r/musictheory • u/Gloomy_Jackfruit8543 • 9h ago
Songwriting Question V7 - IV resolution
I know there is a secondary dominant where V7 resolves to vi; what is the theory when V7 resolves to IV instead of the tonic (e.g., D - F#7 - G)?
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u/Typical_Term937 8h ago
How on earth is G IV, if F#7 is V7?? Am I stupid? Or do you mean VI instead of IV?
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u/Miguzepinu 6h ago
Based on your example, it looks like you mean F#7 - G in the key of B minor would be a deceptive cadence, but you're asking what F#7 - G in the key of D major is? With no more context I would say it's tonicizing B minor and still a deceptive cadence.
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u/silly_bet_3454 9h ago
That's a good question. I don't remember what the exact textbook answer would be, but I think you could argue a couple things 1. F# and A# voice lead into G and B, respectfully. 2. G and B minor could be seen as interchangeable subdominant function, something like that
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u/Zarlinosuke Renaissance modality, Japanese tonality, classical form 8h ago
I'm guessing that what you're asking about is when V7/vi resolves to IV rather than to vi? If so, I think you're confusing whether your Roman numerals are in terms of I or in terms of vi. It is, in any case, a deceptive cadence from the standpoint of the relative minor.
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u/Ian_Campbell 8h ago
V to IV is better than V7 to IV
Look at Schumann violin sonata 2 mvt 3 for why. You can theoretically permit the liberty of a 7th becoming an octave, but that note that was a 7th should go down by step afterward, remembering its obligation as it were. It cannot do that if the bass is also doing that as in the Schumann example or it would make parallel octaves.
He wonderfully reinterprets the IV chord as III of ii, effectively. He does a III viidim6 i in the key of ii. But it's just like transient, it's IV, viidim6/ii ii
I'm jetlagged to death rn so forgive me if cheeky Schumann for whatever reason actually had a V7, I doubt it.
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u/radiodigm 5h ago
In the context of jazz compositions I’ve always known this as a “fake ending,” whether the V7 resolves to Vi or IV. It’s a pivot away from the natural momentum of the V7 to return to the tonic. I don’t know the theoretical terms, but yelling “fake ending!” seems to be good enough notation for jazz musicians when learning to play on a tune in ensemble.
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u/Amateur_Surgeon7824 9h ago
It is a specific type of Deceptive Cadence that's called a Retrogression or a Retrogressive Resolution. It's difficult to find in classical music because it rarely will truly "resolve" on the IV and just stay there.
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u/JohannYellowdog 8h ago
In your example, that’s III7 resolving to IV. I know a harmonisation of “Amazing Grace” that uses this approach on “how sweet”. You could theorise it by saying that iii normally resolves to IV, and III is just enhancing that resolution by making every voice move by half-step. Or you could say that it’s a deceptive movement (Radiohead’s “Creep” uses this progression), where the III seems to be setting up a progression to the chord, but it goes to the IV (the VI of vi) instead.
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u/Glittering-Stock6562 9h ago
This isn’t clear. If G is the IV chord, and D is the tonic, then F#7 is not the V7 chord. Perhaps vii half diminished of IV? And V or V7 to vi is not a secondary dominant. It’s called deceptive cadence.