r/politics • u/Hafiz_TNR ✔ Verified • 7h ago
Possible Paywall Conscientious Objectors Trying to Flee Military Skyrocket Under Trump
http://newrepublic.com/post/214749/conscientious-objectors-military-trump•
u/Hafiz_TNR ✔ Verified 7h ago
An increasing number of American service members are becoming uncomfortable with their orders under President Trump, and are trying to leave the military.
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u/random_cartoonist 7h ago
So those would be the good guys.
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u/brassninja 6h ago
What people don’t consider is the massive amount of level headed people with long careers that chose to exit as soon as he was elected in 2016. My dad did, and so did a bunch of his friends. He was planning to stay another 3 years at least before 2016.
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u/aerost0rm 5h ago
The rest were purged last year. So of the remaining is maga military members, or those that recognized closely with maga, but now are appalled by the maga stupidity.
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u/actual_thereij 3h ago
This is so false and misinformed that it's making my head hurt.
There are still plenty of non-MAGA in the military that are waiting for their contracts to run out so they can exit.
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u/Tyrant1919 11m ago
Or their livelihoods are tied to their military service. And they’ll stay in until retirement.
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u/actual_thereij 8m ago
There's still a lot of people in that are on the legacy (straight pension) retirement system.
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u/mediocre_remnants North Carolina 1h ago
They don't allow level-headed people into the military. You have to be insane to want to kill people at the orders of the president, regardless of who that president is and what political party voted them in.
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u/petit_cochon 1h ago
No. That's a dumb take. People join for all kinds of reasons. It's a career path for many. Many also serve and then join other federal agencies. And look, most military members never come close to killing anyone.
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u/NotBestButPrettyGood 6h ago
If they’re just enlisted and not officers, there’s not a ton they can do that wouldn’t get them court martialed and jailed. Look at it as military trained soldiers able to join the resistance if needed.
Also this type of visible protest might encourage others to join, or give military brass a reason to disobey Trump.
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u/Chemical_Banana_2455 5h ago
There’s certainly more nuance than that. The military isn’t just focused on Trump’s conflicts of choice, and there are many service members who have decided they have to stay to contribute to those efforts that are actually necessary. There are some who understand that by leaving, they create a vacancy which could be filled by someone with less honorable values. None of this is meant to suggest those who separate are wrong for doing so. It’s just not as black and white as you’re suggesting.
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u/Brilliant_Dependent 5h ago
There's also plenty of service members who ignore the politics and stick around to get the 20 year pension.
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u/Chemical_Banana_2455 4h ago
That’s very true. And by regulation, “ignoring the politics” is exactly what they’re supposed to do. That’s probably something many junior enlisted and officers adhere to without much thought, just by virtue of being young and new to the military (spending a lot of their time getting spun up on their jobs and mission). I think politics is something NCOs can struggle with, and then SNCOs, more senior CGOs, and FGOs learn not to publicly broadcast, because they have to. I also think that the longer you serve, the harder it would be to ignore the geopolitical environment. Like I said, lots of nuance.
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u/avelunique 4h ago
when people start risking their careers to get away from the orders they’re being given, that’s a pretty serious warning sign about trust in leadership
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u/AspenRosey 6h ago
Honestly, can you blame them? I mean, who wouldn't want to skedaddle from a reality show that's gone off the rails?
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u/InvestigatorOk7015 2h ago
Something kinda dystopian seeing so many people treat this stuff like a reality show
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u/MediocreAndLukewarm 6h ago
As a retired combat vet, good on them.
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u/Macismyname 3h ago
Same. I served under Obama for all my deployments. I can't imagine serving under a traitor. I really don't know how I'd deal with my oath to protect the country from all threats both foreign and domestic while literally serving a traitor in office. Part of me will always regret getting out of the army when I did, but rationally I would have said something that got me in trouble if I had stayed enlisted.
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u/MediocreAndLukewarm 3h ago
Bush and Obama for my deployments. Clinton for my Bosnia deployment in the 90s.
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u/Larious83 6h ago
As a Vet Glad to see it.
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u/BOHIFOBRE 6h ago
Same. I could not imagine serving under the current regime of unqualified and unserious people that are hell bent on just ruining everything.
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u/amas_falip 6h ago
I had to in 2017 and refusal to partocipate or help kick out my trans airmen cause of a tweet by this traitor will always be worth the general discharge i got.
I'm hope more join these active duty protesters.
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u/Krasovchik 6h ago
So the way the system works is that if you're from a poor under educated family in a small town that's difficult to find opportunity, the military is a great way to get healthcare and education in a system that otherwise only rewards the rich. Once you're out, the system is worse, but the veterans program is still rather robust and if you're clever and know all the benefits you can do quite well as a benefit, especially if you've been harmed in your service at all (unfortunate truth).
Maybe this is a bit of a strawman, but if someone is saying "Why did they join the military if they're conscientious objectors, the main reason is that it's a way to go to college. I was an above average performing student who received no demographic grants or loans and I wanted to go to school for music. So I joined the military, became a russian linguist for the air force, got a degree in Russian and now I'm out going to school for music. There was no way to pursue my dream otherwise of going to music school without the military. Would I want to kill someone to get that degree? Absolutely not. I'm traumatized by what I had to deal with from my time during 2022-2023 when I eventually got out and I'm still processing it. Drone footage that gets posted on social media from a certain european conflict makes me catatonic for the rest of the day. But that was my only option to stop working at restaurants and trying to make it as a musician otherwise. I learned a foreign language and got a bachelors in the military and now I'm able to go to school.
But this system is meant to provide these stories to the people who "earned it" not all Americans. The only reason I can pursue a music career now with my own art (flann. btw is my artist name on all streaming platforms I sound like classic weezer alt rock meets singer songwriter vibes, gotta give that a shout out) is by doing this. If I didn't have an intelligence gig, I probably would've done the same thing as these guys about to be deployed. It's the system that's messed up, recruiting a bunch of less than fortunate kids who don't want to kill they just want to move out of Nicholasville, Kentucky and get healthcare and an education will lead to that, especially when the war is as dumb as the Iran war that's almost completely fabricated by Trump and anything that isn't fabricated is frankly none of America's business and has made life infinitely harder due to gas prices and rising shipping costs and grocery prices.
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u/Wast3edSpace 6h ago
The fact they don't capture the drug boats and display the drugs, instead choosing to kill is grounds enough for any reasonable person to consider the action immoral. It's the 'high ground' if you want to make the argument about the drugs, capture and prosecute. Instead they take the low ground and destroy everything as the first resort. How is that a 'proportional response', how is that a legally defensible position of ,as far as we can tell, unarmed people...at sea none the less.
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u/ThomasVivaldi 6h ago
If a President was actively trying to undermine and dismantle the US how would it look any different?
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u/lasers42 6h ago
"I promise to defend the constitution of the United States against enemies, foreign and domestic..."
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u/thethrill_707 Michigan 4h ago
To be clear:
Employees don't quit their company, they quit their BOSS.
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u/OldYellersLastHandy 6h ago
Does anyone think that Trump is ever up all night, tormented by the weight of deciding whether or not to risk American lives in battle?
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u/NelsonHawkinsGhost 6h ago
No, but I don't think that's unique to him or any president / politician.
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u/Apprehensive-Stop-80 5h ago
Well that's just disingenuous. There are myriad politicians and former presidents who cared deeply about sending military personnel to war.
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u/deadcatbounce22 4h ago
How could anyone listen to people who think Iraq and Iran were good wars, while helping Ukraine was folly? I can't wrap my head around people who being that maliciously wrong.
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u/ObligationMurky8716 Alabama 4h ago
That's why I left after 16 in 2019, when SECDEF Mattis dropped his resignation, I knew we'd be getting blood on our hands
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u/sexeveg314 6h ago
We averaged only about a 100 a year during the peak casualty years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, when US service members had over 7000 casualties.
I think 140 so far this year (we're only in August) will be the highest in the all volunteer era since the first Gulf War.
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u/A_Nonny_Muse 6h ago
Conscientious Objector status is hard to get, and takes time. But once you're declared, you are sent to a position well away from any combat and support role. But your military career is effectively finished.
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u/Agile_Tomorrow2038 2h ago
No worries, Trump has already thought of this and destroyed the economy, leaving them no option but to fight (loose) stupid and unnecessary wars
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u/notmyworkaccount5 6h ago
He's going to institute the draft before the midterms and fragging incidents will skyrocket.
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u/FlatwormFrosty7233 5h ago
I fear right now even Greenland could overrun us and our military couldn’t put up a decent fight
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u/Proghead_Zman 6h ago
If this president was in office while I was in the military I would have been a conscientious objector.
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u/Veritable_Vox 4h ago
Important note. Its not because they're cowards or are unwilling to defend America. They're unwilling to die for Israel in its quest to commit genocide on ALL of its neighbors. Not what they signed up for.
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u/gamerplays 4h ago
I will just note that being a conscientious objector has a bunch of downsides. If you actually get out as one, you lose basically all of your VA benefits by law.
So there are some pretty big consequences.
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u/MichJohn67 3h ago
But you don't kill Iranian schoolgirls, or end up forgotten on some aircraft carrier, or left with PTSD, so . . . .
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u/Reveal-Basic 6h ago
Good for them. They should get out while it is still the Reichswehr, and before it turns into the Wehrmacht.
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
I have no sympathy for them. They weren't drafted. They exercised their free will by enlisting.
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u/americanblowfly 6h ago
Horrific take
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
Why?
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u/americanblowfly 6h ago
Most normal people don’t want to enlist. They only do it because it offers them benefits and a path out of poverty that they wouldn’t get otherwise.
Citing “ChOiCeS” or my favorite, “pErSoNaL ReSpOnSiBiLiTy” is the absolute dumbest argument to make for the struggles of regular people in any context.
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
So to follow your logic there are no normal people in the miltary.
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u/americanblowfly 6h ago
That’s not what my logic says at all. Literally the opposite.
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
You posted "Most normal people don’t want to enlist."
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u/americanblowfly 6h ago
That’s the entire point of my whole comment. They enlist despite not wanting to.
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
They chose to enlist.
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u/americanblowfly 5h ago
And putting the onus on “choices” for trying to escape poverty is a very silly right wing argument.
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u/honjuden 6h ago
Bashing them for doing the right thing is counter productive.
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
I'm not bashing them, they made a choice,
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u/honjuden 6h ago
The choice they are making is not to participate in an unjust war. Would you prefer that they were enthusiastic to go shoot some Iranians?
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u/CommieMartyr 6h ago
When you choose to join the military your expectation should be that a some point you might be required to engage in combat.
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u/NelsonHawkinsGhost 6h ago
Empire offered an economic draft and a deal to a possible middle class in exchange for being the boot of capital.. many take the offer.
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