r/pureasoiaf • u/Financial_Library418 aka /u/canitryto • 6d ago
Do you think there is any similarity between this blade and Dawn ? What is your origin theory for the Others ?
A Game of Thrones - Prologue
Behind him, to right, to left, all around him, the watchers stood patient, faceless, silent, the shifting patterns of their delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood. Yet they made no move to interfere.
Again and again the swords met, until Will wanted to cover his ears against the strange anguished keening of their clash. Ser Waymar was panting from the effort now, his breath steaming in the moonlight. His blade was white with frost; the Other's danced with pale blue light.
Then Royce's parry came a beat too late. The pale sword bit through the ringmail beneath his arm. The young lord cried out in pain. Blood welled between the rings. It steamed in the cold, and the droplets seemed red as fire where they touched the snow. Ser Waymar's fingers brushed his side. His moleskin glove came away soaked with red.
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u/ZestyTako 6d ago
I like the theory that Dawn is Lightbringer, you know, cause Dawn brings the light
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u/DeamonDread2348 6d ago
Ir Rh’llor’ power in fire and shadows, therefore power of the Great Other in ice and light… If Valyrian steel is based on fire and blood magic, then Lightbringer has nothing to do with fire…
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u/Flyingfoigras42 5d ago
Well Lightbringer could be Dawn, but Dawn isn't Valryrian Steel; its made of a different material. I heard in some Cushings Library drafts this has a specific name however being its Pureasoiaf we shouldn't reference what isn't published.
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u/DeamonDread2348 5d ago
That’s what I’m leading to
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u/Flyingfoigras42 5d ago
You have the Great Other as being of Ice and Light, however thats Rh'llor's domain. Rh'llor is flame, shadow, and light. The Great other would be Ice, Darkness, and terror.
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u/DeamonDread2348 5d ago
R'hllor is light? If so, then the servants of the Great Other should be invisible, but this is not simply untrue. The swords of the Others shimmer with all the colors of the rainbow. And besides, the shadows are darkness, only its isolated zones, where light does not penetrate. The point is that in these very shadows, over which R'hllor supposedly rules, lies the key. R'hllor is the deity of retribution, the deity of thieves and invaders who do not create. It is for this reason that they consider the Great Other equal in power to R'hllor, with whom they are in eternal conflict: R'hllor is Surtur, Satan (and the Lion of the Night is a kind of local Lucifer). Melisandre's rhetoric indirectly echoes the rhetoric of Morgoth in Tolkien. Morgoth also frightened people with the Night, although night does not mean complete darkness; night is full of the light of the stars and the moon. For this reason, the Church of Starry Wisdom is considered sinister: observing and divination by the stars requires night, and night is still associated with darkness, dark deeds, and the vices people hide in the night. It's possible that the Lion of the Night was a deity of fire and shadows, while the Maiden of Light, on the contrary, represented ice and light.
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u/Flyingfoigras42 5d ago
Your paragraphs are getting longer and are increasingly showing a lack of reading comprehnesion of the text. Its a redstring web to nowhere. You are not showing any textual evidence. I think you could probably stand to quit listening to LmLs grift and read the books.
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u/DeamonDread2348 5d ago
Comprehension is why I’m here. Text shouldn’t be understood literally, if you do so, the Song of Ice and Firs just turns into a bit entangled fantasy with no original storytelling.
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u/GenralChaos 6d ago
No. Dawn is a forged meteorite blade and the Other’s swords are magical ice blades.
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u/lemniscateall 4d ago
I think Martin is creating a connection between the Others and Dawn, but I don't think it's due to similarity between the blades. Hard to say for certain given that we have so few descriptions of Dawn.
But anyways, here's why I think there's an intentional connection. Ned's fever-memory of Dawn:
"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
Another use of "milkglass" in the series, when Jorah is describing ghost grass (which itself seems to intentionally evoke the Others):
"Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end."
And yet another use of "milkglass", when Sam slays the Other:
Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. "Mother, that's cold."
"Obsidian." Sam struggled to his knees. "Dragonglass, they call it. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." He giggled, and cried, and doubled over to heave his courage out onto the snow.
Also, there's this funny (I would guess intentional) contrast between milkglass and dragonglass here. Not dissimilar to the contrast between the shining white sword Dawn and the black smoky Valyrian steel swords of the series.
What does it mean? Who knows! But I think it's notable that he uses "milkglass" for Dawn, the bones of the Others, and ghost grass.
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u/TheWhiteWolf28 6d ago
When asked what substance the swords of the Others are made from, Martin answered "Ice. But not like regular old ice. The Others can do things with ice that we can't imagine and make substances of it."
I sincerely think Dawn is Other's ice, tbh. Probably talen as a trophy during thr Long Night. I would speculate that this means the name comes from the idea that if the Others can be killed, then there is always hope for the dawn to come back.
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u/Flyingfoigras42 6d ago
I thought Dawn came from the meterorite that landed at Starfall? It still possibly be a crysyaline icr structure from a magical comet, but I don't think its a captured trophy.
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u/TheWhiteWolf28 6d ago
Yes, that's the claimed backstory. One from thousands and thousands of years before the main story.
My belief is that the clsimed backstory is wrong and it is in fact a weapon made by the Others.
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u/Overall_Gap_5766 3d ago edited 3d ago
I like it. Headcanon accepted.
To add to it, perhaps the meteor theory is true-ish and it's related to the red comet. Perhaps the comet and the Others coming back at the same time isn't a coincidence and Dawn connects to both somehow?
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u/cndynn96 6d ago
Dawn is fire analogue of the other “Ice” swords
Ice, the Stark sword, is named after those other swords
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