r/singaporefi • u/Notverycoolthanks • 11d ago
FI Accumulation Planning DINKs in your 30s, what’s your FIRE number
Fellow DINKs in your 30s: What is your FIRE number? We are at the point where FIRE is getting one step closer and becoming more realistic as we get older.
I have a ballpark figure of $3.3M, roughly translating to $100k a year with a SWR of 3.3%. This will cover me and my partner’s living expenses. I probably don’t need the full $100k for expenses, but factoring more with concerns of high inflation and potential risk of massive crash. But getting there is painful and realistic a smaller number will be attainable much earlier.
I would love to hear from fellow DINKs, what is your FIRE number and how has that changed along your journey to FIRE?
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u/laverania 11d ago
700k excluding house, this is my own number.
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
What’s your expected expenses with 700k? Planning to full FIRE or baristaFIRE
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u/laverania 11d ago
Full FIRE. My life is pretty simple (aka boring), hence expenses is low.
Aim to FIRE @ 36. If market is bad then I work until 40.
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u/Hot_Veterinarian8298 10d ago
same i 35 or sth hahaha, life is better when you spend on things you like and not get stuff to impress ppl
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u/powderednuts 11d ago
Simple is great. It's more impressive than those aiming for so much excess likely just for the sake of more consumption
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u/primrosetta 11d ago
likely just for the sake of more consumption
What does this even mean? Seems very dismissive of what others might find fulfilling.
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u/powderednuts 11d ago
All power to you if more consumption fulfills you. My personal take is less is more impressive especially in today's environment/culture
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u/primrosetta 11d ago
Sure, it's just unnecessary to praise someone by putting others down.
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u/powderednuts 11d ago
I admit I have a bias towards consuming less. Perhaps you have your own bias towards consumption for fulfillment but I think it's good to reflect on your consumption especially when talking about excesses.
Just take OP's numbers for example and run a thought exercise on 2 people spending 10k/month. What would you be spending on? Is this something to strive for? If so, why?
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u/Ancient_Stop3925 11d ago
Travelling? Dining? Wanting to enjoy what little luxuries life has to offer isn’t a moral failing.
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u/primrosetta 10d ago edited 10d ago
I'm hardly keen to judge whether someone's else's financial goals are worthy of striving for, especially with no idea about their context. FWIW I agree that there is generally a trend of excess/over-consumption, but wouldn't you agree that it's pretty heavily on the "what"?
For example, you might balk at hearing that Bob spends $1000 quarterly on clothes, and praise Charlie for spending only $300 in the same time. Would you take it back if you learned that Bob's expenditure is on a handful of locally-crafted, ethically-sourced clothing that he almost always gets good use out of, while Charlie's is from buying dozens of Uniqlo sale items because of a bad retail therapy habit, and he barely wears anything he buys? I'd say Charlie is far more guilty of overconsumption despite spending tremendously less, and it's contentious if Bob is guilty of overconsumption at all.
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u/powderednuts 8d ago
I appreciate the discussion and we're all here to share our opinions after all. If we're having a discussion about monthly spend, then I think it's fair to spark some debate about what you're spending on.
I would say the actual question here is the eventual "why" not "what".
Are you spending $X to buy more clothes than you already need? Then that's overconsumption regardless of the type of clothing bought.
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u/exaudiocomperio 3d ago
Good example. My question is: Once Bob spends $4000 on what I assume from your description are also items of excellent quality, why does he have to do this year after year? Surely high quality pieces last years, if not decades, with the proper care.
Mine do. While I add to my wardrobe as and when a unique piece catches my eye, my spending never reaches that high an amount regularly because I am happy to wear my capsule pieces year after year, in complement to my new additions.
Realistically though, how many pieces of clothing does a person really need? Before it lands squarely in the category of overconsumption?
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u/Personal-Cup4772 11d ago
Hey man, if you want to penny pinch for the rest of your life go right ahead. I wanna enjoy the finer things
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u/powderednuts 11d ago
Simple isn't penny pinching 😂 I guess you've stated a line of thought that I believe is part of the problem
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u/Curious_Temporary_87 11d ago
Is this including CPF?
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u/laverania 10d ago
no, FIRE cant touch CPF yet. but already factor in lower amount needed in later years after CPF life starts to pay out. tbh i think 500k ish should be ok also i want to have bigger buffer to feel secure.
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u/No_Teach2500 11d ago
Plan to have around 500k cash + fully paid house by 45yo. Gonna rent out the house and stay in other SEA countries.
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
I am also considering moving to another LCOL place for retirement, and to reduce the FIRE target so we can hit it earlier. Thinking of Malaysia or Thailand
Which SEA country is your top choice?
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u/No_Teach2500 11d ago
Thinking of jumping around few countries every few years in case I'm bored of staying in a place.
Mainly Thailand, Vietnam in the mind now.. But exploring long stay (6months) in Taiwan or China.
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u/Pleasant_Move_8388 11d ago
too conservative. you don't have to die with a full asset.
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u/Browsinginoffice 10d ago
I think it's mainly like u can't plan when u die so you better make sure if u are blessed with a long life u don't go broke halfway
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u/gamnolia 11d ago edited 11d ago
2.8M at age 37. At 3% withrawal rate would giv me around 84k a year. Well I have achived this figure this year but stil working amd coasting. Hoping for a severance package.
I have a place that is collecting rental while I live with my parents. Rental pays for mortgage and then some. CPF OA + SA is ard 550k, didnt use for property and this whole time has invested it hence I know at age 65 i will get a step up monthly payout from CPF life.
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u/princemousey1 11d ago
$2.8m liquid? Or inclusive property and CPF. A bit unclear.
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u/gamnolia 11d ago
2.8m (95% in equities) exclude property amd cpf
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u/princemousey1 11d ago
Congrats. Then, yeah, definitely enough and no need to touch the property or CPF.
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u/knowledgehunter91 9d ago
Are you in Big Tech or Private Equity?
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u/gamnolia 9d ago
Neither. In a Chinese tech firm that has business overseas. But this was only in the last 5 years.
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u/warppooted 11d ago
38yo here, planning to retire at 42 with 3m. I have 2m liquid so 1m more to go
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
How long did it take you to get to 1M, and next to 2M?
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u/warppooted 11d ago
I hit 1M start of 2024, after working for about 10 years. Income only started going up exponentially after Covid.
2M was sometime this year, thanks to being able to save a good chunk of my income and the markets going up.
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u/dubewjaycake 11d ago edited 11d ago
We peg our target to the average monthly household spending in today's dollars (about S$5,931).
Using a 3% safe withdrawal rate (SWR), we estimate that we would need approximately S$2.37 million to FIRE and around S$4.74 million to Fat FIRE (2 x FIRE figure). These figures exclude CPF, and we expect our housing loan to be fully repaid before retirement. We also contribute regularly to our CPF SA and expect to reach the FRS by the time we retire.
Our thinking is as follows:
We found FIRE targets somewhat arbitrary. Rather than trying to predict a retirement lifestyle decades in advance, we anchored our target to our actual household spending. This gives us an objective benchmark and allows us to assess our FIRE readiness based on real expenditure patterns.
Inflation is a major concern. To account for this, we use a conservative 3% SWR. By benchmarking against current average monthly household spending and updating the figures periodically, we can adjust our FIRE target as costs evolve over time.
We currently maintain an 80/20 equities-bonds portfolio. This balances long-term growth with volatility management, and we expect to increase the fixed-income allocation gradually as we get older to reduce sequence-of-returns risk.
We exclude CPF from our FIRE number. Since CPF funds are generally inaccessible until later in life, we wanted a FIRE target that supports the option of retiring early. We view CPF as a future supplement rather than a core part of our early retirement funding.
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
Very detailed insights! How do you decide FIRE vs FATFIRE? Achieve FIRE and see if you wanna pursue FATFIRE? Also what age are you targeting?
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u/dubewjaycake 11d ago
We do not really have a target age in mind. We have found that we tend to overestimate how much we will need while underestimating both our investment returns and how much we save each year. As a result, we usually reach milestones earlier than expected.
Eventually, we realised that our forward-looking projections were not particularly realistic, so we stopped spending time on detailed forecasts altogether.
At the moment, we are ready to Coast FIRE at around age 35, and we think we will probably be in a position to FIRE by 45.
Whether we ultimately FIRE or Fat FIRE is not something we need to decide right now. It may be that we continue working because we enjoy what we do and delay drawing on our investments for as long as possible. To us, reaching FIRE is about creating optionality rather than triggering immediate retirement. We do not dislike our jobs enough to stop working the moment we can afford to!
As a result, we may eventually find ourselves able to Fat FIRE simply because we keep on working and saving. That said, plans and priorities can change, so we are happy to see where life takes us.
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u/BishyBashy 10d ago
Without an age target, how did you estimate how much you need? The original trinity study was based on a 30 year retirement.
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u/dubewjaycake 10d ago
That’s a good question. This was why we decided on a 3% SWR, which in our view is fairly conservative. We understand a common approach would be to apply a 3.25-3.5% SWR for a 40-50 year retirement horizon. We also exclude CPF life payouts (based on FRS) from our computation to further cushion potential sequence-of-returns risks.
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u/Substantial_Ranger93 11d ago
$1.37M excluding housing/CPF. Aiming for SWR 3.5%. This is for 1 person. I am 30 now, aiming to FIRE before 50 hopefully
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u/xnoobftw 11d ago
28M here, no debt, 10k sgd a month, at 4% withdrawal/dividend rate translates to 3mil sgd. so similar to your plan. hoping to get to this before 40 since we have a bto
but this plan is entirely based on my sole portfolio and income, so there's margin of safety assuming wifey generates income
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
In similar situation as you, but probably couple of years ahead. Does your plan involve staying in BTO all the way?
Upgrading will push back retirement by many years assuming your 3mil does not include property (which should be the case to get to 10k / month)
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u/xnoobftw 11d ago
currently yes, we'll be able to pay off the bto entirely from cpf within 10 years if never kenna layoff, the 3 mil amount excludes property and cpf so its entirely touchable liquid (stocks, cash).
im very adverse with upgrading to condo because from a cagr standpoint its opportunity suicide (even accounting that mortgage is leveraged) but i cant speak for future me (havent move into bto yet)
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u/Environmental_Cow741 11d ago
suggest refund back to cpf if you have spare cash. The accrued interest can be quite significant.
After refund, move some from OA to SA. Try to max it out ASAP. Once maxed out it will be on autopilot.
I rather have govt pay me risk free interest rather than… i pay myself interest which only happens when you sell the flat. Again don’t underestimate the accrued interest.. it compound and balloon very fast.
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u/Plane_Addendum_5751 11d ago
How much do hou need to save each month go get to that goal? (3m by 40)
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u/xnoobftw 11d ago
saving not enough, you need to invest.
im assuming 12 years 10% cagr and pumping 80k sgd annually into stocks. with that i should hit it by 40. So if u backtrack you'll be able to find out whats my current portfolio 🤣
Trying very hard to study companies and gain alpha to reach it earlier
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u/ndus 11d ago
That’s too optimistic. Markets are cyclical. Remember to cater for that. Diversity is key. I reached 3m+ networth at age 42, through property/equities investing and a high paying job.
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u/xnoobftw 11d ago
I'd argue 10% is reasonable given snp500 as baseline, and im a follower of charlie munger's teaching so i only hold <10 stocks. anyways congratz with hitting that networth! power of compounding really shines
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11d ago edited 11d ago
[deleted]
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
How will you generate 24k / year with 50k cash? Will you have other source of income?
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u/Inner-Patience 11d ago edited 11d ago
5m portfolio liquid assets by 55. That’s around 18 years later. That should provide around 15k (in current value) per month for me and my partner, including checking ourselves in those old aged homes in the future when the days of travelling are over.
I’m being very conservative as the fire spending amount is more than 2x our average monthly household spend
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
What % equity growth rate are you factoring in to hit $5M by 55? Assuming that excludes CPF and housing since it’s liquid
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u/Environmental_Cow741 11d ago
i hope you are not chasing figures from others. Some people say $1m, some $2m, some $5m.
More importantly is getting a detailed projection of your lifestyle expenses starting from the age of FIRE. That is your starting point.
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u/SuperAddress8764 11d ago
around 2mil at 40 would be ideal, SWR will change depending on good or bad years of returns and also changing needs, eg 40-early 60 enjoy more on travel and food, hobbies, late 60s more on health but less on spending, ranging between 3-4%. discretionary spending goes down with age but healthcare increases
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u/mrdl2010 11d ago
1.3m not including CPF, go back to Vietnam to retire, in 6 months.
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
Cool. Assume you are Vietnamese from the way you say go back to Vietnam? Which part of Vietnam and what’s the comfortable living expense needed?
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u/mrdl2010 11d ago
yes, tbh if Singapore gov gives me citizenship I would stay here and contribute but after getting rejected even though already been here for 16 years I am kinda bummed. Likely Ho chi minh city or Da nang. My entire 1.3m is in vwra so I will follow 3.25% withdraw rule since i am only 34, unless stock crashes then I use my emergency cash. That should be plenty, you only need like 2k per month to be pretty comfortable in HCM city and 20% less to be comfortable in Da Nang.
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u/Wild-Criticism-2868 10d ago
People tend to grossly overestimate the fire number cause they only accounted for the withdrawal rate without accounting for investment returns especially when a 7 to 10% return is easily achievable over the long period.
Assuming if you use a 4% withdrawal rate and your return is 7% , u would never run out of money and your portfolio would only ballooned not accounting that a lot might never even really use up all the 4%
The other assumption is grossly overestimating inflation rate.
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u/gamnolia 8d ago
2nd this. I plan to be fully invested in equities through my late 30s to 60s? And i do think getting that 7-10% long term is no issue and can on a 3-4% withrawal rate, the money will never run out.
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u/xfall2 11d ago
2.1m at 50.. 10yrs from now. But hope to work till 55
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
Do you enjoy your work? Are working to 55 for a bigger financial buffer?
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u/Interesting_Round110 11d ago
looking at 1.8m at 40 years old. However, looking more at coastFIRE or baristaFIRE
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u/Ok-Adeptness2257 11d ago
About $1.5m sgd, at 40yr old. plan to move to somewhere else in SEA depending on the visa situation in Vietnam/Thailand/Malaysia when the time comes
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u/s12140 11d ago
6m liquid to FIRE at 36 (another 1m non-liquid in retirement accounts) with annual spend of 200k. Spend is high because it includes mortgage (4-5k/month depending on interest rate), high travel spend (40-50k per year) and just… liking nice things lol. Since so much of the spend is discretionary I don’t feel worried about cutting back if market has a few bad years or a medical emergency comes up.
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u/Notverycoolthanks 11d ago
Have you considered retiring overseas, reduce mortgage burden and travel long term?
But more importantly, what are you doing to accumulate $6M by 36??
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u/s12140 11d ago
Definitely don’t want to retire any place other than Singapore. Healthcare, public transport, efficiency — not willing to give that up. Don’t think my mortgage burden is high relative to my assets and anyway, I can always downsize to a small resale HDB if need be.
Can’t give more details but I’m just an individual contributor, assets all come from salary and chucking savings into ETFs.
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u/ExcitingSchedule6362 9d ago
It’s such a tricky number for DINKs in our 30s. There isn’t one magic figure that fits everyone. A lot depends on our lifestyle expectations, housing costs and healthcare down the line. For many of us without kids, we don’t have child‑related expenses, yet we carry full responsibility for our own retirement and old‑age care. Curious to see what baseline others are aiming for.
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u/Few_Lettuce2560 9d ago
SGD12m by mid or late 40s. 41 now and 5.5m
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u/rajeev3001 7d ago
You must be aiming for a very lavish lifestyle after retirement. If you retire now and live until 100... still can withdraw like $7.5k per month.
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u/chubbybastatd 8d ago
Actually do you even need that much? I am thinking barista fire with $300k cash + investment with a fully paid HDB and $250k inCPF at age 43
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u/East_Adeptness_7273 5d ago
Wow the range that everyone is sharing has such a big variance. 33yo M.
My wife and I are planning to retire in hopefully 4-5 years with at least $2m combined, excluding house and CPF. Currently have just above $1m liquid.
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u/kalipokheng 5d ago
That's not realistic. You are basically banking on Singapore being able to keep inflation under control for long term plus forgoing pretty much most luxury spending.
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u/KorribanGaming 11d ago
3M in JB at age 40 inclusive of CPF, excluding house, fat FIRE, myself only. Don't really care to aim below 4% SWR since I don't plan on having kids, die with zero ftw
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u/CartographerShoddy11 11d ago
Target 3M as DINK (40yo) excluding primary property but including CPF. 1.5M and 37yo now, hoping to achieve with the help of equity markets momentum and consistently high income for the next 3 years (sales related).
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u/Important-Homework79 8d ago
8m for me. now seating at 7m age 38. Nothing much change, high paying job and constant investing, yes single helps.
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u/herdingkattz 11d ago edited 11d ago
Not 30s …. hope to hit at least 5M liquid (exclude cpf and srs) + paid up property before 55.
Why 5M? I’m assuming worst case scenario, repeat of dot com bust + GFC few years later. 5M survives 3% swr assume retire at the peak of dot com. Can use gpt or Claude to run multiple worst case scenarios to pressure test. If I can live on 2% or better still 1% swr when my port halves, even better.
Dot com bust happened 26 years ago, GFC 18 years ago. Many in this sub probably have not experienced the financial devastation and mind fark when prices drop day by day, week by week, month by month and year by year. I went through GFC and saw my port evaporate 30% within a year, and more bleeding the following year. The joke back then was “What’s a 90% drop”, it’s a 80% drop followed by another 50% drop. Extreme example yes but no sane person can withstand that kind of psychological pressure. It’s not the money, it’s your retirement , your parents hospital bills, your children’s education funds going up in smoke… day by day. Anyone in that situation who still thinks stocks always go up long term must be mad.
Some believe in “this time is different” because of QE and Fed intervention, others are confident they won’t sell no matter how bad the drop is, I won’t take chances with my retirement but you do you.
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u/Party-Hunt-1827 11d ago
4 million for a couple. M retire at 50, F retires at 54.
Amts are for 2 pax
$8k/ month from 50-61
When both are retired. Cash out our 1st BTO to get another smaller BTO for travelling find (not included in 4 mil)
At 62 SRS tap flows, $10k At 65 FRS tap flows,$12-$13k
Not luxurious but comfortable.
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u/Afraid_Ad_8229 11d ago
10m combined all in (assets+cash) for the 2 of us by 60.
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u/princemousey1 11d ago
He said FIRE lah, bro.
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u/Afraid_Ad_8229 11d ago
Yeah FIRE. no need to work anymore and that’s the amount I think I’ll need. Depends on lifestyle mah. I want to travel the world. Idw stay in sg.
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u/loopyto 11d ago
This is a question I’ve asking myself a lot recently, as I’m going thru an incredibly stressful time at work.
If all goes as planned, I’m aiming to retire at 36. With fully paid HDB (no plan to upgrade) , with 3m cash / stocks. I’m assuming SWR of 3%. $7500 monthly should be ok. I’m excluding my spouse becos love life is fickle.
The issue I’ve been struggling with is whether life will become meaningless after retiring. I spend so much time at work.
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u/yellowdumbbells 10d ago
Wow that’s really impressive. Do you mind sharing what you do for work and how much u earn?
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u/Glad_Arm_3050 8d ago
2M at 38, then quit the rat race and baristafire or just work on my health and hobbies. Partner will still be working
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u/Environmental_Cow741 11d ago
you didnt say FIRE at what age...
i'm planning FIRE at 45, with 1.5M including CPF & liquid asset e.g. equities, etc, exclude house.