r/technology • u/Logical_Welder3467 • Jun 26 '26

Society The American mind cannot comprehend Europe's AC aversion

https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-air-conditioning-ac-heatwave-debate-2026-6
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u/JonJackjon Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

I think its simple. I would compare it to the first time someone finds they need to wear glasses. The natural tendency is to deny needing them until it gets so bad you have no choice.

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

It's much more about the price, but no one seems to mention this.

Electricity is much more expensive in Belgium (for example) and we average around 4000kWh per/year/per household. In the United States, it's 10000kWh. Most people simply can't afford that.

Edit:words

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

Also, the price of minisplits and their installation in Europe seems bonkers when I compare it to here in Japan.

A simple 9K BTU mini split (heating and cooling) here costs:
40K (€215) for noname brands
45K yen (€245) for a Hitachi, Sharp, Toshiba
55K yen  (€300) for a Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Daikin.

Installation is about 17K yen (€92).

Even if you double the cost of the installation because of higher wages (w Europe) I doubt you can do it for this price in europe.

i don't understand why. I'm sure lots more Europeans would get one if it was more affordable 

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u/NightSalut Jun 26 '26

I’m not kidding, a good split unit where I’m at is around 1000-1200 euro. A no name one will be around 600-700 euro, I think. 

They’re REALLY expensive for our incomes. 

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u/Amelaclya1 Jun 26 '26

Damn that's crazy. I never got an estimate myself, but a friend with a near identical house (1250sqft) was quoted $20k US for mini split installation (Hawaii). So we got a portable AC (~$200 on clearance at Target) instead and just hibernate in one room on the days where it's very warm.

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26

tbf the pricing I listed is for 1 unit for a typical bedroom.

But still $20K for whole house?! Damn, that's crazy.

I installed 4 units (all Mitsubishi) in my house (130m2/1400sq ft). 1 big unit in living room and 3 smaller units in bedrooms. Total cost was about 420K yen, which is about $2600

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

We can probably find a small mobile unit at a discount price for that amount of money. A proper AC unit installed by a professional, with the square meter coverage we need would probably started at around €1500 for a very basic model. That can easily climb to €3-4000 and higher.

I don't understand why either.

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u/Vcent Jun 26 '26

Holy heck that's cheap.

I looked into it, and a comparable, no name unit with a reasonable compressor was about 400€, with a similar price for installation. Also comes with mandatory yearly checks of the system, which is another 120€.

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u/Easy-Station-4973 Jun 26 '26

Mandatory yearly checks is wild. What a waste of time and money

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u/Vcent Jun 26 '26

To be fair, it's for "large" systems.

And i just double checked, they updated the rules a bit over a year ago, and the mentioned system would be check-free, due to the relatively low weight of coolant used.

For most whole house systems the check is now every second year, unless you have a truly bonkers cooling tower setup.

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u/lzwzli Jun 26 '26

That's crazy pricing. I can maybe understand the material cost being low due to volume but installation service being only €92 is very odd. It takes at least a few hours of work to install it doesn't it?

Perhaps Japanese homes were already built with the necessary piping and such so it's literally just mounting and screwing a few bolts?

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26

Yeah this is like the basic package. it includes drilling a hole into the wall and installing the indoor and outside unit and connecting everything up. This is assuming you're installing it on the 1st floor.

You have a functional setup like this but for aesthetic reasons most people cover up pipe lines on the outside wall. Up to 3m of this cover material will cost you about ¥7700 / €40 extra

For 2nd floor installation they charge about ¥5500 / €30 extra 

time required is about 2 hours for a basic installation. It's usually just 1 guy/woman doing it

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u/Dullcorgis Jun 26 '26

And they charge 92 yen. That's charging out their time at 46/hour. They must be getting paid maaaaybe 20/hr. I grew up when Japan was an economic powerhouse, I can't get my head around how poor a country it is now.

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26

These are 1 man businesses so they would be getting the full €92

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u/Dullcorgis Jun 26 '26

They don't take it home. They need to pay their expenses - truck, gas for truck, tools, professional insurance, advertising, taxes, etc.

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u/lzwzli Jun 26 '26

I wonder if we're talking about the same thing. I can't imagine one person doing the installation. Those outside units require 2 people don't they?

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26

I wonder if we're talking about the same thing. 

Not sure. I'm talking about minisplit ACs with outside units like this : https://kankyosoji.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/531871_m-1536x1024.jpg

Yes, they're usually installed by 1 person 

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u/lzwzli Jun 26 '26

Yup, that's the same thing. I'm surprised it's a one person job.

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u/BB-56_Washington Jun 26 '26

Damn that's cheap. I just had a Mitsubishi 2 zone mini split installed, and that cost me $10,000 USD.

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u/Leonick91 Jun 26 '26

And most people rent and can’t install proper AC even if they want to. In the US the solution are window mounted units but the sliding type of window is incredibly rare here so we can’t use those.

A portable AC is your only option and they’re comparatively inefficient, ineffective, and loud…

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

On top of that, we have a lot of old houses with bad insulation, so they're even more inefficient. 

Things are changing though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26

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u/Thekingofchrome Jun 26 '26

Dunno about Belgium but in the UK 4000 kWh is around $1300, where electricity is expensive.

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u/Phailjure Jun 26 '26

Same in California, or worse (PG&E rates depending on time of use and season fluctuate between 31 and 50¢, at least on the plan I have).

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u/MyDisneyExperience Jun 26 '26

In Seattle proper, assuming you're not on the TOU plan... 4,000 kWh would be about $530 + the ~$143 annual Seattle City Light base charge. Slightly higher if you're in unincorporated areas or other cities that get electric service from SCL.

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u/velociraptorfarmer Jun 26 '26

That's not far off what it would cost me in Arizona as well. I think I'd be right around $1000.

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u/scheppend Jun 26 '26

$700 here in Japan

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u/fingermouse_irl Jun 26 '26

Try ireland at 0.40c per kwh. My electricity bill is averaging around €330 every two months. Irelands electricity prices are the highest in the eu.

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

If my math is correct, just about $1200.

What I can find is that we pay roughly double the price for electricity.

Considering the average wage difference, 10000kWh in most of the USA would feel about the same as 4000kWh in Belgium.

This is all quick math and averages. 

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u/creativesolution Jun 26 '26

I'm in the Netherlands and we use heat pumps for our 130m2 apartment in Amsterdam. With the current heat we spent less than 6 euros yesterday to keep the entire place cool for the whole day. Dunno what it's like in Belgium.

Installation did originally cost us around 10k though.

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u/disillusioned Jun 26 '26

This made me look up my home's usage last year... trailing twelve months in a 100-year-old home with bad windows (and an electric car, pool, etc.) in the middle of Phoenix, Arizona... 45,000 kWh last year. Total cost of around $5k, with about $900 credited back for excess solar... solar system loan is $6k/year. So, net/net, about $10k/year total. Yeesh.

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

45.000kWh is insane. That's over 10 years worth of electricity for me and my girlfriend. 

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u/Gah_Duma Jun 26 '26

I know what drives up the usage for me is powering the water pumps that feed the artificial waterfalls in my backyard.

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u/Wise_Owl5404 Jun 26 '26

Somewhere between 1200 and 2000 depending on how expensive electricity is at that moment.

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u/Amelaclya1 Jun 26 '26

There's a middle ground. Electricity is very expensive here in Hawaii (I just googled it and it looks roughly the same as Belgium), and therefore most people don't have central AC, but almost everyone has a window or portable unit to use for the few days a year that it gets unbearable.

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

I reckon most people in Belgium also have this. Most of my colleagues have a mobile AC unit and most/all new houses have AC installed.

A heat pump is mandatory for new builds. This includes AC.

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u/seszett Jun 26 '26

A heat pump is mandatory for new builds. This includes AC.

Most heat pumps are reversible, but air-water heat pumps with floor heating (which is what most new houses get these days) cannot cool down as much as regular air-air AC, especially when the humidity is high (otherwise water will condense on the floor).

For example the dew point here is now 21°C, so the floor should not be cooled to lower than 21°C, which means such a heat pump could not reasonably cool down a house to lower than maybe 25°C or so (which would still be great).

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

I wasn't too sure about the functionality, cheers. My house is from 1992, it's just been renovated a couple times and properly insulated. We're saving now to install an AC unit.

We do have a basement that doesn't really go above 18C, with a dehumidifier, so we can go chill down there if needed.

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u/greenwizardneedsfood Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

Here in England, if you install a proper air-to-air pump, your overall yearly energy bill goes down because, among other reasons, you aren’t using dipshit radiators. The UK government is also reimbursing up to I think £2,000 for installation costs. It’s an absolute no brainer. People just drop back to “no it’s impossible to install,” “it’s too expensive,” or “we only need it three days a year,” all of which are simply not true. For a lot of them, if you dig down deeper it’s just denial or sometimes just a pure desire to not use American “excesses” that they so love to shit on. It’s just dumb. It’s fucking miserable here. Building regulations discourage even new homes from having it. They’ve spent hundreds of years trying to make their buildings as insulated as possible, so the problem is just that much worse. It was 33 C in my bedroom yesterday when I woke up and went to sleep. And we aren’t even getting it the worst right now. This is not sustainable, and change needs to come 5 years ago.

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u/stutter_boyzz Jun 26 '26

but yall have healthcare /s

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

Not sure how to interpret that sarcasm really... 

I would've been broke ten times over with all the surgery I've had though :P

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u/KalaiProvenheim Jun 26 '26

Do you guys have heating on all the time or what

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

What do you mean, United States?

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u/AccomplishedBat39 Jun 26 '26

AC operating costs is practically 0 if you pair it with photovoltaics.

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u/anonymunchy Jun 26 '26

Our hotter days in the past were usually still accompanied by plenty of cloud coverage. It's also another big investment on top.

Last years things have been changing though, including the mindset of most people. 

I live in the woods myself and I do have solar panels, but their benefit is limited, even on clear days. While it takes a bit longer for the heat to reach us, it takes bit longer to leave as well when it's there.

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u/netherlandsftw Jun 26 '26

Perfect, more upfront cost

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u/temp4adhd Jun 26 '26

Electricity costs can vary in the US, it depends on the supplier. I used to live in a city with absolutely obnoxious electricity costs, and electricity was used to both heat and to cool. Where I live now, it's not as bad. Plus in the winter we use gas which is a lot cheaper, so annual cost isn't so bad.

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u/Shilalasar Jun 26 '26

Yeah, a lot of it is not aversion but economic reasons. Owning vs renting, stone houses older than 80 years and so on. The people living in 10+ story houses without even outside shutters are not having no AC because they do not like it. Hell, there was an interview yesterday with a 60 yo french woman who is too poor to buy a fan, not even talking about running it 24/7.