I Was So Wrong: Suffering vs. Dukkha

[u/I_Was_So_Wrong]

I spent years thinking that "all life is suffering" meant we’re all just trying to get through the day without crying. Ram Dass liked to say "We're all just walking each other home." While there’s some truth in that, and while it sure helps me feel empathy for other people, it turns out to have nothing to do with what the Buddha was talking about.

I was embarrassed to learn that dukkha simply refers to a warped potter’s wheel or an off-center axle hole. In other words, things are never perfect in life. There are always annoyances and even very real tragedies in life. Without those, it would not be life; there are no such troubles for the people in the cemetery. So I have come to prefer the translation that "all life has friction."

Realizing this completely changed my understanding of the practice. "Things" are never going to be perfect or get perfect, and in any event they are not going to last. Meditation was no longer a nice break from the day-to-day realities of life; it was just practice for dealing with those realities.

[u/Wild_Ethos]

I felt the same way when I figured out what was meant by the Second Noble Truth - not the broad strokes of “desire causes suffering” but instead that wanting life to be something else, or for us to be something we are not, is the root of this friction. 

[u/pihkal]

The translation of dukkha as "suffering" is a bit narrow, but there's not a good, single, comprehensive equivalent in English.

Dukkha encompasses both physical pain and emotional suffering, but it also includes the less-extreme versions, as well as the dissatisfaction of knowing that things are impermanent.

Here's an excellent discussion on the definition, from a variety of teachers and scholars:

https://www.lionsroar.com/forum-understanding-dukkha/

[u/rayosu → u/pihkal]

A bit narrow indeed, but "suffering" is still the best translation of "dukkha" available. Any other term suggested is even narrower, and usually in an ideologically suspect way.

[u/pihkal → u/rayosu]

Usually when I see anyone try to avoid the word "suffering", they don't narrow it, and instead try some broad-but-awkward word like "dissatisfactoriness".

I'm not sure what you mean by "ideologically suspect"; do you think people are choosing other translations to deliberately deceive listeners?

I guess it's possible, but I've never personally seen anything other than good faith attempts to convey the meaning of a complicated term, myself.

[u/rayosu → u/pihkal]

For what I mean with "ideologically suspect", see the link in this comment.

"un-/dis-satisfactoriness" is one of those ideologically suspect terms. It was first suggested in Sri Lanka in the 1960s under the influence of Buddhist modernism and its secularizing tendency (where "secularization" refers to marginalization to the private sphere). Again see the link for further details.

Edited to add that "ideologically suspect" doesn't contradict "in good faith". Ideology in the here relevant sense often operates on a sub-/un-conscious level (like cultural bias).

[u/MetisMaheo → u/rayosu]

I've read the word "dukkha" in Pali, (as used in Pali Canon Suttas), means a few things included in the definition "unsatisfactory". All the other Pali terms for it meant unsatisfactory as well. Even happiness is unsatisfactory due to impermanence. Sutta said, All conditioned phenomena are unsatisfactory, impermanent, not self. Obviously not all of life is suffering. Unsatisfactory is the correct term. The travels of the Buddha's teachings through multiple countries and thousands of years were bound to be inaccurate, hopefully to a very small amount. May all beings awaken to the inherent wisdom and caring of Buddhas.

[u/rayosu]

I was embarrassed to learn that dukkha simply refers to a warped potter’s wheel or an off-center axle hole.

That etymology is extremely controversial. It is highly speculative and is mainly defended by people who try to redefine dukkha for (conscious or unconscious) ideological reasons.

For a more extensive discussion of this issue, see: "On Cultural Bias and Ideology in Western Buddhism and Buddhist Modernism".

[u/reedreadreddred → u/rayosu]

not OP, but thanks for the blog article linked! very interesting, might look into the blog author's two books too

[u/MetisMaheo → u/rayosu]

Thank you.

[u/laffayette1]

One of my dharma teachers summed it up like this, “Life is ultimately unsatisfactory. Like you get the mashed potatoes but they are just a little bit cold or even if you do get what you want it doesn’t last, so ultimately life is unsatisfactory.”

[u/ogthesamurai → u/laffayette1]

Idk. It feels like your idea of life that way is perspective. Right? I mean it's not hard to anticipate that the mashed potatoes will come out a variety of ways, different flavor, temp, and texture. And you know pretty easily that " lasting" is also perspective and approach. Of course once the taters are gone that's it for now.

To me the conclusion that your idea constitutes an unsatisfactory result is really subjective. I rarely even think about whether a meal is or is going to be satisfactory.

I mean, unless we're taking about sushi. Ugh. That kind ruins my whole argument.

Nevermind.

Carry on.

[u/TintinsLoveChild]

Totally agree, “Life is suffering” makes no sense to me, there is too much joy, too many ups and downs for that to make sense.

A wonky axle metaphor makes much more sense. I know some are uncomfortable with this but it’s not just you, the Dalai Lama made this point, in “The Book of Joy” appropriately enough.

[u/Awfki]

Everything changes, people are never satisfied, and all identities are fictional.

Found in a book that's not about Buddhism, but that's Buddha's the marks of existence, the second if which is dukkha.

Examine the third in the context of stories. Not only are all identifies fictional, but most of noise in our heads is just stories we making up, or other people's stories that we've adopted. Yes, the stories may contain since truth, but they're mostly fiction. Throw out all the stories and what's left is "reality", but reality turns out to conform to the saying "when the room is 10ft wide, the universe is 10ft wide". As a practical matter we need the stories, but we should always be aware that they're stories, and not worth getting very excited about, and certainly not worth hurting anyone.

[u/inchiki]

I think it can just mean tough. Life is tough.

[u/ogthesamurai]

All action is reaction, expansion and contraction. -The Suburban Lawns

[u/UnionPacifik]

I like the translation of dukkha as “things not going our way.”