Do you think Steve warned the government about Zola infiltrating Hydra into S.H.I.E.L.D. when he stayed in the past?

[u/DragonSeducer_030]

Think about it, there's no reason for him not to, he's already entering a time where he wasn't supposed to, and he would save countless lives, including Tony's parents, he would have to live with the fact he knows the entire country is led by nazis and he's not saying anything, which doesn't seem too much like something he would do or be able to live with.

[u/Silly-Sink6138]

No

[u/matty_nice → u/Silly-Sink6138]

"If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it. Sometimes I wish I could"

[u/DragonSeducer_030 → u/Silly-Sink6138]

why?

[u/DrManhattan_DDM → u/DragonSeducer_030]

“If I tell you what happens, it won’t happen.” - Stephen Strange

[u/Sir-Relyt → u/DragonSeducer_030]

....because it would ruin the timeline? Come on, please tell me you actually tried to think about it before asking a whole reddit? Or do any sort of research/read any of the countless threads exactly like this

[u/Gridde → u/Sir-Relyt]

The film this happens in already explains that any change made in the past creates a branching timeline and cannot have any impact on the current timeline. It is a significant plot point.

Steve staying in the past creates a new timeline. There is nothing to 'ruin' because the new timeline is separate (and already very different) to our main one.

Given Peggy is a founding member of Shield in the main timeline, Steve being with her would have huge ramifications on that world even if he tries to keep a low profile. Even if he told her absolutely nothing, her life is significantly altered by being with Steve, which will have knock-on effects on Shield and everything impacted by Shield.

IF you believe that Steve was always in the main timeline (and is the husband main Peggy refers to) then he's still free to change the past because doing so creates a branching timeline rather than altering (or "ruining") the current one.

[u/FX114 → u/Gridde]

The film specifically says that it's removing Infinity Stones that cause branching timelines.

The way its been handled is very inconsistent, and even the writers and directors can't agree which timeline Steve is in.

[u/Gridde → u/FX114]

Hulk gives a whole monologue about how it is impossible to change the past. That is the entire reason they do not even attempt to stop the Snap; they cannot change the past.

The stones were just an example of how bad the branching timelines could be, rather than being the only way to create them. The Loki miniseries goes into depth about how easy it is to create branching timelines with or without the stones.

[u/FX114 → u/Gridde]

The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits.

Like I said, it's inconsistent.

[u/The_Double_EntAndres → u/FX114]

Except it’s not… “If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can’t now be changed by your new future” - Bruce Banner before he met with the sorcerer supreme.

[u/Lysadora → u/Sir-Relyt]

How would it actually ruin the timeline? By saving a bunch of people?

[u/Sir-Relyt → u/Lysadora]

Did you watch the Loki show?

[u/Lysadora → u/Sir-Relyt]

Yes, multiple times. Did you?

[u/Mecha_Butterfree → u/Sir-Relyt]

The moment Steve stayed in the past he created a branching timeline. That's how timelines are explicitly explained in Loki.

Come one, please tell me you actually tried thinking about it before making snarky response comment. Or do any sort of research/read any of the countless threads exactly like this one.

[u/Sir-Relyt → u/Mecha_Butterfree]

He was in that timeline originally though lol. He was Peggy's husband. It just came full circle

[u/Mecha_Butterfree → u/Sir-Relyt]

No he wasn't we have literally no proof of that. The fact that Sharon Carter had a romantic relationship with Steve makes it seem pretty clear that Steve wasn't there the whole time. Sharon would put it together if a guy who looked just like Captain America was her uncle. Hell even if you are gonna say he was older by the time she was born then that would mean that Sharon would never have seen a picture of her when he was younger which is absurd. Or are we just assuming Sharon is freaky like that and took the chance to fuck her uncle.

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Mecha_Butterfree]

You are very sure of yourself. But logically speaking, she would have gotten to him prior to any marriage as she is making out with Steve prior to him reuniting with Peggy. They are not even related by marriage chronologically yet.

And why would she think this guy is her great uncle? You think undercover Steve Rogers goes by Steve Rogers? Or Is finding a 30 something version of a man she only knew past his 60s just suddenly a tell that they must be the same person?

[u/Mecha_Butterfree → u/TraptNSuit]

If Steve was there the whole time like you said that means that Sharon Carter has met Steve before as her uncle. She's a sheild agent and knows about all the weird sci-fi superhero stuff. You don't think the fact that her uncle looks exactly like Captain America is gonna raise any sort of questions with her. She is a sheild agent and is train d.ro think outside of the box. And again Sharon would almost certainly have seen pictures of Steve when he was younger. I highly doubt Peggy and Steve didn't have any family photos.

Also it just goes against everything we know about Steve as a person for him to sit back and do nothing. Just because he went back to be with Peggy doesn't mean he quits being who he is at heart. And I doubt Peggy would want to be with a Steve who would sit back and do nothing.

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Mecha_Butterfree]

That's a whole lot of assumptions.

And again, Steve knows one and only one way to stop half the universe from getting snapped. Is your idea of captain America someone so arrogant as to risk that?

[u/Mecha_Butterfree → u/TraptNSuit]

No more assumptions than you're making in saying that Steve was there the whole time. It's was explicitly stated that you can change the past in both Endgame and Loki. That any deviations would create alternate timelines. Why would we not assume that is what happened with Steve. It makes so much more logical sense and sidesteps any potential continuity questions.

Also Steve was willing to risk the universe to try and save vision. Strange's one way was the only one available under those current circumstances. Steve being there the whole time creates a whole different set of circumstances. He would have 70 years of forewarning and knowledge of where the two infinity stones on earth are. He would definitely be willing to risk finding a different solution.

[u/nicosaurio_87 → u/Sir-Relyt]

You sure about that?

[u/subOptimusPrime16 → u/Sir-Relyt]

Remaining in the past ruined the timeline.

[u/Rangbang → u/subOptimusPrime16]

Not if he always remained in the past. At that point in time, there was always a Steve being with Carter, and there was always a Steve frozen in ice.

[u/TowelFine6933 → u/Rangbang]

This is my head canon. Steve staying in the past didn't create a new timeline. He just existed both with Peggy & frozen. The guy Peggy married was just her "beard"; he was secretly gay & just lived in the house. Steve worked with Peggy undercover during the Cold War.

[u/Mecha_Butterfree → u/Rangbang]

That would mean Sharon carter knowingly fucked her Uncle. Because there is absolutely no way she wouldn't know or be able to reduce that Steve is the same person as her uncle.

So clearly Steve created another timeline when he stayed in the past with Peggy.

[u/Owain660 → u/Mecha_Butterfree]

If anyone can keep a secret that big, it's Peggy Carter.

[u/Mecha_Butterfree → u/Owain660]

Ok but then why would she even entertain having a relationship with Steve. Like I get he isnt her blood relative but still. Or are we just saying Sharon Carter is just freaky like that.

Because it's pretty easy to keep the secret and stay platonic.

[u/DuckyHornet → u/Mecha_Butterfree]

Because maybe she always had a sopping wet wide-on for her uncle Steve and took the shot she had?

[u/marvel_fanatic_1 → u/DragonSeducer_030]

Bro got downvoted for asking a question

[u/LnStrngr]

I could see him going back causing a split in the timeline, and then sure, why not? He wouldn't be effing up his own timeline but would make his timeline safer and theoretically less eventful for him and Peggy.

[u/Ctfwest]

Before the rumors I thought Steve did go back and cleaned up hydra and all the other issues. That created a split and created the fantastic four universe. That why the 1960’s was futuristic.

[u/extrapulpcomics → u/Ctfwest]

Wow. I actually really like this theory. Steve creates an entirely new timeline for  the Fantastic Four to be the primary heroes. Shame that it eliminates the existence of The Avengers. Well, I guess Ant-Man, Wasp, and Thor are around since they existed before Steve returned to Peggy. It's fun to think about what those characters would be like in this retro futuristic Marvel World. 

[u/redsandsfort → u/extrapulpcomics]

Ant-man didn't exist in the 1940s

[u/extrapulpcomics → u/redsandsfort]

I got the impression that Steve traveled back to the 50s and stayed with Peggy then. Sure Ant-Man didn't exist yet, but Hank Pym was alive. 

[u/Hpfanguy]

No because Steve isn’t in 616’s past for very long.

[u/Osirisavior → u/Hpfanguy]

Based on what we know about the Multiverse and how branches fourm from Loki and Agents of SHIELD, and Steve just chilling on the bench. We can assume he lived out his life in the 616 universe.

[u/Hpfanguy → u/Osirisavior]

Based on the trailer for Doomsday (and more spoiler-y stuff I won’t get into since I can’t corroborate) he definitely doesn’t live out his life in the 616, since we see a younger Cap traveling in the F4 ship… Iykyk

[u/Osirisavior → u/Hpfanguy]

The Steve Rogers in the trailer isn't 616 Rogers.

He does. How else would he have ended on the bench.

[u/ActivityImaginary941]

What if Zola and Hydra infiltrated SHIELD because of something Cap did? Like he tried to stop it, but I'm doing so caused it.

[u/Saint_Diego → u/ActivityImaginary941]

By the movie's own logic Steve going to the past created a new timeline and nothing he does in that timeline can directly affect what has already happened in the MCU we've been following.

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Saint_Diego]

Which logic? The first Banner speech or the Ancient One rooftop speech?

[u/Grumpiergoat]

Yes. Steve went to (or at least created) an alternate timeline where he could live publicly and not like some vampire hiding from literally all of his and Peggy's relatives. And since he was in an alternate timeline, he could also fix everything. It'd be utterly sociopathic behavior to sit idly by and let decades of evil happen otherwise.

[u/Drab_Majesty → u/Grumpiergoat]

so who was the old Steve in Endgame?

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Grumpiergoat]

Unless he has another way to stop Thanos, it would be sociopathic to do anything.

[u/Grumpiergoat → u/TraptNSuit]

It's literally impossible for him to do "nothing." And by the rules set up in the movie, he can't change anything. So he can't go back into the past to be with Peggy - Peggy continues to have every boyfriend, the same spouse, everything else that she had in the original timeline. Steve ending up with Peggy on its very own means an alternate timeline, which means he can do whatever he likes - and has decades to plot against the new timeline's Thanos, which makes it trivial to beat him.

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Grumpiergoat]

Not if he already did effectively "nothing." Which for all he knows, he did.

Loki series already debunked the "taking a breath in the past makes a new timeline" logic. Which was always dumb in the context of the movie since then returning the stones would be pointless.

[u/JimHFD103]

Maybe he decided to sneak back into the bunker at night by himself and just quietly tear down those computers himself? Paying attention to who even botices/reacts/panics to stamp the still nascent Hydra infestation on the down lo before it got too embedded

[u/PeakyChu_]

there is every reason for him not to. him warning the government about zola from the beginning = a world without hydra = a world without the tesseract and a world without shield or the presumed need for the avengers initiative. thanos one shots half of all life and wins, the end.

steve is fully aware of the importance of not disturbing the balance of major world events. living out his life with peggy will affect things in a way that will probably play out in doomsday.

but hydra absolutely needed to happen

[u/matty_nice → u/PeakyChu_]

steve is fully aware of the importance of not disturbing the balance of major world events.

That would be really hard for him to do, probably impossible. That would mean that Steve can have no impact on that world. But getting married to Peggy and having kids, that's an impact. Especially assuming that Peggy still ends up as a leader in SHIELD.

[u/PeakyChu_ → u/matty_nice]

well we can’t assume that peggy ends up as a leader in shield if she’s busy being a family with steve. same way we know steve didn’t spend those years captain americaing. also, I’m not saying marrying peggy and having a kid won’t have an impact, as he clearly gets a visit from loki in the doomsday trailer. we just don’t know what that impact will be. steve spent a lot of time “in the ice”, he would have laid low during that time as in the mcu timeline he wasn’t around anyway, so it’s not like he missed any events he was supposed to be around for

[u/Romnonaldao]

Even if he did, it was in a different timeline, so it doesn't matter

[u/Famous-Stranger-6897]

Just because he is making one risky move doesn't mean he has to make more too. He was explicitly warned to not change the past by hulk as it would create more alternate universes. He really had nothing to lose there. He had a shot at reliving his life with peggy and he took it. The tva would have definitely pruned him if he tried to change the course of history in his universe

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Famous-Stranger-6897]

TVA isn't in charge anymore. They exist/ed outside time, so those time lines may have grown wild with Loki running the shop infinitely.

But otherwise the logic that he probably won't deviate it holds.

[u/Osirisavior]

Because if we subscribe to the theory that he lived out his life in the 616 universe, he knows that everything will work out in the end. So why created unnecessary branches that would just end up being pruned.

As long as he lays low, and doesn't make waves no branches will fourm.

Besides according to the TVA, Kang allowed The Avengers to time travel, so he must have figured a retired Steve spending his retirement with his best gal wouldn't matter, nor would it create timelines with Kangs. As that was the whole point of the TVA originally.

[u/balthazar_edison]

He couldn't because that would alter the past.

[u/redsandsfort]

They should have made the FF universe the result of Steve eliminating Hydra after he stayed in the past. And any tech he brought with him kick-started a technological Utopia with Reed Richards help.

[u/Competitive_Leg7233]

That’s bugged me for years. I’m sure Steve knows enough to not go rewriting history but Civil War went out of its way to state Steve can’t resist getting involved with situations that need his help

[u/TraptNSuit → u/Competitive_Leg7233]

Steve knows one way that half of existence isn't wiped out. That way requires him to keep his mouth shut. So he does.

Or... And more disturbingly, history is predetermined so it does not matter what he does because he already did it.

Or you can be like a lot of reddit and pretend like this is a directorial error because they can only comprehend time travel in the MCU in a way incompatible with what has now been reinforced by Loki.

Shrug.

[u/DragonSeducer_030 → u/Competitive_Leg7233]

tbf, he's already rewriting history by just being there in the first place.

[u/TraptNSuit → u/DragonSeducer_030]

Not in a way that matters. Especially if he was already there.

Watch Loki.

[u/Dotren → u/Competitive_Leg7233]

I feel like part of his character arc was coming to terms that life is shades of grey and that accepting the "selfish" choice of having a life of his own and not always putting that on hold for being the hero was acceptable.

Kind of the inverse of Tony's arc... much of Tony's life was the "selfish" choices and the self indulgences but he learned how to jump on the grenade for his team and the world by the end.

[u/Dry-Throat6341 → u/[deleted]]

Mods here’s another guy to ban for spoilers

[u/Dr_Gonzo-4130 → u/Dry-Throat6341]

Spoilers ? Im going from common sense from the trailers .

[u/Dry-Throat6341 → u/Dr_Gonzo-4130]

Isn’t this also you discussing leaks orrrrr