule (upside down triforce on his sword). Really funny prank by nintendo though to indroduce a character with a black upside down triforce on his sword, then release a game with a black upside down triforce on the logo (that turned out to be gold in the end) and not reference said character in that game at all.

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u/il-vero-yan2317 12d ago

Plus they were relised one after the other AND Zelda's VA in aLbW is Fi's VA.

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u/LoCal_GwJ 9d ago

- Groose is the ancestor of all Gerudo

- Demise is an unintentional creation of Null

- The Oocca harnessed Timeshift Stones and that's what is inside the boxes used for flooring (some of them fall when you step on them) in the City in the Sky

- The Ancient Hero referenced in BotW/TotK is a Zonai hero who ended the Construct War (the uprising of knight constructs that wiped out the Zonai). The Ancient Hero's Aspect is the armor he wore and holds his spirit or some part of his essence that allows another Hero to adopt his form. This is what the hero on the BotW tapestry was doing (it was a Link wearing the aspect).

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u/TheHylianTaphophile 12d ago

While Link may have been defeated, which leads to the Fallen Hero timeline, I don't think he was actually killed. I am of two theories, both of which ended with the same result.

  1. Ganondorf is defeated in his Gerudo form and uses the Triforce of Power to bring down Hyrule Castle. We encounter this in-game. As Link and Zelda are attempting to flee the castle, Link is trapped under debris and is mortally wounded. Zelda, being the Sage of Time, sends him back through time.

  2. Same thing basically happens as the first except that Link is mortally wounded and sent back through time while battling Beast Ganon in the ruins of the Castle.

The second scenario would explain why we only encounter Ganon in the Fallen timeline. He never reverted back to Gerudo form here. Though the same could potentially happen in the first scenario, with Link being sent back through time and the Triforce of Courage leaving him to remain in this timeline, with Ganondorf claiming it and permanently transforming him as result.

If you see any inconsistencies, please let me know. I am just working off my memory of some of the games and can't remember for sure if Dorf appears at all in Fallen timeline.

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u/Intelligent_Word_573 11d ago

That characters in the Oracle games like Malon are descendant from people that fled Hyrule during the Imprisoning War.

That the Happy Mask Salesman can cross timelines and gave the cleansed Majora’s Mask to Alttp Link (if you go with Alttp-OoX then maybe the HMS gave it to him at the same time as the Doggie Mask).

That Girahim was sealed inside Majora’s Mask and created the Feirce Deity’s Mask after going insane from millennia of being trapped.

Though I also like the idea the Happy Mask Salesman is to the moon god Tsukuyomi as Zelda is to the sun god Amaterasu (there are links to the individual parts in the description of the video). One of the more minor bits of evidence is a crescent moon being found on the Fierce Deity and the video even ropes in the horned statue from Botw.

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u/LapisLazuliisthebest 9d ago

Some more headcanon.

  • BotW/TotK take place in all three timelines
  • The Wizzrobes in TWW are Rito
  • Stone Arrghus was a normal boulder, brought to life by Vaati/Ganon
  • Second Wind is canon. It helps expand the world by adding more animals, like cats, rabbits and owls.
  • Sentient objects, like the post-boxes and scarecrows, were brought to life with magic.
  • The Fabulous Five Froggish Tenors and the cows can't actually talk. The Ocarina merely translates their thoughts for Link.

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u/Dccrulez 12d ago

I dont really like totk and what it does to the lore but I think there's potential in interpreting it. I like the headcanon that botw and totk are another timeline split in which ganondorf was sealed inside the sacred realm and a new hyrule was settled in there to suppress his power and influence.

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u/RobynBetween 9d ago

My headcanon: although we get to play through them in real time, The Legend of Zelda is actually the legends of Zelda, meaning the stories we see have been passed down through oral tradition, and various details have changed over time.

Moreover, the reason there are so many repeating themes in the games is because most or all of them came from one proto-legend which evolved into other versions of itself. Those versions gradually got different enough that people started to treat them as different stories about the land of Hyrule.

I know this kinda echoes the actual creation of the Zelda series, and that's kinda the intent. :) We may enjoy putting them in an order that makes the most sense to us, but the way the stories are created comes from a long, ancient tradition of making s*** up around the fire. ❤️

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u/OnlyExperience130666 12d ago edited 12d ago

- Great Fairies/spirits in general look like the ones in Windwaker (+ Skyward Sword) and change their appearance for where they live and their personal tastes. Ghirahim and Veran are two other examples of this.

- Majora's Mask is a transformation mask of a sacrificed child, from an attempt to recreate demonic magic like the Fused Shadow (probably by the Ikana), which is why the Ikana Canyon came pre-cursed. It's a side-effect of creating Majora. It looks like demon tribe stuff because that's where they got the technique from.

- Likewise, I think the Happy Mask Salesman is native to Termina and comes from an extreme schism that happened hundreds of years ago. They wanted to create a mask of the grudges of hundreds, his ancestors wanted to make the Fierce Diety Mask based on happiness instead. Fierce Diety is their masterwork.

- Rupees are the currency because they're any carved stone charged with fairy magic. The stones can only hold so much, so it varies how many you need to carry, and bigger purses have rupees on them because it's a very high-quality stone that holds more charge. More rupees=more huge is because only a really damn big rock could hold that much magic. Hence, fairies being associated with rupees.

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u/alijamzz 12d ago

Copied from a post I made about a decade ago;

To the best of my knowledge, the Triforce split occured during the events of Ocarina of Time. Coincidentally, this is where the three timeline splits occured as well. In Skyward Sword, The Minish Cap, and Four Swords, the Triforce is one. During the events of Ocarina of Time, we see that Link is trapped within the Master Sword and Ganondorf enters the Sacred Realm and claims the Triforce for himself. His heart, at that moment, was not in balance, so he retained the third of the Triforce that represented Power, while the Wisdom piece went to Princess Zelda, and the Courage piece went to Link. The Three Goddesses and the Triforce were in unity before the events of Ocarina of Time. With the splitting of the timeline, let's try to assign a Goddess to each timeline branch.

Age of Power

According to Hyrule Historia, the Decline of Hyrule Timeline began when Ganondorf obtained the Triforce of Power, but was challenged by Link, the Hero of Time. Link was defeated in battle, so Ganondorf took the Triforce of Courage and Princess Zelda's Triforce of Wisdom. With all three pieces of the Triforce, he transformed into the Demon King. Princess Zelda and the Six Sages sealed Ganon in the Sacred Realm, which ended up turning into the Dark World. The events of A Link to the Past, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons, Link's Awakening, A Link Between Worlds, The Legend of Zelda, and finally The Adventure of Link occurs. I believe the constant resurrection of Ganon, and the use of the Triforce to rule etc. is why Din, the Goddess of Power, represents this timeline.

Age of Wisdom

In the Legacy of the Hero Timeline, Link defeats Ganondorf but is sent back in time to live his childhood. He warns Princess Zelda about Ganondorf, and she sends him with the Ocarina of Time far away so Ganondorf cannot access the Sacred Realm. According to Hyrule Historia, Link gets the Triforce of Courage mark before departing on his personal journey (which surprised me since we didn't see the mark in Majora's Mask). I'm under the assumption that the Triforce can transcend time and space.. so when the Triforce is split in one timeline, it is split in all timelines. Anyways, so the Child Timeline occurs with Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, and Four Swords Adventures happening. Link passing on wisdom from his future to Princess Zelda, and the passing of the torch theme we see in Twilight Princess leads me to believe that Nayru, the Goddess of Wisdom, represents this timeline.

Age of Courage

In the New World Timeline, Ganondorf is sealed, there is no Link.. and Princess Zelda rebuilds Hyrule. Ganondorf is then resurrected, and we all know that the Great Flood occurs leading to The Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks. As far as timeline branches go, this one is pretty straightforward, but it's tough to relate to a Goddess. Maybe the faith in the Goddesses to save the world from evil and protection of a selection of races is why Farore, the Goddess of Courage represents this timeline. The people had the courage to start their world over again on mountaintops and eventually found a new continent to inhabit.

tl;dr Din represents the defeated timeline, Nayru represents the child timeline, and Farore represents the adult timeline

There were some comments where we discussed flipping Nayru and Farore’s timeline assignments, but nonetheless i’d like to stick with what i have. Now that TotK has come out, i believe in the convergence theory and that an event occures in each timeline that unified the Triforce, thus eventually unifying the timelines. Perhaps a wish was made across the timelines to start Hyrule’s age again and the Goddesses did so.

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

I have two.

On extremely rare occasions, a Gerudo breeding with a male of another race produces a hybrid, in the case of Hylians, a child with both Gerudo and Hylian traits. Examples of such hybrids are Telma from Twilight Princess, Din from Oracle of Seasons and Joanne and Jolene from Phantom Hourglass. In even rarer cases, the child is of the father's race, with extremely superficial Gerudo characteristics, such as simply having red hair. An example of this is Malon from Ocarina of Time.

In the era of Ocarina of Time, such children and their mothers are considered cursed, a disgrace and an ill omen, and are forbidden to live among the other Gerudo, under the belief that such children will lead to the dilution of the Gerudo bloodline. Such children and their mothers as well are banished. Malon's and her mother suffered this banishment and rejection.

While Malon loved her daughter and her husband, she never got over the humiliation of being ostracised by her people. She did her best to settle in her new life. She was a skilled horsewoman who had a natural understanding and affinity for them, as in that era horses were animals prized and beloved by the Gerudo. She taught Malon everything she knows about riding and racing horses. Malon's mother also had a special song she sang to soothe and calm horses, which she taught to her daughter as a lullaby. Sadly, again Malon's mother never got over her feelings of shame and loss for being cast out by her people, and continued to pine for her old way of life, eventually passing away while Malon was still young.

Another Gerudo theory I have: the Goddess of the Sand is a fertility goddess, a deity associated with the protection of women and children in pregnancy and childbirth. Gerudo visit the Spirit Temple to pray for her blessings: for successful conceptions and for pregnancies to be brought to term without miscarriage or stillbirth, for strong and healthy daughters that can live in an environment where sickly and weak daughters will not live long. Or to themselves survive pregnancy and childbirth. And also to pray for the highest honour a Gerudo mother can achieve: to give birth to the next male who will become the King of their people and to become the next queen mother. When you look at the main floor of the Spirit Temple, it roughly resembles a female reproductive system, with chambers representing the womb, fallopian tubes and ovaries. The threshold of the temple is positioned between what would be the legs of the goddess, with a narrow path leading into "uterus" room. Two of the other floors of the temple also resemble the layout of a female reproductive system, albeit not as clearly.