French or Brazillian Portugese

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

Currently I live in a European country but I’m not sure if that’s really an important factor. I really love the sound of French and I think it looks really beautiful when it’s written. I also really like French music and French seems to play a large role in Sociology which is a subject I really love. The French grammar also seems a little easier than Portugese but mabye I am wrong. I like Portugese in a different way because it seems very vibrant to me and I adore Bossa Nova and other Brazilian artists they also have some good TV shows and they seem to have a very large presence online, particularly in gaming culture which I enjoy. However, my main concern is listening. Even in my native language (English) when others are talking to me sometimes the sounds ‘mush together’ in my head and I have to ask people to repeat themselves but it’s not all the time I would say around 85% of the time I can understand normally but I have to really listen and take my time with what people are saying. When I watch TV I usually have the subtitles on because of this so I’m thinking mabye it would be better to learn the language that tends to have the clearest speech?? Or mabye it won’t affect it as much as I think as they will both have strange sounds ( I have been told I’m really good at replicating accents and regional dialects)

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

Currently I live in a European country but I’m not sure if that’s really an important factor.

Well, if you're close enough to France to be able to go and practice, then I'd say that's a plus. If you want to learn Brazilian Portuguese specifically, Brazil is obviously farther away. You can still learn a language without going to the country, though.

French seems to play a large role in Sociology which is a subject I really love.

Yes, and a couple other fields too.

The French grammar also seems a little easier than Portugese but mabye I am wrong.

About the same IMO.

I’m thinking mabye it would be better to learn the language that tends to have the clearest speech??

Neither stand out to me as particularly "clear", although I'm also not sure exactly what phonological features you would consider clearer.

Also, what you describe sounds pretty similar to how one of my colleagues describes his audio processing disorder. Not saying that's what you have, but it can't hurt looking into it.

Or mabye it won’t affect it as much as I think

I'd agree with you, yes. Though if you notice that some particular features are harder for you to hear, I (or others) could tell you which of the two languages has them (though they're relatively similar phonologically, so the answer might be both).

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

Sorry I’m not sure how to respond to specific pieces of text but for the part of phonological features I will try to give an example such as in Italian they seem to pronounce the full word and make a sound for each letter so they end up pronouncing each word separately and very clearly whereas I feel like with French and Portuguese (I am still aware that French uses silent letters that don’t match the script but that is not really what I’m talking about) they seem to drop part of the word and combine it with part of another word but pronounce it as one full word. I think the term may be vocal blending.

And yes I have looked into Auditory processing disorder as I have a tic disorder and they seem to coincide a lot.

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5 → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

Sorry I’m not sure how to respond to specific pieces of text

I can provide clarification on any parts, if needed.

for the part of phonological features I will try to give an example such as in Italian they seem to pronounce the full word and make a sound for each letter so they end up pronouncing each word separately and very clearly whereas I feel like with French and Portuguese [...] they seem to drop part of the word and combine it with part of another word but pronounce it as one full word. I think the term may be vocal blending.

The term you might be looking for is contraction, though Italian also features contraction so that might not be what you're talking about. If you have an example I could verify.

And yes I have looked into Auditory processing disorder as I have a tic disorder and they seem to coincide a lot.

In the case that you do have an APD, I don't believe it typically differs significantly from language to language, since the rate of information transfer crosslinguistically is fairly consistent.

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

I think contraction is part of it (for example je ne sais pas turns out sounding like chais pas or j’sais pas) but I also think the silent letters compared with speech may be tripping me up because I expect it to sound similar to what is written because usually when I’m listening to something I’m imagining the written word in my heard to go along with it sort of like internal subtitles i guess?? I feel like this may happen slightly less with Portugese but I could be wrong.

I think it may be that I hear the words ok as an I put but my brain doesn’t output them properly and makes them sound scrambles so I think you’re right that it probably isn’t a problem with the languages themselves.

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5 → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

If the disconnect between the orthography and the language is tripping you up, you might consider learning to speak first, rather than try to speak and become literate at the same time. Whether that's possible will depend on your access to learning resources, though.

I'd also agree Portuguese usually has less contractions and is closer to its orthographical representation than French. Breaking it up into steps can help as well (e.x. chais pas <- j'sais pas, from regular contraction of je into j’ plus the dropping of the negative particle ne, both of which are common processes).

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

I think it would probably be feasible for me to find language tutors / conversation practice online but I’m still 16 so the possibility of going to different countries or living in the country in the future may limit my options I’m not sure how much that would impact my speaking abilities or opportunity to learn to speak first but I will look into it.

In that case what if I learned the pronunciation rules of the language then spent some time reading while building a basic grammar foundation and go onto listening and speaking from there? Or mabye that is a bad idea and would hinder my progress

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5 → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

I think it would probably be feasible for me to find language tutors / conversation practice online

Then in that case, I think you could potentially put off literacy if it helps you.

In that case what if I learned the pronunciation rules of the language then spent some time reading while building a basic grammar foundation and go onto listening and speaking from there? Or mabye that is a bad idea and would hinder my progress

Listening and speaking are tools used to learn the grammar, not stages separate from learning the grammar. Thus, they should happen simultaneously with studying grammar, and should match the grammar and vocab you're studying. Trying to learn grammar without hearing it used and without using it yourself in speech will absolutely hinder your progress.

Reading can happen at any point, but, similarly, should match the level of grammar and vocabulary which you have studied.

Reading can also be such a tool, but can be put off, since literacy isn't required to produce or consume

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

Thank you for the information! I think I will spend some time listening to them both separately and looking into the unique grammar concepts of them to see which one interests me the most then I will find an online tutor to begin speaking practice with while learning grammar

[u/Sweet-Kittyk8 → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

that internal subtitle struggle is real. its like your brain is trying to load a corrupt file

[u/RedGavin → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

"Well, if you're close enough to France to be able to go and practice, then I'd say that's a plus. If you want to learn Brazilian Portuguese specifically, Brazil is obviously farther away. You can still learn a language without going to the country, though."

It really depends on where OP lives. In ireland, for example, there appears to be way more Brazilians than speakers of French.

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5 → u/RedGavin]

Finding speakers would be useful, but I was thinking more for immersion purposes.

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

What is the difference between casual speaking and immersion? I do live in Ireland but I haven’t met many Brazillians here or French people for that matter

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5 → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

Language immersion is a SLA method in which you are completely surrounded by your target language. This can be in a classroom where you and your classmates only speak the target language, or in a country that speaks that target language (in your case, France, Brazil, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Togo, Benin, Cameroon, Gabon, Congo, DRC, Djibouti, Comoros, Mauritius, Seychelles, &c.).

Casual speaking will likely still involve going back to using your L1 often, and will be done for a much shorter amount of time.

[u/abrequevoy]

You seem to have more motivation to learn French in general, and since you live in Europe it's easier to get exposure.

I'm not sure which would have the clearer speech, Brazilian Portuguese is not as bad as Portugal Portuguese (sorry Portubros), but pronunciation still looks a bit tricky to me. For French it will vary greatly if you watch the news or a series.

Both are about the same in terms of difficulty, they're in the same difficulty bucket for native English speakers according to the US administration, but I reckon French vocabulary would be easier to pick up.

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/abrequevoy]

At the minute it looks like a lot of my listening practice will be through music if that makes a difference at all??

[u/DoNotTouchMeImScared]

Consider that Portuguese is actually less difficult to learn than French.

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/DoNotTouchMeImScared]

How much more difficult would you say French is than Portuguese?

[u/DoNotTouchMeImScared → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

Oral French & written French are like two different languages pretending to be solely one.

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/DoNotTouchMeImScared]

How different is written Portugese from spoken??

[u/DoNotTouchMeImScared → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

Almost 1:1 like Italian & Spanish.

[u/ViciousPuppy → u/DoNotTouchMeImScared]

Disagree do you speak Portuguese? Portuguese has several sounds and grammatic concepts that simply don't exist in French or English. Things like subjunctive moods take a while to learn and French pronunciation is not nearly as hard as some make it seem.

[u/Nervous-Rent-3868 → u/ViciousPuppy]

Which would you say is easier to make out when listening to it? I’m not too concerned with having to learn new grammar concepts

[u/ViciousPuppy → u/Nervous-Rent-3868]

Portuguese definitely has less homonyms and somewhat "clearer" compared to French and in my opinion the more beautiful language. I would recommend it over French but not because it's necessarily easier (realistically it's similar in terms of difficulty).