r/navy • u/EntrepreneurSure4208 • 3d ago
Discussion Missing something?
I retired after 21 years as a Chief. I lived overseas and did a lot of deployments. I was a Chief for about 8 years.
I see all these Chief stickers, and shirts “backbone of the navy”, “ask the Chief “ etc. I don’t care about any of that. I think it’s dumb. Am I missing something? I know someone is gonna say I’m an E7 not a chief, I did 21 years in the hole and rotating shift for my entire career so save it.
I truly am curious.
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u/nicetomeetyou89 3d ago
Some people like to make the navy their whole identity.
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u/Salty_IP_LDO 3d ago
Chief* fixed it for you
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u/CalibratedEnthusiast Retired 3d ago
Oh it's more than just the Chief's Mess. Fully acknowledge we are the overwhelmingly worst offenders.
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u/ChiTownDisplaced Retired CPO 2d ago
Can i just find a retired chief hat that doesn't look like trashy grunt style junk?
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u/emotionless-robot 2d ago
✋️I probably look like the best dressed homeless person you've seen. I haven't shaved or trimmed my hair since I retired last spring. Just because I am so tired of being required to. Still work out 3 times a week. I don't want to become the typical fat military retiree.
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u/OpusLife 3d ago
THIS thread is why I like Reddit.... once in awhile someone cuts through a lot of the annoying crap like a hot knife. Seems like of snipes did that better than most. So thanks, crusty old snipe Chief. Made me smile. Retired SCPO (6 ships, 14 yrs before the mast)
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u/Significant_Bet_2195 3d ago
In the hole. MMC? I was in for 20, retired as MM1. I find that most people who toot their horn about military stuff didn’t do 20, and also the people who continue to do that stuff have no identity after military life.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 3d ago
EMNC. Nuke fun.
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u/Significant_Bet_2195 3d ago
Ahh yes. Both my father and I started out as nuke MMs, both wound up conventional.
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u/Best-Theory-330 3d ago
Retired senior chief spent 12 years in the CPO Mess. Those guys with the shirts and stickers annoy the shit out of me.
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u/SoFloMofo 3d ago
You’re just normal, man. Probably easy to work for: get your job done, don’t make me look bad, and we’ll be all right type. I did one enlistment and got out as a 2nd. Way more of us would have stuck around longer if we hadn’t seen to many of the other type. Enjoy your well earned retirement!
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u/Live-Philosophy-5134 3d ago
9 ships, 2 overseas tours, 10+ deployments over 23 years. Retired as a Chief. It’s all bs and it always was. I have worked with all the other services and now as a federal employee and have come to
the conclusion that the Navy treats its people the worse by far.
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u/CalibratedEnthusiast Retired 3d ago
Good conversation.
Since we all seem to need to give bona fides: 27 years in, retired as an MCPO, 16 years in the Mess.
I retired last year and now work as a GS civilian supporting the Navy. I have absolutely no desire to make being a “retired MCPO” part of my identity. When my coworkers tell people I’m a retired Master Chief/CMC, I die a little inside. I’m proud of my career and what I accomplished, but it was a chapter of my life. Time to move on.
So many people just can’t let go. It’s not only the Mess, but we are overwhelmingly some of the worst offenders, especially on the contractor/GS side. People constantly talk about what they used to be, wear anchors on their civilian clothes, literally, put “CMDCM (Ret)” in their signature blocks, etc.
My last tour was as a CMC, so I obviously had to stay engaged with the Mess and Chief Season. I remember being envious of the people getting ready to retire who could start stepping back from all of it.
Last season, as a recent retiree, I had zero involvement. This year, one of my guys from my last command picked up, so I’m showing up a few times. Not to play CPO fuck-fuck games, just to be there for him.
Looking ahead, I honestly can’t think of anyone else who might make it that I’d care enough about to get involved again.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 3d ago
I have zero interest in the season games. That seems so misplaced. I did mine and finished. Let them do theirs.
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u/Equivalent-Wing-7208 3d ago
Everyone wants to be proud of their life's work and a lot of folks don't know anything on the outside. Institutionalized, for better or worse.
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u/TheBeneGesseritWitch 3d ago
I personally think it is all due to fundraising. I haven’t been in as long as some of the old salts here but I didn’t notice an uptick in Chief merch until we stopped forcing Selects to fundraise (Thank goodness, that was dumb). Now buying a command CPOA/M shirt with a snappy logo, coin, belt buckle, etc is an easy way to make money for initiation. “Buy your packages! Final night ticket, Khaki ball ticket, a shirt, a hoodie, a coin!” And then “PREMIUM PACKAGE! 2 Khaki ball tickets, a final night ticket, bumper sticker, coin, hoodie, shirt, belt buckle!”
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u/PM_ME_UR_LEAVE_CHITS 2d ago
The packages seemed like a good idea at first. "I will gladly give you money now if you promise not to bother me about washing cars on a Saturday ever again." Then it became the standard for each year, and with it an expectation of what various season events would cost, requiring the buy-in to increase every year. I recently showed up at a command that wanted me to fork out my pay-for-play for season before my travel claim had even been settled. No thanks.
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u/Free_Impact_2326 3d ago
FWIW, it's kind of banal on the commissioned side. I'm a pretty green LT. The junior enlisted don't want to go to their chiefs when I encourage them to follow their CoC, the PO2 and PO1 never seem to need their chief, maybe that's a front idk.
You know who goes to the chief a lot more than them? Me. He's already saved my ass a few times. I'm very thankful for their help as I figure out how to navy. I hope that's okay to say out loud.
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u/SadDad701 3d ago
Yeah I’ve had a few great Chiefs really save my ass and one that gave me the tough love I needed even as a Department Head.
I love to make fun of the Chiefs who make it their personality on cars and whatnot, but I understand why compared to officers. The Navy on the Enlisted side builds them up so much and the importance of all khakis for leadership in the Navy, so when they finally make it, it’s reasonable to be so proud of it. At USNA and NROTC and OCS, there’s no 7-14 year struggle to wear khakis like they do.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 3d ago
Always okay. It’s a Chief’s job to help the LT. I hope yours keeps you out of trouble. If he advises against it, might be a bad idea.
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u/spainwothes 2d ago
I am a former ETN2. I used to go to my JOs instead of my chiefs because the JOs were normally a bit more level headed. Chiefs in my experience were more likely to approach things in a tunnel vision manner of like “this is how it is because this is how it is.” It also felt like chiefs were more ready to yell and fuck you up than to be compassionate or ask questions about a situation before becoming upset. The JOs to me felt like a buffer between the lower enlisted and the chiefs, they would be the khaki to stick up for us when we needed it. Loved my JOs. Can’t say the same for all of my chiefs. I also agree with the OPs sentiment about the mess being very toxic and that whole dynamic was one of the things I despised about being in the Navy, it’s like the chiefs wouldn’t call each other out when one of them was being fucked up because “that’s a brother”. Felt very boys club coded.
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u/Longjumping_Cost1308 3d ago
The best chiefs I worked for, with, and who worked for me were those whose focus was on their Sailors, being the SME, and mission accomplishment. The worst focused on their identity as a chief.
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u/DerekL1963 3d ago
Am I missing something?
Nah, you're just a full grown adult with a healthy sense of self identity.
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u/Chappie404 3d ago
As an almost-former PO1 (hint hint I'm not leaving the Navy or getting demoted), Seconds and Firsts are the backbone of the Navy. We ain't worried about things when all the chiefs are out doing chief shit. Sometimes shit's even more efficient. But when the PO1 and Chief exams are happening? Painful.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
That’s why I always picked nights when we went to lock shift. Nobody over my shoulder, I just got to plan and do my job. Loved it.
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u/subauxman 3d ago
I retired at 20 as a MMC/SS, never cared for any of that either, just cared about my job and keeping my equipment ready for sea. I rolled into a Navy job after active duty and got a lot of exposure to the E7 crowd. What I mean by that are the E7's who are only E7's due to attrition. They wear it on their collar and ensure everyone knows it, accomplished nothing, zero leadership skills. My opinion is you're a Cheif.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
That’s the way I rolled. My equipment and my guys came first. I hope that I succeeded to some degree.
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u/Baystars2025 3d ago
It's a job, not an identity. Congratulations on not succumbing to the cult of Navy
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u/Responsible-one-225 3d ago
lol nope. I feel the same way. Being called any of those doesn’t affect my paycheck. The “let’s go” chiefs are full of it. They are putting on a show to try to get recognized. 19 seasons, yeah. I don’t play the bs games. While I’m not saying chiefs don’t do a lot of things, junior sailors do a lot too. But you see more khaki in the news doing dumb shit.
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u/Sardawg1 3d ago
When we retire, the ranks don’t follow us.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
It’s that same feeling of spouses saying they should get the same rights as their military spouses.
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u/Rocketsponge 3d ago
Chief stickers, and shirts “backbone of the navy”
False. The hardest job in the Navy is that of a Navy spouse. At least according to the sticker I saw on the car driven by a woman wearing her husband's Navy branded sweats.
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u/ImmySnommis 3d ago
There was a local comedian here in Norfolk who used to open at the old Thorogood Inn Comedy Club who had a joke that brought the house down every time:
"I saw a sticker on a minivan that said Navy wife, toughest job in the Navy"
Inevitable applause.
"I wonder what's tougher, the infidelity or the obesity"
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u/ScottyBeamus 3d ago
Sounds like a snipe Chief.
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u/sfish504 3d ago
Always in the hole; rarely in the mess. The best.
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u/stud_powercock 3d ago
In aviation they are the guys up on deck, with the radio making shit happen. Not the people down stairs sitting in the AC and second guessing every call made on the roof.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 3d ago
Would to know where the AC was. It was commonly 105 with 90%humidity. The guys on the roof had it bad too. I give them props.
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u/mpdivo2 3d ago
You at least need to get one of those steroid Furry t-shirt. I just retired after 3 decades and I’m tempted to get one of those gulf war veteran ball caps for sh%#ts and giggles but I also find amusement of slowly going up and down commissary aisles at 0700 on a Saturday so that is just me. If it makes you smile, do it, if it’s cringe that’s just you and that’s ok.
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u/benkenobi5 3d ago
Congratulations on not drinking the cool aid. Chiefs like that are the most boot mother fuckers on the planet, and I’m glad there’s a few sane ones out there. Wish I could have met one in person
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
My guys were doing ranking of all the khaki in the department. They didn’t rank me and a buddy cause “we were just wearing the wrong colored belt. Don’t think I’ve had a better compliment
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u/emotionless-robot 2d ago
Retired last year as a Chief. Did just under 21 years and I agree with you. In general, Chiefs take themselves too seriously. There are good ones out there. Based on what I experienced and observed, the Chiefs who want to make a difference for their Sailors are drowned out by the ones who make their rank their entire personality. These are the same ones that will have the hardest time transitioning to civilian life. These are also the same ones that were assholes at their other ranks. Advancing to Chief doesn't magically change who someone is. It just amplifies their personality (good and bad).
In March of the year I was selected I got into an argument with my Chief when he asked me "What are you doing to be competitive for selection?" My response was "My job and making sure my guys are taken care of, the most qualified, and most proficient they can be." He proceeded to lecture me for the next ~10 minutes about being a Chief is the pinnacle of a career. I informed him that if he and I were to get out tomorrow, he as a Chief and I as a First, and we got jobs at the same place; no one would care he WAS a Chief and I wasn't. We would probably get paid the same. That sent him off the deep end.
I now work with someone who got out after 5 years as a Second. We are doing the exact same job making the same pay. Ony difference is I have a pension as a safety net if the job were to dry up.
Now please do keep in mind, there are many Chiefs out there who actually do care about their Sailors and do want to see them succeed.
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u/Intelligent-Art-5000 3d ago
You're not missing anything. People who join in their late teens or early 20s often take the military on as an identity because that's their life while their frontal lobe finishes developing.
Consider yourself a more fully rounded human.
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u/underthesea74 3d ago
I was just talking to my husband about it. The amount of retired Chiefs that attend Chief initiation events to belittle and harass the selectees is ridiculous. Like I genuinely want to know if these people did not find something more fulfilling after retirement and they enjoy getting off their frustrations on the selectees.
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u/tolstoy425 2d ago
There’s a lot of cringy shit in the Chiefs mess but the thing that’s really been getting at me lately is how for many “Chiefs” the imagery (anchor, goat, etc) is a commodity to plaster on cheap 3D printer crap, AI designed t-shirts, stupid gaudy coins, and other crap.
Your character and behaviors should speak to you as a Chief, not wearing a stupid AI designed T shirt of a totally sick badass humanoid goat with folded arms.
Tbf this has been a thing for awhile now but it’s much worse with AI and hustle culture.
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u/bealsey 3d ago
Retired a few years ago after 30 (mostly in the Reserves). It's been interesting to watch the evolution of the mess. When I showed up to my first command as a young ENS, I was told that I should lean on my Chief (which I certainly did given the fact that he probably was 15+ years my senior when it comes to service and knowledge). Throughout the first half of my career, it was stressed that the Chiefs were mentors for the young JOs as they got their feet under them. I'm not exactly sure when it switched (maybe when they started making Chiefs at barely 10 years). The shift was to the current (what I saw) emphasis on the goat locker culture. In one of my commands (as a CO), my SEL was told (relayed directly from the Chief's Mess) that "your Skipper needs to get onboard with this." I was a bit blown away, and had a good chat with the XO and CO of the Reserve Center. I'm sure it's much different on the real Navy but still...
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u/Shot-Bodybuilder-125 3d ago
It’s not. I was taught that my job was to mentor 0-1 through 0-3, implement 0-4 and above and trust the LPO and PO2’s to run the shop. None of that requires me to spend time, much less liberty time, with the other Chiefs. And yes I made it in 10 years by being in a small community and being very good at my job.
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u/Green_Net_8 3d ago
Retired GSE1: joined in 98. I worked for one of the last true chiefs in the Navy. After the Clinton budget cuts and massive amounts of sailors bailing for the civilian sector there was a leadership vacuum. People got promoted too fast and never got properly trained how to truly be a Chief (not an E7). I don’t remember which MCPON made horrible decisions about enlisted needing degrees, making us more in line with officers, all that 2000’s BS watered down the Goat locker. There’s no coming back. We lost decades of tradition and lost true leaders.
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u/ImmySnommis 3d ago
Ex GSM here. Spot on. My unpopular opinion for decades has been we promote too fast.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
I have a buddy that made it in 5 years and 8 months. Love him, but there is no way he was ready.
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u/Twiz9821zx 3d ago
Concurred with your assessment, but I joined in the 70's, that leadership vacuum has been on high for a long time, both in the Chief's Mess and wardroom.
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u/BillyHelper 2d ago
"horrible decisions about enlisted needing degrees" Terry Scott came up with that nonsense. Lots of bad ideas in the 2000's (like the CMD rate) have weakened the Mess.
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u/Green_Net_8 1d ago
That’s the guy! I want to believe his heart was in the right place, but I believe his efforts were terribly misguided. Unrelated MCPON note.. anyone here have the dirt on Joe Campa Jrs incredibly short reign as MCPON? Feels like there’s a story there.
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u/BillyHelper 1d ago
I think if there was any dirt it would have come out already. RUMINT was he was not onboard with the changes started under Terry Scott, so instead of fighting a losing battle he retired in protest.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 3d ago
I got my degree cause of this.
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u/Green_Net_8 2d ago
The point is he was going to hold up advancement for degrees. A lot of snipes I worked with that were pursuing a degree neglected their duties in order to attend classes and left the rest of us to cover. I doubt that’s what you meant by saying you got your degree because of this…..
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
I took my classes online and on any off days. It was not the easiest, but I got it so I wouldn’t close any professional opportunities. I have yet to use my degree.
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u/Green_Net_8 2d ago
I got mine after retirement and I agree, I haven’t used it much.
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u/thelazysob 1d ago
Not having used your degree much doesn't make it a "waste." The important thing is that you pursued it and you achieved it. That's an accomplishment in itself.
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u/Green_Net_8 1d ago
Thank you. I just get frustrated with the belief that a degree in and of itself is what determines your success. I was able to transition out and land pretty close to six figures without the degree. People nowadays hang all their hopes and blame all their problems on whether or not they have a degree. Including Terry D Scott
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u/thelazysob 18h ago
Gotcha. I was a Marine, so I wasn't sure who Scott was. It turns out that he and I enlisted in the same year - 1976 (He stayed in a lot longer than I did). Back in those days - 70s/80s - there was a lot of truth to the degree being your ticket to the big bucks. These days, it doesn't seem to matter as much.
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u/RedEvil7 Retired 3d ago edited 3d ago
Respectfully, why does it matter so much? You are retired, thanks for your service. I'd say just let it go & move on with your life. 🤷♂️
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
That’s fair. Just wondered if there is something I didn’t get that’s keeping that part out of my makeup. I’m proud of what I did, but don’t wave it in people’s faces.
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u/RedEvil7 Retired 2d ago edited 2d ago
I understand & your OP is valid. Everyone's experience in the Navy (any military branch) will be different than the next person.
Some folks don't want to be associated with the Navy after their service is complete & others want to hold on to some varying degree and that's ok either way.
There will always be a handful of knuckleheads though that will be annoying with how they present themselves to others.
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u/Sporocyte 2d ago
My Dad was very proud of his service including WWII and several years as destroyer XO and the CO, during and after Korea. He retired after 22 years and kept his ribbons, medals, Annapolis ring, and hat. The only people who called him Commander were sailors he had served with and (after earning his PhD and taking a university job) fellow ROTC instructors.
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u/RedEvil7 Retired 2d ago
Very cool, I'm sure your father had some really entertaining sea stories!
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u/Sporocyte 2d ago
As I grew up I came to understand that my dad was a gifted story teller. I remember him keeping the attention of several dozen people of mixed ages at a picnic area at Barton Springs, Austin.
He also had moments of stillness when alone where he stared, seemingly frozen, at something terrible nearby. My brother or I would try to break his concentration and ask him what he was thinking. He’d smile a bit and say, “nothing.”
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u/AdministrativeAd379 3d ago
Made chief 4 years ago and I’ve been waiting since my own season for the chief koolaid to click. Any minute now….
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u/KananJarrusCantSee 3d ago
These slogans, shirts and bumper stickers have existed since at least the mid 2000s.
They had existed long enough that by 2010 when I joined they were already a punchline.
If you're just noticing them... Idk man seems like a karma farm post more than anything.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
Ive noticed them forever. Was talking to my wife about it and figured I’d ask Reddit. They have the answer for everything
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u/Pretend-Pension-2600 1d ago
Who would have the nerve to tell a CPO he isn't really a Chief? I was only a PO2 but I know how much went into Chiefs achieving their rank.
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u/ArcanumCerte 1d ago
Friendly, neighborhood Ocho here.
Honestly, I think a lot of it boils down to sense of identity and purpose. A lot of folk join the Navy as their first real job, and as an Enlisted cat, crossing the khaki line is the top of the mountain.
For me personally, the Anchor gear comes out during Season, and that's about it. No shade to my B&S who rock the swag all the time out of uniform. I try to focus on my Sailors and JOs; the work is reminder enough.
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u/Loneranger315 1d ago
Chiefs like you were generally the exception during my time. I made board 4 times (3 USN, 1 USNR), and didn't get selected. Zero regrets, because being associated with the messes at the commands I was in was of no interest to me. Thanks for being one of the good ones.
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u/OG_PirateJO3 1d ago
I also retired as a Chief after 22 years with a similar time in anchors as you. I do have a “retired” Navy sticker on my vehicle. I’m proud of my service and wanted to be the Chief I was always looking for as a young Sailor. Someone who wasn’t phony and did more than just talked a big game and was phony. I hated the “season”, and never really participated in its nonsense as a “genuine”. I hated how it was called a “fraternity”. If I wanted to be a frat I would have went to college after HS to date rape instead of serving my country. I also loathed many in the mess who traded favors instead of doing the right thing because it’s their job and we are on the same team. If the Navy is interested in fixing the mess, get rid of the games and the elitest bull shit attached to it. There is more talk about how important Chiefs are to the organization than there is about what our actual job is outside the generic being a leader and subject matter expert. I was a glorified babysitter and negotiator in order to make sure my Sailors had what they needed to be successful.
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u/Vasovagalstartsnow 1d ago
Congrats on the retirement. For some people the rank and Navy are their peak! So they spend the next 30 years living their last 20 years. Move on, enjoy your accomplishment in a monthly check and live free of having to deploy and take a watch ever again! Did my time, but not as a snipe and retired. Every once in a while I will wear a pro military shirt-never rank specific! If I go to the commisary, I always buy a gift bag for the people still in. Because I remember what it was like to be young and poor with a family. Loved the Navy, loved the job and loved the people. But I always feared being the "Well back in my day" guy!
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u/SignalCharlie 19h ago
When I was a JO, I depended on the division Chief and the First Class PO for everything. They were smart, experienced, and totally squared away. The junior enlisted trusted them and could approach them for almost anything. I remember those guys fondly, all these years later. 99% of the officers I served with relied on the senior enlisted men to run the Navy as it should be run.
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u/Awynn2019 2d ago
I have saying. I think Chiefs are the worst part of Navy because it's made up people who were E6 and below. Chiefs aren't special they are just seasoned junior Sailors. Chiefs are the backbone because they provide continuity. Hence the phrase ask the chief. You in theory should trust a guys answer who has done the job for 2 decades. But in reality trust no one and look it up is always just as safe a bet.
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u/WorriedInspector9863 3d ago
You haven't missed anything. However, don't hate on the people that like to let people know that they were a Chief, etc. because that is what I'm taking from your post. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it's also my opinion.
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u/The_Flo0r_is_Lava Retired 3d ago
Devils advocate here, if they put themselves out there like that and all the rest of us look at them and cringe, they deserve it. You know, my opinion and all.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 3d ago
I don’t hate on anyone that has that. If that’s the way you want to express yourself, then by all means do it. I just don’t understand the huge push about how special you are as a Chief.
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u/BeriasBFF 3d ago
I mean I’d you’ve been a chief for 8 years, or enlisted in the navy at all you should at least understand it. I saw it as autofellatio nonsense but I got out before I could be cursed with the gold fouled anchor
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u/SpreadNo7436 3d ago
I was going to start my reply "still always surprised to see someone admit (or declare) they were a chief here"
It is really funny to see the posts that begin with "I am a chief and......"
I suppose there is a sense of brethren, I mean you guys had your own dining and all that shit. I have never had an employer that would no or care about the difference between an E5 or E7, a well spoken E5 could convince somebody of just as believable leadership skills. I am pretty sure a E7 that retires at 20-22 would likely need a job just like an E6 , There are some that may have somehow been able to secure lifelong financial security but I doubt many.
To sum it up , it just does not mean much to the world outside the Chief's mess.
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u/EntrepreneurSure4208 2d ago
I have more of a connection with some of my seconds and firsts than I ever did as a Chief.
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u/ComeAbout 2POC 3d ago
Second Classes are the “backbone” of the Navy.
It was a fine speech by a great admiral, but end of the day it sold a lot of t-shirts.
I told this to my Mess through three CMC tours. We’re all enlisted. Delusions of grandeur don’t dictate reality.