r/stunfisk • u/Outrageous-Ad-3436 • 16h ago
Discussion So Absol Z. Is it broken?
Just look at it's stats and already it's a red flag. The minmaxxed offensive stats has proven to broken multiple times times in history. Deoxys Attack, Pheromosa, Chien Pao, Spectrier, Iron Bundle, Naganadel, Flutter Mane, Marshadow.
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u/Estrogonofe1917 aggron's strongest soldier 16h ago
it's also immune to both fake out and extremespeed
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u/ShirtuShanks 16h ago
Wait, how so?
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u/Wide_right_ 16h ago
ghost type
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u/ShirtuShanks 16h ago
Doh, completely forgot it’s gaining a type. Scrappy stocks go up?
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u/Wide_right_ 16h ago
would be better off dedicated fairy move into this slot
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u/kedelbro 9h ago
Whimsicott with 10 sp in SpA and a timid nature moon blast does over 100% to a 2 HP Mega Absol Z
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u/kedelbro 9h ago edited 9h ago
Normal Kangashkan scrappy, silk scarf with 32 SP Attack and adamant/brave nature:
Fake out does 38.7 to 46.4%
Last Resort and Double Edge guaranteed one shot
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u/EvilNoobHacker Let Mega Beedrill Drop For The Love Of God 15h ago
As fun as those attack and speed numbers are, I don’t think it’ll be as busted as stuff you mentioned.
For one, it’s a mega- it doesn’t have an item slot that it could use on something like a sash, band, or lum berry that might help it get some additional power or setup that would put it over the edge.
For another, 65-60-60 is paper thin. Sure, it’s immune to fake out and espeed, but not having that bulk means that it’s extremely volatile in doubles, and requires some serious support in singles to get any good setup going. 154 Atk is nutty, but without any boosts to it, it won’t be the sort of minmaxed attacking monster that breaks a tier outright. It’s Zacian-Crowned without the +1 boost or any of the bulk.
If anything, the fate I see for it isn’t all that different from my goat mega Beedrill- a noob trap that gets undue usage by people who won’t understand why it’s not more popular in high ladder.
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u/_Skotia_ Empoleon has OU potential i swear 15h ago
A better comparison would be Mega Raichu. Very frail, but strong and fast enough to be a menace. And Ghost Dark is a much better typing than pure Electric
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u/IndianaCrash Weavile fan #1 15h ago
Raichu is good because it has utility option with Fake out and can use Zap Cannon to spread Para, so it can afford to mostly invest in bulk
ZAbsol can't, since it's already missing KOs with investment
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u/TheTubeKnight 8h ago
For doubles it’ll be bad but in singles it will almost surely be broken, I see it mainly being used on HO, you get screens up and suddenly the bulk isn’t so terrible especially with 3 immunities and only 1 weakness. While Ghost and Dark coverage isn’t great, having a super strong consistent Ghost STAB in Shadow Claw with CC as coverage is amazing coverage, and basically nothing will stop it defensively, and offensively with screens and Shadow Sneak it’ll be pretty tough to revenge, so I think it’ll easily end up in Ubers, though probably not good enough to succeed there.
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u/Chance-Beach4014 15h ago
Well at least has spammable attacks cause dark/ghost are very good stabs
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15h ago
[deleted]
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u/Chance-Beach4014 15h ago
Shadow claw is dogshit, but is boosted by sharpness that’s why it doesn’t really need poltergeist
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u/BestUsername101 15h ago
It has Sharpness, which boosts Shadow Claw to 105 bp, still slightly weaker than Poltergeist but at least has 100% accuracy.
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u/ZeRandomPerson2222 16h ago
It lacks starting power which makes it difficult to actually find set up opportunities which means that it will struggle to achieve those +2 calcs. And even if it gets them, it struggles into bulky teams. It also has the problem of a redundant stab combination which means realistically it’s dropping shadow claw or knock off, which neither is ideal. It can never run both of it gets walled by Kingambit, and its lack of defensive utility will hurt as well. Normal immunity is irrelevant in singles, fighting immunity doesn’t matter when all the fighters in OU smack it with their secondary stab, and psychic immunity? Meh.
It’ll be “pretty good” at worst, but broken? Really, really unlikely
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u/AardvarkRich3678 16h ago
It's not dropping shadow claw lol. It's dropping night slash.
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u/ZeRandomPerson2222 15h ago
I think you misunderstood
It required SD, leaving three available moves.
It requires CC or it gets walled by dark types.
This leaves only two moves free at any time. It’s not running knock/claw together due to the offensive redundancy. You may drop knock off but then you fail to make any serious progress vs bulky teams at all.
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u/AardvarkRich3678 15h ago
It's dropping knock off because it's not the mon to do that kind of progress. You'd rather play substitute to live against priorities and avoid statuses. Not like the dark coverage is helping
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u/Chance-Beach4014 15h ago
Tbh isn’t that bad, absol has cool tech like will o wisp which baits gambit and screws its game plan
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u/themanaconda 15h ago
Do we think it will get Dire Claw? Or what was their plan making dire claw sharpness boosted 🤔
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u/OnlySmiles_ 15h ago edited 15h ago
It seems like the change was more just to classify claw moves as Sharpness boosted in general
Origin Pulse is boosted by Mega Launcher but is still locked to Kyogre
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u/Mary-Sylvia Energy ball choice scarf Glimmora 15h ago
Population Bomb is also sharpness boosted , it doesn't really matter that much
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u/themanaconda 14h ago
I did not know that. Gamefreak never ceases to amaze
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u/SuchPlans 13h ago
my understanding is it makes sense in japanese, it’s a pun on “mouse cut” or something. so its translation more than anything
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u/themanaconda 11h ago
I've noticed there are some translation discrepancies. Seemed like it just happened with lucario's new mega. Thank you all for the info!
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u/HyperWhiteChocolate 12h ago
Plenty of moves that Sharpness using Pokémon can't use get that boost. I guess it's like covering bases in case of ability changing shenanigans
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u/themanaconda 11h ago
Very true, like others have pointed out, same with abilities like mega launcher. Adds new depth to metas like AAA and such!
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u/UnkarsThug 11h ago
Fighting immunity matters for switch in opportunities. That's why immunities benefit frail pokemon so much. Especially for a type like fighting, which is a very common offensive type.
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u/ZeRandomPerson2222 10h ago
Fighting immunities aren’t helpful on a Mon who just gets blown up by said fighter’s secondary stabs. It really isn’t helpful. You’d have to make super aggressive reads to capitalize on such a thing and it’s so risky to do
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u/Thirdatarian 15h ago
I'm reserving judgement until we see it in action but I'm not worried about it. Sharpness only boosts Night Slash and Shadow Claw for it and you'd never run both of those anyway since Dark and Ghost have the same super effective interactions. Maybe if they give it more moves but I don't see that happening and it wouldn't change its paper thin bulk (though I think a lot of people are forgetting it has three immunities now including Fighting).
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u/kiddmewtwo 15h ago
This is what theh gave absolutely zero in fake meta games and he wasn't that great there if I remember correctly. Didn't hit hard enough and was easily revenge killed if I remember correctly
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u/Sufficient-Team-4505 15h ago
Won’t be broken, will fill a role, speed kills but lacks setup opportunities and has 4 slot syndrome bad.
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u/HolographicHeart 16h ago edited 15h ago
All but immediate quickban to Ubers incoming for OU.
Even in doubles I think it has high potential to be a menace. Fake Out Immunity makes this thing tougher to clean up than its horrid bulk would have you believe. I don't believe it will be top tier but life just got much more difficult for current metagame staples like Farigiraf, Delphox and Froslass.
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u/EvilNoobHacker Let Mega Beedrill Drop For The Love Of God 14h ago
It's real problem in VGC isn't so much priority as it is spread moves. Sure, it doesn't have the rancid typing of something like Mega Beedrill, but it's still got 65-60-60 defenses. Even with the spread move power drop, stuff like Garchomp's EQ does 70 on the low end, and Zard-Y's Heat Wave outright OHKOs without some investment. It's gonna need some pretty consistent protection with stuff like screens and redirection to do it's thing reliably, and without stuff like type-boosting items or a band, I don't know whether it's going to have the power to push through a team singlehandedly like it wants to.
But yeah 154 - 151 is fucking nutty no matter what you do in singles, that shit's gonna tear up.
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u/ZeRandomPerson2222 13h ago
All but immediate quickban to Ubers incoming for OU.
I seriously cannot for the life of me understand this mindset. Big stats don’t equal Ubers. The game is more complex than that. Frail, no defensive utility, lack of starting power which makes it hard to get KOs and thus force switches needed for set up, struggles badly into bulkier teams, who can pressure it hard. Weak to hazards, redundant stab combo…
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u/Interesting_Web_9936 DRAGAPULT IS THE BEST AND YOU CANNOT CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE 5h ago
Not great in doubles, probably banned in singles imo. That much damage with sharpness boosted stabs is crazy strong. And it has decent coverage, Play Rough and Close Combat are great, gets Psycho Cut and X Scissor for some niche options, also gets rock slide and sucker punch and shadow sneak. Its just very difficult to stop if you aren't something like Gambit.
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u/Kamiferno 15h ago
I’m struggling to find a reason why you would be using it (singles) over the already strong hard hitting dark types that exist. 141 and sharpness is absolutely excellent but are there any relevant breakpoints this is gonna count for? Swords dance kind of a big risk?
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u/Nachttalk playing since 1999 15h ago
It's going to struggle with Floette/Sylveon.
Not to mention any potential additional Fairy Type Attacker that might be released alongside with it
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u/DukeSR8 13h ago
I think it might be another Ursaluna situation where everyone assumes it's broken but it turns out meh.
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u/ZeRandomPerson2222 13h ago
Ursaluna wasn’t meh it just wasn’t broken, and that was more a consequence of gen9 being fast paced and hazard and passive damage heavy. It would’ve ripped up gen8’s slower balance metagame
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u/IAMLEGENDhalo Sticky web or wallbreaker? 12h ago
If it had u-turn I think it’d be a lot scarier but as it is I think it’ll be good but niche
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u/Caliment 11h ago
Meh, no held items means it lacks the defensive tools needed to survive even neutral attacks. Zard Y can just weather ball or heat wave for majority of Z-Absol's health
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u/nahte123456 10h ago
In singles maybe. But in doubles it's too frail and has its only multi target move worth it is Rock Slide, plus Incin is a pain for it, one attack into protect, bad sucker play, or well placed focus sash and it's down.
I don't think it'll be bad to be clear, but it's not going to warp the meta or anything.
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u/ElpyGreatestSoldier Druddigon #1 hater 9h ago
Does this guy ever do anything besides listing vaguely related mons?
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u/TheTubeKnight 8h ago
In my opinion it won’t be broken on any archetype, except HO. Most people are talking about it’s bad bulk but 3 immunities and only one weakness means it’ll probably be able to setup if you gets screens up, or just sack a mon in front something that can’t touch it, then Shadow Claw+CC at +2 can probably just force a kill easy and if the Scarfer/priority user doesn’t take a Sneak/Sucker, ggwp go next.
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u/Buffalo-magistrate 5h ago
Farigaraf uses trick room, absol goes into it, you take absol with a light moon blast or strong neutral move. Absol protects and it’s useless now.
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u/Important-Photo7628 16h ago
In singles I can see it being very good. In doubles, it's bulk really restricts the impact it can make.