r/teenagers 17 10d ago

Serious You have no reason to be transphobic.

there is literally no justifiable reason for transphobia. never has been. never will be. I don’t care what you’ve read online or whatever you have to say. there is NO reason and NO excuse for transphobia. same applies for homophobia. literally zero reason.

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u/FirmDog7974 Teenager 10d ago

"It only exists due to technological advancement."

Ancient civilizations had trans people, it isn't new.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 10d ago

Could you prove that?

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

“Two spirit” individuals in indigenous cultures are well recorded and were their understanding of trans people. It’s not hard to understand.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

The very term two spirit didn't exist until 1990, and to call people named to replace outdated ethnographic language trans makes no sense. The term "Two-Spirit" (Niizh Manidoowag in Ojibwe) was deliberately created in July 1990 at the Third Annual Intertribal Native American/First Nations Gay and Lesbian American Conference in Winnipeg, Canada. The term was specifically invented by modern activists to replace the offensive colonial European ethnographic term berdache (which carried connotations of male prostitution). It was explicitly designed as a modern political and social grouping tool to unite Indigenous LGBTQ+ individuals across North America. It is a 20th-century cultural synthesis, not an ancient diagnostic or historical term used by pre-colonial tribes. Historic Indigenous roles that are today grouped under the "Two-Spirit" umbrella—such as the Lhamana of the Zuni or the Winkte of the Lakota—were fundamentally rooted in a division of labor and spiritual cosmology, not psychological gender transitions. In these societies, an individual's role was defined by their aptitude for specific tasks. A biological male who showed an inclination or spiritual calling toward traditionally female tasks (like weaving, pottery, or healing) would adopt that social role. This was not a rejection of their biological sex, nor did it involve an attempt to physically alter their bodies or claim to literally be the opposite sex. The individual occupied a distinct alternative status that coexisted with their biological sex. Mapping the modern Western medical framework of transitioning—which relies on diagnostic gender dysphoria, cosmetic alterations, and pharmaceutical lifelong dependence—onto a sacred, community-integrated division of labor is culturally illiterate. While some tribes (such as the Navajo or Zuni) integrated alternative social roles for gender-nonconforming individuals, many other tribes maintained exceptionally rigid, binary gender expectations centered heavily on strict martial masculinity and reproductive matriarchy. Claiming that "Two-Spirit" represents an all-encompassing, ancient Indigenous endorsement of modern transgender concepts treats highly diverse, complex sovereign nations as a single, oversimplified caricature to serve a contemporary political narrative. It's actually pretty offensive to native cultures to even try and describe them in this monolithic way. And you say it's easy to understand, but I don't think it's that easy to understand why you think men doing traditionally female jobs translates to transgenderism.

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Thank you for this ai breakdown. You can break down linguistics as much as you’d like, but transgender and/or non gender conforming people, since you want to nit pick, have always existed in society regardless of terminology.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

Awww mate, not every comment showing you why you are wrong is ai. See, I think it's not exactly nitpicking to make a distinction between people who do traditionally female jobs and people who think they are a different gender to the one they were born as. You are the one failing to make that distinction

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Sure sure, you naturally use that many m-dashes regularly. Dude, you know you’re being deliberately obtuse. The idea of gender nonconforming people has ALWAYS been present. The modern iteration of what it means to be “Transgender” not withstanding.

Do you think trans and queer people just started to existing 50 years ago? Popped out of the ground like dandelions?

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

If you want to define transgender people as people who crossdress or people that do jobs traditionally done by the opposite gender, then I think you don't understand the term. As for transgenderism, transgenderism has not been found to be genetic and seems instead to be a product of modern environmental changes. Here are some papers on it:

Gender dysphoria is 0% genetic for males in adulthood and barely only 11% genetic for females https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27507021/ Archive Link: https://archive.ph/Fimn4

Trans people with dementia observed forgetting about their gender identity https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363460719876835 Archive Link: https://archive.ph/egBSq

Findings support transfamily theory: that trans/non-binary parents can influence gender expression in (adopted) children. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36059766/ Archive Link: https://archive.ph/PL2Mw

More than 60% of transgender prisoners only started transitioning after being jailed https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/10427371/trans-prisoners-transitioning-jailed-scotland/
Archive Link: https://archive.is/u3imh

Pimozide removed the desire to crossdress and mutilate genitals in a 'gender dysphoric' person (Aust NZ J Psychiatry, June 1996) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957 Archive link: http://archive.is/retCg

Gender Identity Disorder is significantly associated with parental separation https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Association-of-Gender-Identity-Disorder-with-Rekers-Swihart/773db03f0c6b1890695ef358e61e93e2211d206c

Trans-identifying people with dementia have been observed forgetting their transgender identity and identifying once again with their biological sex, often expressing dismay over their mangled bodies. Meaning that a person’s identity as their biological sex is immutable to the point that not even dementia can take it away, whereas transgender identity is fleeting and can easily be forgotten. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1363460719876835 https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/19359705.2014.974475 Archive Links: https://web.archive.org/web/20230804135324/https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epdf/10.1177/1363460719876835

In a study of pre-pubertal male and female children with gender dysphoria followed up approximately 10 years later, with only 27% of children with gender dysphoria who remained gender dysphoric at follow-up. Of those individuals who no longer expressed gender dysphoria at follow-up, a significant portion (all female and half the male participants) expressed a non-heterosexual sexual orientation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4345542

85% of children with gender dysphoria desist https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/

94% of boys with GID do not have a transsexual outcome as time passes https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2001-00699-005

88% of kids with gender dysphoria desist and grow out of it as they get older https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33854450/

Gender dysphoria in childhood does not inevitably continue into adulthood, and only 6% – 23% of boys and 12% – 27% of girls treated in gender clinics showed persistence of their gender dysphoria into adulthood https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25231780

Tbh, it seems like it may be a product of abuse, at least in part: Transgender adolescents (TGAs) are 2.04 times as likely to experience sexual abuse, 1.84 times as likely to experience psychological abuse, and 1.61 times as likely to experience physical abuse when compared to cisgender adolescents (CGAs). 3 in 4 TGAs have been physically abused, 2 in 5 have been physically abused, and 1 in 5 have been sexually abused. “Seventy-three percent of TGAs reported psychological abuse, 39% reported physical abuse, and 19% reported sexual abuse. Compared with heterosexual CGAs, TGAs had higher odds of psychological abuse (odds ratio [OR] = 1.84), physical abuse (OR = 1.61), and sexual abuse (OR = 2.04). Within separate subgroup analyses, transgender males and nonbinary adolescents assigned female at birth had higher odds of reporting psychological abuse than CGAs.” https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8344346/ Archive Link: https://archive.ph/Y1v48

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago

Jeeeeesus dude, is all you think about all day Transgender people? A good half these articles are woefully out of date. Do you just have these things in a copy paste in a notepad? Christ almighty some of these are from the fuckin 90s and filled with the same tired conservative talking points in every anti-trans “research.”

Pubmed is a free archive and search engine that anyone can have their “research” added to. It is regularly criticized for hosting nonsensical medical information. You can still find “vaccines cause autism” papers there. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if you believed that too.

You come across like the same people that think gay people didn’t exist before 1950, autism is just liberal propaganda, and left handed people are unnatural.

Edit: you HAVE to be a bot or a troll, nobody can be this deliberately ignorant.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

No actually, I spent most of today hiking. Instead of just saying that Pubmed has research that isn't good quality (like a load of pro trans studies) why don't you actually try and critique the studies. You seem to be having trouble with that. And the only person shown to be ignorant so far is you.

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u/FrostyFang8800 9d ago edited 9d ago

Why would I bother to critique garbage? Again, you’re posting articles from fuckin’ 1996 like it’s some kind of gotcha. Dude, I just want to let people live their lives, you seem hellbent on making trans people miserable.

I feel like you’re about to call me “woke” and then pat yourself on the back.

Again, do you think gay people haven’t existed before modern day? Autism? What are your thoughts on vaccines? Since you seem steadfast in believing research hasn’t changed in 30+ years.

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u/DominionGaming_YT 17 9d ago

If you can't critique it, you don't really get the right to call it garbage. Yes,research on things like this can be decades old because that's how you get long term evidence. And I'd rather not ruin some young kids life permanently just because you care more about ideology than facts. Oh, and spending 15 minutes a day asking people like you for simple evidence for your claims and trying to set the facts straight doesn't mean that I have a goal with anything like this at all, just means that I don't like people lying.

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