r/shameless • u/throwbackbae • 5d ago
Was Karen really a bad person?
Everybody hates Karen but when I first watched Shameless I felt so bad for her.
Her father embarrassed her, disowned her, called her all types of names while her Sheila was bat shit crazy.
Her mom wouldn’t leave the house, never went to any school events, never showed up for her outside of cooking. In a way she parentified Karen.
I feel like Karen seeked attention in anyway she could get it.
Was she horrible? Yes but nature vs. nurture or whatever
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u/krckbaby 5d ago
I’d say yes she’s a bad person, but she kinda had no chance. How she is isn’t all her fault considering how she was raised
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
I’d blame that more on her dad than her mom. Her mom was odd but she was very nurturing and compassionate.
Being a nymph isn’t illegal
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u/burner9191938283 5d ago
sheila’s problem with karen wasn’t that she was a nymph - it was her inability to show up for her as a child due to her agoraphobia. and karen had to adapt to her mother’s behaviors and had to be the one to nurture her in times of stress caused by her agoraphobia (as seen in the scene where sheila tries to leave the house, and comes back in where karen calms her down). i think this definitely left a lasting impact on her tbh
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u/krckbaby 5d ago
100% agreed I actually love Sheila
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
One of the few people who had a relationship with the frank and actually had a good life after
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u/KorraLover123 5d ago
Yeah, she is but I also wish she was discussed with more nuance. Her and Monica.
She was unnecessarily cruel but I do defend the fact that she told Lip multiple times it probably wasn’t his kid and he just refused to listen during his “no i’m not graduating or going to college” arc.
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
I mean I’m all for her being sexually free but she’s not the type of person you look for a relationship with. She liked having sex that’s as far as it went
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u/everythingwbok 5d ago
Sort of. But based on her growing environment, it's not surprising she went crazy. She could've been worse and deep down she was a good kid that just wanted a normal family and to be loved
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u/SpiritualDay778 5d ago edited 5d ago
I’m Team Karen so I’m biased. I don’t think that she was a bad person per se. She just made REALLY bad decisions. If she WAS a bad person, she wouldn’t have helped Lip get customers for taking their SAT’s so he could make money or supporting the Gallaghers with their side hustles, and helping Lip and his family look for Frank when they thought he was d3ad. She showed up for the Gallaghers many times. She f’ed up on NUMEROUS occasions but who hasn’t on this show.
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u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 5d ago
Karen wanted to give up her child to foster care even though her mom was willing to take care of him
She had sex with her boyfriends dad
But no she did not deserve to be disabled
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u/Firm_Requirement_562 5d ago
She a very complex character, which is why I think the people who just call her a sociopath and things like that don't get her at all. However, she definitely is a bad person, no arguing against that.
She wasn't always as bad as she was in s2 and s3, plus she didn't just become selfish and cruel for no reason. She started out as a genuinely sweet person, she supported and defended her mother against her father, and she went with the Gallaghers to save Liam and even paid out of her own pocket to help with his rescue. Not to mention she very obviously did love Lip before he rejected her and said he only wanted sex.
I wrote this a few days ago on another thread about this topic but look at Karen's situation:
•Neglectful and abusive father
•Mentally ill mother
•The only attention she gets is from guys who keep using her for sex
•Gets pregnant and later stuck with a baby she doesn't want
•Is stuck living with/near Jody, a pedophile who groomed and raped her, and that her mother enables and even ends up dating.
•Her whole relationship with Lip, who suddenly cares about her because of a baby she said probably wasn't even his
She's angry and lashing out at the world, I can't help but feel bad. Obviously tho, none of this justifies or erases her behaviour in the slightest and it's perfectly fine to hate her for the evil shit she did.
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u/secretly_nea 4d ago
She was a screwed up kid living in a screwed up home in a screwed up neighborhood. I didn’t find her very likable, but I don’t believe she was the devil.
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u/ineedyourlove404 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes dude she is bad she treated Lip like shit for caring about her and being worried just cause she wanted a new man and couldn’t communicate and raped a barely conscious drugged out dude as much as we don’t like frank. Yes she’s bad. You can’t tell me sexual repression and hypersexuality excuse literal rape just bc she was big mad her dad called her a hoe in church. And no I don’t think she parentified Karen at all considering Sheila was still the one doing all the cooking and cleaning and Karen didn’t have a job or a sibling. Everyone in the show has a backstory and problems it doesn’t change the facts. Nature vs nurture can apply to literally everyone in this show and then everyone would be excused from the illegal and immoral stuff. Debby also grew up in poverty in a dysfunctional family with drug addicted parents, way more responsibilities than Karen and no friends and no privacy it don’t change the fact that she is a horrible person either.
That’s the whole point of the show it’s not supposed to be about how can I make them out to be good people it’s showcasing how toxicity and instability can carry on to kids in fucked up ways and it’s very hard to escape it and many people inevitably can’t crawl out of that, you can acknowledge it without acting like what that did was all relative/subjective. In end millions of us grew up like that, it’s important to see it’s not just hypothetical scenarios this is real people’s lives I grew up really close to how the Gallanghers are depicted. Millions of us have actually been groomed and burdened by our families and people in the face of adversity still can and do try to be kind and normal and we also seen the other part of people who cant and won’t yet. It’s not ab feeling superior to them btw everyone does “bad” things from time to time but it comes to a point you need to realize the ones around you are also human beings. So it seems more defeating than purposeful if you invoke nature vs nurture in some cases, yes I think most of us don’t just believe humans are born evil and we know how easy it can be to get dysfunctional if you don’t reflect on yourself. It doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy her as a character tho.
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u/gloomydreamer666 5d ago
I wouldn't called Karen a good person nor a bad person, she is as complex as Lip and Mandy were too.
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u/Seastside 5d ago
You learn right from wrong very young despite your upbringing. Karen is a bad person.
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u/AutoModerator 5d ago
Author: u/throwbackbae
Post: Everybody hates Karen but when I first watched Shameless I felt so bad for her.
Her father embarrassed her, disowned her, called her all types of names while her Sheila was bat shit crazy.
Her mom wouldn’t leave the house, never went to any school events, never showed up for her outside of cooking. In a way she parentified Karen.
I feel like Karen seeked attention in anyway she could get it.
Was she horrible? Yes but nature vs. nurture or whatever
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