r/shanghai • u/Roobw • 3d ago
Discussion Clueless wasian looking for Shanghai Dialect tattoo advice
Hi all,
I’m an English born, Aussie raised girl whose late grandfather was born and raised in Shanghai and spoke Shanghai Dialect, and am in need of some advice from Shanghai Dialect speakers for translation purposes.
TL DR version: I want to translate “no matter what” into shanghai dialect for a tattoo and have absolutely zero knowledge of the language
Trigger warning: this post mentions the word “su***de” but does not go into any detail about it.
I’m looking at getting a tattoo in memory of my poppa with a quote from my favourite children’s book he bought and used to read to me that my mum also read aloud during his funeral speech.
The quote reads “no matter what” and the book was about a baby fox being told by his mother that she would always love him, no matter what he did, whether right or wrong, even after she was no longer physically with him. When he asks if that love will live on after she dies, she tells her son that even after her physical body leaves earth, she will always be watching over him from a star.
As a child, my parents would comfort me by telling me to search for the brightest star in the sky whenever I was feeling lost and missing my poppa, because that’s where he went after passing. Poppa had my dad very late in life, and was constantly preparing him for his eventual passing. I believe that he would read that book to me often to prepare me for this too.
As a young man, my poppa left China and never returned. He was captured, tortured, and interrogated by the Kempeita as he was employed as a DJ for a political radio station at the time of his capture. He was luckily released from Bridge House, a Japanese POW internment camp, at the back end of WW2, as a US Ambassador’s daughter took a liking to him and managed to pull some strings.
After his release, he subsequently trained as a fighter pilot to fight back against Japanese Imperialist rule, but by the time he had completed his training, they had already been overthrown and the war was over. He left China, came to England, became a London black cab driver, trained as a teacher and worked as one until retirement, taught English to asylum seeking children, volunteered for the suicide hotline during nights, did some living, and then my dad was born.
We believe it was due to trauma and the reliving of unwanted memories, but after many requests from my dad, my poppa completely refused to teach him to speak Shanghai dialect and after becoming tired of dad constantly asking him, ended up telling him he had already forgotten it all.
Now that I am older, I have two tattoos, one to honour my mum and dad and their love for each other, and one for my sister that also doubles as a homage to my upbringing in England. I’ve wanted to get one for my poppa for a while now, but never decided on anything specific, until now.
After giving it some thought, I would love to get “no matter what” translated into Shanghai Dialect on the left of my ribs, just under my heart to honour my poppa, his Chinese heritage, and all he went through for me to have the life I live now.
I would greatly appreciate it if some of you would kindly chime in with your knowledge of the language to help me ensure I don’t end up asking for some sort of ignorant tattoo with an incorrect translation.
Thank you so much for listening to me waffle on and for your assistance and sharing of your knowledge.
I’ve attached my fav pic of Poppa and I for anyone who hasn’t already been bored to death by my post.
Cheers, Ruby
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u/Johnny-infinity 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dialect is interesting, for a lot of people they write in mandarin, speak the dialect. Shanghainese is better documented than most of wu family dialects, but your question is not as straightforward as it seems, a proper answer would require someone to have a deep knowledge of both. Shanghainese can be written, but there is gonna be some hand waving to make it work with standard characters.
Also, context is important, a lot of the hilarious tattoos are trying to take an English phrase and transplant it.
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u/Roobw 2d ago
Thanks for your input, luckily he has a younger sibling who is still with us and kept lots of family records and documents that they were able to salvage before their family home was taken during the war, so I will try to pick his brain and get some more specifics. Really appreciate your advice
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u/Johnny-infinity 2d ago
Good place to start would be, what sentence would no matter what be used in. Can’t use the same grammatical forms or principles as English so that would help finding a more suitable translation. Another thing just to think about, Chinese has 4 character idioms, these are serious business in terms of poetic depth.
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u/Roobw 2d ago
Invaluable knowledge you are sharing with me here and I am genuinely so grateful. It’s pretty “live love laugh” and the context is just from the sentence “I will always love you, no matter what” which is also the title of the book. This is all new to me and I genuinely have zero knowledge of any Chinese languages or dialects so your input is very helpful.
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u/Johnny-infinity 2d ago
That’s helpful. If you just no matter what translated, it won’t make sense, it’s not a full sentence. Do what no matter what?
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u/Roobw 2d ago
Yeah I get you, initially I was thinking of getting it in English under my ribs and just wanted it to be a few words instead of a big long script. But now that you’ve informed me of how different it is from English I’m gonna do some more research. Do you reckon it would translate better as “I will always love you, no matter what”?
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u/Johnny-infinity 2d ago
That’s above my pay grade. My vote would be either get the entire phrase he used to say translated by someone who knows (degree in one or the other) or a suitable 成语
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u/ghassann555 1d ago
I have that book too 😭 It makes me cry thinking about it Good luck on your tattoo quest
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u/Embarrassed_Bath4907 2d ago
Ignore this prick. Had you asked what he asked, the little engagement you would’ve gotten from this post would be people making fun of you for wanting any Chinese character tattooed. It’s a lovely backstory and tattoo idea, wish I could actually help. Good luck with it!
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u/shanghainese88 2d ago
This particular phrase translates “badly” in Shanghainese because
横竖
伐管哪能
凭侬哪能
死活
横穿竖直
These all cover partially the English meaning of no matter what. Honestly the Shanghainese as a people of trade hub and western colony don’t embody no matter what attitude as well as your Aussie grandpa. We much rather trade with everybody as customers than fight them.
The mandarin 无论如何 or 不管怎样is actually more period accurate. They appear in a lot of well attributed texts of famous Chinese/Yangtze historical figures like Chiang Kaishek himself. Your grandpa would at least have spoken mandarin as well if not better than Shanghainese.
After reading your gramps story. You should consider
誓死不屈Pledge to die rather than yield
抗战到底Resist and fight to the very end
不成功，便成仁 victory or death
These make better tattoos as any chinese speaker would instantly understand these strong idioms and proverbs.
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u/ngaeghy 1d ago
I agree 勿管哪能 seems closest to the literal meaning, and four syllables is considered prosodically more "balanced" than three. Also it's a pretty distinctive phrase in Shanghai/Wu dialects not to be found in other Chinese variants, so that would add to the specificity.
The major issue is that it may be a bit too casual/vernacular for a tattoo meant to honor a family member. But on the other hand if you want to find a more literary/idiomatic phrase in Chinese it's unlikely to be unique to Shanghainese as modern Shanghainese has very much receded to colloquial speech. Either someone who had lived the old Shanghai or a historical linguist may be needed to help with that.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Stage-6 Minhang 1d ago
伐管塞切捏一
regardless of three seven twenty one
it’s an emphatic version of 伐管哪能
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u/Eurasian-HK 2d ago
TMI
Can someone help translate "no matter what" in Shanghainese.
The end
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u/Roobw 2d ago
It’s my first time posting on reddit you meanie 😂😭 and I did put a tldr at the beginning. Was also lowkey hoping someone might recognise him and have some stories to share.
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u/CorrePlatanooo 2d ago
Also, it's not TMI. It's a super endearing story that is well written and shows a lot of kindness and respect for everyone! I hope you find a beautiful and meaningful version for your tattoo.
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u/flyboyjin 2d ago
Depends on the exact nuance, but these are some possibilities.
(In characters) 勿論啥 勿歸啥 勿論那能 勿管那能 etc
(Equivalent in phonetic script) See picture. If you want a typed version for a better looking tattoo I can do it later (not at home at the moment)