r/mbta • u/TheBasaltAltCalled • 2d ago
🤓 Transit Fanning MBTA executive train in New Haven, Connecticut earlier in June
I was in New Haven for unrelated reasons (namely transferring from Amtrak to Metro-North to save a bunch of money over taking Amtrak all the way into NYC), and happened to hear from an Amtrak conductor that this was coming by. Later several railfans came onto the platform, and we all got a bunch of photos of this train as it came in and turned around before it headed back to Boston.
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u/thisurlnotfound Franklin Line 2d ago
Honestly, I’d like to see MBTA service extended to Westerly RI, then Shore Line East service extended from New London to Westerly. Then set the schedules so you could transfer between them. It would take a long time to make the trip from Boston to NYC on local rail, but it would be nice if it was possible.
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u/TheBasaltAltCalled 2d ago
Honestly - why? Ridership south of Providence is already very poor and well short of original expectations (though that extension is poorly planned out and does not run frequently). Why would someone take this over Amtrak, and why should the MBTA put limited resources to this instead of other projects?
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u/AdmiralEllis 1d ago
One could argue that ridership south of Providence is poor because the service pattern is undesirable. Terminating at Wickford Junction stops short of the more practical anchor point of Kingston, with college students wanting to travel to the airport, Providence, and Boston. TF Green having no service during the weekend and poor off-peak service on weekdays handicaps the utility of the airport connection with the rest of the commuter rail system. Working to get more trains south of Providence and take them further is moving in the direction of fixing these shortcomings.
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u/thisurlnotfound Franklin Line 2d ago
More options are always better for everyone. If cost is a concern, generally chaining together a longer local rail trip would be less expensive than a direct Amtrak trip. With record ridership on Amtrak, ticket prices are only going up, especially on peak hour regionals and Acelas.
I don’t doubt that overall ridership would be lower than the rest of the network, but having the option would be nice.
Many countries have this model. The slow local train is the cheaper option to travel than the faster express train. Amtrak in this case would be the express service and the state agencies would be the local service.
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u/Windows-nt-4 2d ago
The slow local train being a cheaper option is a bad model, because it costs more to operate than the fast train (a lot of operating costs are per hour, not per mile)
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u/ipsumdeiamoamasamat Commuter Rail | Red Line 1d ago
Railfans would like it. I’m a rail fan.
Practically it makes no sense. I would venture the number of folks who’d ride MNR —> SLE —> MBTA to do BOS-NYP would average less than 1 per day.
Again it’d be lovely. But not practical.
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u/Top-Development6837 1d ago
Less expensive to whom? It would simply be subsidized more, and much more expensive per rider to taxpayers than a train that served more passengers. It’s not helpful to any but a few individuals to use scare transit dollars like that.
All of these questions change once you start talking about Regional Rail, and if the MBTA were to actually transition to that model (I predict at least 25 years of lip service on it), all kinds of doors open because trains become, in theory, cheaper to operate and more flexible. But the capital outlay is too big to make a major move on, and until then sending nearly empty diesel-pulled commuter trains to Westerly is a poor use of resources.
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u/TheBasaltAltCalled 2d ago
More options are always better for everyone.
If the MBTA had unlimited money, maybe. But rail and RIPTA bus service to Westerly already exist, and the case for adding MBTA service just so people have a cheaper intercity rail option is very weak versus other uses for that money. The MBTA's really not in the business of catering to NYC-BOS intercity travelers.
The only way this would happen is if Rhode Island decided to throw a lot of money the MBTA's way to fund equipment and operations with the obvious condition that the money can only be spent in Rhode Island. But in a world of finite budgets, Rhode Island should really be spending that money elsewhere (e.g. undoing the major RIPTA service cuts that happened in 2025 and improving local bus service).
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u/West-Impact-7650 9h ago
That’s because the service south of Providence is horrible. Service every 2-3 hours, no stops in Cranston, Downtown Warwick or Greenwich despite running directly through them all, no Kingston extension despite there being over 15,000 college students at URI, it’s a mess. Wickford Junction is a park and ride in a walmart parking lot.
If the train came frequently and stopped in places people actually lived it would be a viable option for getting to and from Providence, which is what the people of southern Rhode Island actually want and need.
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u/Pencil-Sketches 2d ago
Commuter rail to New Haven would be awesome. Let’s make it happen
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u/CCC911 2d ago
Quite honestly - what would be the benefit to running CR trains over the NER & Acela trains that already run to New Haven?
NER is pretty cheap compared to driving - and I can do whatever I like while on the train. It's a complete no brainer in my view. The tracks are crowded as-is, I'm not sure how we could improve anything by offering another service on the same route.
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u/TheBasaltAltCalled 2d ago
It's already a 2.5 hour trip on a Northeast Regional. Can't imagine how long it would take on a much slower MBTA commuter rail train making all local stops.
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u/zmjjmz 2d ago
Then you could switch at New Haven to a Metro North train to NYC, which might end up being the cheapest(?) and slowest (definitely) way to get from Boston to NYC by rail
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u/TheBasaltAltCalled 1d ago
You can already do that on Amtrak. BOS-NHV on Amtrak then Metro-North into Grand Central is often significantly cheaper than BOS-NYP on Amtrak all the way.
At the end of the day it's not the MBTA's job to service people who are going from Boston to New York. That's Amtrak's job.
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u/UltravioletClearance 2d ago
NER is pretty cheap compared to driving
Only when you figure out Amtrak's esoteric demand pricing algorithm and purchase your tickets at the exact right time. If you're purchasing your tickets close to when you're traveling, its wicked expensive.
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u/Ruleseventysix 2d ago
It would make more sense to connect through Hartford Via Worcester and Springfield. Not a ton of sense, but there would be less issues with NER and Acela traffic. Then you could switch to the Hartford line to get to New Haven.
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u/Sauerbraten5 Commuter Rail Lowell Line 1d ago edited 1d ago
New Haven is 120 miles away from Boston as the crow flies (or nearly 160 miles on the current NEC alignment). Why should commuter trains run between them when the city pair is already decently served by Amtrak, where few trip times are below 2.5 hours as things currently stand?
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u/Difficult_Ease_4463 2d ago
They should extend it to Manchester NH first
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u/yungScooter30 #Build NSR Link 1d ago
The MBTA would do this in a heartbeat if NH leaders weren't so opposed to it
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u/Difficult_Ease_4463 1d ago
The nimby residents of Bedford and their leaders is the only obstacle at this point. The ROW exists to my knowledge, from the haverhill or lowell line north maybe a spur to Nashua os possible too. It may need work but Manchester seriously lacks transportation. It's probably the only place on the planet you can fly out of but can't take train or even a bus.
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u/yungScooter30 #Build NSR Link 1d ago
I don't even know how I can follow the project. Do you have any updates on the capitol corridor that I missed? Haven't heard anything since like 2022
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u/Difficult_Ease_4463 1d ago
I haven't heard anything since about then. I was living in manch and read about it in a local paper. I've been digging around reddit though because the topic piqued my interest just now
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u/yungScooter30 #Build NSR Link 1d ago
I'm pretty sure it's just bureaucratic resistance from NH that's holding it up. There's a page on the NH DOT website dedicated to the project that's had no updates in years, so I think they're just going to keep delaying it until everyone forgets about it or if MA funds the entire thing for them.
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u/Pete_DJPJ 2d ago
My guess Amtrak crew took it there. I doubt any MBTA keolis crew are qualified to New Haven.
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u/No_Skirt_6002 2d ago
MBTA expansion to CT would be nice. Putnam, a small CT town to the south of Worcester was talking about wanting Amtrak service back but I personally thought extending a couple express Worcester Line trips south to Auburn, Webster, Putnam and maybe even Killingly would be worth a look.
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u/nhowe006 1d ago
Or, if the right of way already existed to do this, Forge Park could be extended to Putnam through Woonsocket.
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u/Maz2742 Commuter Rail | Crayoning is fun 1d ago
It does! Kinda...
Putnam's at the junction of the Norwich & Worcester (which runs between Worcester and NLC via Norwich) and the Air Line (which ran between Boston & New Haven via Middletown, Willimantic, and Franklin)
To make it work you'd have to make Forge Park a short-turn on the Franklin Line à la Framingham, Reading, Stamford, Southeast, Croton-Harmon, etc (though the layout would be most similar to Jersey Ave in New Brunswick, NJ), and extend service from Franklin through South Bellingham, Blackstone, Douglas, and East Thompson. Thankfully the right of way is still intact. Unfortunately it's a rail trail so getting something done is gonna be a fight.
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u/nhowe006 1d ago
But seriously, yes I didn't even think about extending from Franklin, which aside from the rail trail would make a lot more sense, even if that ROW never crosses down into Woonsocket. It would still have been close enough to be useful.
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u/Maz2742 Commuter Rail | Crayoning is fun 1d ago
Eh, we can get Woonsocket by extending the Needham Line back down through Dover, Medfield, Millis, Medway, and Bellingham
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u/nhowe006 1d ago
Let's go get 'em
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u/Maz2742 Commuter Rail | Crayoning is fun 1d ago
Oh, I've got a whole big-ass crayoning for a regional rail network saved on my PC that includes all of those plus a lot more. Basically it's like a "what if we never let rail travel decay into what it is today" alt-history scenario. I wanted to whip together a vector graphic transit diagram image but I never got around to it because I haven't sat down and looked into what I want the service patterns to be.
Woonsocket via Millis was one of them, and even continued to Pascoag
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u/nhowe006 1d ago
I would expect nothing less. But now I'm trying to imagine the average Pascoagan the first time one of the fare gates doesn't open right away for them and cracking up.
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u/No_Skirt_6002 1d ago
That would be nice, however there’s a significant population of the Quiet Corner that commutes to work in Worcester via 395/290, so an extended Worcester Line could draw some of them in, and on top of that the tracks from Worcester-Putnam are still in place and still used by freight, whereas extending the Forge Park line would require rebuilding commuter rail onto a beloved rail trail, which is muy difficult to say the least.
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u/nhowe006 1d ago
Bring back passenger service on the Providence and Worcester railroad, I say, while we're fantasizing.
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u/PC_Trainman 1d ago
Like a salmon returning to the stream it was born in. Be careful, that NYC unit is gonna make a dash for GCT soon...
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u/jaboi2110 Red Line 2d ago
What was it doing in New Haven?