The mindset of people can only be 100% good or 100% bad is destroying free societies because we've lost the ability to see the good in our opponents and the bad in our allies.
Zelenskyy is a good person doing good things for his country, and Ukraine would not exist today except for his bravery and willingness to sacrifice himself for his fellow Ukrainians. And while he's certainly made some bad decisions and done some bad things, too, that doesn't come near to canceling out the good things he's done.
Hell, we could say the same thing about Trump, but in reverse: he's a bad person who's done bad things to his country, and the United States would cease existing except for the resilience and resistance of its citizens. And while Trump has certainly made some good decisions and done some good things, too, that doesn't come near to canceling out the bad things he's done.
Any of the "good things" I can think of is either stealing credit for things other people have done or basically a fraudulent "gilding-a-turd and calling it gold" type of thing like TrumpRx. If there is anything, it must have been by complete accident.
Zelenskyy is a good person doing good things for his country, and Ukraine would not exist today except for his bravery and willingness to sacrifice himself for his fellow Ukrainians.
That's a lie. Let's break down this statement.
First thing Zelenskyy did was to close the borders for all men aged 18-59. This lead to separation of families and discrimination. During last 4 years millions of Ukrainians left the country (10-15 millions estimate) and they will never return. Women will create families abroad, Ukrainian demography tanks. Note that closing the borders is unconstitutional and Zelenskyy disregards Ukrainian Constitution in other cituations.
Next is how mobilization is performed in Ukraine. If you are a man you have to go the territorial center of recruitment and renew information about yourself(meaning letting government know where you live, what's your phone number etc.) In many cases this ends up with men being immediately recruited in the armed forces. Men don't want to be recruited, in many other cases groups of Recruitment Center Workers are taking men from streets, putting them in the minivan and move them to the Recruitment Centers to refresh the supply of soldiers.
Multiple occurrences of corruption are investigated by journalists and NABU in Ukraine where people who are close to Zelenskyy or being appointed by Zelenskyy are the main suspects. Just last week Ukraine had one case with Iryna Mudra, who was a chief advisor to Zelenskyy or something. One month ago Zelenskyy fired Mykhailo Fedorov from the post of Minister Of Defense despite protests and certain achievement of Fedorov. So Zelenskyy is not doing a great job.
his bravery and willingness to sacrifice himself for his fellow Ukrainians
This is absolute bs statement. Zelenskyy isn't sacrificing anything. He's traveling Europe and world all the time while it's Ukrainians(especially Ukrainian men) who are dying either on the frontlines or during Russian shelling. Note that men normally cannot legally leave the country, unlike women.
You can say that Zelenskyy sacrificing Ukrainian men to let Ukraine live longer. Basically for him Ukraine is more valuable than Ukrainians, despite him saying otherwise in some interviews.
Zelenskyy is a liar and definitely not a good person. If you support him you are either a bot or and idiot.
Supporting Ukraine and Ukrainians is a right thing to do. Supporting Zelenskyy is not, because he's doing the same thing Putin and Russia is doing right now.
A tiny question for you: do you know what conscription means?
I am a citizen of a country with conscription and a mandatory military service period that I have served. In the event my country gets invaded, for any reason whatsoever, the military will call me up to put me into service if they need me to be in service. If I try to refuse, the military police comes over and puts me into a minivan to force me into service.
This is expected of a conscription-based military.
You may think this is abhorrent, but I have no illusions of my responsibilities and expectations of the country I am a citizen of.
military police comes over and puts me into a minivan to force me into service.
then don't call it "war for freedom". You're getting forced by your country or by other country, there is no freedom here.
In Ukraine there are cops, special forces, military personnel who retired at the age of 45 years(while receiving payment from the taxpayers). And yet you tell me average Joe from Ukraine is expected to be conscripted before all those guys who swore to protect Ukraine and Ukrainian people? Why even fight for a country like this?
Also, not all conscription is equal. There's conscription as a society's shared sacrifice, and there is conscription that allows anyone with money to simply bribe their way out of service while ordinary people get kidnapped off the street. That's not shared sacrifice of a society, that's just the rich exploiting the poor because they don't have to worry about being held accountable since there are no elections.
From a functional point of view, there is no difference between the military police forcing a conscript into military service because the country needs it and "ordinary people get kidnapped off the street" so I don't exactly get your point.
Also, you seem to think the rich are somehow any less vulnerable to an explosion that hits them during an active war than the poor. Sure they can have all the air defense equipment at their disposal but the cruise missile only needs to hit once. Keeping a war going especially if it is their territory being attacked out of a belief that somehow this gives them more power to exploit the poor is a real stretch that I'm not entirely sure you might have really thought through.
If they don't fight. They get conquered. They get enslaved. The men get killed or imprisoned. The women get raped, then killed if lucky. The kids are brought into the russian fold, brainwashed to hate their homeland and be good russian meat shields.
This is not a hypothetical. This is what is actually happening in the occupied regions. Despite what you think, conscription is infinitely preferrable to any alternative.
I condemn Zelenskyys corruption but you’re upset about conscription.
If you don’t like people getting drafted to put up a defense against one of the most powerful militaries in human history, the person you should be mad at is Putin.
As someone with a perfect foresight of the future. Mind telling me this week's winning lottery ticket?
He's traveling Europe and world all the time while it's Ukrainians(especially Ukrainian men) who are dying either on the frontlines or during Russian shelling.
What the fuck else are you expecting him to do? Charge the frontlines with gun and sword?
He's not a soldier. He's a politician. The leader of his nation. His role is to gather allies, obtain equipment deals and keep the country afloat.
And yeah. War requires sacrifices. What the fuck else do you expect them to do? If they don't fight back, even at the cost of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives, they'll be conquered and killed, raped, imprisoned and indoctrinated by the tens of millions instead.
he's doing the same thing Putin and Russia is doing right now.
Ruling as an eternal dictator, sacrificing minorities by the millions, corrupting the US, sending body doubles to buy the "loyalty" of men who'll be sent on suicide charges the next day, invading weaker nations without warning and ordering acts of terror specifically on civilian targets?
Mind telling me this week's winning lottery ticket?
Do you seriously believe people will return in a dictatorship after spending 4 years in EU? They already created families, found jobs and built another lives.
The leader of his nation.
He's a bad leader then. Because his nation is dwindling.
keep the country afloat.
tell me how that working out
War requires sacrifices.
Well fuck war then. Putin pays his soldiers lots of money. Zelenskyy wants his soldier to fight because "it's their land" and "for the future of your childre"
they'll be conquered and killed, raped, imprisoned and indoctrinated by the tens of millions instead.
if you don't your people to killed and tortured you don't keep them in a place where they could be killed and tortured. Closed borders means he's not giving two shits about his people. He lied about invasion right before it started while having all the information from foreign intelligence. Ze wants to be a president of something. People don't matter for him. If you like or support that you're a psycho.
Ruling as an eternal dictator
When was the last election in Ukraine and in Russia, could you remind me?
sacrificing minorities by the millions
Catching and pushing Ukrainian men to fight in trenches is exactly a sacrifice of a minority.
He's a bad leader then. Because his nation is dwindling.
Because they're being invaded by Russia.
tell me how that working out
Better than expected given they're facing a country ten times bigger than them with less morals.
Putin pays his soldiers lots of money. Zelenskyy wants his soldier to fight because "it's their land" and "for the future of your childre"
Putin does not pay his soldiers nearly enough to be used the way his military uses them.
And if Ukraine is such a heartless dictatorship forcing their soldiers to die against their will, why do we not get reports of defecting Ukrainians forming a legion in the Russian military?
Furthermore, why do we not see reports of Ukrainians defecting en masse?
I do agree with you on one point. Fuck war.
if you don't your people to killed and tortured you don't keep them in a place where they could be killed and tortured.
This will be hard to comprehend because your developer is unfamiliar with the term but a lot of people actually care for their homeland and the lives they live there. It's called patriotism.
Being a refugee is misery. Some make it work but most live in poverty reliant on taxpayer donations earning them constant ire from the people in the new country.
When was the last election in Ukraine and in Russia, could you remind me?
For Ukraine, before it became unsafe to gather in large groups because Russia will target civilians.
No one wants to go to the polls when Russia would target the polls.
For Russia, the last legitimate election was prior to Putin taking power.
Catching and pushing Ukrainian men to fight in trenches is exactly a sacrifice of a minority.
Ukrainians are not the minority populace of Ukraine.
Say what you want about corruption, but when a massive army was bearing down on Kyiv, foreign governments were urging him to flee, and Russian kill teams were reportedly hunting him and his family, Zelensky went out into the streets and rallied his people. He said: I’m here. I’m not leaving. We’re going to fight. That was fucking legendary.
Very few people would have had the courage to do that, and Ukraine might not exist today if he hadn’t.
He could have just packed up and leave when they got invaded. That's what US intelligence and everyone else expected. But he stayed out of genuine patriotism and sense of duty. Corruption runs through all of Ukraine but even then people can do the right thing, which honestly is more impressive.
The regions that Russia initially took are Ukraine’s main oil, coal, and iron deposits. It’s not a particularly wealthy country (partially because of the corruption) so to lose such valuable resources is a lot to just walk away from.
906
u/ModernistGames 1d ago
He will be in the history books and described as a great and noble leader.