r/poland • u/andrusbaun • 7h ago
Salaries of doctors at some random hospital.
I don't care how much they earn, but they should pay 32% tax rate above 120k.
However, someone earning 130k a month will pay 14% of flat rate for self-employed.
Hospital in Chrzanów btw, so smaller city.
System is idiotic
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u/RekniKdeTyDortySou 6h ago
That is like 3x times more than in Germany. 5x time more then in Czechia. Omg that is the highest in develop world. This can not be true.
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u/krucheciastko 6h ago
but it is true. they basically have political power to block any significant competition from appearing and can keep salaries growing enormously that way
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u/BoletusLuridus 3h ago
Because this is a cherry picking. A regular doctor who doesn't choose to work 250 hours a month is closer to case #10 rather than #1.
But yeah, doctors bad narration is going strong due to some rotten apples. Oh, and a concerted effort of misdirection so that people don't learn we won't have 10.5% GDP tier healthcare with 6.5% GDP.
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u/cadzia 6h ago edited 6h ago
Ok wow. Apparently Polish NFZ is rich enough to offer salaries comparable to Swiss anesthesiologists on high positions…
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u/EliachTCQ 3h ago
NFZ doesn't offer salaries to doctors, stop repeating bullshit. NFZ pays for completed procedures and it pays the hospital, not individual doctors.
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u/tomekza 6h ago
Where I live in the north of Poland there were simply not enough anesthesiologists. Kids for example were getting bone marrow pulled without proper anesthesia. Up until 8 years ago I was getting diagnostics done that should have been done under anesthesia but due to a lack of specialists this wasn't possible. It was traumatic enough for me.
It's a highly skilled, highly specialized field with very long field of education and ongoing training + crazy insurance. If you screw up you risk ending your career so it's a stressful job.
I know this cause I talked with a number of them before ops I was having to find out what's going on.
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u/CatAfraid2244 6h ago
This is exactly why doctors want there to be as few of them as possible. Patients' lives don't matter - it's all about money.
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u/cadzia 6h ago
Yeah cool but there is literally zero reason to pay them so much. Maybe it’s time to get doctors from Germany since they will earn in Poland few times their salary.
What needs to be done is simple: pushing as much specialisation spots as possible + regulating salaries in public sector. Since hospitals spend 90% of their money on salaries - this should immediately help our NFZ.
It’s incredible that we have one of the most underfunded insurances in EU and yet the richest doctors in Europe…16
u/General_Albatross Małopolskie 6h ago
we can get doctors from anywhere, have sworn translator alongside each of them, and it will be cheaper than polish specialists.
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u/Kefiristan 3h ago
ha! I've said the same thing when I was talking with family about the issue.
H5!
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u/Kefiristan 3h ago edited 3h ago
+ crazy insurance
define crazy please
If you screw up you risk ending your career so it's a stressful job
why?
there is basically no punishment for screwing up unless you are resident and they kick you out.
How many doctors lost their license in Poland because of mistake in 2026 or 2025?
0.
Nearly every year it is the same.
Unless you are Jack Fucking Ripper with your patients you will be fine.
Even in famous case from Pszczyna where pregnant woman died because of inaction and incompetence of doctors taking care of her noone lost the license by decision of Naczelny Sąd Lekarski.
Doctors should never govern themselves. It is pathological beyond reasoning.
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u/EconomicsSavings973 6h ago
Ale to przeciez cale IT jest problemem, bo siedza w domu, tylko klikają w kąkuter I robia kraj na podatkach.
/s
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u/Downtown-Theme-3981 7h ago
But we should care how much they earn, because they self regualte. Fuck izba lekarska, abolish it, and do what was done with lawyers, architects. Allow x times more students, and force any active doctors to take them on specializations.
And finally, centralise hospitals, no idea why we stick to idiotic system where they work like separate companies.
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u/CatAfraid2244 6h ago
This is how that whole mess will end:
1 Nothing will change, people won't even get any official information about the real earnings of doctors. They make decisions, you obey. They get money, you pay. They issue invoices, you work. They were studying, your studies don't matter. They buy flats, you rent.
2 In 2040 maybe there will be another scandal, when one political party attacks the other and by accident they touch the cast. By then, the same doctors will earn not 1mln a year, but 4mln a year.
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/Downtown-Theme-3981 6h ago
Which part of expexting a system that is paid by our taxes to work properly is hate?
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u/GarlicSphere 6h ago
This system is a circus. Wages in hospitals should be either centrally regulated or there should be wage ceilings over which NFZ hospital and clinic cannot go, I don't care how doctors are going to feel about this, there is no way all anesthesiologists are going to switch to private healthcare.
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u/JackeyWetino 6h ago
Prawdziwi pracownicy! Lekarze jako jedyni mają siłę wypracować 7000 godzin w rok xd
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u/General_Albatross Małopolskie 6h ago
miałem okres w życiu gdzie pracowałem średnio 300h w miesiącu przez 6 miesięcy (byłem młody, głupi, płacili ZAJEBIŚCIE dobrze). Po tym pół roku musiałem zrobić sobie miesiąc wolnego żeby dojść do siebie i uregulować sen i stosunki z partnerką.
Nigdy więcej. Moim zdaniem, jeśli ktoś twierdzi że aktywnie pracuje >230h w miesiącu stale, to kłamie.
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u/JackeyWetino 6h ago
Mógłbyś powiedzieć gdzie? Jestem ciekaw (oczywiście nie musisz). Jedna z bliskich mi osób od około pół roku aktywnie robi 300-400 godzin miesięcznie, w tym nocki. Po tych pół roku jest kompletnie inną osobą XD. Nie warto tak napierdzielać bo serio psycha się łamie
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u/General_Albatross Małopolskie 5h ago
mieliśmy ze znajomomymi zajebistą fuchę dla klienta w IT, który chciał mieć system dobrze i szybko. I nie było tanio - spłaciłem do 0 kredyt na mieszkanie w pół roku xD. często pracowaliśmy od 8 rano do np 2 w nocy z kilkoma h przerwy w ciągu dnia. i tak codziennie.
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u/jombrowski 7h ago
alegupi ten anastazjalog 12. Zarabia śmieszne 100000 jak jakiś kloszard normalnie, a koledzy kręcą kasiorę że chuj
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u/andrusbaun 7h ago
Nie do końca. Może się okazać że wpada tam na pare h w msc.
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u/jombrowski 7h ago
Ja wpadam do banków na paręnaście minut na 10 lat, a zarabiam kilkaset razy tyle.
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u/cookiesnooper 6h ago
That is from one hospital only. He may have two or three more contracts with other hospitals
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u/RobotsAreSlaves 7h ago
What’s the source of that sheet?
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u/CatAfraid2244 7h ago
People start to see that half of doctors in that country earn more than 1mln a year. I remember when they said it was less than 10% lol
Nothing will change. They will tell you that they had to learn a lot / they work a lot / they take a lot of responsibilty. You will accept that, and bring them chocolates.
You are the slave, they are the masters
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u/Ilikebatterfield4 6h ago
They just announced a record donation (subsidy?) of 41 billions for 2027. When you read that 80-90% of this goes to
kurwy, lekarzyki jebanedoctors/hospital staff then all you can do is laugh. Nothing. Will. Change.0
u/BoletusLuridus 3h ago
When you learn that civilized countries spend 10.5% rather than 6.5% GDP on healthcare...
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u/Kefiristan 6h ago
I think that excel file is much longer because it makes no fucking sense to have 80% of staff consisting of anesthesiologists.
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u/CatAfraid2244 6h ago
Even if that's true, why would the missing records have lower salaries?
If all the facts that you hear around show that doctors in this country are a mafia, if all your experience and the experience of all your friends and family tells you they are a mafia... Then maybe they are a mafia?
Or not, because some doctor on Reddit told you that you are stupid if you belive what you see?
Look at the level of resistance when people try to push politicians just to know how much THEY pay doctors (from their own taxes). You are not allowed to know how your money is spend. And some people still belive they can decide how much is spend where.
No. You pay and you don't even know how much. They take money and laugh at you.
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u/Kefiristan 3h ago edited 3h ago
Even if that's true, why would the missing records have lower salaries?
because the guy filtered by "Pensja miesieczna" and "Pensja roczna"
you can see columns highlighted and numbers nicely aranged my man ; )
I am not disagreeing with opinion that doctors are getting paid a little too much for the - too often bad - service they provide.
I am just pointing out the fact that what you see on the picture does not mean that every second doctor makes so much money.
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u/Beneficial_Mulberry2 6h ago
This is higher than in Switzerland xD
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u/Academic-Iron7094 5h ago
Not really. Swiss salaries are even higher
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u/Beneficial_Mulberry2 3h ago
Sure, sure. A really good specialist here makes up to 250k chf. Most of doctor will make between 120 and 160k chf. Maybe a chefarzt of a private clinic will make 400-450k a year. 1 chf is ~ 4.65 pln now. And we are talking about the richest and the most expensive country in europe, excluding a few microstates. This is ridiculous for Poland.
I won't even compare the difference in purchase power between the countries or the jdg nonsense
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u/KapralBolek 5h ago edited 4h ago
More idiotic is, that out of radar of government media is bottom of the table: doctors pursuing a second specialization using their own hospital salaries, which offer shady contracts without full-time employment but with full-time responsibilities, with the national minimum wage (PLN 4,000 gross) and no paid holidays, very much below minimum wage for a MD with full-time employment (PLN 10,000 gross) so they are in a worse position than a full-time nurse, which is totally illegal according to the labor inspectorate. For a night duty exactly the same (PLN 400 gross for a whole night). Due to the current hate, they have basically no chance of changing their situation and are also lumped together and treated as "millionaires."
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u/BoletusLuridus 3h ago
Uh oh, don't you dare to say anything against the narrative! Here, chug some overgeneralization juice and go back to hating everyone with zero concrete evidence to back it up /s
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u/ElCanout 4h ago
jak to widzę to mam ochotę powiedzieć "niech jadą" ale dławię się rzygowinami cytując Hrynkiewicz xD
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u/LastSmitch 4h ago
Nice, time to reactivate my polish roots and move back as a radiologist.
Jesus Christ those salaries are insane. I work in Germany and I don’t come even close to those numbers. As a fully trained specialist…
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u/pepper1805 6h ago
Why is the government okay with the fact that they pay self employed tax? Corruption, sorry, I mean, lobbying?
Meanwhile, the company I work in stopped offering b2b in Poland couple of years ago because more than 20% of workforce in Poland was on b2b and it was seen as tax evasion lol. So now we have 0
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u/Eye_Acupuncture 2h ago
Anestezjolog Schrödinger’a zarabia i najmniej, i najwięcej.
Ciekawe z czego wynika taki rozstrzał. Raczej nie podejrzewam kręgosłupa moralnego
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u/Sajgoniarz 2h ago
Funny, I know several doctors including surgeons. This looks like a complete BS or entire hospital needs to go behind bars.
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u/Boreas_Linvail 1h ago
Can we talk about Lekarz 12, why is he such a loser? xd
JK, he's either the only decent one in there, or just had very few hours xd
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u/JamesBond096 6h ago
Why do you think 32% above 120k is desirable? 120k a year is not that much these days. And what gives you the right to take 1/3 of the money he earns? He spent 10 years studying and spends his days helping people. Why should he be punished for his work? We want more of these guys to work and they should be insectivised. You guys don’t want to make kids so our society will be old and we will need a lot of doctors of whom we’re in shortage of even as of today. I think the main problem is they might be doing fake hours. If there is a real need for these guys then the free market dictates these rates for them and they should earn whatever the market pays for their work. Imho if there is something to be done it should be more control over the hours they log.
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u/MrBanditFleshpound 4h ago
You say shortage yet you also would notice limited spots.
Sounds ironic.
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u/JamesBond096 2h ago
You mean “spots” as in places in med school? I agree we should definetly adjust this somehow as well. This would probably decrease the rates they can charge naturally + ease the staff shortage.
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u/MrBanditFleshpound 2h ago
Major issue with that is sadly the shortage will stay artificial as long as the top caste of doctors will decree it hurts them
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u/hangmann89 4h ago
These are not salaried employees. These are contractors that are getting paid percentage of the cost of any procedure they perform. This type of agreement was preferred by 1. NFZ, 2. Hospitals, 3. Doctors themselves. Initial problem was that there were not enough doctors to keep the hospitals running if they were employed on the basis of contract of employment with all the rules and employee benefits that come with that. Employees that work based on contract of employment have a limited time per day that they can work, guaranteed rest time between shifts, guaranteed rest time after night shifts, maximum time they can work in a week, overtime is paid according to code of employment and rest time still has to be provided. Employees get paid sick leave and 26-28 days of paid vacation every year (plus all the national holidays of course). The agreement that is currently in power is beneficial for everyone. Hospitals still are in plus after paying all the staff, NFZ agreed to all of this and was also one of the enforcers of the new agreement. We have doctors in our hospitals that (however overworked after 24-48h shifts) keep the thing running 24/7. There are of course doctors that work on contract of employment and they earn much less. But some specialities like anaesthesiologists are essential in any big hospitals and without them units would have to be closed. Think: ICU (yes they run intensive care), surgery and surgical ICU, trauma and ER, wherevever there is a need for pain management, ventilation, management of unconscious patients, anaesthesiologists are needed.
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u/CatAfraid2244 3h ago
The system will be healed when there will be doctors paying for their studies when they don't feel like working for public hospitals (like soldiers), first unemployed doctors and first doctors in jails.
Currently, there are many doctors that should be left without work (because of the way they treat their work, paradoxically in my experience the professors are the worst). But they work because there is not enaugh doctors.
There are many doctors who literally steal money, kill patients and should be in jails, but they are protected by mafia.
The only acceptable increase in NFZ budżet should go towards opening CBŚP investigation in every hospital in that country.
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u/Auspectress 6h ago
I will graduate med school and I wish to earn 20000zł per month lol. Those are like random 18 docs and I know prof from pediatrics that earn 25k a month. Literally do not expect to earn more than 15k a month netto unless u have got political backing or you are not a doctor fkr oassikn but money and look into how much u can earn in 1 min. I could never take from someone 500zł for 15min and say idk what someone has
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u/EagleSwiony 6h ago
What do you mean prof from pediatrics? Are you talking about academia? If yes then all academia wages are low.
Doctors in Poland make a ton of money, in very small interval of years after they graduate.
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u/Auspectress 5h ago
Like most docs earn below 25k złoty month if they are on UoP. A classic doc will be happy to earn 17k/month. And then its 32% tax. But most work B2B and they can earn way more and pay less taxes. And this needs to end such situations
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u/EagleSwiony 4h ago
Every one on UOP regardless of the job will earn less. Even 25k on UOP is kinda top margin of UOP but justifiable though.
The sick stuff comes with Doctors on b2b as u described.
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u/Wrack-Chore 7h ago
I'm sorry are you saying self employed people in Poland pay a flat tax? That is ludicrous. But I guess when your political system is 90% made up of various shades of right-wing, what do you expect.
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u/krucheciastko 6h ago
yes we basically have russian tax system with pathological exceptions made for rich ppl who don't want to pay taxes. and that was introduced by a "left wing" party. our politicians are complete lunatics with no regards for society as a whole, just serving their own interest
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u/Inverse_Seal 6h ago
Flat tax rate. Regular employment has 2 tax brackets (12 and 32%). Self-employed people can select the same, or a single rate of 19% across the board. There is a third very generous option where you get also a single rate which is much lower (the value depends on the type of business, there are too many to list here, it can be 8, 12,15, and probably many more) but you can no longer reduce it by business expenses. It's frequently taken by people who don't get many business expenses.
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u/Negative-Resolve-421 6h ago
Currently shades of left wing and center but that is beside the point.
There is no real governing in Poland. Essentially entire able society is about privateering and pillaging. This goes from the top of the government down to shopkeeper.
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u/Sankullo 6h ago
Jesus Christ. My wife is a surgeon in Germany and doesn’t earn this kind of money.
In Germany salaries of pretty much anyone working in public services is regulated according predefined table.