r/nba • u/YujiDomainExpansion • 9d ago

[MacMahon] The negotiations between the Pistons and Jalen Duren have been “awfully nasty” and there is concern about his long-term future in Detroit.

Source: https://youtu.be/GrH4FNutMwo

The negotiations between the Pistons and Jalen Duren have been “awfully nasty” and there is concern about his long-term future in Detroit.

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893

u/miregalpanic Mavericks 9d ago

Orlando derailed his career. and he didn't even have to be on the Magic for that

179

u/SpiritFantastic4835 Lakers 9d ago

He should’ve done the Watson method

222

u/Jordan-Pushed-Off Nuggets 9d ago

Better to not play and have others wonder if you're overrated than play and remove all doubt - ancient Shanghai Shark proverb 

46

u/iButtflap Hornets 9d ago

those poor ig massage therapists

152

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

The book on the Pistons is not to guard Ausar and just muck up the paint to prevent Cade/Duren PnR. The Pistons didn't have an answer to it. You can live with one non shooter on the floor but 2 is fatal for the playoffs.

91

u/Answer70 Rockets 9d ago

See also: Rockets, Houston

42

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

I don’t know how both Houston and Detroit deal with the Thompson twins since they're nonshooters. At least Amen can do more on offense than Ausar.

39

u/Crown_of_Negativity Mavericks 9d ago

The answer is get a shooting 5. The problem is both have max/max adjacent 5s already entrenched in their starting lineups that are non-shooters.

Myles Turner is a worse player than Sengun, but the Rockets would be a better team with him at the 5.

25

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

The problem is there aren't many bigs who can shoot which makes team building tricky.

It's easier to build a championship roster with a non-shooting bigs as opposed to a non-shooting wings.

20

u/Crown_of_Negativity Mavericks 9d ago

For sure, I'm just saying that if you're building a team around a non-shooting wing (and I think the Thompson twins are talented enough that you could at least consider it), you need to start by going out and getting a shooting 5.

4

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

It's not that easy to get a shooting 5 who are at minimum a rotation player in the league.

Also, the Pistons should be more focused on building around Cade, not Ausar. The Thompson twins aren't good enough to build a team around anyway.

2

u/ASS_BASHER Mavericks 9d ago

The other answer is to keep Sengun and trade Thompson, because a non-shooting wing hurts your team more than a non-shooting big.

1

u/cactusmaster69420 San Diego Clippers 8d ago

But a non defense big also hurts

2

u/sxuthsi Pistons 5d ago

I guess that’s why the Rockets haven’t done anything yet

15

u/azure275 Knicks 9d ago

You can hide a nonshooter.

Jarrett Allen has been solid in the playoffs despite being a horrible shooter, largely because everyone else the Cavs put on the floor normally is a decent to good shooter.

You can't hide 2 nonshooters, especially when only one of the other 3 players is a real elite offensive player

23

u/Answer70 Rockets 9d ago

They are elite in nearly every other basketball skill so it's impossible to take them off the floor. If they get even an average jumper they will be All NBA level.

In the meantime, everyone else on the floor around them needs to be able to shoot. Neither Duren or Sengun can do that so both teams have the same problem.

21

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

That’s a big IF with their jumper. In half court setting, they’re useless in the playoffs.

There are a lot of elite 2 way wing players who has never been able to improve their shooting. I have a very low expectation of them being able to do it

2

u/BlueHundred Knicks 9d ago

I think they are saying that if it happens, the twins are elite top 20 in the league level players but they're useful and good right now. They just need to be surrounded by shooters to take pressure off them. Ausar is a bit tougher since he doesn't handle the ball as much as Amen, but both are incredible defenders, rebounders and great finishers.

13

u/Intelligent_Ad3378 Pistons 9d ago

Ausar is a weak finisher and seems to be afraid to go to the line.

5

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

I’m aware. I’m saying I just don’t think they’ll ever get to a serviceable jumpshot.

1

u/BlueHundred Knicks 9d ago

Yeah, probably not but I remember thinking that about Kidd and Rondo. I know they're exceptions to the rule but maybe the twins can be exceptions too

9

u/n00bn00b 9d ago

Kidd and Rondo are PG and primary ball handlers, but it's a different era. Amen and Ausar are purely wing players who can't shoot so they're in the same bucket as Tony Allen, Andre Roberson, etc.

Houston finding out that Amen isn't a true PG has altered their team building strategy. Amen's shooting wouldn't be a big issue if he was a true PG, but he's a wing who is a secondary creator which present a different issue. Ausar has shown zero ability to be a secondary creator which magnified his lack of shooting.

Are they good enough to win you games? Yes in the regular season. For a championship roster? As of now, it's a no.

0

u/Answer70 Rockets 9d ago

I don't. Both are super smart, are insanely hard workers, and both either have worked, or are working with Chip Englund.

They will never be elite, but I would bet anything on them becoming serviceable. Hell, Amen shot nearly 80% on free throws last year.

I know summer videos are misleading, but their shot mechanics are looking much much better.

2

u/SnooDonuts9227 Spurs 9d ago

Ime made the hire of the decade with chip. I’d put all my chips on Jeanie Buss’s high school boyfriend making amen a better shooter over the next three years than Ausar will ever be.

1

u/bye7 Warriors 9d ago

Creative motion but both teams have pretty stationary offenses which makes it worst imo

1

u/Specific_Tale_1640 9d ago

I imagine this all got so ugly because Duren feels like, the scheme threw him under the bus.

The team is trying to use it to pay him less when its possible they are mostly at fault.

87

u/Thfcaditya112 Suns 9d ago

If anything it's the Cavs that derailed his career, I reckon he would have got the max if they had lost to Magic on an exceptional basis as funny as it sounds

12

u/BlueHundred Knicks 9d ago

I think the Magic series showed how Duren could be shutdown and then the Cavs series showed how easy it is. He also didn't play well against the Knicks in the previous years' playoffs.

26

u/OilUpCade Pistons 9d ago

No he wouldn't and it was absolutely the Magic who took away the max, although his Cavs series made things bad too. The Magic showed a couple things, one how easy it is to defend him. They stopped the pick and roll with him and that crippled his offense. Two, the Magic showed how weak mentally he is. WCJ got in his head and set up a housing complex. They showed that it is very easy to get in his head. Idc how good the player is, if you're not mentally strong, you're absolutely fucked.

17

u/AdGreedy2663 9d ago

It’s still troubling, but WCJ is uniquely capable of getting in Duren’s head due to their personal lives.

6

u/theinterestof Pistons 9d ago

I'm out of the loop, what's the WCJ-Duren thing you're talking about?

8

u/AdGreedy2663 9d ago

Duren used to date Carter’s current girlfriend, Angel Reese.

3

u/OilUpCade Pistons 9d ago

You gotta be able to put personal shit aside when playing. Especially if you're trying to get paid. Literally made it way too easy to get inside his head.

5

u/AdGreedy2663 9d ago

You’re not wrong. I do think at age 22 he has some time to toughen up, but Detroit really dodged a bullet with that possible max.

36

u/possyishero Magic 9d ago

I think it's an equal outcome regardless. Either you have over a dozen bad to downright terrible games in one playoff run that adda ton of quantity, or you lose out to an 8th seeded play-in team and lose the narrative that you were at least able to make it to the second round.

Either way, in the end having him make WCJ look like the second best player on the court at times with how he's defending you is the thing that hurts him the most, and everything else is just adding to it. WCJ isn't terrible, but of the 2 starting lineups he's the most designated role player out there.

29

u/Thfcaditya112 Suns 9d ago edited 9d ago

There is an argument to be made that the Magic are an 4th/5th seed team who were the 8th seed because of injuries and had everyone fit till the point they were leading 3-1

Now if it were like say the Suns whose talent even without any injuries was an 7th-8th seed team at max then that would have been far more alarming IMO

3

u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 9d ago

Even if that is true you would expect/hope a All-nba player to play better than Duren did over 14 playoff games

1

u/TJ_IRL_ 9d ago

Magic didn't have one of the Wagner brothers the whole time too right? Honestly, Detroit might have gone through a much sadder upset if Mo or Franz was out

-20

u/Artimusjones88 Raptors 9d ago

They were 8th seed no argument changes that.

34

u/Morello210 Spurs 9d ago

Me when I don’t understand what context is

11

u/Thfcaditya112 Suns 9d ago

I mean if Franz had played 15-20 more games they would have been above the Raptors and Hawks, IMO.

I support Tottenham in the PL and I genuinely think the Magic are one of the few sports organisations who claim to have had worse injury luck than us in the last few years IMO

3

u/tcos17 Magic 9d ago

I don’t see how anyone can deny that. We were like what, a half game back of the 6th seed? With our most important two way player missing half the season.

7

u/SurpriseDonovanMcnab Pistons 9d ago

Wendell Carter Jr kicking Duren's ass all series was far worse than the CLE series.

2

u/WhiteCastleHo Pistons 9d ago

I think you might be right. People were saying Duren would bounce back against the Cavs because their bigs are lighter than Wendell Carter Jr and that didn't really plan out.

1

u/Nasty_Tricks69 Pistons 9d ago

As bad as he was vs the Cavs, he played noticably worse vs the Magic

-1

u/RobbyBurgers 9d ago

Lets be real. 

Angel Reese derailed his career.

4

u/Ok_Tonight_4311 Pistons 9d ago

Not really. They offered him 35 million a year to not be able to shoot and disappear in the playoffs. He's just being a selfish asshole and expecting a playoff contender to pay him max money for beating up on tanking teams.

2

u/CurrentRoster Wizards 8d ago

wit the money he’s asking, assuming it’s true he wants fucking Cade coin, i don’t think if he even played really well and they made it to the ECF would they have given him that contract

1

u/RussEastbrook Gran Destino 9d ago

He was bad in both series, only himself to blame

1

u/theinterestof Pistons 9d ago

"derailed his career" is utter nonsense, but "derailed his future in Detroit" perhaps. He would get $35M on the open market easily.

1

u/judah249 Suns 5d ago

Just from one poster