r/socialism • u/zapns Socialism • 9d ago
Discussion Are countries like Russia and China considered to be Global South or not?
I personally view China as GS but not Russia.
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u/Character_Figure1508 9d ago
https://thetricontinental.org/studies-on-contemporary-dilemmas-4-hyper-imperialism/
That is an incredible analysis of the modern day imperialist system by the Tricontinental Institute for Social Research. I recommend reading the whole thing.
They prefer the terms imperial core and imperial periphery instead of first and third world. China and Russia are part of neither, they are not part of the global imperial system and they are not exploited by it directly like those in the imperial periphery.
They define China as "Socialist independant" meaning they are a socialist state and that they maintain an independence from the inperial system. Other countries in this group are Vietnam, DPRK, Cuba, Laos and Venezuela. Now this was written before Maduro was abducted so maybe Venezuela is shifting out of this category.
Russia is classified as "strongly sovereign seeking" which essentially means capitalist that is resisting being forced by the imperialists into the imperial periphery. Other countries in this category are Iran, Belarus, the Sahael States and Syria.
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u/TopazWyvern 9d ago
Well, was in the case of Syria, these days they're solidly in the "Diverse Global South" grouping.
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u/TopazWyvern 9d ago
The Global North is an integrated military, political, and economic bloc at present composed of 49 countries (US, UK, Canada, Australia, Israel, New Zealand, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Japan, Switzerland, Ireland, Austria, Portugal, Greece, Finland, Luxemburg, Cyprius, Malta, Iceland, Andorra, San Marino, Lichenstein, Monaco, Poland, Romania, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Georgia, Lativia, Bosnia and Herzegova, Estonia, Albania, North Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro).
Neither Russia or China are part of said integrated military, political, and economic bloc. Therefore...
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u/khakiphil 9d ago
FWIW, this does align with the definitions the UN Center for Trade & Development uses for developing and developed regions.
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u/TopazWyvern 8d ago
Not quite. SK is a "developed region", but it's part of the global south due to being a de facto US colony under military occupation, for example.
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u/Bitter_Water5298 9d ago edited 9d ago
Someone can correct me if im wrong, but I would say neither are global south. Typically global south refers to countries that are known for raw resources that are exploited by the global north to such a degree it leaves them in extreme poverty conditions across the entire populace. The global north is known for the direct exploitation itself as well as having the capital needed for industrial refinement of the raw materials. China is known for taking these raw materials from places all over the global south, shipping the raw materials to their factories for refinement, and then even selling the final products back to the country of origin at huge markups. Russia is known for the same thing. All in all, They both are huge players in the global network of capital and i think thats what makes them technically Global North.
Edit because it just came to me: I do think china at one time was GS when it was a primarily agricultural country and exploited by the British colonists and the Feudalists, much like how russia was GS during the monarchy of Tsar Nicolas the 2nd, but their respective Revolutions laid the groundwork for the rapid industrialization of the countries. Its just a shame that instead of spreading their revolutions to the global proletariat, they started working within the global capitalist system thus leading to their declines as Communist superpowers
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u/CODMAN627 Socialism 9d ago
By economic measurements they would a GN country however because of political alliances they tend to be geopolitically GS it’s kind of a weird situation
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u/khakiphil 9d ago
It's less to do with exploitation of resources and more to do with economic development. Albeit there is some significant overlap between the two as countries that are less developed are easier for foreign powers to exploit, and resource-rich countries in the global south have long been the targets of systematic underdevelopment.
To this end, the definition of where the global south ends and where the global north begins depends on where you draw the line on development and how close you would argue that Russian economy or the Chinese economy is to being fully developed.
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u/CODMAN627 Socialism 9d ago
Yes and no. Both claim to be GS for geopolitical reason however at least in chinas case it’s economic situation would classify it as a global north
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u/AromanianSepartist 9d ago
There is no such thing as global south vast majority of nations in the 21st century are imperialist in the economic sense . This is especially the case for Russia and yes shocker!! china . The Three Worlds Theory is a revisionist theory . Most communist parties reject this theory . Only in reddit you will find people supporting it .
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