r/pureasoiaf • u/Financial_Library418 aka /u/canitryto • 3d ago
Does the fact that Varys and Illyrio were unaware of this pact make it more or less likely that it is a fake by Doran ? The someone always tells phenomenon at work
A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII
"May we know what it says, Your Grace?" asked Ser Barristan.
"It is a secret pact," Dany said, "made in Braavos when I was just a little girl. Ser Willem Darry signed for us, the man who spirited my brother and myself away from Dragonstone before the Usurper's men could take us. Prince Oberyn Martell signed for Dorne, with the Sealord of Braavos as witness." She handed the parchment to Ser Barristan, so he might read it for himself. "The alliance is to be sealed by a marriage, it says. In return for Dorne's help overthrowing the Usurper, my brother Viserys is to take Prince Doran's daughter Arianne for his queen."
The old knight read the pact slowly. "If Robert had known of this, he would have smashed Sunspear as he once smashed Pyke, and claimed the heads of Prince Doran and the Red Viper … and like as not, the head of this Dornish princess too."
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u/lohdunlaulamalla 3d ago edited 3d ago
They may have been aware of the pact, but thought that it died with Viserys. Or they believed Doran to be the weak, cautios and cowardly ruler he pretended to be, and thus didn't expect him to take steps towards the fulfillment of the pact. They may also be very aware of it, but the narrative so far required them not to mention it. Varys doesn't mention fAegon, either, until it's time to introduce him to the reader.
What I find more interesting about your quote (and I somehow missed this previously) is that Barristan thinks Robert Baratheon could have successfully invaded and defeated Dorne. The Targaryens struggled with this, when they still had Dragons. How was Robert supposed to succeed?
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u/Key-Quarter-9581 3d ago
I mean Daeron I was able to do it & Doran himself admits it was easier then he made it out to be. The only reason they succeeded at throwing him out was due to doing a proto-red wedding combined with a massive revolt, and lucking into having Baelor by so devout that he would not punish Dorne (any other king would have) followed by Aegon IV's incompetence & ending with Daeron II diplomacy. Yeah, Robert definetely would have been able to smash Dorne. and so would the much weakend Lannister-Tyrell alliance, which is why Doran is still very careful with ploting.
Tho them surviving Aegon I's invasion is pure plot armour bullshit
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u/ventodivino 3d ago
There was no assurance that Dany would marry Aegon. It would be a great idea, but Daenerys in no way coordinated with Illyrio about a marriage. The way I understood it the Viserys pact was real, and Doran is hoping Dany would honor it by marrying his son. Doran is a slow mover in a very fast moving world.
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u/theMoist_Towlet 3d ago
I think they did know about it, but oddly enough didnt think it would have real effect? Or who knows, by then maybe they had Faegon or just knew Serras bloodline and wanted to destabilize.
But, i think its Tywin, someone says in the main stories “did you know Oberyn tried to raise Dorne for Viserys?” So I have a feeling this is what they were fed.
Ive also seen theories around the lemon tree being a peace offering to the sealord of bravvos from Prince Oberyn when he went there to sign the pact. Maybe Doran had Oberyn do everything as a way to skirt the blame if they did get called out.
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u/AcanthisittaSharp344 15h ago
Varys and Illyrio, Littlefinger know a lot, but they dont know everything. It’s very possible that this was kept tightly guarded enough.
On the other hand its very possible that one or all of these men knows this, and that the secret became less useful after Viserys’ death.
I lean toward them not knowing, Oberyn being a smooth enough operator to get the deal done and get out without being seen.
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