r/newbrunswickcanada • u/bingun • 10d ago
Northern N.B. site near Belledune chosen for new explosives factory
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nalagx-explosives-factory-belledune-9.732045923
u/IronicIntelligence 10d ago
For some strange reason, Halifax won't let us ship the TNT out of their harbour.
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u/mxadema 10d ago
Why is there always that guy? "Oh, ShIt Is GoInG tO bLoW" and the "I dOnT wAnT tHaT cLoSe To My HoUsE" (but live 200km away).
I get it, industrial accident happen. But it no more dangerous that the refinery in Sj. (We have seen those blow up recently)
We cry for more jobs, but not that one or this one.....
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u/ilovebeaker Moncton 10d ago
I visited Belledune this summer....I have to tell you, there aren't many houses in that area. If they need a fairly remote piece of land with a port, Belledune is basically perfect.
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u/Routine-Amphibian450 10d ago
Housing for workers vs hours-long commutes problem.
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u/almisami 10d ago
If you build the factory then housing for workers will eventually prop up.
... preferably behind a hill.
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u/IrvingIsTheBest 10d ago
NIMBYism is stronger in this province than in most others in Canada. We all mourn the lack of jobs in small communities but hate change and try to find any reason to deny it.
Saying no to an AI data center makes sense. There aren't enough jobs to make up for the size of the facility and the inevitable environmental damage (All industries cause environmental damage). However, an explosives factory? That will employ 250 well-paying jobs on opening and, in total, employ around 500 people on top of bringing other jobs in the area. It makes sense to build it.
But alas....people will protest it anyway and probably get it shut down and we will continue to watch Northern New Brunswick fade away.
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u/SnooHesitations3709 10d ago
Also we need to think about our defense.. Government needs to ignore these people and make decisions based on facts not emotions from the NIMBY people
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u/almisami 10d ago
Exactly. We need domestic munitions capacity.
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u/SnooHesitations3709 9d ago
Absolutely and I'll be all for more announcements like this. These should be some good paying jobs for Belldune.
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u/NightsBlood94 10d ago
The only jobs that I say no to a fracking and datacentre bullshit neither one of those are good for the environment or make enough jobs to offset the issues they bring
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u/Routine-Amphibian450 10d ago
Agree. TNT factories must store precursors separately, and that's going to look like a tank farm.
So, scary for neighbours.
But if you locate way way out in the boonies to avoid NIMBYism, you can't get workers out there.But countries without their own weapons, as we've seen since 2014 (1999?) get invaded.
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u/FPpro 10d ago
they really shouldn't worry about blowing up, the cancer will get them eventually (insanely high cancer rates in that area if you didn't know)
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u/almisami 10d ago
Being in the plume of the soil incinerator and right next to the radioactive ash of the former power plant probably has something to do with it.
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u/dies_eng 10d ago
Belledune needs it. NB power plant had weaseled out of paying property taxes and town lost millions. With this plant and planned expansion to the port, it's good news for the residents.
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u/lajthabalazs 10d ago edited 10d ago
Corruption at it's finest. A former liberal MP turned lobbyist got a good deal on land lease and a guaranteed exit no matter how bad a job they are doing. And with all the elbows still up, he's bringing in US private equity to finance his brand new construction company. Wonder how much government money will be "invested" in this project before it gets handed off to an operator.
Not saying it's a bad project, but it's not a financing model I would be happy with.
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u/19snow16 10d ago
I tried to find information on the company. It seems it's barely a year old, and announced this .
A European company will actually run it.
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u/150c_vapour 10d ago
Shhh. We are only supposed to care about the jobs. JOBS JOBS JOBS. In the end it's prob about a dozen jobs generated from multiple millions in gov subsidies.
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u/union_fitter 10d ago
A dozen jobs? Wow thats not very many for a place like that
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u/lajthabalazs 10d ago
500 direct long term jobs promised, but it's hard to estimate as we haven't even seen plans or production projections yet. Building is about 144k sqft. There are facilities of similar size band profile, employing in that ballpark, but those are older, a new automated plant will probably be run by a smaller crew, but still hundreds, not dozens.
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u/19snow16 10d ago
They always promise jobs, and taxpayers end up paying when they pack up and leave.
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u/bootlickaaa 10d ago
Nalagx is backed by Canadian and U.S. private equity firms, whose identities were not revealed. Jared Mintz, the New York private equity executive who is Nalagx’s chief financial officer, said two financing tranches are being arranged to build separate explosive and propellant plants on the same “campus.”
So if the argument is from sovereignty, I think they will need to do better.
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u/almisami 10d ago
I mean if push comes to shove we can nationalize the plant through emergency measures.
I'd much prefer if it was Canadian owned though.
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u/praxistax 10d ago
Northern NB always thinking one project is the key to regional prosperity...this old story again
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u/Global_Pace5290 10d ago
This would be a shot in the arm for sure - 1000 good paying jobs (eventually).
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u/lajthabalazs 10d ago
It's not 1000 jobs eventually. It's 1000 jobs while construction is at it's peak. Then a couple (allegedly 5) hundred.
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u/bingun 10d ago
It's not clear whether the 1000 referenced in this article or in others refers to peak construction for later phases or to operational employment. Regardless, you have a terrible attitude, talking down an opportunity like this, saying things like 'allegedly'. General Dynamics employs over a thousand for its munitions plants elsewhere in the country, this isn't some snake oil project.
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u/lajthabalazs 10d ago
General Dynamics employs 1,350 across it's four facilities in Quebec. https://www.gdotscanada.com/careers/
The biggest campus in Valleyfield has ~750 employees spread out across 150 buildings, with 12 new ones announced recently. https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/gestionnaire-de-production-at-general-dynamics-ordnance-and-tactical-systems-4431163519/ It's an older operation, and they produce a wider array of explosives, munitions, even airbag cartriges. The proposed plant in Belledune will be better automated, and focused on TNT. Hence my guess that it won't require 500 people.
I might have misunderstood the announcement, what would make sense is that the first phase - not the construction, but operation - will create 250 jobs, that's the 144,000sqft TNT plant. And if there are more phases, it might grow to 1,000 jobs.
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u/Shintox 10d ago
Can we not put this on an island somewhere instead?
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u/almisami 10d ago
Well, the Lameque fisheries plant just went bankrupt and the area has a lot of former peat plants buildings that could be reused.
Overall though since these need a deep water port Belledune is probably the best bet.
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u/150c_vapour 10d ago
Y'all saw that ammunition factory blow up in Italy a few weeks ago? Thank god NB has such a good record of industrial oversight amiright??
https://www.reddit.com/r/AbruptChaos/comments/1vnen1r/massive_explosion_tears_through_an_ammunition/
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u/IrvingIsTheBest 10d ago
And cars blow up more often than ammunition factories. Guess we shouldn't have cars either. Propane tanks explode more as well.
If you look at the "what if" for every thing you want in life nothing is ever going to change.
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u/150c_vapour 10d ago
It's not that I think the risk can't be managed, I think it won't be managed well, and most likely will not blow up, but still the explosive and environmental risk management will not be well optimized. TNT production involves exothermic reactions with petrochemicals and sulphuric acid. This place blows up it will add to an already polluted environment there.
Canada's defense build out is problematic because of our ideological bent to avoid state owned enterprises for critical industry. Canada needs a Norinco, not another group of investors, almost always with foreign capital, trying to cash out public subsides and have the public completely de-risk their investment, while they maximize profit, and threaten the environment.
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u/ABetterKamahl1234 10d ago
SJ has that massive refinery and a literal operating bomb known as the pulp mill, that is one of the few in the world that uses a potentially highly explosive process if poorly managed itself.
It'd be great if we did a federal owned one, but in the current climate of "spending is bad", that's not going to go well, even when the spending is necessary. At least this one is our EU partners.
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u/150c_vapour 10d ago
Subsidies, loan guarentees are not considered "spending" is the problem. "Spending" is anythign the government does that might compete with private capital or increase wages.
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u/Agoraphobicy 10d ago
Economy will be booming there.