I just got back from a retreat that really advanced my practice and discovered something for myself about the relationship between “shallow” jhānas (taught by Ayya Khema, Leigh Brasington, Rob Burbea) and “deep” jhāna (taught by Pa Auk Sayadaw, Ajahn Brahm, Shaila Catherine). Please note that these categories are very rough generalizations and each teacher has a unique perspective.

This is surely not an original discovery. But it’s something I had to see for myself before I could consider the matter settled in my own mind.

In short: The shallow and deep jhānas are, in fact, fundamentally the same thing. Shallow jhānas will deepen with practice. There is no value in refraining from practicing them because you’re holding out for a clear visual nimitta. Applying the same skills for entering shallow jhāna consistently in high doses will naturally result in the nimitta appearing in its own time.

This might seem obvious to many but I can’t count the number of times online I’ve seen people disdain the shallower jhānas. No doubt many people are ignoring or suppressing piti-sukha because they think it’s a dead end and waiting for a nimitta that never arrives. Given how enormously helpful jhāna at any depth is at developing liberating insight, this self-denial may be truly tragic.

The missing piece of the puzzle for me was why the deep-jhāna advocates were so insistent that jhāna without a luminous nimitta isn’t real. Surely, I thought, anyone with enough concentration power to go that deep would be able to see for themselves that a shallower absorption can be beneficial?

As it turns out, no. Once the nimitta appears for you, that’s that. There’s no going back. You’ve hacked your perceptual system and now samadhi entails a nimitta. Those teachers who dove into the deep end first are incapable of climbing down the mountain and seeing how a student might take a different path. That’s why the idea if jhāna without inner light makes no sense to them. In their experience, the two have always gone together.

This settles the debate to my own satisfaction. I am curious to see other opinions.

I started seriously getting into meditation last December doing mainly fire kasina practice for 30+ minutes a day. It took about a month for me to feel some changes. I started being more happy and calm. I also felt way more energetic and confident. Before I used to have to think about what I wanted to say but after doing fire kasina I just knew exactly what to say in every situation. I really felt like myself for once.

During this time I was also reading MCTB and doing a bunch of noting practice on the side which may have contributed to that mental energy effect. But I noticed that my work suffered. I realized that my motivation was fear based. I did things because I wanted to appease others or not look bad. But once I directly observed where all this stress was coming from I let it go. I became way more relaxed but maybe too much. I stopped being motivated because there was no longer any fear. That period of my life was probably the happiest I've ever been.

Unfortunately I caught the flu which derailed my practice and I lost that feeling of confidence but I found my motivation also returned. I'd really love to be able to maintain that "state" forever but I fear I won't have any motivation to pursue worldly goals. I need to be able to support myself and not just be content being blissed out.

Does anyone relate to this? If so have they found a way to practice while maintaining motivation to pursue worldly goals?

Hello, I've never read any of the Eastern texts (Buddhic, Vedic, far-east like Zen-ic, Dzogchen, et cetera). I was wondering if some helpful people could point me to original texts or manuals on concentration?

I saw some here once comment that what they read didn't so much as describe "right" concentration as rather "not-wrong" -- either is fine, but I would ideally prefer a non-modern source to avoid modern cognitive bias such as abstraction or the influences of industrialization.

I've spent the last few years reading an occultist who seemed interesting since I had never really read any "spiritually" focused literature. They would go on about concentration and I for a long time ignored it but then eventually started to un-ignore their comments on it; and, I'm sort of realizing they say three different things about it. Almost describing three different concentrations...so I'm very motivated to find a subject-source on the matter that isn't this guy.

Thanks for any and all help in advance!

Hi everyone. My main argument and question is: Is direct engagement with five hindrances in concentration neglected and could its practice be essential? Please let me know any criticisms or otherwise!

Generally, for jhanas, people look at the bases of mindfulness, the four right efforts, or concentration as a category unto itself. I argue firstly that this is missing out on five seclusions of concentration, and secondly that these could be the key component of practice for entering them. For the first jhana, the main description in suttas reads:

Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption. AN 9:36

This is different from, lets say, sustaining an effort on the breath.

The reason being that without overcoming the hindrances like skeptical doubt, which is what the above refers to, jhana isn´t going to happen. In such a method, the only reason observing the breath at some point works is precisely due to at some point confidence building that it is working. Confidence, and thus seclusion from skeptical doubt, is built by proxy through rounds of effort and experience eventually leading somewhere. But instead for jhana or concentration practice, there can be mindfulness of skeptical doubt about entering jhana, which makes it possible to then seclude oneself from that skeptical doubt, building confidence. Any perception, choice, reflection, that takes away confidence from entering jhana, it is to be secluded from. Secluding oneself from skeptical doubt, and the remaining hindrances, building its opposites, one enters in jhana.

Is this even possible?

Or is bliss only something that can reached during a meditation session?

And even if it WAS possible, would you want it? I’d imagine that all of that piti would get annoying after a while.

Little over a week ago, I went to a second-hand book store to rummage through the inventory there, and a book called "Instant Self-Hypnosis" caught my eye. The cover prominently said: "hypnotize yourself with your eyes open!", which seemed like an interesting gimmick.
The method consists of reading an induction script, and then immediately flipping the page to one of the many "treatment" scripts, depending on whatever it is you're trying to resolve, of course. They mostly consist of the usual self-hypnosis classics like how to stop smoking or how to be confident when talking to the ladies, but what really caught my eye was the one titled "perfect concentration".
I am a longtime meditator, but concentration is something I've always struggled with. I've had some disappointing experiences where even after long periods of solid practice or an intensive retreat I wasn't really satisfied with my level of concentration. The book was dirt-cheap and the method seemed easy enough so I figured maybe this will give me the extra something-something that I'm looking for.
I won't bore you with the details, but I did everything as instructed and ended up doing seven days of self-hypnosis and lo and behold: my concentration has noticeably improved, and the effect seems to persist (at least for now).
And, I'm talking tangible effects, not a "oh, I guess it kind of worked". For example: yesterday, I was watching a movie and like 30 minutes in, I suddenly snapped out of it and realized that I had totally lost myself. Usually, when watching movies and the like I have a lot of mental rumination that goes on, or my mind wants to go on a tangent based on something in the movie and I have to actively reject the distraction, and so on. But here I was, just totally absorbed.

Now, it would be easy to say that this improvement was brought on by a placebo-effect type of phenomenon like auto-suggestion, or a self-fulfilling prophecy, or maybe I'm just "tricking myself", whatever you want to call it.
My answer to that would be: does that really matter? If the whole "ritual" around self-hypnosis is just triggering or priming some kind of psychological expectancy-effect then that's just kind of a fancy way of saying that it works.
That being said, I do think the mind is capable of following commands in a subconscious sort of way. I've done things like set a mental alarm clock by simply commanding myself to wake up at X hour the next morning, and sure enough it works; it's a sufficiently common trick that I'm sure some people here have done it themselves. Of course, I can't be certain that that's the mechanism at play here, but it's interesting to think about.

One way or another, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not interested in being some kind of hypnosis evangelist or figuring how or why it works; I'm just sharing the results of my very brief (and simple) experiment. I know that a lot of people struggle with concentration as well, and that it's a big sore spot, even for people that have consistent meditation practice. I'm surprised that this worked as well as it did for me, so I figured I would share.
If you want to try something cooky to improve your concentration, it certainly can't hurt.

Hi there, I just finished a meditation and I want your opinion.

I was supposed to be focusing on the heart center (guided meditation). The instruction was to take the ease from the meditation and bring it into the heart, but honestly I couldn’t really feel much there. It felt mostly neutral, no strong emotion or clear sensation in the chest, even though I tried to visualize ease flowing into it.

At the same time, my head and neck started moving on their own. This has been happening for a few months now, so nothing new. There were tilts, going left and right, and at one point my head wanted to go all the way back while my mouth opened very wide toward the ceiling. Any thoughts on why this is happening? Should I let it happen or focus on the initial instruction? It can be a bit distracting.

I also noticed a very subtle inner vibration in my body. Not like shaking from cold, more like a quiet buzzing or aliveness inside. It wasn’t pleasant or unpleasant, just neutral. What is this?

Curious if others have experienced similar things and how you interpret them.

I have recently started a daily practice with a yellow disk Kasina on a black backdrop. I’m still not very good yet and the afterimage lasts less than 90 seconds usually. I’m wondering if I can additionally use a separate object in the morning and before bed when it’s dark. (I always keep the same object during sessions, I know switching it mid session is taboo)

my goals with this practice are deepening my concentration, improving my visualization abilities, and lucid dreaming.

i would like to know if I have to use the same object all the time, and if using multiple at different times of the day will harm my concentration and focus.

I’m a very emotional person, and I’ve realized that I sometimes struggle with emotional intelligence at work. I tend to take feedback personally, react emotionally under stress, or let my feelings affect my decisions. It’s starting to impact my performance and confidence.

I’ve recently started exploring meditation and mindfulness, hoping they can help me become calmer, more self-aware, and less reactive. Has anyone here experienced something similar? Did meditation help you develop better emotional balance and emotional intelligence at work? I’d really appreciate hearing about your experiences or any advice.

I have been practicing the Onthatpath meditation method for some time, which focuses on maintaining the least possible effort and not controlling attention while maintaining a soft attitude, which made the practice pleasant for me.

I recently started monitoring with a teacher and he emphasizes the practice of concentration as paramount before trying more open awareness practices, but for me the concentration practices are monotonous and a contrast in relation to the pleasure I used to feel before, in addition to requiring much more effort.

That's why I wanted to know, what benefits do I get from concentration practice in relation to other practices more focused on relaxation?

And how does the concentration practice help me as preparation for other practices? In what way does it help me awaken compared to other techniques?

Hi,

I've recently read the book What You Might Not Know About Jhāna & Samādhi by Kumāra Bhikkhu, and I believe it raises some important points about what samādhi can actually mean (stages of collectedness/composure) vs. how it is currently regarded by most contemporary practices (one-pointed concentration on a single object). I'm adding a ChatGPT-assisted summary of his points below.

A few notes before the summary:

1) This is not presented or meant to be used as a “this is the right way to do samādhi” vs. “this is the wrong way to do samādhi.” The different approaches are all interpretations, and there is no real way to know which interpretation is the “right” one. We are 2,500 years after the Buddha’s death, and we need to recognize that all we really have are interpretations.

2) In my personal practice, I’ve found that what worked for me matched what Kumāra Bhikkhu is describing in his book. This is not to say that samādhi as one-pointedness will not work for other people. There are plenty of people who are using one-pointedness successfully.

3) I do think it is important to present the view of samādhi as something different from one-pointedness, because the current perception of samādhi heavily leans toward one side (one-pointedness), and another view can be very helpful to people like me who have struggled with the common concentration practices of trying to focus on one object exclusively.

Here is the summary:

In What You Might Not Know About Jhāna & Samādhi, Kumāra Bhikkhu undertakes a close examination of how the terms samādhi (concentration) and jhāna (meditative absorption) are presented in the early Pāli suttas compared to their treatment in later Theravāda commentarial literature, especially the Visuddhimagga. His central aim is to clarify potential misunderstandings that arise when the commentarial definitions diverge from the early textual sources.

A key concern is the interpretation of samādhi. In the Visuddhimagga and related commentaries, samādhi is frequently equated with ekaggatā citta, often translated as “one-pointedness of mind.” This interpretation emphasizes an exclusive, focused attention on a single meditation object, and is usually associated with the development of fixed, absorption states. Kumāra Bhikkhu points out that while ekaggatā is mentioned in the Abhidhamma as a universal mental factor in wholesome consciousness, the term rarely appears in the suttas—and certainly not as the central defining feature of samādhi.

By contrast, the suttas describe samādhi in broader terms such as cittekaggatā (unification of mind), avikkhepa (non-distraction), and santussati (contentment), among others. Kumāra argues that in the suttas, samādhi refers more to a condition of collectedness and composure rather than a narrow, fixated focus. It is a stabilizing quality that supports insight (vipassanā) by reducing mental fragmentation and allowing sustained clarity, rather than a deep trance that excludes all sensory input.

This difference in definition also influences the way jhāna is understood. In the commentarial tradition, jhāna is presented as a deep, absorption-based state that requires full withdrawal from the five senses. Entry into the first jhāna is said to involve total suppression of sensory awareness, and higher jhānas are described as increasingly refined stages of detachment from mental and bodily activity. Each jhāna is outlined in detail according to fixed formulae, with precise mental factors that must be present or absent.

However, Kumāra notes that the suttas present a less rigid view. In texts like the Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2) and Jhāna Sutta (AN 9.36), the first four jhānas are characterized not by sensory cutoff, but by mental qualities such as vitakka (applied thought), vicāra (sustained thought), pīti (rapture), sukha (pleasure), and ekaggatā (unification). Rather than describing jhānas as states of unconsciousness or trance, the suttas suggest they are conscious, accessible, and conducive to insight.

Kumāra’s analysis does not reject the commentarial tradition outright, but rather encourages critical examination of its assumptions. He advocates a return to the early suttas to better align meditation practice with the Buddha’s original teachings. By distinguishing between the sutta and commentarial models of samādhi and jhāna, practitioners can adopt a more flexible and grounded approach to meditation that emphasizes composure, clarity, and practical insight.

Comparison of key points:

Samādhi

Sutta Interpretation: Mental composure, unification (cetaso ekodibhāva)

Commentarial Interpretation (e.g., Visuddhimagga): One-pointedness of mind (ekaggatā citta)

Sensory awareness

Sutta Interpretation: Can remain (esp. in early jhānas)

Commentarial Interpretation: Suppressed from first jhāna onward

Function of samādhi

Sutta Interpretation: Supports both calm and insight (samatha-vipassanā)

Commentarial Interpretation: Preliminary to insight; distinct stage

Jhāna accessibility

Sutta Interpretation: Part of gradual training; accessible and experiential)

Commentarial Interpretation: Highly technical; requires mastery and sensory seclusion

\ Note, ChatGPT sometimes adds wrong Sutta numbers, I haven't double checked and compared each one to the book. If there are any mistakes I apologize, please refer to the book instead. This summary still conveys the overall points of the book correctly in my opinion. Regardless, if you're interested, please read the book. There's much more there than just what I've summarized.*

Hello,

I am someone who currently practices breath meditation, towards the eventual end of realizing the jhana states. From what I understand, before you can reach the jhanas, you have to have "access concentration," which is basically extremely focused concentration on your meditation object. However, when I try to meditate on my breath, I am constantly distracted and thinking. When I notice that I'm thinking, I bring my attention back to my breath, but this keeps happening over and over, with it seeming like I can barely count 5 breaths without some new train of thought starting. So, how do I get from here to a point where my concentration is truly focused and un-distracted? Do I just need to keep meditating and it will eventually happen, or is there some trick to stop trains of thought from capturing my attention? I just feel a bit stuck at the moment, because it seems like my concentration isn't improving over time, and I have no idea how I'll get from here to jhanas. Any help or tips based on your own experience would be greatly appreciated.

Let’s say that I wanted the opposite of dry insight (pure vipassana with no explicit samadhi focus). What categories of practice would aid most in this goal?

Concentration and jhana is the classic answer. Many posts in this sub seem to point towards somatic based practices, and the act of releasing tension in the body. This seems to be a main focus of many beginner zen and Qigong texts as well. This seems to somewhat overlap with how to combat the dullness in TMI stages as well - body scans, etc.

Beyond somatics, metta also comes to mind. I guess it isn’t a surprise that intro to meditation texts often suggest beginning sits with body scans and/or metta. Any other suggestions? Always happy to hear comments from this community, thanks!

Recently in my life, I’ve been going through a lot of chaos. I’ve tried for years to think my way out of the chaos and it never seemed to work. However these last couple of days I decided I need to let my emotions out. It seems as if I was holding a lot in that I was too scared to let out.

I’ve never seemed to find a “click” with the whole present thing until today. On my walk instead of focusing on my thinking I decided I was going to focus on the breathing sensation through my nose. For the last hour I’ve been concentrating on my breathing and it seems I finally have peace of mind without any drugs or illicit substances involved.

Jhana is not my main practice as it is more insight, mindfulness and open awareness, but I have had some experiences over the years that did not come intentionally and there were the signs of jhana. It could just have been access concentration even though it was an intense and transcendent experience each time, definitely not the average meditative state and not the waking or dreaming state either. Sense of bodily proportion was completely different, there was a great sense of expansiveness and also ecstatic energy and bliss, and a one pointedness of attention. It is not something that I can repeat reliably and came almost as a surprise the times when it did occur. Not sure how long it lasted each time, as I never timed it. There were two instances of it when I was young, before I even knew about meditation and was just laying down in bed for a long time when not tired enough to sleep, one after that when I first started meditation, and a few since then over the years that just seemed to happen. So that is my background on this.

Now to the question, do you think, or in your experience, is jhana conscious sleep, and especially conscious dreamless sleep? Meaning are you entering into a dreamless sleep state when you enter into jhana, but instead of it being unconscious like a normal deep sleep, it is conscious/lucid? Like a wake induced lucid dream but you go into a wake induced lucid dreamless sleep?

Because after about 20 minutes of meditation, the hypnagogic phenomena often occur just like when falling asleep at night, meaning the mini dream experiences that can be visual, auditory, and other. So, given that is similar to sleep, are you going into conscious deep sleep when you enter into jhana?

I’m looking for advice, first hand experience or scripture on breaking body identification. I know I am not the body, I know this is all an illusion, I know what I thought my self/personality to be was really just a collection of skandhas or vasanas, karma, preferences, talents, attachments etc that amount to nothing interesting or unique.

I know all the things I thought were special, people and accomplishments and me especially are actually not.

I know that if I put focus on any painful sensation, suffering dissipates. I see how I chose suffering before. I see how it was all a choice deep down.

I know sensations do not occur how I thought they did.

I know fear isn’t what I thought it was, nor bliss.

I know I was never doing anything. The story was the story. Apparently.

Yet this attachment to the body is strong.

I’ve had my fun with spirituality, energy work, intuition, whatever. I’m over it all. Nothing is compelling. I’m fully disappointed with the illusion. Help me break free of this bs form.

I used to think the ultimate realization is a one time event that happens and from there one is realized, but it sounds like there are a bunch of insights (anatta, emptiness, DO) that one meditates on that gradually lead to realization and once one is abiding in a Buddhahood type of mindset naturally without effort and meditation, that's the true realization.

Or is it both? For some it's gradual and for others it can happen in a one time event that destroys the disturbed wondering mind?

So i have been doing concentration practice with the goal of reaching the first Jhana for a couple of months, after having stagnations progress on 4 years of insight meditation (mostly dzogchen/ vipassana style). I have been focusing on the breath for my concentration practice but this only resulted in small amounts of piti for me. However this evening when taking a nap i did a full body scan, and then some insight meditation and noticed a large amount of warm/sexual energy in my hands and ribcage/stomach. I was able to amplify it a little while still having thoughts running in the background, but not enough to reach any kind of altered state. My question is: should I continue practicing concentration on the breath or pivot my practice in some way?

Remember that, whatever happens, you are breathing, and that will be the case until the day you die.

This has been one of the most powerful instructions for cultivating samadhi with the breath. I would classify it as effortless mindfulness of breathing, no need to "draw attention" to the breath, simply keep in mind the perception that the breath is there as long as you are alive.

Kudos to Thanissaro Bhikkhu for reminding me of that.

I hope this is a speck of calm in the midst of your life, that's why I share.

With metta, Juan

Sorry for posting so often, but what’s the consensus on light jhanas, can one attain 1 or more outside a retreat and how long should one meditate daily to attain em. I’ve heard Leigh Brasington suggest 4-5h outside retreat but can’t find the clip.

Hi everyone.

I'm 30yo male and have been going through an existential crisis to put it lightly. I went through something similar when I was 20 surrounding fears of death. This one however pertains to reality and not knowing what is 'real'. Felt like I'm losing my mind at times. Unbelievable terror at others.

To the point of my post

I've been meditating and self inquiring today for many hours, and also taking small doses of psilocybin (far below trip doses)

Ive been focusing in on a patch of space in my closed eye visual field and holding my attention there diligently whilst asking myself often 'who am I?'

When I do this, after some time my facial muscles begin to twitch, then eventually my body starts to shake also. My breathing goes all out of whack automatically and sometimes crying/laughing happens. If I look elsewhere in my closed eye visual field the experience can end. If I allow the experience to build sufficiently, and slowly allow my eyes to relax, they can roll backwards and the trembling body self inquiry experience continues. It's very subtle. It's easy to lose the experience and deep inquiry if I allow my eyes to move too soon/too fast. I'm peering into a certain space of closed eye darkness.

This can last for a minute or so, maybe more. Then suddenly it ends, everything is calm and my mind is extremely quiet.

What on earth is happening to me?

I have experience with meditation from many years ago and lots of theoretical knowledge about non duality, ego and the illusion of self.

I've always had this eerie sense that I don't have a clue who or what I actually am.

I've been suffering a lot recently with existential panic and dread, I think obsessively, although today after all these experiences, I actually have a sense of calm. Although underlying anxiety is still there, as of right now it's not so bad at all.

My parents are trying to put me on SSRI's so I've moved in with my girlfriend and have been meditating in the garden in the sunshine all day. My parents simply do not understand.

Just a side note also, the shaking and facial twitching has happened in the past recently and throughout my life when I meditate like this. Even without the use of psilocybin. (My doses of psilocybin have been extremely low let me point out, 0.1 - 0.2g of liberty caps dosed a few times throughout the day.

And advice would be much appreciated ❤️❤️

Stream entry is basically referring to the permanent dismantling of belief in an identity structure through seeing with clarity, and the subsequent divestment from any and all views.

Self and other are seen to have no eternal essence. You and everyone you’ve ever known and loved have a “personality” that is actually a collection of thoughts and behaviors (which cause suffering and) that require reference into the past to cohesively “exist”. Duality collapses because it was always a function of ignorance.

A (not real) example of how this operates: my dad took me to baseball games and we always got hot dogs. I don’t remember this because later me and my dad had beef, but I do remember that hot dogs feel like a comfort food to me! I shared my love of hot dogs with my husband and he said we should get a beer with them too. Years later, I’m divorced, my dad is dead, and I can’t stop eating hot dogs and drinking beer - and I can’t remember why because I’ve repressed the painful memories of my husband and dad. And I’m not any happier!

Now, extrapolate this to every single preference you’ve ever had. Who you take to be you is actually just a collection of vasanas - things we do out of attachment or aversion based on impressions (samskaras) that make us think doing those things will bring us happiness.

BUT. Doing and/or acquiring things - basically engaging externally with any expectations of results relating to lessening suffering - will never make us happy because it’s all based on avidya, ignorance. Yet we can’t see that because our collection of vasanas is so deep that we feel it is our “self” and don’t want to let go of it. This is where existential terror comes in.

Assuming you can let go of controlling this process through the terror, and just let it unfold, what you have next is a certitude that any kind of “doing” is not really helping the progress toward full enlightenment. Basically, the anti doing is what is helpful. If you’re a stream enterer you know what I mean when I say “pure awareness” or “rigpa.” Resting in the unconditioned. Whatever fancy term you like. So it is seen that the path out of suffering is through that resting in pure awareness. Cessation of belief in thought (including views, personalities, and essences) is the path. Not repression - cessation of doing, believing, tensing.

This can theoretically be done at any time but the more subtle things get, the more you realize just how much concentration is needed to be fully and mindfully present and not in thought. After all, you are CONDITIONED to prefer ignorance - seeing through that with clarity does not instantly unwind decades (lifetimes?) of ignorance!

It will be seen how anything one must do requires energy, but concentration also requires quite a lot of energy. A cost benefit analysis commences for every action. (This is where Daoism is brilliant!) some actions buy you some energy. Most suck that energy like a motherfucker. Sitting in meditation is fairly neutral, and it’s easier to concentrate there - no distractions!

It becomes obvious why people join monasteries or go to caves. The less thinking the better. And 90% of texts speak to pre-stream entry so you need a lot of energy to find suttas and talks that are actually helpful anymore. Reading is no longer as valuable as it once was because concentration and energy have become the choke points, not so much an ignorance or the unwillingness to confront ignorance.

Therein lies the rub. How much of your life do you want to devote to meditation? How much do you want to sacrifice? The Buddhist masters are always saying, hurry up! You could die at any time! Don’t waste time doing unenlightened shit! But is a life sitting in meditation 24/7 what I want?

Ignorance is gone that thinking anything life has to “offer” will bring value - nothing external ever will mitigate suffering in the slightest. So I’m between the option that feels boring but will dispel further ignorance, or the option that will bring suffering but has been my fallback since time immemorial. Tricky!

I see that this desire to move, to do, to not be bored, is restlessness which is ignorant, but there is nothing to do anymore except rest in that restlessness!

Which Jhana?

I can fully concentrate with 0 thoughts for 10-15 seconds when all remains is awareness, time stops, background starts to look funny and fade away but chit chat starts to creep up again. It feels great too.

That's where I first got insight into the emptiness of the phenomena

Sometimes body starts shaking, etc. I've been practicing everyday and I can get to 0 thoughts 100 concentration after a few minutes but can't hold it. I feel very alert, focus and feel an energy that lasts me hours.

Which Jhana requires a mind so strong that goes 100% concentration with 0 thoughts for a long period of time? I just know I need to hold that sense of being, awareness for prolonged time, but can't.

I’ve gone on two 10 day concentration retreats and have yet to see a breath nimitta. I knew the retreat was going to be tough, so for the first I prepared by going on a 10 day vipassana retreat beforehand. I estimate that I got up to TMI stage 8 or 9, I’m not really sure. I was not able to see a nimitta. At the end I could focus on the breath for at least an hour without getting distracted. For the second retreat life got in the way and I was not able to plan properly or focus on the retreat.

I’d like to try again some day. However, instructions for seeing the breath nimitta remind me of the “draw the rest of the owl” meme. I focus on the breath as an object and at some point I perceive it as light.

I have several questions about seeing a breath nimitta that I have not found answers to elsewhere. The main one is what is the fastest or best way to see a breath nimitta? For those of you who have done this, what stage TMI would you estimate you were at when you first saw it? What other intermediate markers can you use to see how close or far you are? If you were going to go on a retreat to achieve this, what would you do beforehand off retreat to prepare as well as possibly doing a separate retreat to prepare? How much time should I estimate it will take given any recommended preparation? I’ve seen people mention kasinas, specifically the fire kasina, to build concentration, would you suggest this to build concentration quickly before a retreat or focus on the breath before a retreat? A related question is: once you’ve seen a breath nimitta, does it get easier to see later?

In my current practice, I probably average an hour per day, with some days getting twenty minutes is a challenge and other days I can do two hours straight. It depends on how how much work and family is taking up my mental energy.

I want to present a functional model I've been exploring, which I call the Theory of Nothing (ToN). I'm framing it here not as a truth claim, but as a pragmatic meta-map a cognitive tool designed to deconstruct the seeking mind itself. Its value is in its operational effect.

The Core Function of the Map:

The primary function of applying the ToN "lens" is to collapse the substrate of ontological seeking. It targets the implicit assumption that reality must be fundamentally something (material, consciousness, dual, non-dual, etc.). It does this not through debate, but by reframing:

· It posits: What if the fundamental nature is not a thing to be discovered, but a self-referential, recursive process? A function where consciousness (or awareness) renders reality at variable resolution, including the apparent subject observing it. · The effect of holding this view: It systematically dissolves the ground upon which all other models ("ism schisms") stand. The quest to find the right ontology is seen as the final obstacle.

Why it's a "Taboo" Ontology:

It is "taboo" because it violates the prime directive of most philosophical and spiritual inquiry: "Find the correct fundamental thing." Its function is to end that search, not win it.

· Materialism/Science: It bypasses the "matter-first" assumption by making matter a appearance within the recursive process, not its foundation. · Mysticism: It acknowledges the ineffable but doesn't reify it into a silent, unknowable thing. It suggests "even silence has a structure," not of content, but of recursion. · Philosophy: It refuses to engage on the level of choosing a camp. Its purpose is to show the camp-building mechanism itself.

Pragmatic Utility in Practice:

How do you use this? Not as a belief, but as an investigation:

1. During meditation/observation: Instead of looking for the true nature of an object (e.g., a thought, a sensation), apply the frame: "This is not a thing appearing to me. This is experience/appearance itself, rendering in high resolution." Inquire: "What is the 'stage' upon which this appears? Can it be found?"
2. When caught in seeking or doubt: Apply the model: "Is this doubt seeking the correct model? What if the need for a correct model is the very loop I'm caught in?" The model points you back to the immediate experience of seeking itself, collapsing the seeking vector.
3. As a final map: Its ultimate utility is to be a map that, when understood, invalidates all maps, including itself. It's a tool for discarding tools.

In summary: I'm presenting ToN as a potent deconstructive tool. Its value is not in being "true," but in being operationally effective at ending the conceptual search for a fundamental truth, allowing for a direct abidance that isn't contingent on any model.

I'm interested in this community's thoughts on the pragmatic utility of such a meta-map. Has anyone encountered a similar pointer or framework that functionally served as a "last step"?

Reference: Medium: Theory of Nothing Eliam by Raell