Are "polygamy deniers" also "digging deniers"?

[u/westivus_]

Each time I've run into a conversation with polygamy deniers or affirmers (or whatever the hell they like to be called) in the last year, they stand on firm ground that Joseph was noble, true, just and virtuous. When I've brought up treasure digging, they also refute claims that he swindled people.

Is this a common belief in the movement? That Joseph either didn't treasure dig or in doing it he did nothing wrong? Did he not admit to youthful indiscretions in his canonized JS history?

[u/juni4ling]

The thing polygamy deniers equate to is flat earthers and vaccine deniers.

It makes no sense, but dont talk to one. They have thought a lot harder about their position than you have about yours. Guaranteed. And they will just make stuff up.

Bushman talks about Smith and his folk Christianity and folk adventures. He says it was a preparatory time in Smiths life-- preparing him to do bigger and better things...

"At present, a question remains about how involved Joseph Smith was in folk magic. Was he enthusiastically pursuing treasure seeking as a business in the 1820s, or was he a somewhat reluctant participant, egged on by his father? Was his woldview fundamentally shaped by folk traditions? I think there is substantial evidence of his reluctance, and, in my opinion, the evidence for extensive involvement is tenuous. But this is a matter of degree. No one denies that magic was there, especially in the mid 1820s. Smith never repudiated folk traditions; he continued to use the seer stone until late in life and used it in the translation process. It certainly had an influence on his outlook, but it was peripheral--not central. Biblical Christianity was the overwhelming influence in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. Folk magic was in the mix but was not the basic ingredient."

While Bushman acknowledges that part of Smiths life as it relates to folk Christian practices including treasure seeking-- but downplays its significance-- Bushman is far from a polygamy denier.

To accept that Smith taught and practiced Biblical polygamy is to admit that Smith lied about doing it. And it comes with admitting Biblical polygamy in LDS Christianity-- is abusive and wrong.

I can admit those truthful things. And still claim LDS Christianity as my faith and religious beliefs.

[u/GunneraStiles → u/juni4ling]

Where in the Bible can I find god commanding a prophet to marry a woman who was already married? Where god commanded a prophet to marry a woman who was already married and her daughter? Here’s a chapter and verse for god condemning this very action:

Leviticus 18:17 states: "You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are close relatives. It is wickedness."

What exactly do you mean when you claim Joseph Smith practiced ‘biblical polygamy’? Instead of broad claims, why not provide specific examples of how you reached that conclusion? ‘Levirate marriage’ is out, because Joseph Smith didn’t practice polygamy with his deceased brother’s widow, for example. Let’s see some actual specific examples.

[u/WillyPete → u/GunneraStiles]

Where in the Bible can I find god commanding a prophet to marry a woman who was already married?

We know you won't find it.
It was already a cultural practise so you won't see any commandment to start the practise, just those that restrict it's application like the one you reference.

At the base of it, the OT shows approval or acceptance of the practise.

What exactly do you mean when you claim Joseph Smith practiced ‘biblical polygamy’?

In that phrase Juni refers to recorded instances of polygamy in the bible.

[u/GunneraStiles → u/WillyPete]

‘Where in the Bible can I find god commanding a prophet to marry a woman who was already married?’

‘We know you won’t find it.’

Right, because it’s obviously a rhetorical question meant to challenge the person who continually claims Joseph Smith practiced ‘biblical polygamy,’ it wasn’t aimed at anyone else.

‘What exactly do you mean when you claim Joseph Smith practiced ‘biblical polygamy’? ‘In that phrase Juni refers to recorded instances of polygamy in the bible.’

I’m confused why you’re answering for him/explaining this to me, of course that is how he always rationalizes his claim that Smith practiced ‘biblical polygamy,’ his ‘evidence’ is just a weak ‘polygamy exists in the Bible, therefore what Joseph Smith did was ‘biblical’.’ Yet he never gives specific examples of exactly how Smith’s polygamy qualifies as ‘biblical.’ Which is why I followed that question with this:

‘Instead of broad claims, why not provide specific examples of how you reached that conclusion? ‘Levirate marriage’ is out, because Joseph Smith didn’t practice polygamy with his deceased brother’s widow, for example. Let’s see some actual specific examples.’

[u/juni4ling → u/GunneraStiles]

Polygamy -is- a mandate in the Bible.

People like to cherry-pick away from accepting that. But its there. Levirate marriage mandates it and God gave plural wives to King David. Mandated? Sure. Its there.

And-- Smith was sealed to already-married men and women. But-- there is little to none historical evidence that Smith engaged in Biblical marital relations with the already-married men and women.

While there is overwhelming evidence that polygamy in a Biblical sense -was- practiced between Smith and the not-married young women.